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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Slender

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Does Square own SMRPG tracks or the composers?
When the info about the music takedowns first came about, a few of us, including me, also wanted to know this.

It's a while back and I don't know exactly where it is, but from what I found is that every original track created for SMRPG is owned by Square. Any remixes of previous Mario themes and songs were from Koji Kondo himself, and would therefore be under Nintendo.

EDIT: Found a screenshot of it! Neat.

 
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MattOnwheels

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Think about it this way, fellas...If he's ever getting in...this is the game.

If the door was ever open...it's open WIDE now.

If he doesn't make it into ultimate's life cycle, you gotta figure there's something very wrong...let's see.

Though, I'm curious...how could we play as him in WOL if he's a spirit? Wouldn't they have to remove him from the game just to add him?
 

TheCJBrine

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Though, I'm curious...how could we play as him in WOL if he's a spirit? Wouldn't they have to remove him from the game just to add him?
They could make it so beating his Spirit has him appear and join you.

Though they could just do the same thing as the other DLC characters since you can have multiple Geno Spirits.
 
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StrawHatX

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Think about it this way, fellas...If he's ever getting in...this is the game.

If the door was ever open...it's open WIDE now.

If he doesn't make it into ultimate's life cycle, you gotta figure there's something very wrong...let's see.

Though, I'm curious...how could we play as him in WOL if he's a spirit? Wouldn't they have to remove him from the game just to add him?
He’d just have a fighter spirit as well as his WOL spirit.

If Geno doesn’t get in after all of this then the only reasonable explanation why is for whatever reason Square won’t let him. And that doesn’t make a ton of sense unless they were so adamant that they wanted only relevant characters. But we already have FF and DQ reps. They can give Sakurai a pass here...
 

EricTheGamerman

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Man, who would've thought that our possible key to success would be Sans Undertale. I didn't think the music takedown meant much of anything at first, but after the Sans costume came with Megalovania, I'm almost certain something's happening with Geno. I'm pretty certain that he's going to be one of those additional DLC characters, it just makes way too much sense. If Geno gets into Smash, yall better be thanking our boy Sans for showing us how Geno can still win.
It's either the possible key to our success or our failure. As people have pointed out, Geno's Mii costume could easily come back with songs (Sakurai just busted open that possibility with Sans too). Or the music takedowns just relates to nothing (I'm really betting on Square Enix being more willing to license music for Super Mario RPG give Shimomura is a much more Nintendo associated artist with less of a pedigree and reputation for being stingy) and Geno comes anyway.
 
D

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Think about it this way, fellas...If he's ever getting in...this is the game.

If the door was ever open...it's open WIDE now.

If he doesn't make it into ultimate's life cycle, you gotta figure there's something very wrong...let's see.

Though, I'm curious...how could we play as him in WOL if he's a spirit? Wouldn't they have to remove him from the game just to add him?
Ehh, the world of light probably wouldn’t matter to them.
 

MattOnwheels

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They could make it so beating his Spirit has him appear and join you.

Though they could just do the same thing as the other DLC characters since you can have multiple Geno Spirits.
But how do-able is that?

To me the spirit thing is the only hangup. If you're going to make someone playable, why make them a spirit?...unless they plan on doing some kind of Story Mode expansion where certain spirits regain their form and offor to fight with you, citing their own personal vendetta. o.o
 

Rie Sonomura

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Think about it this way, fellas...If he's ever getting in...this is the game.

If the door was ever open...it's open WIDE now.

If he doesn't make it into ultimate's life cycle, you gotta figure there's something very wrong...let's see.

Though, I'm curious...how could we play as him in WOL if he's a spirit? Wouldn't they have to remove him from the game just to add him?
Just rename the Spirit to “Geno (Super Mario RPG)” as different Spirit versions of Zelda, Link, Mario etc. exist in WoL

And then either:
A.) if Geno’s in the pass, he’ll be unlocked upon awakening 70 characters
B.) if Geno’s NOT in the pass, you can’t go to 80 or above to free characters. Either placing him somewhere on the existing maps... or even... a map expansion?

and this is part of my inspiration for the WoL expansion being called World of the Four Elements. In my headcanon, Geno would be awakened in the Earth Realm, cause wood comes from trees which are associated with the Earth element

And also if that expansion is Very Hard, even more so
 

TheCJBrine

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But how do-able is that?

To me the spirit thing is the only hangup. If you're going to make someone playable, why make them a spirit?...unless they plan on doing some kind of Story Mode expansion where certain spirits regain their form and offor to fight with you, citing their own personal vendetta. o.o
If Geno is in the new DLC, the spirits were definitely decided before that DLC. We still don’t really know in relation to the current DLC.

As for simply the character being a Spirit, they can do what Rie Sonomura Rie Sonomura said, plus Mewtwo and Lucas were already trophies in Smash 4 before they were added, and they got new trophies while keeping the old ones.

If it’s a matter of artwork for his Fighter Spirit, they can use his sprite, the sprite for his true form (the star), or the artwork in the jigsaw puzzle if they can get it. They could even just stick to his Ultimate render, like Cloud, Wii Fit Trainer, and Robin.
 
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Flik

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Just rename the Spirit to “Geno (Super Mario RPG)” as different Spirit versions of Zelda, Link, Mario etc. exist in WoL

And then either:
A.) if Geno’s in the pass, he’ll be unlocked upon awakening 70 characters
B.) if Geno’s NOT in the pass, you can’t go to 80 or above to free characters. Either placing him somewhere on the existing maps... or even... a map expansion?

and this is part of my inspiration for the WoL expansion being called World of the Four Elements. In my headcanon, Geno would be awakened in the Earth Realm, cause wood comes from trees which are associated with the Earth element

And also if that expansion is Very Hard, even more so
I started a brand new Smash save file when the Hero came out; Every DLC character were available in World of Light once I unlocked 10 characters.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I started a brand new Smash save file when the Hero came out; Every DLC character were available in World of Light once I unlocked 10 characters.
Did you free all characters in another save file though?
 

Flik

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Did you free all characters in another save file though?
Nope, I created I new user just to start the whole game from scratch. P. Plant, joker and Hero were all unlocked at the same time after I unlocked 10 characters in World of Light.

I can see all the other DLC being the same for the sake of simplicity.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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No, all the DLC characters are available once you have 10 characters unlocked. It is not every 10 for every DLC fighter, it's just a base 10 and then any DLC will be added to the WoL roster. I've seen that misinformation thrown around a lot recently for some reason.
 

Evil Trapezium

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if Geno’s in the pass, he’ll be unlocked upon awakening 70 characters
All DLC fighters are available in the World of Light after awakening 10 characters. It'd be pretty insane to have to unlock DLC characters every 10 awakened.
 

GenoToto

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This Spirits thing is one of those weird, malleable 'fan' rules that only really exist because it seemed like a large collective of people decided that that was the rule now, and folks just kinda silently agreed on it. Which is a bit odd, considering that I'm pretty sure there are various Spirits of some of the current fighters that can be found in the overall inventory. But characters like Mario, and K. Rool, and Daisy, they're all still Fighters, even if they do have Spirits.

Not to mention, this is a video game where the programmers kinda dictate the rules and how the world works. Spirits are supposed to be the ghostly remains of a particular character, and yet, I can get as many Dr. Wily's as I wanted, so even if "one" spirit exists, that doesn't mean there certainly can't be more than one.

It's such a hard, frustratingly difficult thing to debate, considering there's never been an official declaration, and yet we're all led to believe that it's officially implied. Which is such a weird thing to say.

I'm going to say for my own personal record that I don't believe that Spirits = Deconfirmation. I feel like Assist Trophies are a much more hard Deconfirm than spirits are, and even that's not necessarily ironclad considering that characters like Little Mac and Isabelle are now in the lineup.

Each time a new game comes out, more of the supposed rules seem to get thrown out, so for our sake, let's hope the trend continues. :ultduckhunt:
 

Icewolff92

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This Spirits thing is one of those weird, malleable 'fan' rules that only really exist because it seemed like a large collective of people decided that that was the rule now, and folks just kinda silently agreed on it. Which is a bit odd, considering that I'm pretty sure there are various Spirits of some of the current fighters that can be found in the overall inventory. But characters like Mario, and K. Rool, and Daisy, they're all still Fighters, even if they do have Spirits.
I wouldn¨t call it a "fan rule" but more of a "look at the pattern" scenario
 

StrawHatX

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This Spirits thing is one of those weird, malleable 'fan' rules that only really exist because it seemed like a large collective of people decided that that was the rule now, and folks just kinda silently agreed on it. Which is a bit odd, considering that I'm pretty sure there are various Spirits of some of the current fighters that can be found in the overall inventory. But characters like Mario, and K. Rool, and Daisy, they're all still Fighters, even if they do have Spirits.

Not to mention, this is a video game where the programmers kinda dictate the rules and how the world works. Spirits are supposed to be the ghostly remains of a particular character, and yet, I can get as many Dr. Wily's as I wanted, so even if "one" spirit exists, that doesn't mean there certainly can't be more than one.

It's such a hard, frustratingly difficult thing to debate, considering there's never been an official declaration, and yet we're all led to believe that it's officially implied. Which is such a weird thing to say.

I'm going to say for my own personal record that I don't believe that Spirits = Deconfirmation. I feel like Assist Trophies are a much more hard Deconfirm than spirits are, and even that's not necessarily ironclad considering that characters like Little Mac and Isabelle are now in the lineup.

Each time a new game comes out, more of the supposed rules seem to get thrown out, so for our sake, let's hope the trend continues. :ultduckhunt:
I feel that these new DLC fighters will be put in to please longtime Smash fans and it doesn’t matter if the character is already a spirit, has a Mii costume, or is an AT.

It’s not difficult to create another spirit for a character that already has one or to have an AT be toggled off if said character is on the battlefield.
 

StormC

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I haven't posted here in a while but I figure I should now.

I honestly did not think we would get more DLC. Straight up, no way. Everything seemed against it, but the success of Ultimate was unprecedented, and thus, more DLC happened. I let my cynicism get the better of me and sometimes arguments in this thread got too heated, with myself being part of it.

I'd like to apologize for some of my previous posts and arguments in this thread, and follow that up by saying: I honestly think this is Geno's time. The costume not returning around the time they would have internally green lit more DLC is a red flag to me. I think it very well could be happening in this second batch of DLC.

Geno getting in would be truly incredible and signal that fan demand can get any character in, no matter how obscure or marred by company politics.

This fanart was from over a year ago, and seems like it very well might come true after all:



It might take several more months, maybe even a year, but his chances are better than ever. I hate to say "it's now or never" but it certainly feels like it.

Good luck.
 

YsDisciple

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This fanart was from over a year ago, and seems like it very well might come true after all:



It might take several more months, maybe even a year, but his chances are better than ever. I hate to say "it's now or never" but it certainly feels like it.

Good luck.
This is one wholesome fanart. It's only a matter of time now for the celestial messenger to make his entrance.
 

MisterMike

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The takedowns didn't mean anything... Until Sans showed up.

Ironic that a character I dreaded actually turned out to be one of the biggest hopes for Geno possible.
Sans being a Mii Costume fills you with determination. :ultpacman:
Also, why isn't there a Sans Mii Costume emote?
 

wynn728

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But how do-able is that?

To me the spirit thing is the only hangup. If you're going to make someone playable, why make them a spirit?...unless they plan on doing some kind of Story Mode expansion where certain spirits regain their form and offor to fight with you, citing their own personal vendetta. o.o
When it came to the current Fighters Pass I believe the five characters were decided really early on and everyone who wasn't going to be playable where turn into Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes and Spirits. Now that more DLC is get made the Spirits won't restrict them because that means there's over 1200 characters they can't pick from because they were PNG. It's like how Trophies themselves won't restrict a character from being playable in Smash 4 so same should happen with brand new DLC. This new DLC should allow just about anyone a second chance.
 

Ovaltine

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I haven't posted here in a while but I figure I should now.

I honestly did not think we would get more DLC. Straight up, no way. Everything seemed against it, but the success of Ultimate was unprecedented, and thus, more DLC happened. I let my cynicism get the better of me and sometimes arguments in this thread got too heated, with myself being part of it.

I'd like to apologize for some of my previous posts and arguments in this thread, and follow that up by saying: I honestly think this is Geno's time. The costume not returning around the time they would have internally green lit more DLC is a red flag to me. I think it very well could be happening in this second batch of DLC.

Geno getting in would be truly incredible and signal that fan demand can get any character in, no matter how obscure or marred by company politics.

This fanart was from over a year ago, and seems like it very well might come true after all:



It might take several more months, maybe even a year, but his chances are better than ever. I hate to say "it's now or never" but it certainly feels like it.

Good luck.
What? I honestly feel you don't need to apologize. I personally never had a problem with your presence in the thread, and a lot of the arguments you had to make, if not all of them, were solid. Don't worry about it, my dude. It's all good!

Honestly, this really does feel like now or never. The stars are aligning now. I always said that I felt he wouldn't happen for base roster and that his chances there were slim, given SE loves their money, so I think his chances have NEVER been better. If he doesn't get in now, I feel like he'll never get into Smash. Everything just feels so... right, just like it felt when things were leading up to Banjo. If that outfit doesn't come, I really think it's his time. If more DLC was greenlit around the time of Hero's inclusion AND the Mii outfit didn't come back then, it really feels like they're trying to get him.

Let's hope that reality comes true. After Ridley, Rool, and Banjo, Geno is all I'm missing before I can literally say, "I will never ask Sakurai for anything again." He's the last jiggy in this picture. I hope it's finally time!!
 

dalolman

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I wouldn¨t call it a "fan rule" but more of a "look at the pattern" scenario
This definitely.
My only shred of doubt aside from all the company shenanigans for Geno getting in is the fact that his Spirit exists.
Now I know Spirits don't deconfirm, but it's just damning to me to see that happen, especially when people start looking at what spirits don't exist, like Porky.
Assist Trophies are definitely a harder deconfirmation, but with even more DLC on the way, it has to be Geno's time to shine. To reiterate StormC, it really is now or never. Banjo and Terry are both revived, along with the beloved newcomers in the base cast(K. Rool, Ridley, etc.), Geno's revival is way past overdue.

By the way, I've been missing since probably Hero's initial reveal, anything I missed?
 

waterhasataste

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Do you guys think Geno would come with 2 tracks or more than that?
Probably 2 from Mario RPG basing off the current pattern. However, if they want to expand the music list, there's still a bunch of Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi tracks not yet in the game they can throw in with Geno
 

Ovaltine

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This definitely.
My only shred of doubt aside from all the company shenanigans for Geno getting in is the fact that his Spirit exists.
Now I know Spirits don't deconfirm, but it's just damning to me to see that happen, especially when people start looking at what spirits don't exist, like Porky.
Assist Trophies are definitely a harder deconfirmation, but with even more DLC on the way, it has to be Geno's time to shine. To reiterate StormC, it really is now or never. Banjo and Terry are both revived, along with the beloved newcomers in the base cast(K. Rool, Ridley, etc.), Geno's revival is way past overdue.

By the way, I've been missing since probably Hero's initial reveal, anything I missed?
Huh? Terry's been around for years. He didn't need to be revived, just added in. You can't revive someone that's still alive and kicking lol.
 

dalolman

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Huh? Terry's been around for years. He didn't need to be revived, just added in. You can't revive someone that's still alive and kicking lol.
Silly me I guess, though I thought the last Fatal Fury game came out in 99, I don't know if he's made any appearances outside of Smash Ultimate since then. I guess you can technically keep your IP alive by releasing everything to other platforms. Correct me if I'm wrong on Terry tho.
 

EarlTamm

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Silly me I guess, though I thought the last Fatal Fury game came out in 99, I don't know if he's made any appearances outside of Smash Ultimate since then. I guess you can technically keep your IP alive by releasing everything to other platforms. Correct me if I'm wrong on Terry tho.
That was when the last Fatal Fury game happened, he has just been in KoF since and is a major player there.
 

MondoMega

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Silly me I guess, though I thought the last Fatal Fury game came out in 99, I don't know if he's made any appearances outside of Smash Ultimate since then. I guess you can technically keep your IP alive by releasing everything to other platforms. Correct me if I'm wrong on Terry tho.
Fatal Fury may have been abandoned; but Terry continued to live on in King of Fighters. That series got yearly installments from 1994 to 2010 (releases are more spread out now).
 

StarLight42

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So. About Geno being a Mii Costume

While the possibility is still there, there's two things that, for me, go against it.

I don't really believe Fatmanonice's sentiment of "the right time to reveal it was Hero's pack" While of course that would've been the most logical time, I don't think Sakurai cares about all that after revealing Isaac and Shadow in the last base game direct.

However, i'd say the notion that Square Enix would willfully have to "bundle" their property with another company's character and put two music tracks and a costume in for just 75 cents doesn't seem very Square Enix like to me at all.
 
D

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This definitely.
My only shred of doubt aside from all the company shenanigans for Geno getting in is the fact that his Spirit exists.
Now I know Spirits don't deconfirm, but it's just damning to me to see that happen, especially when people start looking at what spirits don't exist, like Porky.
Assist Trophies are definitely a harder deconfirmation, but with even more DLC on the way, it has to be Geno's time to shine. To reiterate StormC, it really is now or never. Banjo and Terry are both revived, along with the beloved newcomers in the base cast(K. Rool, Ridley, etc.), Geno's revival is way past overdue.

By the way, I've been missing since probably Hero's initial reveal, anything I missed?
Porky's in, tho. In the Absolutely Safe Capsule. From which he will never escape.
 

Midget Master

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If they're going to try and satisfy fan demands, I think that they will at least take a pretty serious look at doing Waluigi. He may not be like, the most popularly requested, but he turned into a giant meme, and I feel like that sort of thing, they'd like to hit on. But I think that's kind of a lynchpin in whether they're willing to upgrade assist trophies or not - and if they do, I consider Isaac a very likely followup. He's one of the most requested characters in the west remaining.

I think Geno is more or less the ultimate "fanservice" pick at this point. It's hard for me to imagine them passing up on him when their stated goal is to meet fan requests unless Square just completely refuses to play ball. Considering the copyrights with the music on YouTube and such, I would honestly not be TOO floored if he was actually the fifth Fighter's Pass character. But it doesn't really matter that much either way, we'll have to see how it goes.

And I think that spirit characters are 100% back on the table, assuming they were ever really "off" it to begin with. I could see Shantae becoming a character pretty easily - while she may not have quite the sway of other reps, her fighting would be unique in ways that I can imagine Sakurai would enjoy a lot. Not to mention, I feel like they'll be looking to add a female character... although that may just end up being Byleth, lol.

As for much more splashy third party characters, Doom still seems like a really solid choice. It's not unreasonable that they could try and go to the well with Microsoft again (Imagine Sakurai telling us in a demo presentation to go play Halo on the new Project Scarlett or whatever it's called), but I feel like Phoenix Wright could be a really strong pick. Incredibly unique for Smash, people would totally pop off during that reveal, and very strong Nintendo roots. I think Lloyd's got as solid of a chance as ever, but he might take some time if they want to give us a break from the "anime swordsmen". I'd imagine, though, there's at least one surprise pick coming our way, possible #5 in the Fighter's Pass, that just blows our minds. I'm looking pretty well forward to it.
 
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Ovaltine

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I think Geno is more or less the ultimate "fanservice" pick at this point. It's hard for me to imagine them passing up on him when their stated goal is to meet fan requests unless Square just completely refuses to play ball. Considering the copyrights with the music on YouTube and such, I would honestly not be TOO floored if he was actually the fifth Fighter's Pass character. But it doesn't really matter that much either way, we'll have to see how it goes.
I honestly don't think Square will refuse to play ball now, and I say that as one of SE's biggest naysayers.

Looking at this, the DLC for Smash has been INSANELY lucrative for them. Sakurai did wonders for DQ by putting it in Smash. He even got Square to break their own rules about multiple DQ heroes in one single game. Square was the one who even suggested the alts. That's a huge deal. They even got a bunch of music by negotiating two songs per hero's game. It's done so much for DQ, giving it that popularity boost in the west that it so desperately needed. I have no doubt that DQXIS is gonna be selling like hot cakes now. Between Smash and the demo, I can safely say DQ has a solid place in the hearts of westerners now, which isn't just a short-term gain for SE. That's a massive long-term gain that even they couldn't achieve. Sakurai did it.

Geno got a spirit in the base game, the only one apart from Mallow and the bare minimum for Cloud in terms of SE properties. They absolutely didn't need to do that, but they allowed it. After what Sakurai did for DQ, I really do believe they'll be willing to add Geno now, especially since he'd be a nice cherry on top of their profit sundae for Smash Ultimate. DQ's treatment in Smash and everything it's done for them exceeded their expectations. It'd be so sweet to see the return of the ol' Nintendo and Square Enix alliance by burying the hatchet and bringing Geno back home. Sakurai helped them so much, and I feel that even they'd be willing to do this much now.

At this point, I really believe that getting Geno in is all on Nintendo and Sakurai now, and with Sakurai's comments about wanting to bring in fan-pleasers, I think that spells only good news for our boy.
 
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dalolman

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If they're going to try and satisfy fan demands, I think that they will at least take a pretty serious look at doing Waluigi. He may not be like, the most popularly requested, but he turned into a giant meme, and I feel like that sort of thing, they'd like to hit on. But I think that's kind of a lynchpin in whether they're willing to upgrade assist trophies or not - and if they do, I consider Isaac a very likely followup. He's one of the most requested characters in the west remaining.

I think Geno is more or less the ultimate "fanservice" pick at this point. It's hard for me to imagine them passing up on him when their stated goal is to meet fan requests unless Square just completely refuses to play ball. Considering the copyrights with the music on YouTube and such, I would honestly not be TOO floored if he was actually the fifth Fighter's Pass character. But it doesn't really matter that much either way, we'll have to see how it goes.

And I think that spirit characters are 100% back on the table, assuming they were ever really "off" it to begin with. I could see Shantae becoming a character pretty easily - while she may not have quite the sway of other reps, her fighting would be unique in ways that I can imagine Sakurai would enjoy a lot. Not to mention, I feel like they'll be looking to add a female character... although that may just end up being Byleth, lol.

As for much more splashy third party characters, Doom still seems like a really solid choice. It's not unreasonable that they could try and go to the well with Microsoft again (Imagine Sakurai telling us in a demo presentation to go play Halo on the new Project Scarlett or whatever it's called), but I feel like Phoenix Wright could be a really strong pick. Incredibly unique for Smash, people would totally pop off during that reveal, and very strong Nintendo roots. I think Lloyd's got as solid of a chance as ever, but he might take some time if they want to give us a break from the "anime swordsmen". I'd imagine, though, there's at least one surprise pick coming our way, possible #5 in the Fighter's Pass, that just blows our minds. I'm looking pretty well forward to it.
Honestly, I think Sakurai just doesn't like Waluigi at this point, and that's perfectly fine.
 

ForsakenM

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I knew there was a reason why I absolutely loved the Treasure Trove Cove Remix.

*takes a deep breath*

IT'S BECAUSE THE GREATEST VIDEO GAME COMPOSER OF ALL TIME REMIXED ONE OF THE BEST TRACKS OF ALL TIME FROM ANOTHER ONE OF THE GREATEST VIDEO GAME COMPOSERS OF ALL TIME~!

Smash is a goddamn blessing.
 

FalconFire93

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I knew there was a reason why I absolutely loved the Treasure Trove Cove Remix.

*takes a deep breath*

IT'S BECAUSE THE GREATEST VIDEO GAME COMPOSER OF ALL TIME REMIXED ONE OF THE BEST TRACKS OF ALL TIME FROM ANOTHER ONE OF THE GREATEST VIDEO GAME COMPOSERS OF ALL TIME~!

Smash is a goddamn blessing.
Yup, Yoko’s work is amazing and the remix sounded something like you’d hear when playing through Destiny Island on Kingdom Hearts. :grin:
 
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