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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Qeomash

Qeomash

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SonicSmasher1 said:
I am trying to find it. But there was a remix of Forest Maze said to be unused for Brawl.
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There was a conspicuous gap in music ID numbers in Brawl. Some speculated that it was for Forest Mushrooms, but we never got the music that was missing.
 
Franco Geno

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Fatmanonice said:
Old rumor but supposedly it wasn't a Forest Maze remix but a Toadwood Forest from Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time remix that was cut for whatever reason.
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I mean they made Wolf playable instead of Krystal because of time constraints so maybe it was a situation similar to that
 
CannonStreak

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Well, while I am having trouble finding the source before 2016, I do remember people saying that Sakurai did want Geno in Brawl before Smash 4 was ever announced. I don't know why, but Sakurai may not have said that officially. There were even rumors saying Sakurai had planned Ness' voice actor to voice Geno in Brawl.
 
EricTheGamerman

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Foz said:
I think you're conflating the stuff he has heard with the stuff that he is speculating and trust me that's easy to get mixed up based on Fatman's verbiage. I do it all the time but that's what makes his case so unique compared to Sabi and Verge. Fatman's not a leaker. He's a speculator. He's doing the exact same **** he's been doing for over a decade, just this time he has his been dealt a hand where some of the cards give him access to certain information we don't. He understands this responsibility and is frankly handling it well. Granted, he hasn't always but he's owned up to his mistakes and did so publically. He's only sharing his opinions so that those suffering this leak drought can have a piece of mind. He doesn't owe us anything but is still happy to share because he enjoys doing this and he understands how painfully annoying it can be.

I cannot condone the idea of disqualifying him from speculating and besides Fatman's not even certain about half the **** he's spueing and admits that. You won't get that from ego-driven leakers looking for street cred. If Buddy Holly or Jimi Hendrix gave me some tips on how to play guitar, should I just give up playing guitar?

(That metaphor is probably dumb af but pot is legal in my country so idc)

I may have my biases for Fatman and I consider him a friend but even I don't buy into it. It's on me though to take his word for gospel or not. He's not selling you anything but people are still willing to purchase. If you subsequently get buyers remorse, then that's on you bro. I don't agree with him on this however I'm not gonna try to antagonize him and tell him he shouldn't be sharing his theories. That's just his thing and he enjoys it. Why strip him of this?

(fyi I'm not accusing you specifically of doing any of this Eric. You make some great posts and I enjoy reading them but I'm kinda just summing up my feelings in this post while responding at the same time).

Since when did we start giving limitations to what's considered speculation or not? Like, I'm totally pickin up what you're laying down and he definately has certain privileges that we don't. But he hasn't put all his eggs in one basket based on the things he said because even he's not sure what the outcome may be despite these privileges. Once Easter comes though and he does start overflowing that basket with eggs, than yeah, we can put him on "leaker" status but this isn't the case.

If a random leaker were to personally call me up and give me some deets like: "bro, fp5 is gonna be super cool and someone from a playstation console" and I started speculating whoever he/she may be, does that automatically void my speculation too solely because I got some insider info? I don't think that's fair.
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I don't necessarily care that he's speculating or even that he's bringing information forward that hasn't been commonly discussed on a wider scale, he's more than free to do whatever he wants in that regard. My issue is the constant use of the "I'm just speculating" defense when he brings up specific instances of "insiders and leakers" communicating some sort of sentiment that he is reading into to base his speculation on. Yes, more specifically, that is just his speculation based upon something he has heard and what he thinks... but he's also bringing new information to the table that the public does not have. He can speculate and be "leaking" something in the same breath, which again, I can't clarify enough is perfectly fine. I just don't get why there's this constant rejection of the label when I think it actively does him more harm than good. The greater Smash speculation scene generally considers him a "leaker" whether or not he intends to be or not, so trying to avoid the label just kind of feels like a moot point when it arguably just gives his most vocal critics more ammo to criticize him with (I realize I'm considered one of those critics and have likely been set to ignore, which feels like an overreaction to our disagreements, but oh well).

That's why I point out the "What is the claim based on?" in response to some of his speculation. To quote him directly, "By all accounts, 5 will probably go over about as well as a sour milk filled punch bowl. That's why I think a buffer or two will be needed to stop that potential salt avalanche." The part I've italicized is the issue, what accounts are we talking about here? The only vocal "leakers" that have commented on Fighter #5 for some time have been Vergeben and Sabi, and neither of them came anywhere close to reaching that conclusion or publicly stating if if they thought it. The only account I see of someone claiming that #5 is going to be salt inducing is directly from Fatmanonice. Now, if he just wants to speculate "5 will probably go over poorly" full stop, that's fine. It's the whole language usage of "By all accounts" that causes issues since it's bringing in outside information that hasn't been revealed to the public from some type of source. Which is exactly what traditional leakers do. It's speculation based on something else, but he's the first person to bring that claim to the table (outside of the horribly cynical and pessimistic people who just proclaim that with every character).

I'm not saying discount him (I've made my points before that I don't put much stock in it personally because I just haven't seen anything he's brought up really pan out and when people have asked me about him, I've told them as much). Like he said in his post, people are free to reach their own conclusions when any person brings information to the table that has otherwise been unknown. But being "uncertain" isn't really a way to downplay the fact that you're bringing in previously unknown information on a public forum and thus acting as a "leaker" in some capacity. It's not the whole "you know something and you're basing speculation off of it" that's an issue. That's just reality of being in an insider circle, but it starts to move beyond your speculation when you're bringing in an additional source or referencing that additional information you're playing with, ya feel? (There's also arguments to be made about how much you can speculate from a potentially privileged position of knowledge and what the obligation you should have as someone who carries more weight in the community... but I'm not actually citing that or trying to argue about that right now).

I'm not saying he shouldn't make whatever theories he wants either, but I do think, like all good theories proposed regarding Smash speculation, that they should be confronted and analyzed. I've always found that personally entertaining to do so because it keeps me working with a different part of my brain on a Smash website. When I say, "Here are my issues with your theory," it's genuinely not meant to shut down the theory as much as it directly confront the substance of a theory or speculative line of thought. All good theories deserve criticism honestly, and that's how we end up with better ones in the long run.
 
EarlTamm

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SonicSmasher1 said:
Well, while I am having trouble finding the source before 2016, I do remember people saying that Sakurai did want Geno in Brawl before Smash 4 was ever announced. I don't know why, but Sakurai may not have said that officially. There were even rumors saying Sakurai had planned Ness' voice actor to voice Geno in Brawl.
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I have never heard this, and we have had plenty of voice talk in the past. I am sure someone would've brought this up if it were true.
 
CannonStreak

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EarlTamm said:
I have never heard this, and we have had plenty of voice talk in the past. I am sure someone would've brought this up if it were true.
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Well, first, this was more people saying Sakurai said he wanted Geno. Come to think of it, he may not have said it directly then.

Second, this was during the days of Brawl, 2006-2008. I did hear it. I am sure I did, whether you believe me or not.
 
EarlTamm

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SonicSmasher1 said:
Well, first, this was more people saying Sakurai said he wanted Geno. Come to think of it, he may not have said it directly then.

Second, this was during the days of Brawl, 2006-2008. I did hear it. I am sure I did, whether you believe me or not.
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I am not doubting that you heard it, I just don't know much this can be trusted, especially since it has never been brought up here before. It's not like this thread is lacking people who were around in that time-frame, so it never being brought up is kinda odd.
 
CannonStreak

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EarlTamm said:
I am not doubting that you heard it, I just don't know much this can be trusted, especially since it has never been brought up here before. It's not like this thread is lacking people who were around in that time-frame, so it never being brought up is kinda odd.
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Look, let's just forget this, buy and eat some Wendy's food, and move on, okay?
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Actually, yes, Sakurai has wanted Geno since Brawl.

"Geno:

—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?

Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.

—Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?

Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume."

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/ Source as well.
 
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Knight Before Christmas said:
Actually, yes, Sakurai has wanted Geno since Brawl.

"Geno:

—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?

Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.

—Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?

Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume."

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/ Source as well.
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Yeah. We just didn’t know if Sakurai ever mentioned Geno before this since this is his only documented mention of him directly from Sakurai.


SonicSmasher1 said:
Yeah, you can come along. And Mega_Mario_Man Mega_Mario_Man can tag along, too.
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Count me in as well.
 
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Zinith

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Fun fact. I'm a regular patron at a local bar and there's another patron who's there all the time named Geno.

No, I'm not joking. He even lives in the same apartment complex as me although I never see him :yoshi:
 
CannonStreak

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Zinith said:
Fun fact. I'm a regular patron at a local bar and there's another patron who's there all the time named Geno.

No, I'm not joking. He even lives in the same apartment complex as me although I never see him :yoshi:
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Really? I thought his name was going to be Boshi.
 
CannonStreak

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Zinith said:
That'd be the day. Running into someone actually named Boshi :yoshi:
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Well, Yoshi is a Japanese name. With luck, if you ever go there, you may find someone with that name in Japan, or Washi, as Boshi is called over there.
 
Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I even remember a Gina at my workplace. A person named Geno doesn't sound ultimately that odd. Boshi on the other hand sounds... a lot less common. Yoshi, on the other hand, is a pretty common Japanese name.
 
AugustusB

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Sooo...Does anyone have access to the "way back machine" to see if Nintendo's maintenance page showed future updates around the other Fighters release?

Because that is something to look at it.
 
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CannonStreak

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AugustusB said:
Sooo...Does anyone have access to the "way back machine" to see if Nintendo's maintenance page showed future updates around the other Fighters release?

Because that is something to look at it.
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I have used Wayback before. Just give me the dates and I'll look.
 
D

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SonicSmasher1 said:
Well, Yoshi is a Japanese name. With luck, if you ever go there, you may find someone with that name in Japan, or Washi, as Boshi is called over there.
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Knight Before Christmas said:
I even remember a Gina at my workplace. A person named Geno doesn't sound ultimately that odd. Boshi on the other hand sounds... a lot less common. Yoshi, on the other hand, is a pretty common Japanese name.
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Heck, Amato Yoshi is also the real name of Splinter/the man who owned Splinter in TMNT lore:

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hamato_Yoshi
 
CannonStreak

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Odd. For some reason, when I check the snapshots, I keep getting the current page that says there's an update for January 6, 2020 for the Switch, nothing from before. I wonder what's wrong?
 
Zinith

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SonicSmasher1 said:
Well, Yoshi is a Japanese name. With luck, if you ever go there, you may find someone with that name in Japan, or Washi, as Boshi is called over there.
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Well to be fair, most people in Japan named "Yoshi" are in Kanji (義 and 良 for instance) while my boi's name is in Katakana (ヨッシー) :yoshi:
 
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