Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

A BIG shout-out to ForsakenM and his theories yesterday because it made me had multiple epiphanies (no, that's not a euphemism...) about my own theories and gave me new trains of thought to ride on. I'll split these thoughts into two main sections in two separate posts.

1. The Element of Time

When considering my own theories, I often ignored the importance of the element of time, especially when theorizing when certain decisions were made. Thanks to Sakurai, we know development on Ultimate started in late 2015, that DLC was decided Spring 2018, and that the plans for the Fighter's Pass were finalized late Fall 2018. Recently we discovered that plans for Season 2 were probably finalized around E3 2019 so that begs the question... When did Nintendo decide on additional DLC?

Thanks to ForsakenM 's theory, we have a strong hypothesis for this. Chances are it was decided shortly after the Fighter's Pass was announced, likely December or January. How do we know this? One big clue is that the 16 dummy slots for Smash Ultimate appeared in the game's code in January. This means that if Season 2 and possibly beyond was decided here, it was finalized around E3, about 6 1/2 months later. Why does this sound familiar? If Smash Ultimate's DLC was decided Spring 2018 but finalized early November 2018, this also a similar time gap: about 6 1/2 to 7 months. Very interesting coincidence.

This timeframe is further strengthened by what we know. Sakurai has said that characters take roughly 10 months to a year to develop from negotiation, to planning, to actual development, to the final product. If the Fighter's Pass planning was kicked off Spring 2018, it makes sense that Joker was released this Spring. Hero was first heard August 2018 and, lo and behold, he was released almost exactly a year later on the dot. Banjo's negotiations supposedly started around E3 2018 and was formally announced a year later. Again, it could be argued that there's a pattern here.

With this mapped out, what does this tell us? It means that the gap between the Fighter's Pass being finalized and Season 2 being green lit was probably 2 months AT MOST. In development time, that's incredibly short notice and kind of abrupt. This seems to suggest that Nintendo was so blown away by pre-orders for the Fighter's Pass that they greenlit more DLC very quickly (and also provides an explanation to why most character names have been heard since last year). This means that decisions about the Fighter's Pass didn't have time for extreme changes so Nintendo's approach was to just to subtract things instead of replace them. Geno and Chocobo were cut but not replaced in Pass 2, same with Heihachi in Pass 4. This actually adds some amazing fortitude to the Power of Six Theory and gives us even stronger clues about 5. I will continue these thoughts in my next post.

 

[Deleted member]

Off-topic, but they are adding a Link power-up to SMM2 that basically allows you to play as Link.

 

[Franco Geno]

A BIG shout-out to ForsakenM and his theories yesterday because it made me had multiple epiphanies (no, that's not a euphemism...) about my own theories and gave me new trains of thought to ride on. I'll split these thoughts into two main sections in two separate posts.

1. The Element of Time

When considering my own theories, I often ignored the importance of the element of time, especially when theorizing when certain decisions were made. Thanks to Sakurai, we know development on Ultimate started in late 2015, that DLC was decided Spring 2018, and that the plans for the Fighter's Pass were finalized late Fall 2018. Recently we discovered that plans for Season 2 were probably finalized around E3 2019 so that begs the question... When did Nintendo decide on additional DLC?

Thanks to ForsakenM 's theory, we have a strong hypothesis for this. Chances are it was decided shortly after the Fighter's Pass was announced, likely December or January. How do we know this? One big clue is that the 16 dummy slots for Smash Ultimate appeared in the game's code in January. This means that if Season 2 and possibly beyond was decided here, it was finalized around E3, about 6 1/2 months later. Why does this sound familiar? If Smash Ultimate's DLC was decided Spring 2018 but finalized early November 2018, this also a similar time gap: about 6 1/2 to 7 months. Very interesting coincidence.

This timeframe is further strengthened by what we know. Sakurai has said that characters take roughly 10 months to a year to develop from negotiation, to planning, to actual development, to the final product. If the Fighter's Pass planning was kicked off Spring 2018, it makes sense that Joker was released this Spring. Hero was first heard August 2018 and, lo and behold, he was released almost exactly a year later on the dot. Banjo's negotiations supposedly started around E3 2018 and was formally announced a year later. Again, it could be argued that there's a pattern here.

With this mapped out, what does this tell us? It means that the gap between the Fighter's Pass being finalized and Season 2 being green lit was probably 2 months AT MOST. In development time, that's incredibly short notice and kind of abrupt. This seems to suggest that Nintendo was so blown away by pre-orders for the Fighter's Pass that they greenlit more DLC very quickly (and also provides an explanation to why most character names have been heard since last year). This means that decisions about the Fighter's Pass didn't have time for extreme changes so Nintendo's approach was to just to subtract things instead of replace them. Geno and Chocobo were cut but not replaced in Pass 2, same with Heihachi in Pass 4. This actually adds some amazing fortitude to the Power of Six Theory and gives us even stronger clues about 5. I will continue these thoughts in my next post.

This makes a lot of sense and tbh it's always great to read your theories man, keep it up

 

[Spatulo]

A BIG shout-out to ForsakenM and his theories yesterday because it made me had multiple epiphanies (no, that's not a euphemism...) about my own theories and gave me new trains of thought to ride on. I'll split these thoughts into two main sections in two separate posts.

1. The Element of Time

When considering my own theories, I often ignored the importance of the element of time, especially when theorizing when certain decisions were made. Thanks to Sakurai, we know development on Ultimate started in late 2015, that DLC was decided Spring 2018, and that the plans for the Fighter's Pass were finalized late Fall 2018. Recently we discovered that plans for Season 2 were probably finalized around E3 2019 so that begs the question... When did Nintendo decide on additional DLC?

Thanks to ForsakenM 's theory, we have a strong hypothesis for this. Chances are it was decided shortly after the Fighter's Pass was announced, likely December or January. How do we know this? One big clue is that the 16 dummy slots for Smash Ultimate appeared in the game's code in January. This means that if Season 2 and possibly beyond was decided here, it was finalized around E3, about 6 1/2 months later. Why does this sound familiar? If Smash Ultimate's DLC was decided Spring 2018 but finalized early November 2018, this also a similar time gap: about 6 1/2 to 7 months. Very interesting coincidence.

This timeframe is further strengthened by what we know. Sakurai has said that characters take roughly 10 months to a year to develop from negotiation, to planning, to actual development, to the final product. If the Fighter's Pass planning was kicked off Spring 2018, it makes sense that Joker was released this Spring. Hero was first heard August 2018 and, lo and behold, he was released almost exactly a year later on the dot. Banjo's negotiations supposedly started around E3 2018 and was formally announced a year later. Again, it could be argued that there's a pattern here.

With this mapped out, what does this tell us? It means that the gap between the Fighter's Pass being finalized and Season 2 being green lit was probably 2 months AT MOST. In development time, that's incredibly short notice and kind of abrupt. This seems to suggest that Nintendo was so blown away by pre-orders for the Fighter's Pass that they greenlit more DLC very quickly (and also provides an explanation to why most character names have been heard since last year). This means that decisions about the Fighter's Pass didn't have time for extreme changes so Nintendo's approach was to just to subtract things instead of replace them. Geno and Chocobo were cut but not replaced in Pass 2, same with Heihachi in Pass 4. This actually adds some amazing fortitude to the Power of Six Theory and gives us even stronger clues about 5. I will continue these thoughts in my next post.

So, with the timing of the decisions for additional DLC in mind, given that those extra slots were added with Joker...

is it possible that Nintendo actually did green light two more Fighters Passes’ worth of characters?

 

[Franco Geno]

So, with the timing of the decisions for additional DLC in mind, given that those extra slots were added with Joker...

is it possible that Nintendo actually did green light two more Fighters Passes’ worth of characters?

With Geno being one of those mistery fighters? then we better prepare the champagne

 

[riggsbass]

Geno, or riot.

View attachment 249395

 

[Fatmanonice]

Now for a continuation of the previous post:

2. Returning to the Power of Six Theory

Now that we've established a timeline and have decent evidence that Season 2 was decided very soon after the planning of Season 1/the Fighter's Pass was finalized, it opens up some very interesting venues to explore. As a quick recap, the Power of Six Theory suggests that the original plan was for each Fighter's Pass to have 6 Mii costumes or hats and there's a lot of evidence to support this. Plans for Season 2 probably derailed a good number of these plans and caused "omissions" throughout the Fighter's Pass. Currently, we see this in Fighter's Pass 2-4. Let's break this down...

Joker:

Given the time line we explained earlier, Joker would have been virtually done by the time Season 2 had been decided. Strong evidence for this is that Joker was not only in the game's code at launch by the February Direct had a functional Joker model and, thanks to the NoA source, we know that Directs generally take a month to make at the very least with editing, translating, and post production. This means a functional Joker likely existed in January, again, around the time Season 2 was probably decided. Based on this, it makes sense that Joker is the only character so far with a full 6. He was pretty much done when Season 2 was decided so why change anything? 4 Persona and 2 Sonic Mii costumes. Moving on...

Hero:

Following the Power of Six Theory, it's very easy to see that Hero was missing two Mii costumes. Simple conclusion: the Chocobo Mii Hat and Geno were originally planned for Hero. Because of when Season 2 was decided, it can be theorized that they really didn't have time to negotiate, plan, and create replacements so they simply removed them. What's particularly interesting about this is that if Nintendo was already given permission and access to these assets, it stands to reason that they obviously weren't just "thrown away." That's stupid... Especially since they're third party and, let's face it, it's kind of a pain in the ass to get these sorts of things. That means that Nintendo still has Geno and Chocobo assets "in the vault" for future use. What could that future use be? Golly! Mystery upon mysteries! I have NO idea what what this could POSSIBLY suggest.

Snark aside, if this does mean that Geno's promotion is more than likely a-comin', Chocobo is kind of lonely, isn't it? Hats never come alone, they are always paired with something from the same company. What's the only other Square name heard among insiders? Sephiroth. Sephiroth Mii costume incoming, possibly with One Winged Angel attached? Food for thought.

Banjo:

Banjo's interesting. His Mii costumes are a hodgepodge of things. 2 Capcom, 1 Pokemon, 1 Konami, and a Sans Undertale. Weird... We're now just missing 1 for all full six but my theory is that there was another plan initially. My theory is that all the Megaman Mii costumes were originally planned for this pass because... "**** you, that's why," - Sakurai, probably. What makes me think this? When you look at all the Fighter's Pass, Mii costume additions from Smash 4 are overwhelmingly in even numbers. Tails and Knuckles for Joker. What would have been Geno and Chocobo for Hero. Banjo wound up being Protoman and Zero. Terry wound up getting Akira and Jacky. Let's continue this train of thought...

Megaman EXE and Megaman X are still MIA. Adding either to form a team of 3 would break the well established pattern we've seen of even numbers. Who in Banjo's pass seems really out of place? Surprisingly, it's not Sans... It's the Team Rocket Grunt! Not only is it the only second party Mii costume in the entire Fighter's Pass, it's the only Mii Fighter in this pass. Let's now make the argument that the Grunt was replacement for Megaman X or Exe. Plug both Megamen in and watch what happens: two swordsmen and four gunners. Once again, this is unusually balanced and seemingly deliberate. Unfortunately, all this evidence suggests that no other Microsoft were negotiated or considered and that Nintendo literally just negotiated for Banjo and some characters as cameos. This kind of adds even more evidence that Steve and Master Chief more than likely aren't "in the vault" at the moment.

Terry:

Terry seemingly has the smallest change of the previous two, just one Mii costume missing. Three SNK and two SEGA. Very strong fighting game theme. This sets a very strong precedent for who the omitted costume is. Dollars to donuts that it was Heihachi. Not a hard conclusion and further strengthened by how Banjo had Goemon, the lone Konami rep for Pass 3. Heihachi being the lone Namco rep for Pass 4 is perfectly acceptable and fits the overall theme like a glove.

Now, thanks to Forsaken's theory yesterday concerning time, we have established that Nintendo's choice was to overwhelmingly omit characters rather than renegotiate or plan for something else. This means that Heihachi also got thrown in the vault to use later. *Clink* This also tells something else I only just realized this morning, this hard establishes that Heihachi was never planned for #5. They have the assets but obviously there wasn't enough time to convert them into a full blown character. They had someone else in mind. Let's now move to number 5...

The Mysterious Number 5:

So now we've come to the end of journey. We've come to the conclusions that 1. there's very strong evidence that all the Smash 4 DLC costumes were meant to return and 2. these Mii costumes were never planned as playable for the Fighter's Pass. With this in mind, what do we have left that's not "in the vault?" Gil, Lloyd, and both Monster Hunter costumes. Interesting... Two Namco costumes... All have swords... Three have heavy armor... Hmmm... Interesting... Seems to be a theme... Who uses a sword and wears heavy armor... Hmmm, I say, hmmm, son, HMMMM....

Now, based on past patterns aside from Banjo, every pass has at least two Mii costumes from the series of their fighter. What does this tell us? It tells us that Nintendo that the chances of Heihachi, Lloyd, and Gil all being Mii costumes in #5 is incredibly small. If past patterns persist of even numbers of returning Smash 4 costumes, they will settle on two for Namco. Gil is most definitely one of them, leaving Heihachi and Lloyd.

My theory is that they plan to go with Heihachi. Why? Heihachi was already omitted once from a previous pass, appeared in the base game, and according to Sakurai caused a lot of problems trying to implement in Smash 4. Meanwhile, Sakurai's "review" of Lloyd was pretty glowing and suggested there was little debate of which Tales character he wanted to add if he ever got the chance. Based on this, Lloyd's going "in the vault" and Heihachi is in Pass 5.

This is what Pass 5 now looks like: two mysterious costumes from the same series, 2 Namco, and 2 Monster Hunter. Even Steven and following patterns of the previous passes. Now, this is a lot to take in. If you take these new conclusions and plug them into my old conclusions, it makes the argument for Fighter 5 being a Namco character even stronger and especially fortifies the argument that the character is from Soul Caliber, particularly Nightmare. Why? Even if we swap out Lloyd for Heihachi, it still thematically makes sense because Heihachi is not only a Namco fighting game character too but even was a guest fighter in Soul Caliber 2! Jesus! It fits together so damn perfect that it's absurd!

Conclusion:

Based on this exhausting review, we come to some very important conclusions. Because of the time frames of everything, "cut" content was probably just put in the vault for future use because it's 1. third party and had to be negotiated for and 2. were original parts of the Fighter's Pass initial draft! Again, if the Fighter's Pass was originally final, I've highlighted how it was mapped out to bring back every missing third party costume in tow to balance every pass to a perfect 6 Mii costumes per pass. With things being jumbled, assets got put in the vault to be used later and those assets are: Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Megaman EXE, and Megaman X. Square, Namco, and Capcom. All supported by the Power of Six Theory and insider intel that more Square, Namco, and Capcom characters were heavily rumored and seemingly on the way! Eu-****ing-reka! Hallelujah! Holy ****... I'm actually sweating... As always, this is just my own speculation but damn was this fun to write out.

 

[OffBi]

Now for a continuation of the previous post:

2. Returning to the Power of Six Theory

Now that we've established a timeline and have decent evidence that Season 2 was decided very soon after the planning of Season 1/the Fighter's Pass was finalized, it opens up some very interesting venues to explore. As a quick recap, the Power of Six Theory suggests that the original plan was for each Fighter's Pass to have 6 Mii costumes or hats and there's a lot of evidence to support this. Plans for Season 2 probably derailed a good number of these plans and caused "omissions" throughout the Fighter's Pass. Currently, we see this in Fighter's Pass 2-4. Let's break this down...

Joker:

Given the time line we explained earlier, Joker would have been virtually done by the time Season 2 had been decided. Strong evidence for this is that Joker was not only in the game's code at launch by the February Direct had a functional Joker model and, thanks to the NoA source, we know that Directs generally take a month to make at the very least with editing, translating, and post production. This means a functional Joker likely existed in January, again, around the time Season 2 was probably decided. Based on this, it makes sense that Joker is the only character so far with a full 6. He was pretty much done when Season 2 was decided so why change anything? 4 Persona and 2 Sonic Mii costumes. Moving on...

Hero:

Following the Power of Six Theory, it's very easy to see that Hero was missing two Mii costumes. Simple conclusion: the Chocobo Mii Hat and Geno were originally planned for Hero. Because of when Season 2 was decided, it can be theorized that they really didn't have time to negotiate, plan, and create replacements so they simply removed them. What's particularly interesting about this is that if Nintendo was already given permission and access to these assets, it stands to reason that they obviously weren't just "thrown away." That's stupid... Especially since they're third party and, let's face it, it's kind of a pain in the ass to get these sorts of things. That means that Nintendo still has Geno and Chocobo assets "in the vault" for future use. What could that future use be? Golly! Mystery upon mysteries! I have NO idea what what this could POSSIBLY suggest.

Snark aside, if this does mean that Geno's promotion is more than likely a-comin', Chocobo is kind of lonely, isn't it? Hats never come alone, they are always paired with something from the same company. What's the only other Square name heard among insiders? Sephiroth. Sephiroth Mii costume incoming, possibly with One Winged Angel attached? Food for thought.

Banjo:

Banjo's interesting. His Mii costumes are a hodgepodge of things. 2 Capcom, 1 Pokemon, 1 Konami, and a Sans Undertale. Weird... We're now just missing 1 for all full six but my theory is that there was another plan initially. My theory is that all the Megaman Mii costumes were originally planned for this pass because... "**** you, that's why," - Sakurai, probably. What makes me think this? When you look at all the Fighter's Pass, Mii costume additions from Smash 4 are overwhelmingly in even numbers. Tails and Knuckles for Joker. What would have been Geno and Chocobo for Hero. Banjo wound up being Protoman and Zero. Terry wound up getting Akira and Jacky. Let's continue this train of thought...

Megaman EXE and Megaman X are still MIA. Adding either to form a team of 3 would break the well established pattern we've seen of even numbers. Who in Banjo's pass seems really out of place? Surprisingly, it's not Sans... It's the Team Rocket Grunt! Not only is it the only second party Mii costume in the entire Fighter's Pass, it's the only Mii Fighter in this pass. Let's now make the argument that the Grunt was replacement for Megaman X or Exe. Plug both Megamen in and watch what happens: two swordsmen and four gunners. Once again, this is unusually balanced and seemingly deliberate. Unfortunately, all this evidence suggests that no other Microsoft were negotiated or considered and that Nintendo literally just negotiated for Banjo and some characters as cameos. This kind of adds even more evidence that Steve and Master Chief more than likely aren't "in the vault" at the moment.

Terry:

Terry seemingly has the smallest change of the previous two, just one Mii costume missing. Three SNK and two SEGA. Very strong fighting game theme. This sets a very strong precedent for who the omitted costume is. Dollars to donuts that it was Heihachi. Not a hard conclusion and further strengthened by how Banjo had Goemon, the lone Konami rep for Pass 3. Heihachi being the lone Namco rep for Pass 4 is perfectly acceptable and fits the overall theme like a glove.

Now, thanks to Forsaken's theory yesterday concerning time, we have established that Nintendo's choice was to overwhelmingly omit characters rather than renegotiate or plan for something else. This means that Heihachi also got thrown in the vault to use later. *Clink* This also tells something else I only just realized this morning, this hard establishes that Heihachi was never planned for #5. They have the assets but obviously there wasn't enough time to convert them into a full blown character. They had someone else in mind. Let's now move to number 5...

The Mysterious Number 5:

So now we've come to the end of journey. We've come to the conclusions that 1. there's very strong evidence that all the Smash 4 DLC costumes were meant to return and 2. these Mii costumes were never planned as playable for the Fighter's Pass. With this in mind, what do we have left that's not "in the vault?" Gil, Lloyd, and both Monster Hunter costumes. Interesting... Two Namco costumes... All have swords... Three have heavy armor... Hmmm... Interesting... Seems to be a theme... Who uses a sword and wears heavy armor... Hmmm, I say, hmmm, son, HMMMM....

Now, based on past patterns aside from Banjo, every pass has at least two Mii costumes from the series of their fighter. What does this tell us? It tells us that Nintendo that the chances of Heihachi, Lloyd, and Gil all being Mii costumes in #5 is incredibly small. If past patterns persist of even numbers of returning Smash 4 costumes, they will settle on two for Namco. Gil is most definitely one of them, leaving Heihachi and Lloyd.

My theory is that they plan to go with Heihachi. Why? Heihachi was already omitted once from a previous pass, appeared in the base game, and according to Sakurai caused a lot of problems trying to implement in Smash 4. Meanwhile, Sakurai's "review" of Lloyd was pretty glowing and suggested there was little debate of which Tales character he wanted to add if he ever got the chance. Based on this, Lloyd's going "in the vault" and Heihachi is in Pass 5.

This is what Pass 5 now looks like: two mysterious costumes from the same series, 2 Namco, and 2 Monster Hunter. Even Steven and following patterns of the previous passes. Now, this is a lot to take in. If you take these new conclusions and plug them into my old conclusions, it makes the argument for Fighter 5 being a Namco character even stronger and especially fortifies the argument that the character is from Soul Caliber, particularly Nightmare. Why? Even if we swap out Lloyd for Heihachi, it still thematically makes sense because Heihachi is not only a Namco fighting game character too but even was a guest fighter in Soul Caliber 2! Jesus! It fits together so damn perfect that it's absurd!

Conclusion:

Based on this exhausting review, we come to some very important conclusions. Because of the time frames of everything, "cut" content was probably just put in the vault for future use because it's 1. third party and had to be negotiated for and 2. were original parts of the Fighter's Pass initial draft! Again, if the Fighter's Pass was originally final, I've highlighted how it was mapped out to bring back every missing third party costume in tow to balance every pass to a perfect 6 Mii costumes per pass. With things being jumbled, assets got put in the vault to be used later and those assets are: Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Megaman EXE, and Megaman X. Square, Namco, and Capcom. All supported by the Power of Six Theory and insider intel that more Square, Namco, and Capcom characters were heavily rumored and seemingly on the way! Eu-****ing-reka! Hallelujah! Holy ****... I'm actually sweating... As always, this is just my own speculation but damn was this fun to write out.

So... Does that mean that nightmare was swapped with another fighter?

 

[Fatmanonice]

So... Does that mean that nightmare was swapped with another fighter?

No. It means that Number 5 probably is Nightmare or at the very least Soul Caliber or at the very least still Namco.

 

[Spatulo]

Now for a continuation of the previous post:

2. Returning to the Power of Six Theory

Now that we've established a timeline and have decent evidence that Season 2 was decided very soon after the planning of Season 1/the Fighter's Pass was finalized, it opens up some very interesting venues to explore. As a quick recap, the Power of Six Theory suggests that the original plan was for each Fighter's Pass to have 6 Mii costumes or hats and there's a lot of evidence to support this. Plans for Season 2 probably derailed a good number of these plans and caused "omissions" throughout the Fighter's Pass. Currently, we see this in Fighter's Pass 2-4. Let's break this down...

Joker:

Given the time line we explained earlier, Joker would have been virtually done by the time Season 2 had been decided. Strong evidence for this is that Joker was not only in the game's code at launch by the February Direct had a functional Joker model and, thanks to the NoA source, we know that Directs generally take a month to make at the very least with editing, translating, and post production. This means a functional Joker likely existed in January, again, around the time Season 2 was probably decided. Based on this, it makes sense that Joker is the only character so far with a full 6. He was pretty much done when Season 2 was decided so why change anything? 4 Persona and 2 Sonic Mii costumes. Moving on...

Hero:

Following the Power of Six Theory, it's very easy to see that Hero was missing two Mii costumes. Simple conclusion: the Chocobo Mii Hat and Geno were originally planned for Hero. Because of when Season 2 was decided, it can be theorized that they really didn't have time to negotiate, plan, and create replacements so they simply removed them. What's particularly interesting about this is that if Nintendo was already given permission and access to these assets, it stands to reason that they obviously weren't just "thrown away." That's stupid... Especially since they're third party and, let's face it, it's kind of a pain in the ass to get these sorts of things. That means that Nintendo still has Geno and Chocobo assets "in the vault" for future use. What could that future use be? Golly! Mystery upon mysteries! I have NO idea what what this could POSSIBLY suggest.

Snark aside, if this does mean that Geno's promotion is more than likely a-comin', Chocobo is kind of lonely, isn't it? Hats never come alone, they are always paired with something from the same company. What's the only other Square name heard among insiders? Sephiroth. Sephiroth Mii costume incoming, possibly with One Winged Angel attached? Food for thought.

Banjo:

Banjo's interesting. His Mii costumes are a hodgepodge of things. 2 Capcom, 1 Pokemon, 1 Konami, and a Sans Undertale. Weird... We're now just missing 1 for all full six but my theory is that there was another plan initially. My theory is that all the Megaman Mii costumes were originally planned for this pass because... "**** you, that's why," - Sakurai, probably. What makes me think this? When you look at all the Fighter's Pass, Mii costume additions from Smash 4 are overwhelmingly in even numbers. Tails and Knuckles for Joker. What would have been Geno and Chocobo for Hero. Banjo wound up being Protoman and Zero. Terry wound up getting Akira and Jacky. Let's continue this train of thought...

Megaman EXE and Megaman X are still MIA. Adding either to form a team of 3 would break the well established pattern we've seen of even numbers. Who in Banjo's pass seems really out of place? Surprisingly, it's not Sans... It's the Team Rocket Grunt! Not only is it the only second party Mii costume in the entire Fighter's Pass, it's the only Mii Fighter in this pass. Let's now make the argument that the Grunt was replacement for Megaman X or Exe. Plug both Megamen in and watch what happens: two swordsmen and four gunners. Once again, this is unusually balanced and seemingly deliberate. Unfortunately, all this evidence suggests that no other Microsoft were negotiated or considered and that Nintendo literally just negotiated for Banjo and some characters as cameos. This kind of adds even more evidence that Steve and Master Chief more than likely aren't "in the vault" at the moment.

Terry:

Terry seemingly has the smallest change of the previous two, just one Mii costume missing. Three SNK and two SEGA. Very strong fighting game theme. This sets a very strong precedent for who the omitted costume is. Dollars to donuts that it was Heihachi. Not a hard conclusion and further strengthened by how Banjo had Goemon, the lone Konami rep for Pass 3. Heihachi being the lone Namco rep for Pass 4 is perfectly acceptable and fits the overall theme like a glove.

Now, thanks to Forsaken's theory yesterday concerning time, we have established that Nintendo's choice was to overwhelmingly omit characters rather than renegotiate or plan for something else. This means that Heihachi also got thrown in the vault to use later. *Clink* This also tells something else I only just realized this morning, this hard establishes that Heihachi was never planned for #5. They have the assets but obviously there wasn't enough time to convert them into a full blown character. They had someone else in mind. Let's now move to number 5...

The Mysterious Number 5:

So now we've come to the end of journey. We've come to the conclusions that 1. there's very strong evidence that all the Smash 4 DLC costumes were meant to return and 2. these Mii costumes were never planned as playable for the Fighter's Pass. With this in mind, what do we have left that's not "in the vault?" Gil, Lloyd, and both Monster Hunter costumes. Interesting... Two Namco costumes... All have swords... Three have heavy armor... Hmmm... Interesting... Seems to be a theme... Who uses a sword and wears heavy armor... Hmmm, I say, hmmm, son, HMMMM....

Now, based on past patterns aside from Banjo, every pass has at least two Mii costumes from the series of their fighter. What does this tell us? It tells us that Nintendo that the chances of Heihachi, Lloyd, and Gil all being Mii costumes in #5 is incredibly small. If past patterns persist of even numbers of returning Smash 4 costumes, they will settle on two for Namco. Gil is most definitely one of them, leaving Heihachi and Lloyd.

My theory is that they plan to go with Heihachi. Why? Heihachi was already omitted once from a previous pass, appeared in the base game, and according to Sakurai caused a lot of problems trying to implement in Smash 4. Meanwhile, Sakurai's "review" of Lloyd was pretty glowing and suggested there was little debate of which Tales character he wanted to add if he ever got the chance. Based on this, Lloyd's going "in the vault" and Heihachi is in Pass 5.

This is what Pass 5 now looks like: two mysterious costumes from the same series, 2 Namco, and 2 Monster Hunter. Even Steven and following patterns of the previous passes. Now, this is a lot to take in. If you take these new conclusions and plug them into my old conclusions, it makes the argument for Fighter 5 being a Namco character even stronger and especially fortifies the argument that the character is from Soul Caliber, particularly Nightmare. Why? Even if we swap out Lloyd for Heihachi, it still thematically makes sense because Heihachi is not only a Namco fighting game character too but even was a guest fighter in Soul Caliber 2! Jesus! It fits together so damn perfect that it's absurd!

Conclusion:

Based on this exhausting review, we come to some very important conclusions. Because of the time frames of everything, "cut" content was probably just put in the vault for future use because it's 1. third party and had to be negotiated for and 2. were original parts of the Fighter's Pass initial draft! Again, if the Fighter's Pass was originally final, I've highlighted how it was mapped out to bring back every missing third party costume in tow to balance every pass to a perfect 6 Mii costumes per pass. With things being jumbled, assets got put in the vault to be used later and those assets are: Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Megaman EXE, and Megaman X. Square, Namco, and Capcom. All supported by the Power of Six Theory and insider intel that more Square, Namco, and Capcom characters were heavily rumored and seemingly on the way! Eu-****ing-reka! Hallelujah! Holy ****... I'm actually sweating... As always, this is just my own speculation but damn was this fun to write out.

Lloyd also cameo’d in a Soul Calibur game so him being planned to come with Nightmare makes perfect sense. So it just comes down to whether or not Verge is right about 5 not being Bamco and that seems... iffy to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Lloyd also cameo’d in a Soul Calibur game so him being planned to come with Nightmare makes perfect sense. So it just comes down to whether or not Verge is right about 5 not being Bamco and that seems... iffy to me.

I still need to play the Soul Calibur games.

 

[Deleted member]

So, with the timing of the decisions for additional DLC in mind, given that those extra slots were added with Joker...

is it possible that Nintendo actually did green light two more Fighters Passes’ worth of characters?

I think after Joker came out, or maybe a little before, GimR mentioned in one of his videos about how Nintendo mentioned plans to support the Switch for the long haul... Which honestly, they say about every console, it feels like. Typically we get 4 to 5 years of use out of a console before they're starting to murmur about the next console generation, but Nintendo did effectively kill their handheld line with this console, and filed a patent shortly before the Switch's official announcement for a dock of sorts that adds processing power. This is a weird place to discuss console release theories, but the Switch could very well be a long-living console. We already have the version that can't dock, the handheld replacement... so when's the version, or maybe just the games that require you to stay docked?

Either way, Smash prints money, which is why I have a hard time believing that they didn't have DLC wave 2 planned in the rafters long before we think they did - there's no way you're not going to make loads of money on it. When Ultimate was #1 on Amazon's best selling list within like 2 hours, they probably said "oh yeah, we're making more DLC". With how they supported Splatoon 2 for absolutely free for two years? What's stopping them from supporting Smash for pay for way longer? I know they're noticing how long stuff like FighterZ or Street Fighter 5 has had DLC support, and there's no way that they aren't aware Smash is their biggest e-sports title. What's funny is how the titles they designed specifically for an e-sports environment kind of fall flat... They'll officially call it quits on Smash when a wave of DLC doesn't meet the quota to pay for the next one, I'd say.

Now for a continuation of the previous post:

2. Returning to the Power of Six Theory

Now that we've established a timeline and have decent evidence that Season 2 was decided very soon after the planning of Season 1/the Fighter's Pass was finalized, it opens up some very interesting venues to explore. As a quick recap, the Power of Six Theory suggests that the original plan was for each Fighter's Pass to have 6 Mii costumes or hats and there's a lot of evidence to support this. Plans for Season 2 probably derailed a good number of these plans and caused "omissions" throughout the Fighter's Pass. Currently, we see this in Fighter's Pass 2-4. Let's break this down...

Joker:

Given the time line we explained earlier, Joker would have been virtually done by the time Season 2 had been decided. Strong evidence for this is that Joker was not only in the game's code at launch by the February Direct had a functional Joker model and, thanks to the NoA source, we know that Directs generally take a month to make at the very least with editing, translating, and post production. This means a functional Joker likely existed in January, again, around the time Season 2 was probably decided. Based on this, it makes sense that Joker is the only character so far with a full 6. He was pretty much done when Season 2 was decided so why change anything? 4 Persona and 2 Sonic Mii costumes. Moving on...

Hero:

Following the Power of Six Theory, it's very easy to see that Hero was missing two Mii costumes. Simple conclusion: the Chocobo Mii Hat and Geno were originally planned for Hero. Because of when Season 2 was decided, it can be theorized that they really didn't have time to negotiate, plan, and create replacements so they simply removed them. What's particularly interesting about this is that if Nintendo was already given permission and access to these assets, it stands to reason that they obviously weren't just "thrown away." That's stupid... Especially since they're third party and, let's face it, it's kind of a pain in the ass to get these sorts of things. That means that Nintendo still has Geno and Chocobo assets "in the vault" for future use. What could that future use be? Golly! Mystery upon mysteries! I have NO idea what what this could POSSIBLY suggest.

Snark aside, if this does mean that Geno's promotion is more than likely a-comin', Chocobo is kind of lonely, isn't it? Hats never come alone, they are always paired with something from the same company. What's the only other Square name heard among insiders? Sephiroth. Sephiroth Mii costume incoming, possibly with One Winged Angel attached? Food for thought.

Banjo:

Banjo's interesting. His Mii costumes are a hodgepodge of things. 2 Capcom, 1 Pokemon, 1 Konami, and a Sans Undertale. Weird... We're now just missing 1 for all full six but my theory is that there was another plan initially. My theory is that all the Megaman Mii costumes were originally planned for this pass because... "**** you, that's why," - Sakurai, probably. What makes me think this? When you look at all the Fighter's Pass, Mii costume additions from Smash 4 are overwhelmingly in even numbers. Tails and Knuckles for Joker. What would have been Geno and Chocobo for Hero. Banjo wound up being Protoman and Zero. Terry wound up getting Akira and Jacky. Let's continue this train of thought...

Megaman EXE and Megaman X are still MIA. Adding either to form a team of 3 would break the well established pattern we've seen of even numbers. Who in Banjo's pass seems really out of place? Surprisingly, it's not Sans... It's the Team Rocket Grunt! Not only is it the only second party Mii costume in the entire Fighter's Pass, it's the only Mii Fighter in this pass. Let's now make the argument that the Grunt was replacement for Megaman X or Exe. Plug both Megamen in and watch what happens: two swordsmen and four gunners. Once again, this is unusually balanced and seemingly deliberate. Unfortunately, all this evidence suggests that no other Microsoft were negotiated or considered and that Nintendo literally just negotiated for Banjo and some characters as cameos. This kind of adds even more evidence that Steve and Master Chief more than likely aren't "in the vault" at the moment.

Terry:

Terry seemingly has the smallest change of the previous two, just one Mii costume missing. Three SNK and two SEGA. Very strong fighting game theme. This sets a very strong precedent for who the omitted costume is. Dollars to donuts that it was Heihachi. Not a hard conclusion and further strengthened by how Banjo had Goemon, the lone Konami rep for Pass 3. Heihachi being the lone Namco rep for Pass 4 is perfectly acceptable and fits the overall theme like a glove.

Now, thanks to Forsaken's theory yesterday concerning time, we have established that Nintendo's choice was to overwhelmingly omit characters rather than renegotiate or plan for something else. This means that Heihachi also got thrown in the vault to use later. *Clink* This also tells something else I only just realized this morning, this hard establishes that Heihachi was never planned for #5. They have the assets but obviously there wasn't enough time to convert them into a full blown character. They had someone else in mind. Let's now move to number 5...

The Mysterious Number 5:

So now we've come to the end of journey. We've come to the conclusions that 1. there's very strong evidence that all the Smash 4 DLC costumes were meant to return and 2. these Mii costumes were never planned as playable for the Fighter's Pass. With this in mind, what do we have left that's not "in the vault?" Gil, Lloyd, and both Monster Hunter costumes. Interesting... Two Namco costumes... All have swords... Three have heavy armor... Hmmm... Interesting... Seems to be a theme... Who uses a sword and wears heavy armor... Hmmm, I say, hmmm, son, HMMMM....

Now, based on past patterns aside from Banjo, every pass has at least two Mii costumes from the series of their fighter. What does this tell us? It tells us that Nintendo that the chances of Heihachi, Lloyd, and Gil all being Mii costumes in #5 is incredibly small. If past patterns persist of even numbers of returning Smash 4 costumes, they will settle on two for Namco. Gil is most definitely one of them, leaving Heihachi and Lloyd.

My theory is that they plan to go with Heihachi. Why? Heihachi was already omitted once from a previous pass, appeared in the base game, and according to Sakurai caused a lot of problems trying to implement in Smash 4. Meanwhile, Sakurai's "review" of Lloyd was pretty glowing and suggested there was little debate of which Tales character he wanted to add if he ever got the chance. Based on this, Lloyd's going "in the vault" and Heihachi is in Pass 5.

This is what Pass 5 now looks like: two mysterious costumes from the same series, 2 Namco, and 2 Monster Hunter. Even Steven and following patterns of the previous passes. Now, this is a lot to take in. If you take these new conclusions and plug them into my old conclusions, it makes the argument for Fighter 5 being a Namco character even stronger and especially fortifies the argument that the character is from Soul Caliber, particularly Nightmare. Why? Even if we swap out Lloyd for Heihachi, it still thematically makes sense because Heihachi is not only a Namco fighting game character too but even was a guest fighter in Soul Caliber 2! Jesus! It fits together so damn perfect that it's absurd!

Conclusion:

Based on this exhausting review, we come to some very important conclusions. Because of the time frames of everything, "cut" content was probably just put in the vault for future use because it's 1. third party and had to be negotiated for and 2. were original parts of the Fighter's Pass initial draft! Again, if the Fighter's Pass was originally final, I've highlighted how it was mapped out to bring back every missing third party costume in tow to balance every pass to a perfect 6 Mii costumes per pass. With things being jumbled, assets got put in the vault to be used later and those assets are: Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Megaman EXE, and Megaman X. Square, Namco, and Capcom. All supported by the Power of Six Theory and insider intel that more Square, Namco, and Capcom characters were heavily rumored and seemingly on the way! Eu-****ing-reka! Hallelujah! Holy ****... I'm actually sweating... As always, this is just my own speculation but damn was this fun to write out.

Banjo's pretty much my big hang up on power of 6... You think that Rocket Grunt is this outlier, but where else were they going to fit in? It's been two returning costumes with each challenger pack, so I just don't see Banjo randomly being the only one in which not only do 4 costumes return, but they're all Mega Man.

As a Mega Man fan myself, there's an awful lot of murmuring about Battle Network making a comeback, and these murmurings have been going on since before Ultimate released. I'm not saying that EXE is getting the upgrade, but I am saying that there might be a business decision on Capcom's end keeping at least that one out.

If there's a balance to be struck in Mii costumes, I'd say that either Banjo was missing another Brawler, or a hat by itself, which every pack has had except Terry. I can't immediately think of any fist fighters that were fan-favorites who would be considered DLC wave 2 worthy, though.

 

[Deleted member]

I dig these Fatman theories, ngl.

 

[Spatulo]

Mfw I realize that the only traditional fighting games with ring outs like Smash are Fatal Fury and Soul Calibur

I still need to play the Soul Calibur games.

You totally should! They’re honestly a lot easier to get into than most “traditional” fighters, they do have combos but it’s less of a big deal than in, say, Marvel vs Capcom. I’d recommend either 2 (it has Link!) or 4 (it has Yoda and Darth Vader)

 

[Deleted member]

Mfw I realize that the only traditional fighting games with ring outs like Smash are Fatal Fury and Soul Calibur

You totally should! They’re honestly a lot easier to get into than most “traditional” fighters, they do have combos but it’s less of a big deal than in, say, Marvel vs Capcom. I’d recommend either 2 (it has Link!) or 4 (it has Yoda and Darth Vader)

I really want to try SC4.

 

[Deleted member]

Mfw I realize that the only traditional fighting games with ring outs like Smash are Fatal Fury and Soul Calibur

You totally should! They’re honestly a lot easier to get into than most “traditional” fighters, they do have combos but it’s less of a big deal than in, say, Marvel vs Capcom. I’d recommend either 2 (it has Link!) or 4 (it has Yoda and Darth Vader)

It's not as popular as Soul Calibur, but Virtua Fighter has Ring Out mechanics too. I wouldn't put too much stock into that realization.

 

[Spatulo]

It's not as popular as Soul Calibur, but Virtua Fighter has Ring Out mechanics too. I wouldn't put too much stock into that realization.

When I said that I had a feeling I was gonna end up being wrong lol. In my defense I think I may have played Virtua Fighter between 0 and 1 times.

 

[castinets98]

Now for a continuation of the previous post:


Now, based on past patterns aside from Banjo, every pass has at least two Mii costumes from the series of their fighter. What does this tell us? It tells us that Nintendo that the chances of Heihachi, Lloyd, and Gil all being Mii costumes in #5 is incredibly small. If past patterns persist of even numbers of returning Smash 4 costumes, they will settle on two for Namco. Gil is most definitely one of them, leaving Heihachi and Lloyd.

Here's where the rubber meets the road: I could be just as easily convinced that all 3 were potentially planned to make this pass, with heihachi staying with terry and gil and lloyd attaching to fighter 5, but that all 3 were cut and saved to be packaged with lloyd when he is upgraded sometime next year. I understand this deviates from the pattern but I just don't buy two namco reps in dlc.

 

[Deleted member]

I will surely play Virtua Fighter 2 when I get the Mega Drive Mini.

 

[Deleted member]

When I said that I had a feeling I was gonna end up being wrong lol. In my defense I think I may have played Virtua Fighter between 0 and 1 times.

Traditional fighters bleed together to me to the point that I was originally going to say Tekken has ring outs, too, which it apparently never has. I was thinking about Virtua Fighter the entire time and had to look it up to be sure.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Now for a continuation of the previous post:

2. Returning to the Power of Six Theory

Now that we've established a timeline and have decent evidence that Season 2 was decided very soon after the planning of Season 1/the Fighter's Pass was finalized, it opens up some very interesting venues to explore. As a quick recap, the Power of Six Theory suggests that the original plan was for each Fighter's Pass to have 6 Mii costumes or hats and there's a lot of evidence to support this. Plans for Season 2 probably derailed a good number of these plans and caused "omissions" throughout the Fighter's Pass. Currently, we see this in Fighter's Pass 2-4. Let's break this down...

Joker:

Given the time line we explained earlier, Joker would have been virtually done by the time Season 2 had been decided. Strong evidence for this is that Joker was not only in the game's code at launch by the February Direct had a functional Joker model and, thanks to the NoA source, we know that Directs generally take a month to make at the very least with editing, translating, and post production. This means a functional Joker likely existed in January, again, around the time Season 2 was probably decided. Based on this, it makes sense that Joker is the only character so far with a full 6. He was pretty much done when Season 2 was decided so why change anything? 4 Persona and 2 Sonic Mii costumes. Moving on...

Hero:

Following the Power of Six Theory, it's very easy to see that Hero was missing two Mii costumes. Simple conclusion: the Chocobo Mii Hat and Geno were originally planned for Hero. Because of when Season 2 was decided, it can be theorized that they really didn't have time to negotiate, plan, and create replacements so they simply removed them. What's particularly interesting about this is that if Nintendo was already given permission and access to these assets, it stands to reason that they obviously weren't just "thrown away." That's stupid... Especially since they're third party and, let's face it, it's kind of a pain in the ass to get these sorts of things. That means that Nintendo still has Geno and Chocobo assets "in the vault" for future use. What could that future use be? Golly! Mystery upon mysteries! I have NO idea what what this could POSSIBLY suggest.

Snark aside, if this does mean that Geno's promotion is more than likely a-comin', Chocobo is kind of lonely, isn't it? Hats never come alone, they are always paired with something from the same company. What's the only other Square name heard among insiders? Sephiroth. Sephiroth Mii costume incoming, possibly with One Winged Angel attached? Food for thought.

Banjo:

Banjo's interesting. His Mii costumes are a hodgepodge of things. 2 Capcom, 1 Pokemon, 1 Konami, and a Sans Undertale. Weird... We're now just missing 1 for all full six but my theory is that there was another plan initially. My theory is that all the Megaman Mii costumes were originally planned for this pass because... "**** you, that's why," - Sakurai, probably. What makes me think this? When you look at all the Fighter's Pass, Mii costume additions from Smash 4 are overwhelmingly in even numbers. Tails and Knuckles for Joker. What would have been Geno and Chocobo for Hero. Banjo wound up being Protoman and Zero. Terry wound up getting Akira and Jacky. Let's continue this train of thought...

Megaman EXE and Megaman X are still MIA. Adding either to form a team of 3 would break the well established pattern we've seen of even numbers. Who in Banjo's pass seems really out of place? Surprisingly, it's not Sans... It's the Team Rocket Grunt! Not only is it the only second party Mii costume in the entire Fighter's Pass, it's the only Mii Fighter in this pass. Let's now make the argument that the Grunt was replacement for Megaman X or Exe. Plug both Megamen in and watch what happens: two swordsmen and four gunners. Once again, this is unusually balanced and seemingly deliberate. Unfortunately, all this evidence suggests that no other Microsoft were negotiated or considered and that Nintendo literally just negotiated for Banjo and some characters as cameos. This kind of adds even more evidence that Steve and Master Chief more than likely aren't "in the vault" at the moment.

Terry:

Terry seemingly has the smallest change of the previous two, just one Mii costume missing. Three SNK and two SEGA. Very strong fighting game theme. This sets a very strong precedent for who the omitted costume is. Dollars to donuts that it was Heihachi. Not a hard conclusion and further strengthened by how Banjo had Goemon, the lone Konami rep for Pass 3. Heihachi being the lone Namco rep for Pass 4 is perfectly acceptable and fits the overall theme like a glove.

Now, thanks to Forsaken's theory yesterday concerning time, we have established that Nintendo's choice was to overwhelmingly omit characters rather than renegotiate or plan for something else. This means that Heihachi also got thrown in the vault to use later. *Clink* This also tells something else I only just realized this morning, this hard establishes that Heihachi was never planned for #5. They have the assets but obviously there wasn't enough time to convert them into a full blown character. They had someone else in mind. Let's now move to number 5...

The Mysterious Number 5:

So now we've come to the end of journey. We've come to the conclusions that 1. there's very strong evidence that all the Smash 4 DLC costumes were meant to return and 2. these Mii costumes were never planned as playable for the Fighter's Pass. With this in mind, what do we have left that's not "in the vault?" Gil, Lloyd, and both Monster Hunter costumes. Interesting... Two Namco costumes... All have swords... Three have heavy armor... Hmmm... Interesting... Seems to be a theme... Who uses a sword and wears heavy armor... Hmmm, I say, hmmm, son, HMMMM....

Now, based on past patterns aside from Banjo, every pass has at least two Mii costumes from the series of their fighter. What does this tell us? It tells us that Nintendo that the chances of Heihachi, Lloyd, and Gil all being Mii costumes in #5 is incredibly small. If past patterns persist of even numbers of returning Smash 4 costumes, they will settle on two for Namco. Gil is most definitely one of them, leaving Heihachi and Lloyd.

My theory is that they plan to go with Heihachi. Why? Heihachi was already omitted once from a previous pass, appeared in the base game, and according to Sakurai caused a lot of problems trying to implement in Smash 4. Meanwhile, Sakurai's "review" of Lloyd was pretty glowing and suggested there was little debate of which Tales character he wanted to add if he ever got the chance. Based on this, Lloyd's going "in the vault" and Heihachi is in Pass 5.

This is what Pass 5 now looks like: two mysterious costumes from the same series, 2 Namco, and 2 Monster Hunter. Even Steven and following patterns of the previous passes. Now, this is a lot to take in. If you take these new conclusions and plug them into my old conclusions, it makes the argument for Fighter 5 being a Namco character even stronger and especially fortifies the argument that the character is from Soul Caliber, particularly Nightmare. Why? Even if we swap out Lloyd for Heihachi, it still thematically makes sense because Heihachi is not only a Namco fighting game character too but even was a guest fighter in Soul Caliber 2! Jesus! It fits together so damn perfect that it's absurd!

Conclusion:

Based on this exhausting review, we come to some very important conclusions. Because of the time frames of everything, "cut" content was probably just put in the vault for future use because it's 1. third party and had to be negotiated for and 2. were original parts of the Fighter's Pass initial draft! Again, if the Fighter's Pass was originally final, I've highlighted how it was mapped out to bring back every missing third party costume in tow to balance every pass to a perfect 6 Mii costumes per pass. With things being jumbled, assets got put in the vault to be used later and those assets are: Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Megaman EXE, and Megaman X. Square, Namco, and Capcom. All supported by the Power of Six Theory and insider intel that more Square, Namco, and Capcom characters were heavily rumored and seemingly on the way! Eu-****ing-reka! Hallelujah! Holy ****... I'm actually sweating... As always, this is just my own speculation but damn was this fun to write out.

A great read, very clear. I never thought about how so many of the missing mii costumes were “heavy armor” types. That’s certainly a hell of a coincidence if it doesn’t mean anything. Geno and Lloyd fans have to be feeling really good right now, as they’re arguably the “safest” for popular post pass DLC. Only other character that comes close is Ryu but that’s only because he’s been heard by everyone and even then, his name came up kind of late to expect him coming soon.

 

[Deleted member]

A great read, very clear. I never thought about how so many of the missing mii costumes were “heavy armor” types. That’s certainly a hell of a coincidence if it doesn’t mean anything. Geno and Lloyd fans have to be feeling really good right now, as they’re arguably the “safest” for popular post pass DLC. Only other character that comes close is Ryu but that’s only because he’s been heard by everyone and even then, his name came up kind of late to expect him coming soon.

I sadly still can’t decide on specific picks for the left DLC.

But Geno does make quite a lot of sense, yes.

 

[Firox]

OK, boys and girls, if nightmare ends up as fighter #5, what would his move set be like? I'm having a hard time imagining his specials

 

[Deleted member]

OK, boys and girls, if nightmare ends up as fighter #5, what would his move set be like? I'm having a hard time imagining his specials

I am also having a hard time imagining the moveset since I haven’t played any of the games

 

[Rohanx17]

Riddle me this smashboards

I'm property of nintendo.
But never saw light of smash.
And not because I was created after the latest one began.

Who am I?

 

[Firox]

I am also having a hard time imagining the moveset since I haven’t played any of the games

I've actually PLAYED the games and still can't imagine anything but heavy sword swings aside from his crazy long straight thrust. He just strikes me as a full-on sword Ganondorf. Like Ganondorf but with a buster sword. I guess the fighter's pass has been missing a heavy character but still, given Sakurai's penchant for "creative movesets", I'm not sure how Nightmare would fit the bill. Then again, there are a lot of interesting character types in Soul Caliber. You've got Kilik who uses a bo staff and Maxie who uses nunchuks. Cassandra, Sophitia and Taki might be out though since boobs/thighs are apparently evil (RIP Mai.)

 

[Deleted member]

Riddle me this smashboards

I'm property of nintendo.
But never saw light of smash.
And not because I was created after the latest one began.

Who am I?

It is Mewtwo

 

[Fatmanonice]

A great read, very clear. I never thought about how so many of the missing mii costumes were “heavy armor” types. That’s certainly a hell of a coincidence if it doesn’t mean anything. Geno and Lloyd fans have to be feeling really good right now, as they’re arguably the “safest” for popular post pass DLC. Only other character that comes close is Ryu but that’s only because he’s been heard by everyone and even then, his name came up kind of late to expect him coming soon.

See, that's the amazing thing. I've saying this for months but the Geno costume missing Hero's release was a HUGE deal. Like I've given evidence for, not only did Nintendo renegotiate to use Geno's assets but he missed the logical time for the axe to fall and fall hard. Save him for another character? Literally why? If the original plan for the Fighter's Pass was to return all the Smash 4 costumes and Nintendo negotiated with all the respective companies to get these assets again, what would be the point of holding on to him if they didn't have plans for him?

He was literally the only full Square costume in Smash 4. It's not like Megaman X and Exe who are already in Megaman's final Smash or Gil who's a literal who, Geno's been one of the most requested Smash characters for over a decade. They easily pulled the trigger on Knuckles and Tails, both huge requests in their own rights, and you're telling me that they wouldn't have done the same if there weren't future plans for Geno? Once again, it also lines up with all the intel and insider confidence. It's almost a silver bullet.

 

[Deleted member]

Riddle me this smashboards

I'm property of nintendo.
But never saw light of smash.
And not because I was created after the latest one began.

Who am I?

Mike Jones, of course!

OK, boys and girls, if nightmare ends up as fighter #5, what would his move set be like? I'm having a hard time imagining his specials

Just from watching him be played, kind of plain greatsword swings. Maybe combo starters, but that seems a little uncharacteristic since he hits like a bus.

 

[Rohanx17]

Mike Jones, of course!

Christ I'd love to see mike jones in but I think he's going to stay locked under the dursleys stairs for all eternity.

 

[Spatulo]

OK, boys and girls, if nightmare ends up as fighter #5, what would his move set be like? I'm having a hard time imagining his specials

There was a good video someone posted a while back that suggested he’d have a Stance Change move that could change how some of his normals work, similar to how he works in SC. He could also get Soul Charge to boost stats or something. I can also see them pulling in some Night Terror moves (his super powered final boss mode from SCIII) like having him sprout wings for a recovery or giving him a big face laser special. Also he apparently had an awesome nightmare horse once (Night-Mare?) that could be a side special like Wario’s

 

[Deleted member]

Mike Jones is from Startropics, no?

Yeah, he would be cool.

 

[Rohanx17]

As much as I'd love to this mystery is too tantalizing to put rest. The only thing that makes sense are the spirit holes but removing ones with prior cameo like porky and sylux, but somthing about that doesnt feel right.
Out of the ones I've noticed we have poochy, Mike, Adeline, Vaati, and grovile/sceptile. Adeline and Vaati seem a bit random when I'm confident they're outmatched by bwd and skull kid/Midna. Gekko man felt really promising at first but since he got snapped by gf I'm not sure what to make of him or any Pokemon reps for the future.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

They easily pulled the trigger on Knuckles and Tails, both huge requests in their own rights, and you're telling me that they wouldn't have done the same if there weren't future plans for Geno? Once again, it also lines up with all the intel and insider confidence. It's almost a silver bullet.

I've thought the same. Geno missing from Hero's release was the most wonderful game related news I took in all year because I took it to mean he will be coming soon.

 

[FalconFire93]

While we wait for the VGA, what is your favorite Pokemon game? mine is Withe 2, i love both the designs and the music is just fantastic and don't get me started on the region itself!

My favorite one will always be Pokémon Yellow because it was the first game to have a Pokémon follow behind you, being Pikachu and the fact that you could get all three starters: Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle, without having to trade for them.

My favorite side games have to be the Mystery Dungeon series and I ended up being a Charmander for my playthrough (I wasn’t as ruthless as the Charmander in Starter Squad though lol) and I remember wanting to evolve so badly when the games came out, but couldn’t ever figure out how because I didn’t have a guide or good Internet at the time, would love for a new one to be on the Switch.

 

[Deleted member]

As much as I'd love to thus mystery is to tantalizing to put rest. The only thing that makes sense are the spirit holes but removing ones with prior cameo like porky and sylux, but somthing about that doesnt feel right.
Out of the ones I've noticed we have poochy, Mike, Adeline, Vaati, and grovile/sceptile. Adeline and Vaati seem a bit random when I'm confident they're outmatched by bwd and skull kid/Midna. Gekko man felt really promising at first but since he got snapped by gf I'm not sure what to make of him or any Pokemon reps for the future.

I forgot that Sylux had a trophy in Brawl. Really though, all of these characters are represented via series, despite not making an appearance. Not sure I'm following the logic here, are you thinking a Nintendo character is #5? Because obviously, spirit or not, post pass doesn't matter, maybe not even assist trophy.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm almost vibrating (probably from it being Manic Monday and drinking a whole lot of coffee) but things are falling into place so damn hard. What I wrote earlier gives backing to a theory that I've been using literally before Ultimate was announced... Useable assets. Inkling, Isabelle, Chrom, Dark Samus, and K. Rool all had usable assets from Smash 4. One piece of the puzzle was in front of me the whole time...

Of course they renegotiated for Geno! He was in the base game and if Season 1 of DLC was planned and finalized before launch, of course Nintendo already had permission to use the assets, especially if the original plan was to bring back all the Smash 4 DLC costumes! It makes so much sense! Of course he was always going to come back either way but we all assumed it was the Mii costume. No! That ship has sailed, mother****ers, and hasn't been to port in four months!

Now, similar situation, DLC was kind of sprung on Sakurai for Smash 4 too. Originally it was JUST going to be Mewtwo as a little bonus gift but around November 2014 they were like "**** it, let's do a whole line up." Now, ladies and gentlemen, who were the first three characters outta da gate? Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy. Lucas was in Brawl and Mewtwo and Roy were originally planned for Brawl but ultimately cut despite having the most work done by far. Why these three? USABLE. ****ING. ASSETS. A lot of the basic work bull**** was already done for these characters. Same could easily be argued for Lloyd and Geno. USABLE. ****ING. ASSETS. There's a whole goddamn buffet table spread for ATs and Mii costumes being used as references and models for full playable characters. MMMMMM! That's some GOOOOOOD speculation, right there!

Our time is coming, my brothers and sisters! Our time is near!

 

[SSGuy]

While we wait for the VGA, what is your favorite Pokemon game? mine is Withe 2, i love both the designs and the music is just fantastic and don't get me started on the region itself!

Heart Gold/Soul Silver is the perfect Pokemon game. But I think OG Gold/Silver/Crystal is just as strong. It takes everything that made R/B/Y fun and just provided so much more. GameFreak has mentioned they like to change things up every game to make new experience. But when you look at Gold and Silver, most of all the core mechanics have not only become fads, but have stayed as staples to the franchise.

That speaks volumes to how good those games were.

 

[catsforlife1]

I'm almost vibrating (probably from it being Manic Monday and drinking a whole lot of coffee) but things are falling into place so damn hard. What I wrote earlier gives backing to a theory that I've been using literally before Ultimate was announced... Useable assets. Inkling, Isabelle, Chrom, Dark Samus, and K. Rool all had usable assets from Smash 4. One piece of the puzzle was in front of me the whole time...

Of course they renegotiated for Geno! He was in the base game and if Season 1 of DLC was planned and finalized before launch, of course Nintendo already had permission to use the assets, especially if the original plan was to bring back all the Smash 4 DLC costumes! It makes so much sense! Of course he was always going to come back either way but we all assumed it was the Mii costume. No! That ship has sailed, mother****ers, and hasn't been to port in four months!

Now, similar situation, DLC was kind of sprung on Sakurai for Smash 4 too. Originally it was JUST going to be Mewtwo as a little bonus gift but around November 2014 they were like "**** it, let's do a whole line up." Now, ladies and gentlemen, who were the first three characters outta da gate? Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy. Lucas was in Brawl and Mewtwo and Roy were originally planned for Brawl but ultimately cut despite having the most work done by far. Why these three? USABLE. ****ING. ASSETS. A lot of the basic work bull**** was already done for these characters. Same could easily be argued for Lloyd and Geno. USABLE. ****ING. ASSETS. There's a whole goddamn buffet table spread for ATs and Mii costumes being used as references and models for full playable characters. MMMMMM! That's some GOOOOOOD speculation, right there!

Our time is coming, my brothers and sisters! Our time is near!

View attachment 249438

Boys. Fatman is finally back to his roots.

 

[Nicnac]

I'm almost vibrating (probably from it being Manic Monday and drinking a whole lot of coffee) but things are falling into place so damn hard. What I wrote earlier gives backing to a theory that I've been using literally before Ultimate was announced... Useable assets. Inkling, Isabelle, Chrom, Dark Samus, and K. Rool all had usable assets from Smash 4. One piece of the puzzle was in front of me the whole time...

Of course they renegotiated for Geno! He was in the base game and if Season 1 of DLC was planned and finalized before launch, of course Nintendo already had permission to use the assets, especially if the original plan was to bring back all the Smash 4 DLC costumes! It makes so much sense! Of course he was always going to come back either way but we all assumed it was the Mii costume. No! That ship has sailed, mother****ers, and hasn't been to port in four months!

Now, similar situation, DLC was kind of sprung on Sakurai for Smash 4 too. Originally it was JUST going to be Mewtwo as a little bonus gift but around November 2014 they were like "**** it, let's do a whole line up." Now, ladies and gentlemen, who were the first three characters outta da gate? Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy. Lucas was in Brawl and Mewtwo and Roy were originally planned for Brawl but ultimately cut despite having the most work done by far. Why these three? USABLE. ****ING. ASSETS. A lot of the basic work bull**** was already done for these characters. Same could easily be argued for Lloyd and Geno. USABLE. ****ING. ASSETS. There's a whole goddamn buffet table spread for ATs and Mii costumes being used as references and models for full playable characters. MMMMMM! That's some GOOOOOOD speculation, right there!

Our time is coming, my brothers and sisters! Our time is near!

View attachment 249438

You're sounding a lot more chipper after your insider retirement. That bad, huh?