Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The boss designs of SMRPG were so fun which is why I was so pissed at the lack of creativity in bosses in the last three Paper Mario games (Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Paper Jam). The Mario RPGs are usually the most creative when it comes to content and characters but there's a side of me that feels like it has steadily been getting worse. Mario RPG, Thousand Year Door, and Super Star Saga were the best of their respective series but the Mario RPGs seem to almost be having an identity crisis as of late.

At least Bowser's Inside Story gave Fawful some closure.

The bland characters issue was Miyamoto's doing. I specifically remember this, because I remember being very upset with him for meddling in one of my favorite series (PM). I believe the info came from a Iwata Asks, but I'm not sure.

The gist was, Miyamoto told Intelligent Systems to only use existing Mario characters in Sticker Star. Why? I forget, but it was NOT a very good reason, from what I remember. The other issue was that, originally, what would become Sticker Star was very much unique and with unique characters, and was similar to TTYD. But that was Miyamoto's problem with it: "It was just like the Gamecube game."

Like that was much of an issue in a series only 3 games old...but he mucked around in the process of the new game's creation, and the result was Sticker Star. Now, IS has no idea where to go with PM anymore. It apparently can't be an RPG because Mario & Luigi does that, but it can't be a platformer, either. It can't create new characters, and the stories are barebones and as uninteresting as the mainline Mario games (not a good idea for an RPG.) And all of this is because of Miyamoto. It's a reminder that, in all the good his touch can do for a game, it can just as easily ruin it.

Sorry, rant over, lol. This is a sore subject for me, as you can see...

Reminder that Miyamoto had any presence of Rosalina (except the ending) gutted out of Super Mario Galaxy 2, because the first had "too much story", so we ended up with Grimace the Luma.

Between this and Star Fox Zero, it's clear that Miyamoto is pretty much "old man yelling at cloud" tier these days.

 

[domriver]

I'm hoping the hurricane we're expected to get over here doesn't prevent me from watching it on Thursday.

:X if its not one thing it is another.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, Miyamoto is a genius and one if not the most important icon in the history of gaming but there are some times I really do wish he'd just STFU. The three main things that drive me up a wall about him are 1. his handling of the Mario RPGs post Super Paper Mario 2. his miserably inconsistent vision for Star Fox and 3. how he lost interest in F-Zero but won't let anyone else work with the IP. At least he did a good job of passing the torch for Mario, Zelda, and DK.

 

[JarBear]

Yeah, Miyamoto is a genius and one if not the most important icon in the history of gaming but there are some times I really do wish he'd just STFU. The three main things that drive me up a wall about him are 1. his handling of the Mario RPGs post Super Paper Mario 2. his miserably inconsistent vision for Star Fox and 3. how he lost interest in F-Zero but won't let anyone else work with the IP. At least he did a good job of passing the torch for Mario, Zelda, and DK.

It kind of reminds me of George Lucas and Star Wars, specifically the prequels. Great ideas and concepts, but needed someone to be the director to help the Movie side of things .... acting, lines, jokes, character development, etc.

As for Mayomota, he has the game ideas and just needs someone to be the story maker.

 

[Fenriraga]

I'll always be miffed by Miyamoto having a hand in making Paper Mario a shadow of its former self. And I'll also always be irked by the fact that he took the only main line character with an interesting story () and retconned her story in Galaxy 2.

I'll always love and admire the man, but no developer is above criticism.

 

[ZelDan]

I'll always be miffed by Miyamoto having a hand in making Paper Mario a shadow of its former self. And I'll also always be irked by the fact that he took the only main line character with an interesting story () and retconned her story in Galaxy 2.

I'll always love and admire the man, but no developer is above criticism.

Is that Rosalina story retcon actually true? I thought SMG2 was just supposed to be an alternate story, not a replacement.

 

[Klimax]

Yeah, Miyamoto is a genius and one if not the most important icon in the history of gaming but there are some times I really do wish he'd just STFU. The three main things that drive me up a wall about him are 1. his handling of the Mario RPGs post Super Paper Mario 2. his miserably inconsistent vision for Star Fox and 3. how he lost interest in F-Zero but won't let anyone else work with the IP. At least he did a good job of passing the torch for Mario, Zelda, and DK.

While I agree with you, I think that the F-Zero case is tricky. The last games sold poorly and as Miyamoto said, they don't have ideas to modernize the franchise. This is not Mario Kart, they just can't say "let's make a sequel, even if we don't add anything new to the game, it will be a hit". To make the idea of a new F-Zero legit in the eyes of the investors, they have to bring something new to the table. Maybe I'm just naive, but I still think that when they'll have a new idea for F-Zero, they'll make a sequel.

Anyway, I just though about something. They were supposed to broadcast the direct at midnight (European hours). Maybe because one of the characters that they'll reveal is not popular in Europe... Like Geno ? I want to believe.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Miyamoto is an innovator, he always tries to think outside the box and find new ways to play or make use of a concept, Nintendo is what it is today thanks to that mentality. Unfortunately that also means he's not someone for repeating things, even if they worked really well (Paper Mario), and it also becomes a problem when a series needs to keep it simple and not have some innovative gimmick (Star Fox Zero).

I admire his mentality a lot, but there's a time and place for everything, and in the modern gaming landscape where games don't evolve drastically at a conceptual level from sequel to sequel anymore, but rather the first game in the line sets the standard and the next builds off of it, there's not as great a need for that philosophy as there used to be.

That's not to say his vision is outdated, I still believe he's got it in him, he just needs to better understand when to dial things back and which projects that really call for his philosophy.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Although there is hope for story telling in future nintendo games. Yoshiaki Koizumi the new guy running a lot of things at nintendo loves story. He's the one who wrote Rosalina's back story! And I think some of the great changes to games like zelda and mario are in part because of his doing.

So I think he'll probably do something to save paper mario next time they start making one.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Is that Rosalina story retcon actually true? I thought SMG2 was just supposed to be an alternate story, not a replacement.

I don't know about how the lore of Mario Galaxy is supposed to be, but Rosalina is still in the game, it's only that you find her as a bonus at the end of the game when you complete it at 100% instead of having her with you since the beginning.
I always thought that at the end of the first Galaxy game, the universe was "resetted" and the events of Galaxy append again in Galaxy 2 (the star festival happend again even if it's supposed to happen once in a very long time, can't remember how many years).
In this new timeline Mario didn't met Rosalina, but they still have memories of their last adventure, and when you meet her at the end of the game they remembered what happend.
Mario Galaxy is not retconned, the comet observatory appears in other games and Rosalina appears in every spinoff game along with lumas... it's just that the story was rewritten because the universe exploded at the end of the game (or at least that's how I see it).

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Anyway, I just though about something. They were supposed to broadcast the direct at midnight (European hours). Maybe because one of the characters that they'll reveal is not popular in Europe... Like Geno ? I want to believe.

I don't think they take us Europeans into account when it comes to Direct times, we're not as big of a target audience as America or Japan. The Direct where they announced Ultimate to begin with was at the same time as this one was supposed to be.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

^ I would prefer to have it at midnight here in America anyways since I'm going to be at work when it comes on. xD

At least then I'd be able to see it live. =P

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Although there is hope for story telling in future nintendo games. Yoshiaki Koizumi the new guy running a lot of things at nintendo loves story. He's the one who wrote Rosalina's back story! And I think some of the great changes to games like zelda and mario are in part because of his doing.

So I think he'll probably do something to save paper mario next time they start making one.

Guy's got a solid track record, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiaki_Koizumi
Though you can feel he got the short end of the stick on DK Jungle Beat.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I'm not sure, but I remember an interview of some sort that revealed that Koizumi was the one who had most of the innovative ideas for Majora's Mask even if Aonuma took the merits.
I think both the time gimmick and the wedding of Anju and Kafei come from him.

Koizumi is cool, it would be nice if he had more decisional power over the classic Nintendo franchises.
I miss Gunpei Yokoi too but you know, he can't come back for obvious reasons.

Miyamoto has been important to Nintendo but I don't like his vision anymore. Especially when he makes stuff like WiiMusic (a game that plays itself and you are only required to mash random buttons, what's the point of it? There's not even that feeling that you are the one who's playing, the game does a lot of stuff automatically).

 

[Bendario]

I hope this isn't turning into a Miyamoto hate thread, especially considering his heavy positive involvement in SMRPG. Everyone has a few bad games or weird choices under their belt. No dev is flawless.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Miyamoto is the reason Super Mario RPG didn't turn into a sword and sorcery game like Square originally planned

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I don't think anyone hates Miyamoto, he's the reason why a lot of games we love exist in the first place.
It's just that I think he lost his inspiration since the Wii generation and I don't like most of his more recent decisions/ideas.

If you mean WiiMusic, then yes, I hate that game, but that's a different thing.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Well, I decided to look up that Iwata Asks, and it looks like Miyamoto wasn't the only culprit in the decline of PM. Even the dev team itself seemed to think the story wasn't important:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/papermario/0/2

Apparently, they got Club Nintendo feedback saying the story of Super Paper Mario wasn't interesting...I guess I can see that, to a point. The stories of PM are far simpler than other RPGs. But moreso than story, it's the unique environmental and character design that seems to be a huge draw for the series. And that definitely was Miyamoto's decision to change for the worse.

Granted, the team said they liked the restrictions, so...I guess it's a wash, lol. Maybe PM was destined to decline...

Anyways, it's true we've skewed well off topic here, and I feel a lot of that is my fault for stoking those simmering flames of resentment about PM's fate. And for that, I apologize--this thread should be a positive place, about Geno and his inclusion in Smash! So perhaps it's best we get back to that now.

Still...I do hope this Mario RPG "curse" doesn't affect a possible Seven Stars sequel...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Still...I do hope this Mario RPG "curse" doesn't affect a possible Seven Stars sequel...

I figure that it's best not to capture lightning in a bottle a second time, given what happened after Chrono Trigger.

That said, I'm sure Geno might get a bright future in Smash.

 

[skydogc]

I figure that it's best not to capture lightning in a bottle a second time, given what happened after Chrono Trigger.

That said, I'm sure Geno might get a bright future in Smash.

Could be true. I still miss that battle system and feel of the game and world.
I miss the original Chrono Trigger as well like that.

Still, wosh we couldve had another game with Geno and Mallow as playable characters. If not maybe at least they can make cameos (more than the minigame geno was part of before).

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Could be true. I still miss that battle system and feel of the game and world.
I miss the original Chrono Trigger as well like that.

Still, wosh we couldve had another game with Geno and Mallow as playable characters. If not maybe at least they can make cameos (more than the minigame geno was part of before).

Yeah, that's probably what makes us all so critical of the newer PM games--that nostalgia and longing for the kind of experiences we once had. Because those experiences were amazing, and memorable.

But as KirbyWorshipper2465 said, sometimes it's best not to try to recapture that lightning in a bottle. Not that it isn't possible (Sonic Mania proves it most definitely is,) but it's incredibly risky. It may not be worth possibly tarnishing our feelings of the series as a whole (much in the way another Sega game, NIGHTS: Journey of Dreams did...) In the case of SMRPG, a sequel could almost never capture that feeling correctly, especially with how much Mario has evolved since. I mean, he didn't even have a voice back then, lol.

All that said, I was just thinking about how a game starring Geno could work. Reduce Mario and other recurring series characters to cameos, and shift the focus to new content, crafted in the FEEL of an RPG set in the Mario universe (i.e., how SMRPG's content was created, including Geno.) Mallow could be in it, as well as many enemies/bosses from SMRPG, Booster, the moles, etc. And in being told from Geno's perspective, you could change the tone and aesthetics to a more serious vibe, without it seeming weird. Think how they did the Mario Strikers series, but with an RPG. It could be an opportunity to interpret the Mario universe in a new way, using familiar characters and elements to ground it and make it approachable. They did it with Mario and Rabbids--Why not with SMRPG?

I'd call it "Legend of the Seven Stars: subtitle." Leave Mario's name out to distinguish it, but link it to the previous game, and Geno.

Edit: just realized, the best way this could be done is the Luigi's Mansion route. Remove the Mario name, have Mario himself captured or otherwise removed, and create a bunch of unique characters (the ghosts, E. Gadd) lore, settings (the mansions), and adjust the tone.

And just like that, you have a brand new offshoot series in the Mario canon, that does its own thing and no longer needs Mario (Dark Moon lacks him entirely.)

 

[Iko MattOrr]

If Geno is in Smash, I want one of his moves to be him extracting an item from his hat and using it.
It would be cool if he has a move that transforms the opponent into a scarecrow for like 2 seconds too.
A scarecrow character would only be able to jump and move (bouncing), unable to attack even if he's holding an item (even the hammer!).

 

[Loz18-Echo]

What to give my support as I haven't done so before

Question to all if a Smash reveal happens in the direct would you think Geno could be reveal or would he be better suited for the last character reveal? sorry if this has been asked before

 

[Welshy91]

Getting Geno would be sufficient, but if I had to ask for anything else from SMRPG, it'd be a Culex AT.

 

[tyrus+]

What to give my support as I haven't done so before

Question to all if a Smash reveal happens in the direct would you think Geno could be reveal or would he be better suited for the last character reveal? sorry if this has been asked before

I'm one of the people that just want Geno to be revealed as soon as possible, because the leaks and speculations are killing me at this point.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

I'm one of the people that just want Geno to be revealed as soon as possible, because the leaks and speculations are killing me at this point.

Yeah. I wish I could enjoy the hype train and relax like the K. Rool and Ridley fans. They're so lucky.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I think we could get Geno sooner rather than later. And it makes sense with the reveals so far that they're steadily building hype towards his reveal.

If they blew their load with Geno first, before Ridley and K. Rool, you would pretty much expect them to follow. But by revealing Ridley first, there's still the question about K. Rool. With the reveal of K. Rool, there's still the question about Geno.

I don't think we're going to have to wait that much longer.

 

[Funktastic]

I think we could get Geno sooner rather than later. And it makes sense with the reveals so far that they're steadily building hype towards his reveal.

If they blew their load with Geno first, before Ridley and K. Rool, you would pretty much expect them to follow. But by revealing Ridley first, there's still the question about K. Rool. With the reveal of K. Rool, there's still the question about Geno.

I don't think we're going to have to wait that much longer.

I've wanted Geno as a dream character since Brawl, I'd love to have your optimism right now!

 

[valkiriforce]

I'd hope we get to hear about him appearing sooner than later, but as long as he's actually in the game I'd be all right with them revealing him later. So far though all these leaks and posts about Geno are really making me hope all of this gets blown away when he finally gets revealed.

Lately I've just been replaying Super Mario RPG what with all the excitement - made it to Booster's Tower recently and I'll probably continue it shortly.

 

[grizby2]

so what have you guys been doing to pas

What to give my support as I haven't done so before

Question to all if a Smash reveal happens in the direct would you think Geno could be reveal or would he be better suited for the last character reveal? sorry if this has been asked before

despite his legacy among the smash community (the reason why he'd be a great finale reveal), I think we'd see him sooner. I say this because most casual gamers these days wouldn't be as hyped to see geno as much as all of us on smash boards (unless I'm under estimating them!)

but ANY smash news is good at this point. im jonesing over here!

 

[FooltheFlames]

Here is the Bowser video: https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/index.html

Here is the bowser battle theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tFWZYTzh_Y

Okay quoting this again cuz i think it correlates to this:

The way Bowser has been pushed around + the music in his trailer has me wondering if it was actually Geno who was going to be revealed in the 9/6 direct! :0

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Honestly if Both Banjo and Geno are in the game I feel like one of those two will be saved for last, but not both. One of them will definitely come sooner rather than later. But I'm not sure which.

These Smash reveals seem to be focusing on getting one exciting character revealed, and then one EXTREMELY exciting character revealed. So I think one of them will be tacked onto a presentation in which Skull Kid or Isaac are revealed... not to downplay either of those characters, but them getting in isn't nearly as huge as Geno or Banjo considering their status as characters that were once thought to be pipe dreams.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Okay quoting this again cuz i think it correlates to this:

The way Bowser has been pushed around + the music in his trailer has me wondering if it was actually Geno who was going to be revealed in the 9/6 direct! :0

Unique fighter

Echo fighter

The stage connected to the unique fighter

It’s that simple

 

[Klimax]

Okay quoting this again cuz i think it correlates to this:

The way Bowser has been pushed around + the music in his trailer has me wondering if it was actually Geno who was going to be revealed in the 9/6 direct! :0

Hmm, that's interesting ! I hope you're right. I'm so hyped, that's crazy !

 

[AugustusB]

Okay quoting this again cuz i think it correlates to this:

The way Bowser has been pushed around + the music in his trailer has me wondering if it was actually Geno who was going to be revealed in the 9/6 direct! :0

I saw that earlier! Something is certainly a foot.
Which now that is a curious thing. If Geno was the reveal, who do you think the FINAL reveal would be if not our boy Geno?

 

[kingkalamari]

Okay quoting this again cuz i think it correlates to this:

The way Bowser has been pushed around + the music in his trailer has me wondering if it was actually Geno who was going to be revealed in the 9/6 direct! :0

That video makes me think a pokemon rep seems more likely, given Exeggutor being the blog post before and no pokemon music yet, but here's hoping it is Geno!

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Y'know, it's worth noting that our expectations with each Smash announcement have been completely blown apart. We expected the usual cuts, and we got everyone. We thought there would only be a few newcomers and assumed we'd only get 1 and a few echoes in the August direct, but we got double that.

And now, we're assuming there will only be 1 newcomer and possibly an Echo in this direct, because it isn't a Smash direct. But it's entirely possible we may get far more. Sakurai seems intent on making sure we can guess nothing that's coming.

Now, I'm not saying we should expect more. More like we shouldn't bother trying to predict anything at all. Because, if I have learned anything this Smash...it's that we will be wrong.

 

[AugustusB]

Y'know, it's worth noting that our expectations with each Smash announcement have been completely blown apart. We expected the usual cuts, and we got everyone. We thought there would only be a few newcomers and assumed we'd only get 1 and a few echoes in the August direct, but we got double that.

And now, we're assuming there will only be 1 newcomer and possibly an Echo in this direct, because it isn't a Smash direct. But it's entirely possible we may get far more. Sakurai seems intent on making sure we can guess nothing that's coming.

Now, I'm not saying we should expect more. More like we shouldn't bother trying to predict anything at all. Because, if I have learned anything this Smash...it's that we will be wrong.

This. Sakurai has blown our expectations through the roof. Still, good to be level headed, but get ready for your body to be rocked!

 

[Slender]

Unique fighter

Echo fighter

The stage connected to the unique fighter

It’s that simple

I was thinking Newcomer, Memory, Stage/Assist Trophy.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Guys Geno time is near hopefully but for now we have this