Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

Honestly the most popular is a tie between Leon and Yuri. They both won so many popularity polls that they are included in what the call the hall of fame and no longer allowed as selections. However Sakurai stated if he went for a Tales character it would be Llyod and while that could change I don't think it is has since the popularity thing was the exact same then as it is now.

I guess that's why Lloyd was chosen as a Mii costume over them because Sakurai sees him as the ideal Tales rep like he saw with Simon being the ideal Castlevania rep over Alucard who was more popular then Simon or Richter in the Smash Ballot.

Thar's why I'm speculating on Layton, he's a character people would respond to positively, but not Banjo or Joker levels of hype

That's right... Level 5 have yet to receive a rep in Smash yet, and they're one of the biggest developers in Japan. Layton would fit the bill here.

 

[OffBi]

Haha nice sarcasm you had me going for a bit there... right?

I dunno man, I don't see the pac...

 

[Herocin]

I dunno man, I don't see the pac...

Oh goodness gracious

 

[Vector Victor]

So if its Bandai Namco as character 5, just how many viable options does that leave us? Is it like Square Enix where narrowing down who they would use is hard since they have so many characters?

 

[Herocin]

So if its Bandai Namco as character 5, just how many viable options does that leave us? Is it like Square Enix where narrowing down who they would use is hard since they have so many characters?

Heihachi or Lloyd.

 

[Organization XIII]

I guess that's why Lloyd was chosen as a Mii costume over them because Sakurai sees him as the ideal Tales rep like he saw with Simon being the ideal Castlevania rep over Alucard who was more popular then Simon or Richter in the Smash Ballot.

Pretty much.

 

[waterhasataste]

So regarding Namco reps, who do you guys want? For me personally, I would want a Soul Calibur rep like Yoshimitsu or Nightmare.

I'd be okay with any Namco rep, but I've been leaning towards a Dark Souls rep recently. Never played Dark Souls, but I just think it'd be really sick if they got a rep in the game

I also like Lloyd and Heihachi though. Lloyd would be nice to get in because he was a popular request back then. I think double swords could also be pretty neat. Heihachi would be cool because we would get Fatal Fury v Street Fighter v Tekken as someone mentioned earlier and I think that would be neat. Also have a friend who wants him, so I support it for that alone

Another arcade rep would also be quite fun like dig dug or something. Soul Caliber as well would be pretty neat. Like I said, any Namco rep would be cool with me, they got some cool fun characters

 

[waterhasataste]

Let me guess, his name starts with a L

Luigi

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Luigi

You're a prophet.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wait a minute, forget what I said. I don’t think it can be Lloyd at all

He has been requested by this community ever since Brawl, he would CERTAINLY cause a bigger stir than Terry & Hero. So it simply can’t be him.

The plot thickens.....

Maybe it IS KOS-MOS after all? I don’t see Heihachi being it as Sakurai has said translating Tekken’s fighting style to Smash would be difficult and he wants to remain faithful to character’s portrayals as much as possible

 

[Firox]

So based on what we know about characters that AREN'T coming as fighter #5, here are my theories for other characters we WON'T get:

-Anymore classic arcade fighting characters. Firstly, Terry was JUST released as #4. Having #5 as another arcade fighting character would be totally against Sakurai's MO of creating diverse movesets, especially so close together in the same fighter's pass. MAYBE in the next pass, but I'm 100% we won't see one as fighter #5.

-Hyper obscure pick. I know that many people think that pretty much ANYTHING can get in at this point, but let's me honest here, the DLC thus far is trying to appeal to pre-existing fanbases. I highly doubt that fighter #5 will be a complete "literal who?". It's going to be someone that's highly recognizable even if those that recognize them are outside the smash fanbase (and likely will be).

-Hyper hype pick. As fatman and others have pointed out, Nintendo is legendary for tripping at the finish line and landing face-first into a pile of swirly dog poo. That said, I highly doubt that fighter #5 will be anyone from the top 15 or so of any smash ballot we've seen. I also doubt it will be a character that generates seizures of joy a la Master Chief. Speaking of which....

-I highly doubt Master Chief for two reasons: Firstly, for the reason stated above. Secondly, because of his similarities to Doomslayer (both aesthetic and potential moveset-wise) I feel that his inclusion would be almost as good as a deconfirm for Doomslayer, and by extension, the Cacomallow leak. The leak that not only signals Geno but also the one that has yet to be disproven as arguably the most convincing leak of this speculation cycle. Frankly there's a dozen other reasons why I don't think he'd happen, but those are the largest two to me.

-Given the pattern of DLC thus far, I highly doubt we'll see a character from a company we've seen represented so far. So that leaves us with what? Bamco, Ubisoft? Suda 51?

With all this criteria in mind, the only three nameable characters I can think of are Arle, Travis Touchdown, and Rayman. Each is renown in their own right, but also didn't top the smash ballots and comes from a company yet to be represented in the DLC. Each would also offer a fun and unique moveset which we know is a priority to Sakurai. If anyone has any other ideas that fit these criteria, please let me know.

EDIT: I forgot about KOS-MOS. She not only fits the bill perfectly, but would also add some of that female diversity to the DLC roster. Not to say that we HAVE to have diversity, but I think a female character of her caliber would definitely stand out from the rest.

 

[wynn728]

I'm mostly saying this because, especially in the PapaGenos Discord, there seems to be this wide spread idea that #5 absolutely has to be a character so amazing and awe inspiring that everyone who sees the trailer will violently **** their pants and cry uncontrollably from the sheer majesty of it but, not to knock the potential candidates for #5 because I think they're all great, Nintendo has never saved the best for last.

I don't know why people are thinking this, don't they remember that Sakurai literally ended the last Smash Bros Direct with Piranha Plant being playable. The bar is suppose to set extremely low with last reveals.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Maybe it IS KOS-MOS after all? I don’t see Heihachi being it as Sakurai has said translating Tekken’s fighting style to Smash would be difficult and he wants to remain faithful to character’s portrayals as much as possible

I swear Rie Sonomura if KOS-MOS get's in, I'm going to make her one of my mains because of you. I'll become one of the best KOS-MOS players in the world!

I don't know why people are thinking this, don't they remember that Sakurai literally ended the last Smash Bros Direct with Piranha Plant being playable. The bar is suppose to set extremely low with last reveals.

Sakurai can add whoever he want's at anytime in a Smash game's development. He can easily break this pattern whenever he want's too.

 

[RingJ5]

He niche sure sure but so was DQ and Persona and yet here we are. Llyod's series is a very famous RPG series and it's even starting to take off here. He's honestly got more WOW factor than Persona if we take out the unexpected angle which gave Joker any note. In fact you're only calling Persona standout because of Smash. Before Smash Persona was eclipsed by Smash in terms of notability. And still has way more in sales that the series, in fact it's about double. As for fan demand it's a little overblown for Llyod right now because he's being talked about. He's never been a super high name in Smash. And that's coming from a fan of the series. He's only getting so much attention now because so may others died off.
Really mate, I get where you are coming from but at the same time I think you are just too caught up in things that don't matter. We got super niche characters in Joker and Terry and Sakurai isn't putting stock into genres. Really it comes down to what makes sense to the company and so far that hasn't meant paying attention to where reveals are taking place otherwise Hero wouldn't have been E3 and Joker wouldn't have been VGA. There probably is a method to these reveals but this line of thinking isn't it.

Dragon Quest is by no means niche, what are you talking about? From an American perspective, sure, but in Japan it’s absolutely massive. Tales doesn’t remotely come close.

And again, you seem to be skipping over that what made Joker seem so “impossible” was his heavy, heavy Playstation ties. It wasn’t just that he was an unexpected pick, it was that he was an unexpected pick whose main game was fully exclusive to the one competitor known for generally not playing ball with this kind of thing.

Also, Lloyd has been a pretty huge name for this entire speculation season, I’ve seen him brought up all year on places like here and PG’s Discord. He even got 4th in a pretty big multi-stage poll on r/smashbros a few months ago, right behind Geno.

...I’m really confused by what you mean about “Hero wouldn’t be E3 and Joker wouldn’t be VGA”, because what I’m interpreting that as is probably not what you meant.

You’re saying I’m getting caught up in things that don’t matter, but what if next month comes around and they (effectively for prediction reasons, not necessarily internally) do, and the final character isn’t one of those two after all? It’s all speculative at this point, and hard-line guessing “oh it’s going to be this one character, full stop” isn’t fun or interesting to me.

 

[MisterMike]

So regarding Namco reps, who do you guys want? For me personally, I would want a Soul Calibur rep like Yoshimitsu or Nightmare.

Not much of a Namco guy, but I'd like to see Klonoa get in. Klonoabros have had it too bad for far too long, plus he's got enough to work with for a moveset, so there's that.
Heihachi wouldn't be a bad choice, but compared to Ryu, Ken and even Terry, he's a bit on the bland side. Plus he's been in a bunch of crossovers already.
Lloyd getting in as the Tales Of character wouldn't be bad, but I'd like to see something from Abyss make it in, like a Luke or Tear costume... mainly because it's the only Tales Of game I've played...

Honestly though, I think FP5 will probably be a Resident Evil character, either Jill or Leon (Or Nemesis, if Sakurai's feeling adventurous). We have so many Capcom costumes that are yet to come back, I think the 5th character would be the most likely time to seem them back, so them coming back with a RE character seems likely to me at this point.

In terms of Mii Costumes, I'm predicting something like this:
- Nemesis (Mii Gunner)
- Mr. X (Mii Brawler)
- Albert Wesker (Mii Brawler/Mii Gunner, not sure which is better)
- Mega Man X (Returning, Mii Gunner)
- Megaman.EXE (Returning, Mii Gunner)
- Rathalos Armor (Returning, Mii Swordfighter)

 

[MattX20]

Here's my stance on Bandai Namco's chances for the Fighter Pass: if we do get one from them, I'm doubting it's Heihachi since we just had Terry and I imagine Sakurai would want to have a little more variety to it. Given Fatman's comments from the other day, I'm willing to believe Lloyd would be a top candidate for Season 2 of Ultimate's DLC. If we do get a Bamco rep, KOS-MOS could be up there, but my instinct is telling me Professor Layton due to the rather close relationship Level 5 and Nintendo had for over a decade.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Here's my stance on Bandai Namco's chances for the Fighter Pass: if we do get one from them, I'm doubting it's Heihachi since we just had Terry and I imagine Sakurai would want to have a little more variety to it. Given Fatman's comments from the other day, I'm willing to believe Lloyd would be a top candidate for Season 2 of Ultimate's DLC. If we do get a Bamco rep, KOS-MOS could be up there, but my instinct is telling me Professor Layton due to the rather close relationship Level 5 and Nintendo had for over a decade.

I keep telling people this, but I will say it again

Ruling out Heihachi because of Terry is the equivalent of ruling out Lloyd because of Hero.

Either they are both likely, or none of them at all

 

[Droodle]

Wait a minute, forget what I said. I don’t think it can be Lloyd at all

He has been requested by this community ever since Brawl, he would CERTAINLY cause a bigger stir than Terry & Hero. So it simply can’t be him.

The plot thickens.....

May end up with Yuri instead of Lloyd.

-Is the most popular Tales character by far, to the point he was banned from official polls.
-Is pretty much in every Tales crossover, and can be seen as the "face" of Tales.
-Hasn't even gotten a mii costume yet, making him an entirely new character in Smash unlike Lloyd.
-Tales of Vesperia has sold around 1.6mil while Tales of Symphonia has sold around 2.3 million. So the popularity of the two games is decently similar.
-Tales of Vesperia is actually on the Switch, unlike Tales of Symphonia. So Yuri in Smash would earn Nintendo and Bamco even more money by selling more copies of Vesperia.
- Tales of Vesperia: DE came out this year on all consoles.

Honestly feel like people completely discount Yuri, just because Lloyd is more wanted Smash. Everywhere else Yuri's popularity dwarfs Lloyd, and he's definitely more mainstream than Lloyd in Japan.

They're both niche here.

I think KOS-MOS and Yuri are the most likely Bandai Namco characters at this point.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

May end up with Yuri instead of Lloyd.

-Is the most popular Tales character by far, to the point he was banned from official polls.
-Is pretty much in every Tales crossover, and can be seen as the "face" of Tales.
-Hasn't even gotten a mii costume yet, making him an entirely new character in Smash unlike Lloyd.
-Tales of Vesperia has sold around 1.6mil while Tales of Symphonia has sold around 2.3 million. So the popularity of the two games is decently similar.
-Tales of Vesperia is actually on the Switch, unlike Tales of Symphonia. So Yuri in Smash would earn Nintendo and Bamco even more money by selling more copies of Vesperia.
- Tales of Vesperia: DE came out this year on all consoles.

Honestly feel like people completely discount Yuri, just because Lloyd is more wanted Smash. Everywhere else Yuri's popularity dwarfs Lloyd, and he's definitely more mainstream than Lloyd in Japan.

They're both niche here.

I think KOS-MOS and Yuri are the most likely Bandai Namco characters at this point.

But Sakurai said if he were to choose a Tales rep, it would be Lloyd. Plus he got a Mii costume in Smash 4 and we still haven't seen it return yet along with the other Namco costumes.

 

[RingJ5]

Not much of a Namco guy, but I'd like to see Klonoa get in. Klonoabros have had it too bad for far too long, plus he's got enough to work with for a moveset, so there's that.
Heihachi wouldn't be a bad choice, but compared to Ryu, Ken and even Terry, he's a bit on the bland side. Plus he's been in a bunch of crossovers already.
Lloyd getting in as the Tales Of character wouldn't be bad, but I'd like to see something from Abyss make it in, like a Luke or Tear costume... mainly because it's the only Tales Of game I've played...

Honestly though, I think FP5 will probably be a Resident Evil character, either Jill or Leon (Or Nemesis, if Sakurai's feeling adventurous). We have so many Capcom costumes that are yet to come back, I think the 5th character would be the most likely time to seem them back, so them coming back with a RE character seems likely to me at this point.

In terms of Mii Costumes, I'm predicting something like this:
- Nemesis (Mii Gunner)
- Mr. X (Mii Brawler)
- Albert Wesker (Mii Brawler/Mii Gunner, not sure which is better)
- Mega Man X (Returning, Mii Gunner)
- Megaman.EXE (Returning, Mii Gunner)
- Rathalos Armor (Returning, Mii Swordfighter)

Villains are without a doubt the way to go for RE, in my opinion. Wesker or Nemesis have so much extra move potential compared to the main heroes, who are all basically normal people with guns.

Unless they wanted to go the MVC Frank West way of effectively summoning zombies, that’d be quite neat.

Here's my stance on Bandai Namco's chances for the Fighter Pass: if we do get one from them, I'm doubting it's Heihachi since we just had Terry and I imagine Sakurai would want to have a little more variety to it. Given Fatman's comments from the other day, I'm willing to believe Lloyd would be a top candidate for Season 2 of Ultimate's DLC. If we do get a Bamco rep, KOS-MOS could be up there, but my instinct is telling me Professor Layton due to the rather close relationship Level 5 and Nintendo had for over a decade.

I really like the idea of Layton in Smash, but what would he use to fight? I’m just imagining him randomly throwing bits and pieces from his puzzles at the enemies, like matchsticks for fire damage and bananas for tripping and... actually, wait, this would be a great character.

 

[Organization XIII]

Dragon Quest is by no means niche, what are you talking about? From an American perspective, sure, but in Japan it’s absolutely massive. Tales doesn’t remotely come close.

And again, you seem to be skipping over that what made Joker seem so “impossible” was his heavy, heavy Playstation ties. It wasn’t just that he was an unexpected pick, it was that he was an unexpected pick whose main game was fully exclusive to the one competitor known for generally not playing ball with this kind of thing.

Also, Lloyd has been a pretty huge name for this entire speculation season, I’ve seen him brought up all year on places like here and PG’s Discord. He even got 4th in a pretty big multi-stage poll on r/smashbros a few months ago, right behind Geno.

...I’m really confused by what you mean about “Hero wouldn’t be E3 and Joker wouldn’t be VGA”, because what I’m interpreting that as is probably not what you meant.

You’re saying I’m getting caught up in things that don’t matter, but what if next month comes around and they (effectively for prediction reasons, not necessarily internally) do, and the final character isn’t one of those two after all? It’s all speculative at this point, and hard-line guessing “oh it’s going to be this one character, full stop” isn’t fun or interesting to me.

I meant to say in America they were niche. Because in Japan none of them are niche. Well maybe still Persona. As for the heavy PS ties making him impossible that's a fan only thing which isn't even something that matters considering we already got freaking Cloud. Honestly that just serves to highlight the disconnect from fans and devs. And as someone who loves Tales and is a fan of Isaac who's fanbase has a bond with the Llyod support, he wasn't and never has been big. His support has been middling at best. I wish he was a huge request. He isn't. He's only getting a big amount of attention because Namco looks likely and people are a little too quick to dismiss Heihachi. As for the VGAs and E3 I meant that those are US events and those are both way more known in Japan where RPGs do way better yet they still revealed them there so they likely would have no issue putting Llyod there as well.

 

[MattX20]

Villains are without a doubt the way to go for RE, in my opinion. Wesker or Nemesis have so much extra move potential compared to the main heroes, who are all basically normal people with guns.

Unless they wanted to go the MVC Frank West way of effectively summoning zombies, that’d be quite neat.


I really like the idea of Layton in Smash, but what would he use to fight? I’m just imagining him randomly throwing bits and pieces from his puzzles at the enemies, like matchsticks for fire damage and bananas for tripping and... actually, wait, this would be a great character.

Layton has demonstrated he's got fencing skills, used artillery, hang-gliding, and quite a few other skills. If you want a good example of how Layton's moveset could work, just look at his thread's first page https://smashboards.com/threads/lay...ery-journey-deluxe-for-switch-out-now.446339/

 

[Droodle]

But Sakurai said if he were to choose a Tales rep, it would be Lloyd. Plus he got a Mii costume in Smash 4 and we still haven't seen it return yet along with the other Namco costumes.

That was before Vesperia was even on the a Nintendo console, and also before Bamco started to market Yuri as heavily as now.

And besides the interview was specifically mentioning A MII COSTUME, not a playable character. On top of this, interviews aren't the end all be all of who would get in, in the future.

Yuri's only appearance before then on a Nintendo console was the 2 Project X Zone games.

Bandai Namco clearly sees Yuri as a bigger money maker then Lloyd. Japan (Tales of's primary fanbase) is more vary of Yuri's existence compared to Lloyd. Yuri would even earn Nintendo/Bamco more money through the additional sales of Vesperia. Smash fans would buy Yuri/Lloyd no matter who it is, but a ton of people in Japan know way more about Yuri compared to Lloyd. Yuri's addition would definitely sell more fighter passes compared to Lloyd.

So from a marketing standpoint, Yuri makes infinitely more sense than Lloyd.

If Lloyd got in, he would 100% end up being a bubble pick catered specifically towards Smash fans.

They are both equally likely in my opinion; and if 1 of them does get in, the other will 100% be a Mii costume.

 

[xpnc]

I keep telling people this, but I will say it again

Ruling out Heihachi because of Terry is the equivalent of ruling out Lloyd because of Hero.

Either they are both likely, or none of them at all

You keep saying this and it keeps not making any sense. Lloyd is not going to have Hero's spellcasting gimmick whereas Heihachi absolutely would have Ryu/Ken/Terry's directional input gimmick.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I'VE GOT IT! I know who fp5 is gonna be

Spoiler: Fighter 5

it's Klaymen from the neverhood

Edit: I was gonna add a picture, bit NOoOoOoOo. The image function has to act up

 

[JarBear]

I love the Neverhood! I tried to upload my klayman doll ... but alas ... could not.

 

[PatPrime]

I'VE GOT IT! I know who fp5 is gonna be

Spoiler: Fighter 5

it's Klaymen from the neverhood

Edit: I was gonna add a picture, bit NOoOoOoOo. The image function has to act up

I would absolutely LOVE this. Too bad EA doesn't realize they own that franchise.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Wait, didn’t Fatmanonice say no Kos Mos awhile back? I could be very wrong though.

 

[Organization XIII]

That was before Vesperia was even on the a Nintendo console, and also before Bamco started to market Yuri as heavily as now.

And besides the interview was specifically mentioning A MII COSTUME, not a playable character. On top of this, interviews aren't the end all be all of who would get in, in the future.

Yuri's only appearance before then on a Nintendo console was the 2 Project X Zone games.

Bandai Namco clearly sees Yuri as a bigger money maker then Lloyd. Japan (Tales of's primary fanbase) is more vary of Yuri's existence compared to Lloyd. Yuri would even earn Nintendo/Bamco more money through the additional sales of Vesperia. Smash fans would buy Yuri/Lloyd no matter who it is, but a ton of people in Japan know way more about Yuri compared to Lloyd. Yuri's addition would definitely sell more fighter passes compared to Lloyd.

So from a marketing standpoint, Yuri makes infinitely more sense than Lloyd.

If Lloyd got in, he would 100% end up being a bubble pick catered specifically towards Smash fans.

They are both equally likely in my opinion; and if 1 of them does get in, the other will 100% be a Mii costume.

These are some interesting points but if I may offer some discourse the first one isn't really true. Yuri isn't being used any more than before I just think with the recent re-release people are more socially aware of Yuri. Like I guess you could say adding in those costumes to GEB3 was more marketing but really Namco does stuff like all the time. Next as far as we know small appearances like that are already enough. Cloud got in and his biggest appearance on Nintendo console was like Chain of Memories on GBA. While I'll agree with him likely being a bigger money maker that is from the side of Namco. While it's Namco may request Yuri it's more probable they'll just give Sakurai whoever he asks for. Also I don't know about that fact more Japanese would go to Yuri. I mean he certainly is more popular but even in the Tales fanbase Llyod is seen as the character for Smash and he's not unknown. Symphonia was still a beloved entry even there and he is used a good bit. Plus he opened the series to the West. He's not just the Smash pick because of the Gamecube but because in a way he's the Cloud of the series. A heavily watered down Cloud in terms of notability but similar nonetheless. I think it's more what Symphonia did for the series that Sakurai felt he was the Mii costume to pick than any sort of Smash bubble but hard to say until we see him talk more about Tales.

You keep saying this and it keeps not making any sense. Lloyd is not going to have Hero's spellcasting gimmick whereas Heihachi absolutely would have Ryu/Ken/Terry's directional input gimmick.

Because the fact that Terry came using a similar gimmick in the first place to Ryu and Ken and wasn't hindered removes a lot of doubt that just because Heihachi using inputs as well would keep him out. It comes down to whether the difficulty in giving Heihachi a moveset Sakurai mentioned back in Smash 4 was overcome.

 

[PatPrime]

Wait, didn’t Fatmanonice say no Kos Mos awhile back? I could be very wrong though.

I'm pretty sure he said that KOS-MOS is not a name that has been talked behind the scenes, at least not very seriously.

 

[RingJ5]

I meant to say in America they were niche. Because in Japan none of them are niche. Well maybe still Persona. As for the heavy PS ties making him impossible that's a fan only thing which isn't even something that matters considering we already got freaking Cloud. Honestly that just serves to highlight the disconnect from fans and devs. And as someone who loves Tales and is a fan of Isaac who's fanbase has a bond with the Llyod support, he wasn't and never has been big. His support has been middling at best. I wish he was a huge request. He isn't. He's only getting a big amount of attention because Namco looks likely. As for the VGAs and E3 I meant that those are US events and those are both way more known in Japan where RPGs do way better yet they still revealed them there so they likely would have no issue putting Llyod there as well.

FF7 was not exclusive and neither is FF in general, while P5, and the rest of the mainline Persona series since 2, is. That’s an important distinction to many and made him that much more particularly impossible.

I don’t know where you’re looking, but I’ve legitimately seen Lloyd as a constant name in the speculation scene all year, between places like here, Discord, and Reddit. He might not be as big as other names, but he’s far from obscure in this scene.

And if you legitimately think that Joker’s reveal didn’t go over well, then... I’m not sure what to say, it was largely seen as one of the high points of the event. Maybe it wasn’t recieved too well for the particular crowd of fans that wanted certain requests, but- oh no, God help me, I’m starting to turn into one of those people that rants about the “Smash bubble”.

Need to get back to the topic of Geno... Oh! I know!

Question for everyone: Considering the way that waves have been going so far, Geno would most likely come with 5-6 Mii Costumes. We can safely say that the Chocobo hat’s one of them, and according to the text leak Mallow and Smithy might be two more... but what would the other 2-3 be?

 

[owjies]

One thing that could go in Layton's favor is he could ride the same principle that the Belmonts did. From a demand perspective, both Layton and Jibanyan appear frequently about one or two tiers down from the most requested characters. Similar to how Sakurai looked at the sum of the Castlevania requests and the sum of the Final Fantasy requests, adding Layton and Jibanyan's requests together might push a "Level 5 rep" over the edge.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Not much of a Namco guy, but I'd like to see Klonoa get in. Klonoabros have had it too bad for far too long, plus he's got enough to work with for a moveset, so there's that.
Heihachi wouldn't be a bad choice, but compared to Ryu, Ken and even Terry, he's a bit on the bland side. Plus he's been in a bunch of crossovers already.
Lloyd getting in as the Tales Of character wouldn't be bad, but I'd like to see something from Abyss make it in, like a Luke or Tear costume... mainly because it's the only Tales Of game I've played...

Honestly though, I think FP5 will probably be a Resident Evil character, either Jill or Leon (Or Nemesis, if Sakurai's feeling adventurous). We have so many Capcom costumes that are yet to come back, I think the 5th character would be the most likely time to seem them back, so them coming back with a RE character seems likely to me at this point.

In terms of Mii Costumes, I'm predicting something like this:
- Nemesis (Mii Gunner)
- Mr. X (Mii Brawler)
- Albert Wesker (Mii Brawler/Mii Gunner, not sure which is better)
- Mega Man X (Returning, Mii Gunner)
- Megaman.EXE (Returning, Mii Gunner)
- Rathalos Armor (Returning, Mii Swordfighter)

Yeah, I'm thinking #5 will be from Capcom as well, or something like Ryu Hayabusa. I don't think it will be a Namco character though, because otherwise Heihachi's costume would have came with Terry. I think it was changed much like Geno/Chochobo not coming with Hero since they decided to add a Namco character and Geno after the first pass. Though it's possible that all of the Capcom costumes were originally supposed to come with Banjo, meaning Capcom wasn't originally meant to get a DLC character either.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

So regarding Namco reps, who do you guys want? For me personally, I would want a Soul Calibur rep like Yoshimitsu or Nightmare.

That's also who I want. I also really like Kloana's design but haven't played the games sounds like Kloana would be a a cool edition too tho and definitely a preference for me over the likes of Llyod, Hiehachi, or a Dark Souls rep.

 

[Droodle]

These are some interesting points but if I may offer some discourse the first one isn't really true. Yuri isn't being used any more than before I just think with the recent re-release people are more socially aware of Yuri. Like I guess you could say adding in those costumes to GEB3 was more marketing but really Namco does stuff like all the time. Next as far as we know small appearances like that are already enough. Cloud got in and his biggest appearance on Nintendo console was like Chain of Memories on GBA. While I'll agree with him likely being a bigger money maker that is from the side of Namco. While it's Namco may request Yuri it's more probable they'll just give Sakurai whoever he asks for. Also I don't know about that fact more Japanese would go to Yuri. I mean he certainly is more popular but even in the Tales fanbase Llyod is seen as the character for Smash and he's not unknown. Symphonia was still a beloved entry even there and he is used a good bit. Plus he opened the series to the West. He's not just the Smash pick because of the Gamecube but because in a way he's the Cloud of the series. A heavily watered down Cloud in terms of notability but similar nonetheless. I think it's more what Symphonia did for the series that Sakurai felt he was the Mii costume to pick than any sort of Smash bubble but hard to say until we see him talk more about Tales.

While I agree with your general point, I disagree with some specifics. Cloud in general is WAY more mainstream than either Lloyd or Yuri, and is seen as a much more massive icon in the gaming community. That gives him much more leeway compared to either Lloyd or Yuri. Final Fantasy was already well known in the west before FF7, it's just that FF7 was SO massive it was impossible to ignore. Tales basically was niche until Symphonia where it really found a worldwide audience, but it's still niche. I would say Symphonia and Lloyd are closer to FF4 and Cecil rather than FF7 and Cloud. In fact, I would argue that Yuri is like the Cloud of the Tales fanbase (due to his popularity), although still nowhere as notable.

My evidence for Yuri being used more aggressively compared to anyone else is due to the fact that he's pretty much front and center in all of Tales related crossovers (like Granblue for example), as well as having the most alternate forms compared to pretty much anyoneelse in Tales gacha games (not the end all be all, but it does showcase that Yuri earns a ton more money). Even in the Tales fanbase in the West outside of Japan, the vote between Lloyd and Yuri has pretty much been split in half compared to before Vesperia Definitive Edition was released, when people thought only Lloyd has a chance. In terms of the Smash fanbase Lloyd is still the clear winner.

My general point is that they are both equally likely (although I personally lean more towards Yuri, due to recency), and I feel like a ton of people within this fanbase completely ignore the fact that Lloyd is not that popular outside of this fanbase. Like I see dozens of posts about Lloyd, and everyone just ignores Yuri who has just as much of a shot.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm pretty sure he said that KOS-MOS is not a name that has been talked behind the scenes, at least not very seriously.

Could be because Bandai Namco is VERY protective of insider info and they DO use leakbait

so if KOS-MOS hasn’t been heard but Heihachi and Lloyd have... the latter two could be leakbait to hide the real one, KOS-MOS...

Aaaaa please I need this to be true

 

[Organization XIII]

FF7 was not exclusive and neither is FF in general, while P5, and the rest of the mainline Persona series since 2, is. That’s an important distinction to many and made him that much more particularly impossible.

I don’t know where you’re looking, but I’ve legitimately seen Lloyd as a constant name in the speculation scene all year, between places like here, Discord, and Reddit. He might not be as big as other names, but he’s far from obscure in this scene.

And if you legitimately think that Joker’s reveal didn’t go over well, then... I’m not sure what to say, it was largely seen as one of the high points of the event. Maybe it wasn’t recurved too well for the particular crowd of fans that wanted certain requests, but- oh no, God help me, I’m starting to turn into one of those people that rants about the “Smash bubble”.

Need to get back to the topic of Geno... Oh! I know!

Question for everyone: Considering the way that waves have been going so far, Geno would most likely come with 5-6 Mii Costumes. We can safely say that the Chocobo hat’s one of them, and according to the text leak Mallow and Smithy might be two more... but what would the other 2-3 be?

Had this big thing to explain all these points and then accidentally clicked a link and it all got erased now I'm sad. Here's some highlights: Cloud was way more impossible. Literally a PS1 icon and never on Nintendo aside from spinoffs the exact same as Joker. In fact since 7 until the Switch a mainline FF wasn't on a Nintendo console.
You've heard Llyod sure just like I've heard Ryu Hyubasa. They were speculated on but they were never popular. There's a huge difference. A gen 8 Pokemon was speculated on but it wasn't a pick due to want.
I didn't say the Joker reveal went bad I said if they were paying attention to where something would do best geographically then Joker wouldn't have been at the US hosted VGAs.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I'm starting to really agree with the sentiment that fighters in the fighters pass have never been in Smash in any form whatsoever, so I have to agree that Lloyd isn't coming as #5. I can see post pass having at least one Anime Lloydfighter, so I don't expect to see his costume coming back. I know we've got a lot of Lloydbros here so I'm sorry when I say I'm glad he won't be the one who ends the pass.

I'm also kind of leaning this way. I don't know who it will be, but so far people have made the most convincing arguments for Travis Touchdown and Professor Layton in my opinion.

 

[Organization XIII]

While I agree with your general point, I disagree with some specifics. Cloud in general is WAY more mainstream than either Lloyd or Yuri, and is seen as a much more massive icon in the gaming community. That gives him much more leeway compared to either Lloyd or Yuri. Final Fantasy was already well known in the west before FF7, it's just that FF7 was SO massive it was impossible to ignore. Tales basically was niche until Symphonia where it really found a worldwide audience, but it's still niche. I would say Symphonia and Lloyd are closer to FF4 and Cecil rather than FF7 and Cloud. In fact, I would argue that Yuri is like the Cloud of the Tales fanbase (due to his popularity), although still nowhere as notable.

My evidence for Yuri being used more aggressively compared to anyone else is due to the fact that he's pretty much front and center in all of Tales related crossovers (like Granblue for example), as well as having the most alternate forms compared to pretty much anyoneelse in Tales gacha games (not the end all be all, but it does showcase that Yuri earns a ton more money). Even in the Tales fanbase in the West outside of Japan, the vote between Lloyd and Yuri has pretty much been split in half compared to before Vesperia Definitive Edition was released, when people thought only Lloyd has a chance. In terms of the Smash fanbase Lloyd is still the clear winner.

My general point is that they are both equally likely (although I personally lean more towards Yuri, due to recency), and I feel like a ton of people within this fanbase completely ignore the fact that Lloyd is not that popular outside of this fanbase. Like I see dozens of posts about Lloyd, and everyone just ignores Yuri who has just as much of a shot.

Well I did state that the circumstances were similar but that Llyod was way smaller. In fact you even reiterated my points as to why. Llyod opened the series to the west just like Cloud but yes you are right, it was to nowhere near the degree that Cloud did.
All true on the Yuri front expect the split. I don't know where you get that from. I'm a part of a very large amount of fan groups for Smash and most don't really talk Smash and if they do they say Llyod. Some bring up Yuri for popularity but their opinions are pretty similar to the Smash fan's reasonings.
I can see why they'd go for Yuri but I do think the chances are in favor of Llyod.
Though either one is fine with me.

 

[ganjo]

You keep saying this and it keeps not making any sense. Lloyd is not going to have Hero's spellcasting gimmick whereas Heihachi absolutely would have Ryu/Ken/Terry's directional input gimmick.

Still the characters are more than that "input gimmick". They would play completely different as their home series play completely different too. Saying they would be samey is a result out of ignorance for their home games than a fact.
Also Lloyd never makes good use of his two swords, all his animations look very similar to sword users already in the game. The second sword seems more tacked on, than complmentary to the first one.