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You literally said that Hero was the most requested character in Japan, and that’s quite wrong. I’m not trying to compare the quality of following two series in any way, so don’t mix up my words here, but by that logic if Jonesy was announced tomorrow and the trailer blew up thanks to the Fortnite crowd’s views, then you could just as easily claim that he was America’s most wanted character.
Are you truly comparing fortnite, a large casual game, to Dragonquest, the original core JRP lol. You think you’re going to have countless videos of people crying tears of joy for Jonesy? You think DQ views only blew up in Japan because of a meme like fortnite would cause most people don’t want it?
In case you didn’t realize most request polls for smash are largely based on who people think could get in, not an accurate assessment of who would be the biggest most loved character. When I said DQ was the biggest request in Japan, I meant he filled the biggest possible character slot Japan could ask for, even in the realm of characters people didn’t think could be a reality, he’s that ****ing huge. There can be no one bigger. If we’re tiering characters for Japan he is S+ tier while everyone else is a tier below him or more.
The demographic for fortnite and smash ultimate is too different anyways. If they put in a fortnite character as the fifth choice people would be very upset.
Just caught up to this, but holy ****. If this leak is true, then two of my most wanted characters are in.
I want to believe, but I don’t know if my heart can take it.
Im about 75% on the leak, but I wouldnt totally write off Ryu or Doomguy as leakbait. We know Bethesda had talked to Nintendo about Smash around a year ago. They certainly have a handful of characters with that could make the cut. The Doom series seems to love the switch rn as well. For Ryu, I think its definitely suspicious that a much smaller series of theirs is present while their big star is MIA. Koei Tecmo is one of the last big companies nintendo works with often that doesnt have much in smash (with Ubisoft being another one, though if Geno opens the spirit door I really think Rayman has a good shot). Of course there might never be anything from them but I still think theyre very viable choices.
They can literally release these costumes whenever if they wanted to. Back in Smash 4 they released Mii Costumes without fighters, so why can't they do that again. Not everything has to make sense of why they do these stuff because a good amount of time nothing that Sakurai & his team does make any sense.
Like, why did they save the Shadow Assist Trophy for the very last announcement when they were making Echo Fighters and Shadow is literally the easiest Assist Trophy they made?
Why did they thought ending on Incineroar was a smart choice?
Why did they give the illusion that Dracula is a stage boss for the Castlevania stage and under rare occurrence you get to fight him in multiplayer match?
WHY DIDN'T THEY ANNOUNCE TERRY BLOODY BOGARD AT EVO WHEN THEY WERE THE LAST EVENT AND EVERYONE BEFORE THEM SHOWED SOMETHING OFF!?!?!!!
LIKE, COM ONE! You're at EVO where everyone there are extremely huge fans of the fighting game community and SNK is really freaking big and important to them. They had the PERFECT-no exaggeration-PERFECT trailer for the EVO audience that would've blow their bloody mind with Terry being revealed. The reaction would've been so great that many of the EVO audience might need to be carried out of the building with a stretcher due to the shock that gave them. WHAT WERE YOU BLOODY THINKING NINTENDO & SAKURAI?!?!?!
They do so man questionable things that they do that I wouldn't roll out the possibility that they would attach these costumes to random characters or just release them by themselves.
I see what you mean, but these examples you're using here aren't necessarily equivalent. Shadow's status as an Assist Trophy wasn't something that Sakurai and company needed to reveal immediately, it was something we as fans wanted to be revealed immediately. Another example, they didn't include Incineroar as the last announcement to purposefully disappoint us, we just found Incineroar underwhelming. (Though I must admit, that dissappointment quickly faded once I got my hands on that hammy son of a gun.) Another example that you didn't include, Sakurai didn't need to leave Robin's Final Smash hidden, leading us to speculating that Chrom was upgraded to Echo Fighter status, it just sort of... happened, and that's my point.
Sakurai and company don't think like us, they don't consider our expectations in this way. They don't think "Oh, we'd better reveal the Isaac Assist Trophy first so that fans don't get their hopes up.", they just do. That's their MO, and that's the difference between these situations and these rumored Mii Fighter Costumes. Their MO when it comes to Mii Fighter costumes isn't something we've invented based on our own feelings, it's been happening throughout this game's lifespan up until now, all Mii Fighter costumes thus far have been released in groups of 4-to-6 with each fighter, with most of them being based on said fighter's home series whenever possible. This is what we currently know for certain with regards to how Mii Fighter costumes are doled out.
Now is it possible that they could just release Mii Fighter costumes whenever they want to for whatever franchise they want? Yes, of course they could. Similarly, they could also cancel all future DLC fighters and remove all of the already included characters and just give us Jonesy from Fortnite, whose only move is the default dance, as the only playabe fighter in Smash Ultimate, with a final message reading "Never ask me for anything ever again." But is that likely? Of course not, but anything is possible with that line of logic, so sticking to what you know for certain is often the best method of reasoning. So for now, we have to conclude that the costumes included in this rumor, assuming it's legit, would fit into their typical MO of releasing Mii Fighter costumes in bulk alongside each new fighter and if that's the case, we need to do a bit of figuring about how these costumes would be released and why.
The first ideas that would come to mind would be that they would release these costumes over the course of several fighters, one at a time. Or perhaps they would release them all together in one separate bundle, but with no fighter to go along with it. This opens up the question as to why Sakurai and company would license the rights to use these characters (Geno, Mallow, Smithy, Chocobo) as the basis for Mii Fighter costumes rather than as a fighter, and not only not tying them to any specific character, but also for some reason deciding to be weird with how they release them. Of course, I could understand them doing this for one or two costumes, but three or four? All known to be releasing relatively soon and none of them are paired to a specific fighter? Doesn't really make much sense.
The second ideas is that they are paired with a fighter, but the fighter in question has nothing do with with where the costumes are from. Alternatively, the fighter in question is owned by SquareEnix, such characters including 2B, Crono, Lara Croft, Gex, and another Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest character. These arguments also have some gaping holes. If the character has nothing to do with SquareEnix, why would they be released alongside them?
One such counterargument would be that 3 costumes out of a maximum of six wouldn't be too out of the ordinary, which is true. However, this comes into serious question when you consider that this would necessetate the inclusion of Geno's Mii Fighter costume as well, since not including would certainly be odd considering you've included two costumes based on characters that not only originate from the same game as him, but are significantly less popular compared. (No offense to any Mallow or Smithy fans) And a Chocobo Hat.
This would make 4 out of a maximum 6 costumes coming alongside a character that has nothing to do with them. I don't believe they would do this whatsoever, especially if whatever character would also come with costumes of their own. This is also true if the character in question happens to be from a SquareEnix owned IP. Why on earth would 2B not get mostly her own costumes? 9S costume, drone robot thingy hat, automaton costume, YokoTaro moon helmet? I think 2B would have a great selection of potential costumes all on her own, so her coming with 2 maybe 3 Super Mario RPG costumes and a Chocobo Hat wouldn't make much sense.
The third idea is that Geno is, in fact, coming to Smash as a DLC fighter. This would explain the Mallow and Smithy costumes, as well as the lack of mention towards the inclusion of Geno's Mii costume, since such a thing would be reduntant if the real thing is included as a fighter. It would be consistant with how they release costumes alongside their fighters, with the majority having some connection to them, mainly by being from the same series.
Of all three of these ideas, the third one is the most logically sound answer. It fits with what we know from how the DLC has been released thus far, and it's consistent with Sakurai's comment during the Banjo & Kazooie demonstration video about wanting to please the fans, as such fans would indeed be pleased with his inclusion. I understand you don't want to get your hopes up, and honestly I would recommend not getting too excited for this until we know for absolute certain that this is 100% legit. It still could all be a ruse, after all.
But this isn't at all like the Grinch Leak, which was objectively meritless from the beginning but managed to convince people due to a series of well timed coincidences and miscommunication. There's something here that puts it well and above that, that could very well point to what we all want, and it shouldn't be ignored or dismissed or endoursed based on how we personally feel on the matter. Again, I fully agree there's no guarentee it's legit, but if it is well, as the kids say, it's indeed big if true.
Thank you for listening to my dissertation. Exit's on the right, cafeteria is down the hall.
It seems like no matter what leaker you choose to believe, whether it be the Ryu Hayabusa side or the Crash Bandicoot side, one thing seems to be consistent between them. Geno is being talked about.
Brew's source talks about Geno albeit jokingly and Papagenos' source has said that there are SMRPG mii costumes. Then that matches up with that NOA leaker that Fatmanonice
talked about months ago with the... *ahem* bird species that shall not be named and the "Geno watercooler" or whatever it was that was talked about in the "Inner circle".
So overall it seems that hopes should be high for Geno for the additional DLC. I don't know if I got everything right but I'm just trying to recollect everything we've heard about Geno over these past few months.
It seems like no matter what leaker you choose to believe, whether it be the Ryu Hayabusa side or the Crash Bandicoot side, one thing seems to be consistent between them. Geno is being talked about.
Brew's source talks about Geno albeit jokingly and Papagenos' source has said that there are SMRPG mii costumes. Then that matches up with that NOA leaker that Fatmanonice talked about months ago with the... *ahem* bird species that shall not be named and the "Geno watercooler" or whatever it was that was talked about in the "Inner circle".
So overall it seems that hopes should be high for Geno for the additional DLC. I don't know if I got everything right but I'm just trying to recollect everything we've heard about Geno over these past few months.
Was wondering when someone would make the connection of the...berd...
When was this bird brought up again? I am pretty sure it was before this new guy claimed the mii costumes. I am not sure how long before though...Was it towards the beginning of July!? If so, this is starting to line up...
HOWEVER, that Starling was never confirmed to what it was ever pointing to. It was a premature showing that was not suppose to see the light of day, according to our very own Fatman. Assuming it means Geno...things are lining up, albeit slowly.
I don't see what the fuss is really, no matter who is right here all roads lead to geno. Tbh I'd prefer ryu over crash as he seems more interesting as a fighter but I largely didn't care about the extraneous details anyway which is what y'all seem to be focused on. Ryu and crash were both characters I was expecting to see show up at some point after the pass got extended so the when never really mattered, but what does is that we win in every scenario and not seeing that brought up much yet is strange and surprising.
If Crash Bandicoot is the 5th character of the Fighter Pass, it would be virtually impossible to top it. Crash would be the ultimate HOLY CRAP moment you could possibly ask for regarding a guest character. He was the unofficial mascot of the PS1, and his legacy and impact on gaming as a whole is too large to ignore.
Was wondering when someone would make the connection of the...berd...
When was this bird brought up again? I am pretty sure it was before this new guy claimed the mii costumes. I am not sure how long before though...Was it towards the beginning of July!? If so, this is starting to line up...
HOWEVER, that Starling was never confirmed to what it was ever pointing to. It was a premature showing that was not suppose to see the light of day, according to our very own Fatman. Assuming it means Geno...things are lining up, albeit slowly.
I'm hesitant to bring back discussion around the bird again because of all the drama around it, but here's an interesting coincidence that could mean nothing but did come to mind
Wasn't it that the Starling was shared back in July? The same month that this Mii Costume list with the Mario RPG Costumes were being shared around to various people? Once again, it might mean nothing, and Starling might've not been anything Geno/Mario RPG related, but I can't help but wonder...
I'm hesitant to bring back around discussion around the bird again because of all the drama around it, but here's an interesting coincidence that could mean nothing but did come to mind
Wasn't it that the Starling was shared back in July? The same month that this Mii Costume list with the Mario RPG Costumes were being shared around to various people? Once again, it might mean nothing, and Starling might've not been anything Geno/Mario RPG related, but I can't help but wonder...
I just looked up when we were gifted that picture and it was mid July. I am not tagging it because I don't want to bother our fellow boy while he is on break from the boards.
It raises a lot of questions when you really take that list of costumes into consideration.
I love speculating and do not take anything seriously anymore, so I am not bothered by bringing things back up.
Before all this I would have put crash at #4, behind ryu Lloyd and geno but ahead of all the other names in speculation because of how big he is and having popularity in japan, edging out Sora because the Disney conundrum can't really be commented on yet. Now I'm willing to put him on an equal level with ryu and geno with Lloyd at 4. I wouldn't bet on anyone else right now except a hard maybe on sora(where crash was sitting before) and another capcom character somewhere in the distant future because their IP is only second to nintendo in terms of depth for iconic series and smash demand imo.
Also starling was first posted on July 8th for anyone still curious. I'm ~90% sure it was terry related given the projected timing of production and the making of the characters showcase videos not to mention fits the hint in a far more literal way because of the icon like the crab hint. Maybe it was geno but unless he shows up sometime soon I frankly can't see the connection even if we do get him.
Are you truly comparing fortnite, a large casual game, to Dragonquest, the original core JRP lol. You think you’re going to have countless videos of people crying tears of joy for Jonesy? You think DQ views only blew up in Japan because of a meme like fortnite would cause most people don’t want it?
In case you didn’t realize most request polls for smash are largely based on who people think could get in, not an accurate assessment of who would be the biggest most loved character. When I said DQ was the biggest request in Japan, I meant he filled the biggest possible character slot Japan could ask for, even in the realm of characters people didn’t think could be a reality, he’s that ****ing huge. There can be no one bigger. If we’re tiering characters for Japan he is S+ tier while everyone else is a tier below him or more.
You’re conflating popularity in Japan with popularity in the Smash community. Adding Hero was not “fulfilling a long-standing request”, it was adding a character from a well-known, popular franchise. He was in no way a big fanservice pick on the level of Banjo or Crash, he was a very well-received promotional choice.
As for the Fortnite thing, it doesn’t have to be Fortnite. Just replace it in your head with any massive gaming franchise you can think of that’s really popular yet doesn’t have much Smash traction. COD, GTA, LBP, LOL, WOW... basically, what I’m saying here is, fans of a franchise being excited for a reveal does not correlate to them being a massive, long-standing Smash request.
Also starling was first posted on July 8th for anyone still curious. I'm ~90% sure it was terry related given the projected timing of production and the making of the characters showcase videos not to mention fits the hint in a far more literal way because of the icon like the crab hint. Maybe it was geno but unless he shows up sometime soon I frankly can't see the connection even if we do get him.
"It's not KoF related. We now know what it's for but we can't say until the appropriate time. We've been given strict orders not to say its real meaning and I promise I'll say something if and when I'm given the okay to."
Still not tagging him, but you can find this on page 1347. Unless he was being coy because Terry, technically, is from Fatal Fury, but I doubt it.
We are stuck in limbo...unless...we ask the others in the Private Geno Discord (Who wants CHAOS!?) /S /S /S /S /S (Do not not do this)
"It's not KoF related. We now know what it's for but we can't say until the appropriate time. We've been given strict orders not to say its real meaning and I promise I'll say something if and when I'm given the okay to."
Still not tagging him, but you can find this on page 1347. Unless he was being coy because Terry, technically, is from Fatal Fury, but I doubt it.
We are stuck in limbo...unless...we ask the others in the Private Geno Discord (Who wants CHAOS!?) /S /S /S /S /S (Do not not do this)
I'm aware of that quote and yes I believe it was misdirected wording. KoF has not once been mentioned in any official capacity related to smash and terry is treated as fatal fury content explicitly(as it should be it's his game series kof is just a company-wide crossover fighter). Sometime in august the mood around all the ambassadors stuff completely changed and most importantly the narrative of that quote has already been directly challenged as inaccurate by another known member of that discord. I don't know what's going on but clearly something has.
So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I’ve been thinking..
If Crash is our #5, we should assume that these mii costumes would come with it, and why would we have Super Mario rpg costumes with no geno? I’m sorry guys but if it’s like this geno has to be a costume, cause this doesn’t make sense if the costumes are supposed to be with crash
So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I’ve been thinking..
If Crash is our #5, we should assume that these mii costumes would come with it, and why would we have Super Mario rpg costumes with no geno? I’m sorry guys but if it’s like this geno has to be a costume, cause this doesn’t make sense if the costumes are supposed to be with crash
Not necessarily. I looked at this and thought 'Those costumes would/could come with Terry'. We can never roll out the possibility that the costume comes back.
However, these costumes could come with either Terry or Fighter 5 (Crash) along with the Geno one. But that begs the question...why not show these with Hero? Perhaps it would have been too much content for one fighter so they had to divide it up? IDK...its all a bit strange...IF this comes to fruition.
So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I’ve been thinking..
If Crash is our #5, we should assume that these mii costumes would come with it, and why would we have Super Mario rpg costumes with no geno? I’m sorry guys but if it’s like this geno has to be a costume, cause this doesn’t make sense if the costumes are supposed to be with crash
This is something I actually wanted to bring up but forgot, if a bunch of SMRPG costumes come with crash then that would look really bad because there is absolutely no reason as to why they would bundle them with crash of all things and not the SMRPG character. Protoman and zero coming with banjo largely turned me off from believing a capcom character is in the fighters pass so if this were to happen I think geno will feel about as likely as he did in the spring.
What if the guy wasn’t sure whether the SMRPG Mii costume was Mallow or Smithy, since he put it like “Mallow/Smithy” instead of listing them as normal?
I'm aware of that quote and yes I believe it was misdirected wording. KoF has not once been mentioned in any official capacity related to smash and terry is treated as fatal fury content explicitly(as it should be it's his game series kof is just a company-wide crossover fighter).
What if the guy wasn’t sure whether the SMRPG Mii costume was Mallow or Smithy, since he put it like “Mallow/Smithy” instead of listing them as normal?
I dont think so. I feel like if he was not sure he would have said mallow or smithy or would say he did not know. Maybe its listed like that because they could be revealed together. Kinda like tails and knuckles
Not necessarily. I looked at this and thought 'Those costumes would/could come with Terry'. We can never roll out the possibility that the costume comes back.
However, these costumes could come with either Terry or Fighter 5 (Crash) along with the Geno one. But that begs the question...why not show these with Hero? Perhaps it would have been too much content for one fighter so they had to divide it up? IDK...its all a bit strange...IF this comes to fruition.
Because they don't want any negative association with Hero's reveal. People would be upset if Geno's Mii Costume came back because that means he's not going to be playable again and they would blame Hero for that. Nintendo want Dragon Quest XI S to perform great in the west, so when talking about Hero they only want to show off Dragon Quest content and nothing else.
So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I’ve been thinking..
If Crash is our #5, we should assume that these mii costumes would come with it, and why would we have Super Mario rpg costumes with no geno? I’m sorry guys but if it’s like this geno has to be a costume, cause this doesn’t make sense if the costumes are supposed to be with crash
We don't know when the remaining Mii Costumes are supposed to show up. Nothing suggests these would be revealed with Crash. In fact the Crash leak and Mii Costume leak happened at different times. Other than stemming from the same source, there's nothing connecting Mario RPG Costumes with a Crash reveal
I dont think so. I feel like if he was not sure he would have said mallow or smithy or would say he did not know. Maybe its listed like that because they could be revealed together. Kinda like tails and knuckles
So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I’ve been thinking..
If Crash is our #5, we should assume that these mii costumes would come with it, and why would we have Super Mario rpg costumes with no geno? I’m sorry guys but if it’s like this geno has to be a costume, cause this doesn’t make sense if the costumes are supposed to be with crash
Why would anyone assume that a potential Mario RPG costume would come with Crash? You might as well assume it'll come with Terry, ffs...
Crash isn't owned by Nintendo's competitor, and wasn't even really owned by one back when he was the unofficial PSX mascot. He, like Spyro, was owned by Universal Interactive and was purchased by Activision. If Crash comes, we're probably going to get Coco, Cortex, Aku Aku, maybe even something for Spyro. The likelihood of them pulling another Banjo is slim to none.
EDIT: Reading the credits in the Crash 3 instruction manual, I'm wrong - Crash was created and developed by Naughty Dog and published by Universal Interactive.
Because they don't want any negative association with Hero's reveal. People would be upset if Geno's Mii Costume came back because that means he's not going to be playable again and they would blame Hero for that. Nintendo want Dragon Quest XI S to perform great in the west, so when talking about Hero they only want to show off Dragon Quest content and nothing else.
Nintendo and Square alike probably didn't give a hot damn about whether or not Hero had a "negative association" with his inclusion based on Mii costumes or anything. They didn't show a single one of them off when they announced him, anyway. Any negative association he could have POSSIBLY had was gonna die down between E3 and the Hero presentation. Westerners were already gonna scratch their head, and I've already said they probably weren't too worried about upsetting Geno fans or whatever, really, think about it, we've been being upset for how long, now? If it hasn't killed us yet and we still bought the game, what then? Talk about a closed minded view...
One of the only realistic possibilities for why Chocobo and Geno didn't come back when Hero released is that Square has something else coming. If it isn't Geno, that's how it is, but something else. The only other realistic possibility imo is that they just said "screw it" and we're getting neither, and then... we're in the same boat.
I really hope papaG can elaborate some more on the situation like he did for brew, at the very least I would like to know what mallow/smithy is supposed to mean because they aren't interchangeable characters and unless it was only in the planning phase they should know if it's one or the other if it's legit.
Kyo's fakeout was referencing the opening for King of Fighters '94 yes. kof,ff, and samsho all got stuff ripped from it to do all the homages for the video as well as the neo geo load screen but still nothing but fatal fury was tied to terry or for that matter was even brought up at any point during the direct, sakurai video or any promotional material following as far as I'm aware.
I'm aware of that quote and yes I believe it was misdirected wording. KoF has not once been mentioned in any official capacity related to smash and terry is treated as fatal fury content explicitly(as it should be it's his game series kof is just a company-wide crossover fighter). Sometime in august the mood around all the ambassadors stuff completely changed and most importantly the narrative of that quote has already been directly challenged as inaccurate by another known member of that discord. I don't know what's going on but clearly something has.
I think Terry may be repping both fatal fury and KoF. Fatal fury was his origin and on his hat, so that would be the main, but KoF is very important as well. Personally im more familiar with KoF, and that series went much longer than Fatal Fury.
Also his stage has”King of Fighters” in the background, so what logo will be on the stage select screen may be up in the air.
I think Terry may be repping both fatal fury and KoF. Fatal fury was his origin and on his hat, so that would be the main, but KoF is very important as well. Personally im more familiar with KoF, and that series went much longer than Fatal Fury.
Also his stage has”King of Fighters” in the background, so what logo will be on the stage select screen may be up in the air.
I wasn't aware of that but I'd want to see the finished stage before I make a judgement because the king of fighters was also the name for geese's tournament in fatal fury. Either way that point largely doesn't matter as fatman's comments that day do not reflect the current narrative of the private discord on the matter, whatever that happens to mean.
I wasn't aware of that but I'd want to see the finished stage before I make a judgement because the king of fighters was also the name for geese's tournament in fatal fury. Either way that point largely doesn't matter as fatman's comments that day do not reflect the current narrative of the private discord on the matter, whatever that happens to mean.
fatman said they knew all about starling now, psycho said that wasn't true and they didn't know anything yet. Fatman hasn't been on since to say anything more so I highly doubt it will ever continue beyond that publicly so the starling as a hint is largely unhelpful right now and personally I think its already over.
