Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[zferolie]

If anything i'm fascinated by how much drama you guys are able to generate over fake leaks and stupid theories. At this point literally anybody could show up and say they have insider knowledge, you guys would start believing them, fighting and trying to dox people over it.
At this point i just hope actual insiders start saying things again. This community is starving.

I may be in the minority but i like not knowing. I am just getting impatient for the reveal. I want to be legitly surprised by this, like i was for Joker and Banjo.

 

[OffBi]

At this point i just hope actual insiders start saying things again. This community is starving.

Yeah...

 

[egaddmario]

I'm hoping those Demon X Machina spirits will be available on the spirit board or the shop. Those are the only 4 I'm missing and I'm too lazy to download and play the demo.

Seriously. I'm in the same boat.

 

[Firox]

Seriously. I'm in the same boat.

What's frustrating for me is that I actually played BOTH DxM Demos but didn't realize there was an event in Smash for it. (face palm)

 

[TooManyToastahs]

If anything i'm fascinated by how much drama you guys are able to generate over fake leaks and stupid theories. At this point literally anybody could show up and say they have insider knowledge, you guys would start believing them, fighting and trying to dox people over it.
At this point i just hope actual insiders start saying things again. This community is starving.

It’s really not a wise decision to come in here and stir up trouble, friend. It’s okay if you disagree with Fatman and don’t believe him, but there’s no need to antagonize him and the whole thread. We’re just discussing video game rumors after all.

 

[riggsbass]

If anything i'm fascinated by how much drama you guys are able to generate over fake leaks and stupid theories. At this point literally anybody could show up and say they have insider knowledge, you guys would start believing them, fighting and trying to dox people over it.
At this point i just hope actual insiders start saying things again. This community is starving.

Doxing who? lmao

 

[MisterMike]

If anything i'm fascinated by how much drama you guys are able to generate over fake leaks and stupid theories.

Actually, most drama that's happened recently had to do with someone airing their grievances with Fatman in this thread. Aside from that happening we're pretty chill.

At this point literally anybody could show up and say they have insider knowledge, you guys would start believing them, fighting and trying to dox people over it.

I can't help it if we were all born yesterday.

At this point i just hope actual insiders start saying things again. This community is starving.

Agreed. Honestly, I'm suprised how quiet it's been on the insider front. You'd figure there'd be something in terms of what's next yet the only thing we know regarding FP5 is who it isn't.

 

[AugustusB]

I may be in the minority but i like not knowing. I am just getting impatient for the reveal. I want to be legitly surprised by this, like i was for Joker and Banjo.

I am in the same boat at this point. Joker was such a nice surprise for the Smash fanbase.

Geno related. Let's say you are in charge of bringing the character back into the Mario verse. Do you keep them in the RPG genre or reintroduce them into a "Traditional" Mario platformer/scroller/whatever the mainline games can be called?

 

[zferolie]

I think Sakurai has such a tight leash on the news that only someone really close would leak something now. Like i saod before, not a signle person was mentioning Terry till the mistake by nintendo, that allowed leakers to get some information.

So right now no one has any idea because no one who knows isnt leaking as they are close to sakuari and easily discovered

 

[Fatmanonice]

Lots to talk about. Woke up this morning and saw a ton of people talking about Dante so I decided to analyze things and I came to the following conclusion... Dante's probably not coming for awhile but may wind up being character 11. I'll explain because I think the fanbase falls into this trap a lot.

When Sakurai "finalized" the Fighter's Pass:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bgr.co...ash-bros-ultimate-dlc-fighters-finalized/amp/

Early November 2018. This means that 1-5 (possibly 6) were already picked at this point. Dante missed the boat. Moving on.

When Kamiya did his character poll:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...his_characters_youd_like_to_see_in_smash_bros

Mid December 2018. This was when Kamiya was drafting ideas for Smash.

When Capcom first addressed Dante for Smash:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vg247.com/2019/02/07/dante-smash-bros-devil-may-cry-switch/amp/

Early February 2019. Capcom basically says that DMC has to not only appear a decent amount on Nintendo platforms but has to do well. This heavily suggests that Dante would not have been seriously considered for Smash yet because no DMC games were on Nintendo platforms yet. Moving on.

When Devil May Cry was first ported to the Switch:

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/devil-may-cry-switch/#game-info

June 2019. It was around this time period that Dante for Smash rumors were first heard by insiders. Realistically, this would be the earliest that Dante would be seriously considered for Smash and we're talking about negotiations and planning, never mind actual development, which Sakurai has said typically takes 10 months to a year for a character. This means that if Dante literally started development in late June, he'd only be about 7 months so... Kind of undercooked. This is what makes me doubt Dante for 5 or 6 but totally makes him a possibility for later.

Like I keep repeating, a common mistake made is that insiders believe the latest character they hear will be revealed soon. Vergeben fell for it with Hero. Papagenos fell for it for Banjo. Hitagi fell for it for Lloyd. Sabi fell for it for Geno. Paragon fell for it for Waluigi. "Mii costume guy" fell for it for Crash. Brew fell for it Ryu. I feel like people are falling for it again for Dante. I think all these people are correct... It's just that their timing is off but that's not at all unusual.

Ultimate began development in late 2015 and this means that the base roster was decided during this time. Pokemon Sun and Moon didn't even exist yet. Incineroar was literally just a placeholder at this point in development. Inceniroar wouldn't even be formally revealed until roughly two years after Sun and Moon came out. Incineroar was technically decided before it even existed and almost THREE YEARS before it was formally revealed in Smash. Let's extend this line of thinking to DLC.

DLC was supposedly pitched to Sakurai around the time Smash Ultimate was first revealed, so, early March 2018. Joker was released mid April 2019. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sakurai himself confirmed that Joker, Hero, and Banjo were all already in development in December 2018. Verge heard Hero in August 2018. Papagenos heard Banjo in October 2018. This all fits this timeline especially since we know the Fighter's Pass was "finalized" early November 2018.

Now, fitting ForsakenM's very insightful timeline theory, Season 2 was possibly pitched as early as December 2018. Let's name a bunch of characters that were heard either during this month or before: Waluigi, Ryu, Lloyd, Geno, and Dante. Why is this significant? It follows past precedent and Sakurai's practice of deciding characters first and then moving forward. Season 1 was already decided and being worked on, potentially leaving this pool of characters the first to be considered for Season 2. Like it's been demonstrated, it's not at all unusual for Sakurai to decide characters well in advance and work on them later, usually with their official reveal being years off in the future, after all, returning characters like Snake and the Ice Climbers would be decided in late 2015 but not revealed until mid 2018.

So, what am I getting at? Just to be more obnoxious than I already am, I'm going to take this timeline in consideration and say that Dante will probably be coming... Eventually. My guess is that he'll be 11 at the earliest or he'll kick off "the Final Season." So, what does my little timeline suggest?

-It suggests that Nintendo probably had a good idea of who they wanted for the Fighter's Pass by the end of 2017, nearly two years after development began. This is was also the end of the Switch's first full year, which not only helps explain the content we've gotten in the base game but the Fighter's Pass. For example, this definitely helps explain why popular characters like Rex missed out, because Nintendo already had a good idea who they wanted as DLC before 2017 even ended. Nintendo probably sat on the list until Ultimate was formally revealed.

-It suggests that Nintendo already had a good number of characters it was strongly considering for Season 2 before the Fighter's Pass was even fully decided. Sakurai planning for "Season 2" almost immediately following finalizing Season 1 really isn't that unusual especially when you consider Ultimate began pretty much as soon as Smash 4 wrapped up and at GDC 2008 Sakurai more or less admitted he already had plans in mind for the next Smash game after Brawl. The man thinks ahead to a frightening degree and it's probably how he keeps his sanity.

-My theory gets adjusted to this: 5: Dragonborn, 6: some tall guy, I dunno, 7: Geno, 8: Lloyd, 9: Crash, 10: Ryu:, 11: Dante? This also fits the rumor that there's currently 6 characters planned after 5. Minus Crash, all these characters were technically heard as far back as 2018, a time period that we've established that Sakurai was probably already considering characters for Season 2.

Now, to clean up bits and pieces:

"What about Joker? Joker wasn't on Nintendo platforms in late 2017."

Joker wasn't but Persona was.

Persona Q: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_Q:_Shadow_of_the_Labyrinth

This game came out in 2014. This also doesn't include the super long history of Shin Megami Tensei games on Nintendo platforms. Like Cloud, it didn't matter if his signature game wasn't on Nintendo platforms because his series definitely already had a presence. This also adds to my theory as to why Dante wouldn't have been considered until much later (his first game on Switch wasn't until summer 2019) and part of why Dragonborn was probably picked over Doom Marine (March vs October 2017, Skyrim for Switch would have already had about a year's worth of sales data to influence Nintendo's decision to consider to pitch it to Sakurai in March 2018).

"What about Crash?"

My personal theory is that Crash has followed a timeline similar to Banjo. Idea was pitched early 2018, negotiations started around E3, development started fall 2018, and his release was fall 2019. My theory is that characters are most likely to be "heard" either when they start negotiations or when they very first begin development. My theory is that Crash began negotiations around E3 2019 so that he'd be ready for an E3 2020 reveal.

Uh, I think that covers everything for now.

 

[zferolie]

Lots to talk about. Woke up this morning and saw a ton of people talking about Dante so I decided to analyze things and I came to the following conclusion... Dante's probably not coming for awhile but may wind up being character 11. I'll explain because I think the fanbase falls into this trap a lot.

When Sakurai "finalized" the Fighter's Pass:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bgr.co...ash-bros-ultimate-dlc-fighters-finalized/amp/

Early November 2018. This means that 1-5 (possibly 6) were already picked at this point. Dante missed the boat. Moving on.

When Kamiya did his character poll:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...his_characters_youd_like_to_see_in_smash_bros

Mid December 2018. This was when Kamiya was drafting ideas for Smash.

When Capcom first addressed Dante for Smash:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vg247.com/2019/02/07/dante-smash-bros-devil-may-cry-switch/amp/

Early February 2019. Capcom basically says that DMC has to not only appear a decent amount on Nintendo platforms but has to do well. This heavily suggests that Dante would not have been seriously considered for Smash yet because no DMC games were on Nintendo platforms yet. Moving on.

When Devil May Cry was first ported to the Switch:

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/devil-may-cry-switch/#game-info

June 2019. It was around this time period that Dante for Smash rumors were first heard by insiders. Realistically, this would be the earliest that Dante would be seriously considered for Smash and we're talking about negotiations and planning, never mind actual development, which Sakurai has said typically takes 10 months to a year for a character. This means that if Dante literally started development in late June, he'd only be about 7 months so... Kind of undercooked. This is what makes me doubt Dante for 5 or 6 but totally makes him a possibility for later.

Like I keep repeating, a common mistake made is that insiders believe the latest character they hear will be revealed soon. Vergeben fell for it with Hero. Papagenos fell for it for Banjo. Hitagi fell for it for Lloyd. Sabi fell for it for Geno. Paragon fell for it for Waluigi. "Mii costume guy" fell for it for Crash. Brew fell for it Ryu. I feel like people are falling for it again for Dante. I think all these people are correct... It's just that their timing is off but that's not at all unusual.

Ultimate began development in late 2015 and this means that the base roster was decided during this time. Pokemon Sun and Moon didn't even exist yet. Incineroar was literally just a placeholder at this point in development. Inceniroar wouldn't even be formally revealed until roughly two years after Sun and Moon came out. Incineroar was technically decided before it even existed and almost THREE YEARS before it was formally revealed in Smash. Let's extend this line of thinking to DLC.

DLC was supposedly pitched to Sakurai around the time Smash Ultimate was first revealed, so, early March 2018. Joker was released mid April 2019. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sakurai himself confirmed that Joker, Hero, and Banjo were all already in development in December 2018. Verge heard Hero in August 2018. Papagenos heard Banjo in October 2018. This all fits this timeline especially since we know the Fighter's Pass was "finalized" early November 2018.

Now, fitting ForsakenM's very insightful timeline theory, Season 2 was possibly pitched as early as December 2018. Let's name a bunch of characters that were heard either during this month or before: Waluigi, Ryu, Lloyd, Geno, and Dante. Why is this significant? It follows past precedent and Sakurai's practice of deciding characters first and then moving forward. Season 1 was already decided and being worked on, potentially leaving this pool of characters the first to be considered for Season 2. Like it's been demonstrated, it's not at all unusual for Sakurai to decide characters well in advance and work on them later, usually with their official reveal being years off in the future, after all, returning characters like Snake and the Ice Climbers would be decided in late 2015 but not revealed until mid 2018.

So, what am I getting at? Just to be more obnoxious than I already am, I'm going to take this timeline in consideration and say that Dante will probably be coming... Eventually. My guess is that he'll be 11 at the earliest or he'll kick off "the Final Season." So, what does my little timeline suggest?

-It suggests that Nintendo probably had a good idea of who they wanted for the Fighter's Pass by the end of 2017, nearly two years after development began. This is was also the end of the Switch's first full year, which not only helps explain the content we've gotten in the base game but the Fighter's Pass. For example, this definitely helps explain why popular characters like Rex missed out, because Nintendo already had a good idea who they wanted as DLC before 2017 even ended. Nintendo probably sat on the list until Ultimate was formally revealed.

-It suggests that Nintendo already had a good number of characters it was strongly considering for Season 2 before the Fighter's Pass was even fully decided. Sakurai planning for "Season 2" almost immediately following finalizing Season 1 really isn't that unusual especially when you consider Ultimate began pretty much as soon as Smash 4 wrapped up and at GDC 2008 Sakurai more or less admitted he already had plans in mind for the next Smash game after Brawl. The man thinks ahead to a frightening degree and it's probably how he keeps his sanity.

-My theory gets adjusted to this: 5: Dragonborn, 6: some tall guy, I dunno, 7: Geno, 8: Lloyd, 9: Crash, 10: Ryu:, 11: Dante? This also fits the rumor that there's currently 6 characters planned after 5. Minus Crash, all these characters were technically heard as far back as 2018, a time period that we've established that Sakurai was probably already considering characters for Season 2.

Now, to clean up bits and pieces:

"What about Joker? Joker wasn't on Nintendo platforms in late 2017."

Joker wasn't but Persona was.

Persona Q: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_Q:_Shadow_of_the_Labyrinth

This game came out in 2014. This also doesn't include the super long history of Shin Megami Tensei games on Nintendo platforms. Like Cloud, it didn't matter if his signature game wasn't on Nintendo platforms because his series definitely already had a presence. This also adds to my theory as to why Dante wouldn't have been considered until much later (his first game on Switch wasn't until summer 2019) and part of why Dragonborn was probably picked over Doom Marine (March vs October 2017, Skyrim for Switch would have already had about a year's worth of sales data to influence Nintendo's decision to consider to pitch it to Sakurai in March 2018).

"What about Crash?"

My personal theory is that Crash has followed a timeline similar to Banjo. Idea was pitched early 2018, negotiations started around E3, development started fall 2018, and his release was fall 2019. My theory is that characters are most likely to be "heard" either when they start negotiations or when they very first begin development. My theory is that Crash began negotiations around E3 2019 so that he'd be ready for an E3 2020 reveal.

Uh, I think that covers everything for now.

Long post is long, but i see the reasoning behind all that. Its just... we dont know exactly how or when these characters are picked or anything. Its just guessing, and you are doing a great job trying to put it all together, and i appreciate that.

I just want to make sure people arent going to take this as gosple, as i am sure you also want to make sure too.

Now for example, we were.told Dante couldnt be in smash until he was on the system, so we assume he wasnt contacted till DmC came out. However, how do we know they didnt decide to have Dante in smash first, and then decided to port the game after that was decided? We dont know, we can just speculate.

So yes you may be right Fatman, but it also could be wrong. Really right now as i have said we really have no idea at all what is going to happen at all. I do think that it is likely we hear about 5 and 6 around the same time, wether that is tied to a bonus or a new fp is up in the air though. It could be dragonborn with waluigi as you seem to be suggesting. If could be Arle with Dante. It could be Shantae with Geno. It could be Reimu with Doomguy. We just have no idea at all

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Fatmanonice hey man, I was just a little bit curious. Arle from poyo poyo gets thrown around surprisingly a lot from big names in the smash speculation game. Is Arle a genuine contender in the race or is this some kind of wild card guess or a red herring?

I will admit the amount of Puyo Puyo images Sakurai has been posting is really peculiar

While Puyo Puyo is a big series in Japan... let's be real, this would be the reaction if she actually got in:

 

[zferolie]

I will admit the amount of Puyo Puyo images Sakurai has been posting is really peculiar

While Puyo Puyo is a big series in Japan... let's be real, this would be the reaction if she actually got in:

View attachment 256285

Well nintendo and sega seem to be trying to push her more. The puyo puyo tetris game. Bringing puyo puyo for the us nintendo online when it was a japan exclusive.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

Long post is long, but i see the reasoning behind all that. Its just... we dont know exactly how or when these characters are picked or anything. Its just guessing, and you are doing a great job trying to put it all together, and i appreciate that.

I just want to make sure people arent going to take this as gosple, as i am sure you also want to make sure too.

Now for example, we were.told Dante couldnt be in smash until he was on the system, so we assume he wasnt contacted till DmC came out. However, how do we know they didnt decide to have Dante in smash first, and then decided to port the game after that was decided? We dont know, we can just speculate.

So yes you may be right Fatman, but it also could be wrong. Really right now as i have said we really have no idea at all what is going to happen at all. I do think that it is likely we hear about 5 and 6 around the same time, wether that is tied to a bonus or a new fp is up in the air though. It could be dragonborn with waluigi as you seem to be suggesting. If could be Arle with Dante. It could be Shantae with Geno. It could be Reimu with Doomguy. We just have no idea at all

That’s the beauty of speculation, it allows for so many different ideas and predictions, all of which could be right or wrong. Whether or not it’s based on evidence, patterns, leaks, etc. doesn’t matter, because at the end of the day it’s driven by mostly opinion. It makes speculation uniquely personal, like filling out a March Madness bracket. Except here you don’t win money for being correct, maybe just bragging rights lol

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

If anything i'm fascinated by how much drama you guys are able to generate over fake leaks and stupid theories. At this point literally anybody could show up and say they have insider knowledge, you guys would start believing them, fighting and trying to dox people over it.
At this point i just hope actual insiders start saying things again. This community is starving.

Hey, we're not the ones that keep coming into the thread and stirring up the hive. Regardless of whether or not Fatman's contacts are real, we still consider it no more than speculation, (speculation that we're willing to entertain because the information drought has left smash speculation boring as hell.) which makes it hilarious when people come in and say stuff like "Man, you guys will believe anything". If entertaining wild speculation counts as believing everything, then I don't think there's any real defense I can present. Believe what you will mon amie. It's not that deep.

 

[zferolie]

That’s the beauty of speculation, it allows for so many different ideas and predictions, all of which could be right or wrong. Whether or not it’s based on evidence, patterns, leaks, etc. doesn’t matter, because at the end of the day it’s driven by mostly opinion. It makes speculation uniquely personal, like filling out a March Madness bracket. Except here you don’t win money for being correct, maybe just bragging rights lol

Indeed. I just think some people seem to be taking speculation as gospel. I admit i almost started to before i stepped back.

My speculation is still that daisy and color theory means something, feeling that a female that could fit woth an orange color background is fp5. Arle and Shantae are my top ones. Also i feel like at the time of picking tje dlc they assumed this was going to be it, so the last 1 and maybe a bonus was going to be fan requests. Shantae fits that with a bonus of Geno. Arle and bonus Geno fot this theory as well. Geno by far is the most requested and wanted worldwide, so him as a bonus "final" character if this FP was planned as the only dlc at the time.

So i am standing by that. FP5 is someone that can be tied to Daisy Theory and color theory, and a bonus of Geno due to at the time fp was the only planned dlc.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I'm gonna go ahead and predict that fp5 will be neither orange, nor female. Deal w/ it nerds.

Spoiler

it's gonna be the hero of oakvale. Quote me on it. Fable's coming back, baby, and not even Peter Molyneux can stop it

 

[Fatmanonice]

I still think it's way too soon for Dante. If Sakurai literally decided Dante the day Kamiya's poll ended, he'd still be less than a year old if you threw in the time for negotiations and planning. Bayo was supposedly knocked out in about 10 months but was also a broken mess at launch and got a ton of nerfs over multiple patches but still wound up being the best character in Smash 4 but a decent margin. There's no point for a time crunch with Dante given it seems like there's no hard deadline and Sakurai can keep working on Smash Ultimate until he doesn't want to anymore. I dunno. I feel like there's too many factors that wholly suggest that Dante wasn't even seriously considered until about half a year ago, if that. Meanwhile, you've got characters like Geno that have literally been on the man's radar since 2006 and it's such a juxtapose of approaches.

 

[Deleted member]

I will admit the amount of Puyo Puyo images Sakurai has been posting is really peculiar

While Puyo Puyo is a big series in Japan... let's be real, this would be the reaction if she actually got in:

View attachment 256285

People are really pushing the "Puyo" narrative on these images, but one could argue them to be references to absolutely anything. The Augumon twitter, either jokingly or seriously, thought that Falco looked like he was holding a Digivice and Jigglypuff is the little pink marshmallow that turns into Augumon... but it's really obvious Falco's the cops, he's flashing a badge. The Kirby/Pac-Man/Sonic is a very obviously supposed to be dango, although a little out of order and miscolored... Maybe I'm just a gross weaboo and it's only obvious to me.

I've said it before but if people didn't learn from the Rathalos/"Golden Sun angle" picture then they'll never learn.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I mean, Dante has been on Nintendo systems for years thanks to Project X Zone. It's about the equivalent of what Cloud had when he got into Smash, and probably more than what Joker had when he was chosen lol. It doesn't take much to get different icons into Smash, so Dante could so very easily have gotten in regardless of Devil May Cry on Switch.

 

[3DSNinja]

I think Ryu might actually be fighter #5. He wouldn't be very unexpected or shocking, which is why he wasn't revealed at the game awards.
Then again it could be a Fallout rep for all we know to blow our minds.

 

[Lyncario]

I will admit the amount of Puyo Puyo images Sakurai has been posting is really peculiar

While Puyo Puyo is a big series in Japan... let's be real, this would be the reaction if she actually got in:

View attachment 256285

Actualy, Puyo Puyo is very decently popular in Europe, and she's an half common third party pick for Smash here.

 

[zferolie]

People are really pushing the "Puyo" narrative on these images, but one could argue them to be references to absolutely anything. The Augumon twitter, either jokingly or seriously, thought that Falco looked like he was holding a Digivice and Jigglypuff is the little pink marshmallow that turns into Augumon... but it's really obvious Falco's the cops, he's flashing a badge. The Kirby/Pac-Man/Sonic is a very obviously supposed to be dango, although a little out of order and miscolored... Maybe I'm just a gross weaboo and it's only obvious to me.

I've said it before but if people didn't learn from the Rathalos/"Golden Sun angle" picture then they'll never learn.

The only image i think is an actual hint is the anniversary picture with all the DLC , Mario, and the very out of place Daisy. She is repping the unknown FP5, i garuntee it.

The pics Sakurai are posting i think are just random funny pictures he likes, and means nothing else.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean, Dante has been on Nintendo systems for years thanks to Project X Zone. It's about the equivalent of what Cloud had when he got into Smash, and probably more than what Joker had when he was chosen lol. It doesn't take much to get different icons into Smash, so Dante could so very easily have gotten in regardless of Devil May Cry on Switch.

One of the interviews I posted literally addressed this. Final Fantasy has a history on Nintendo platforms going back more than 30 years. SMT goes back to the SNES and the Persona game I referenced was 2014. Until last summer, there were literally no Devil May Cry games on Nintendo platforms. Yes, he had cameos but even Sakurai himself has said that actually having games on Nintendo platforms is kind of important when it comes to consideration. Literally every character has followed this before their addition. Either their specific game or their series had at least one game on Nintendo platforms before being added. Dante didn't have that until very, very recently.

 

[Deleted member]

The only image i think is an actual hint is the anniversary picture with all the DLC , Mario, and the very out of place Daisy. She is repping the unknown FP5, i garuntee it.

The pics Sakurai are posting i think are just random funny pictures he likes, and means nothing else.

Daisy is a placeholder, yes. I don't believe that the character choice means anything, though, aside from maybe confirmation that color theory is right and the character's going to have an orange background.

 

[zferolie]

Daisy is a placeholder, yes. I don't believe that the character choice means anything, though, aside from maybe confirmation that color theory is right and the character's going to have an orange background.

I can get behind if its just for color theory. Still, orange background that is tied to the series or character doesnt leave as many still. Dragonborn in particular i think doesnt fit color theory at all as oramge has nothong to do woth them or skyrim, and honestly may look ugly with their more bland colors.

Doomslayer fits, shantae fits(her logo has always been oranage or on an orange background) Crash almost works but maybe blend too much with his fur color, Reimu works a bit, and a few namco characters work like KOSMOS and Llyod.

 

[Fatmanonice]

My zero ****s given take on Daisy theory since we're back on this topic again:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2142#post-23758101

 

[Heoj]

I feel like daisy was added in that picture just to simply add a character that compliments piranha plant, so basically just to make the image symmetrical.

 

[zferolie]

My zero ****s given take on Daisy theory since we're back on this topic again:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2142#post-23758101

Oh i know you arent a big fan of it, but again, just speculation . I choose to beleive it means something is all

 

[Rohanx17]

Did we ever get the results to that poll?

 

[Deleted member]

I can get behind if its just for color theory. Still, orange background that is tied to the series or character doesnt leave as many still. Dragonborn in particular i think doesnt fit color theory at all as oramge has nothong to do woth them or skyrim, and honestly may look ugly with their more bland colors.

Doomslayer fits, shantae fits(her logo has always been oranage or on an orange background) Crash almost works but maybe blend too much with his fur color, Reimu works a bit, and a few namco characters work like KOSMOS and Llyod.

It doesn't have to be a predominant color on the character (and for that reason I believe Crash would end up having a blue background because of how much he'd likely bleed into an orange background), just somewhere on them. There's a good deal of characters who could fit that bill, but I agree that the typical depiction of the "canon" Dragonborn wouldn't fit with an orange background. I mean no disrespect to fatman's theories when I say that I have zero faith in the possibility of Dragonborn being a playable character in Smash... But color theory also kind of kills my most likely (Vault Boy), so who knows.

As I've said before, despite the odds being heavily against it, Geno does have orange on him, and blue and orange creates excitement according to every graphic design professor.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I feel like daisy was added in that picture just to simply add a character that compliments piranha plant, so basically just to make the image symmetrical.

Probably this. I dunno. This fanbase has analyzed everything over the years. Clouds. Chairs. Shadows. Soooo many screenshots and paused videos. Background elements. We're persnickety little ****s, aren't we?

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I will admit the amount of Puyo Puyo images Sakurai has been posting is really peculiar

While Puyo Puyo is a big series in Japan... let's be real, this would be the reaction if she actually got in:

View attachment 256285

Vergeben shot down Arle already.


It ain’t happening anytime soon

 

[3DSNinja]

yep we are. we overanalayze everything.

 

[zferolie]

It doesn't have to be a predominant color on the character (and for that reason I believe Crash would end up having a blue background because of how much he'd likely bleed into an orange background), just somewhere on them. There's a good deal of characters who could fit that bill, but I agree that the typical depiction of the "canon" Dragonborn wouldn't fit with an orange background. I mean no disrespect to fatman's theories when I say that I have zero faith in the possibility of Dragonborn being a playable character in Smash... But color theory also kind of kills my most likely (Vault Boy), so who knows.

As I've said before, despite the odds being heavily against it, Geno does have orange on him, and blue and orange creates excitement according to every graphic design professor.

True, the background doesnt need to be orange, just orange somewhere on them. And Geno as the final fits the idea that when they first liked the dlc they planned asif this was all the dlc, so would have wanted to end on a high note. Dragonborn is not a high note.

I know we know more are comong, but if we assume dlc was picked or started around summer of 2018, and they didnt decide on more dlc till around e3 of 2019(if what we have been hearing is true), then its safe to assume sakurai wanted to make this dlc be big and wanted to end on a good note.

Probably this. I dunno. This fanbase has analyzed everything over the years. Clouds. Chairs. Shadows. Soooo many screenshots and paused videos. Background elements. We're persnickety little ****s, aren't we?

Smash fans are insane

 

[Droodle]

I will admit the amount of Puyo Puyo images Sakurai has been posting is really peculiar

While Puyo Puyo is a big series in Japan... let's be real, this would be the reaction if she actually got in:

View attachment 256285

If Terry can make it, so can Arle. She's pretty iconic in Japan, and puyo puyo has also done decently well on the Switch. And it's not even that unknown in the West either.

Just because she's a niche pick in Smash speculation, doesn't mean she's a literal who. There are a dozen of characters like Arle, Adol, Bub and Bob, Reimu, who have the legacy/importance to get into Smash; even if they may not be that well known in the West. There's a ton of potential picks especially if you leave the Smash/Western popularity bubble.

Besides it's kind of hypocritical to post this in the Geno thread, as Geno would be a literal who to anyone that is not into Smash Speculation.

Also, I can totally buy Dante starting off the Fighter's Pass 2. The dude is popular, flashy, and relevant similar to Joker. His popularity also isn't limited to a specific region. The dude would sell a ton of passes just by himself.

While Fatman could be right in his assumptions, I feel as though the poll that Kamiya made has no impact on the timing of things. Nintendo might have known DMC coming to the Switch since December of 2018, making him too late for Pass 1, but just in time for pass 2.

 

[castinets98]

One of the interviews I posted literally addressed this. Final Fantasy has a history on Nintendo platforms going back more than 30 years. SMT goes back to the SNES and the Persona game I referenced was 2014. Until last summer, there were literally no Devil May Cry games on Nintendo platforms. Yes, he had cameos but even Sakurai himself has said that actually having games on Nintendo platforms is kind of important when it comes to consideration. Literally every character has followed this before their addition. Either their specific game or their series had at least one game on Nintendo platforms before being added. Dante didn't have that until very, very recently.

To this I would respond that the Ultimate dev team has been working with Capcom for a bit now (since the negotiations to bring back Ryu and Megaman and add Ken and the Rathalos boss) and Sakurai knows Kamiya really well. It may be the case that a decision to port Devil May Cry to Switch was made concurrently or even after Dante was pegged as DLC. The cuteness with which the DMC team has talked about needing to "consummate" Dante as a character who can be added to Smash implies that it may have been a final detail to work out in the wake of the decision to add Dante. Additionally, we could think about Bayonetta's inclusion as a sign that Sakurai has considered Dante and characters related to his genre for some time.

Basically, I am on board with your idea that Dante would seem to be a year away, but there are some personal and professional connections that Sora ltd has that would make it slightly more plausible for him to have been
negotiated for more efficiently.

 

[Deleted member]

True, the background doesnt need to be orange, just orange somewhere on them. And Geno as the final fits the idea that when they first liked the dlc they planned asif this was all the dlc, so would have wanted to end on a high note. Dragonborn is not a high note.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - the background does have to be orange for color theory to be proven "correct" (which, it has been pointed out here before that even if correct, color theory does nothing but limit the characters from 90 billion to 10 thousand), but what makes the background a color is the fact that the color is on the character.

For what it's worth, I disagree that Dragonborn isn't a "high note". With the smash fandom at large, probably not. Even in the wildest of ****posts no one says they want Dragonborn, but in terms of continuing to draw eyes to the kind of phenomenon Smash is? Dragonborn is a tremendously high note.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

5. Dovahkin

1. Ryu Hayabusa
2. Reimu
3. Crash Bandicoot
4. Dante
5. Master Chief


How do you all feel about this lineup?

Because they all seem the likeliest imo.

 

[castinets98]

I think Daisy is just a nod to color theory and as long as the FP5 has an orange background, people will say Daisy was alluding to it.

How do you all feel about this lineup?

Because they all seem pretty likely imo.

The theme of this board aside, I think you have to think Geno is going to get in this year. They need at least one character that really speaks to the Smash fanbase (as opposed to just video game fans or Nintendo fans) and that's your surest bet left.

I also think people have a tendency to get too pat with their predictions for the second season. There will be at least one Terry type inclusion, somebody who is just bigger historically than they are popularly. Somebody like Kunio or Ragna. Just a thought.