Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Qeomash]

Remakes of sprite based games are rarely even as good as the original. I would rather see Geno in Smash, and added to future Mario games, than a SMRPG remake.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I guess that Smash running on "playing with toys" logic leads to different interpretations of characters, since using your imagination can naturally have that happen.

Though it is skewed with FE, seeing as Sakurai is a fan of the series on paper, but more or less rewrote some of the characters that are included, so it feels more like a fanfic version of them at this stage. Lord knows what would happen if he got to do a FE installment.

Don't forget the different Marios, Luigi, Links, Pikmin, etc and etc....

And , whose only spirits are of he, himself.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

If I had to choose between Geno in Smash or one sequel to SMRPG I'd still pick Smash but if it were Geno in Smash or SMRPG becomes an actual series that gets games every now and then then I'd pick the latter so hard. No offense but it'd be way too easy for Nintendo to screw up one sequel but if they have multiple chances it's more likely that they'll get it right...maybe. Maybe if the sequel was mostly done by Square Enix and Nintendo just said "yeah you can use Mario characters" then it might be worth it.

 

[StarLight42]

It doesn't count because reasons, same with Kaptain K. Rool

This is why I find this argument to be silly and dumb. ConSPIRITSy theorists tend to point out how “uhh it wudnt make senze if a spirid was playabel” yet it also makes zero sense having alternate forms of characters as spirits when they are the same character.

Like, for example, LOZ 1 Link being a spirit makes sense, considering LOZ BOTW Link is the playable one.

However Mario (Mario Tennis Aces), Kaptain K. Rool, and numerous others don’t make sense because these ARE the same characters.

Now i’m waiting for a conspiritsy theorist to try to explain to me how Smash Mario and Tennis Mario are from different dimensions or whatever the ****

 

[Rohanx17]

Honestly I have zero faith in square or alphadream to make a good smrpg2 so even then it's smash all the way, but plenty of other characters I like would probably swing the other way. Even if it was still mediocre I'd take resolving the cliffhanger ending of dark dawn over a guaranteed fighter slot for Isaac, since I wanted him in more for series awareness anyway i dont really have a favorite adept.

 

[Bob-Omber]

I just realised theres

Don't forget the different Marios, Luigi, Links, Pikmin, etc and etc....

But the thing is is that the captain k rool and the wii fit poses are seperate from the normal k rool and wii fit trainer herself while one of the petey piranha spirit is of just petey piranha himself with no differences

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I just realised theres


But the thing is is that the captain k rool and the wii fit poses are seperate from the normal k rool and wii fit trainer herself while one of the petey piranha spirit is of just petey piranha himself with no differences

I mean Kaptain K. Rool isn't a separate character. It's the same guy.

 

[Bob-Omber]

Theres also how nabbit, pauline, and the earthbound chimera, are stage hazards and spirits

 

[Ovaltine]

A lot of people see Geno as a character who appeared in one game over 20 years ago. They see him as a character that is dead, and should stay that way. But if the relationship between Nintendo and Square didn't dissolve, we could be looking at something TOTALLY different here. There is no doubt in my mind that Geno would be a household name by now among all Mario fans and video game fans in general. He could have been one of the most unique and lovable characters of all time within the mario series. He could have easily appeared in more sequels (maybe even a prequel that focuses on his backstory and such), mario party games, mario kart games, and of course smash! He is prolly the coolest mario character in my opinion and is the most interesting. He had HUGE potential and I believe 100%, that he would be among the regular mario family as we know it today, if it weren't for stupid fighting among the two companies.

I honestly doubt he'd get THAT much more just on the grounds of being an RPG character... but then again, he and Mallow were the first of their kind. If they'd been utilized more (such as PM originally being SMRPG2, so who knows if they would've had roles), it might have set a different precedent for the RPG OCs instead of the neglect they face today. The pendulum could have gone either way.

Even if they didn't get much more, though, I think things could have been so much different. Geno, at the very least, would have been in Smash since Brawl. We might have even gotten Mallow in Sm4sh. If the demand for them went even farther, then it really could have been such a different outcome... which makes it feel like my boys were jipped of an incredible future just because corporate was being too pissy about their toys.

 

[NintendoKnight]

This is why I find this argument to be silly and dumb. ConSPIRITSy theorists tend to point out how “uhh it wudnt make senze if a spirid was playabel” yet it also makes zero sense having alternate forms of characters as spirits when they are the same character.

Like, for example, LOZ 1 Link being a spirit makes sense, considering LOZ BOTW Link is the playable one.

However Mario (Mario Tennis Aces), Kaptain K. Rool, and numerous others don’t make sense because these ARE the same characters.

Now i’m waiting for a conspiritsy theorist to try to explain to me how Smash Mario and Tennis Mario are from different dimensions or whatever the ****

I'm here trying to figure out how people can explain the coexistence of Assist Trophies and the spirits of those exact characters. Heck, stage bosses like Metal Face have spirits yet are totally in the game in their respective stages.

Also, how do non-living items like Super Mushroom and Starship Mario have spirits? And how can prominently dead characters be converted into spirits, such as Tabuu and Subspace Emissary enemies? And how is it possible to have more than one of the SAME spirit?

The explanation of the spirits is supposed to be a fun little story bit, not a hard fast rule. Otherwise, why would we have the same characters in varying Spirit states such as Samus with different suits or Mario's various power-ups? Because they are the replacement form of trophies.

 

[xpnc]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, this "spirits deconfirm" argument has gotten me so tired of responding that I've gone and created the ultimate resource to shut it down

https://imgur.com/a/U9ZrQrG

Behold, every single character who appears in multiple spirits, including some that are literally marked as being the same character wearing a slightly different outfit. If Mario (Tennis) can be in the game then they can change the current Geno spirit to Geno (Super Mario RPG). Prove me wrong. You can't.

 

[wynn728]

Petey is part of Plant's final smash, but it is clearly his physical form that has "joined" the real world fighting alongside the fighters.

I don't want to dive too much more into this discussion regarding spirits and DLC fighters, but I do think people put too much stock into the Spirits, Fighters and DLC debate. Spirits are essentially the replacement of trophies and shouldn't be read so deeply about what possibilities there are, or not, regarding the current DLC or even future DLC if Nintendo decides.

Well every Assist Trophy has s Spirit yet there are no trophies. I don't blood know explanation for that sort of stuff, but I'm willing to believe that a character is a Spirit because there was no current plan for them in this Fighters Pass. If there's more DLC then of course this Spirit debate doesn't matter, the Assist Trophy won't be a restriction as well. We'll see what happens, just don't expect much.

 

[SSGuy]

Petey is part of Plant's final smash, but it is clearly his physical form that has "joined" the real world fighting alongside the fighters.

I don't want to dive too much more into this discussion regarding spirits and DLC fighters, but I do think people put too much stock into the Spirits, Fighters and DLC debate. Spirits are essentially the replacement of trophies and shouldn't be read so deeply about what possibilities there are, or not, regarding the current DLC or even future DLC if Nintendo decides.

Doesn't Toad also have a spirit then while being apart of Peach's moveset? Same with Boney and others Mother characters.

 

[StarLight42]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, this "spirits deconfirm" argument has gotten me so tired of responding that I've gone and created the ultimate resource to shut it down

https://imgur.com/a/U9ZrQrG

Behold, every single character who appears in multiple spirits, including some that are literally marked as being the same character wearing a slightly different outfit. If Mario (Tennis) can be in the game then they can change the current Geno spirit to Geno (Super Mario RPG). Prove me wrong. You can't.

Some of these actually made me laugh. Like how conspiritsy theorists think that Yoshi (Egg) and Yoshi (Eggless) are not the same character

 

[xpnc]

conspiritsy theorists

Not gonna lie I thought this was a galaxy brain typo for a second

 

[Deleted member]

Some of these actually made me laugh. Like how conspiritsy theorists think that Yoshi (Egg) and Yoshi (Eggless) are not the same character

Not to mention that Yoshi even uses eggs in his Moveset. Whoops looks like we're going to have to change that move to something else!

It's absurd but still I'm not on either side for Spirits Disconfirm.

 

[N3ON]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, this "spirits deconfirm" argument has gotten me so tired of responding that I've gone and created the ultimate resource to shut it down

https://imgur.com/a/U9ZrQrG

Behold, every single character who appears in multiple spirits, including some that are literally marked as being the same character wearing a slightly different outfit. If Mario (Tennis) can be in the game then they can change the current Geno spirit to Geno (Super Mario RPG). Prove me wrong. You can't.

The shorthand might be that "spirits deconfirm" but the argument isn't that a character can't be both a Spirit and a character. The argument is if the Spirit happened first, playability won't follow. It's like the Mii Costume argument from last time. Which ended up being true.

Whether the theory ends up being correct or not, this doesn't address what people are actually arguing.

 

[Bob-Omber]

Doesn't Toad also have a spirit then while being apart of Peach's moveset? Same with Boney and others Mother characters.

I feel like toad might not count because they might be different toads but with Peteys case you know that theres only one of him so theres no uncertainty

 

[xpnc]

The argument is if the Spirit happened first, playability won't follow.

Here I was thinking it was actually based on something rather than being pulled from the aether

 

[Firox]

I have to disagree. Where's my new F-Zero? Falcon's been in every Smash and F-Zero is dead. And heck, people don't even like real Captain Falcon, they like Captain Falcon Punch. A completely different character. Just because a few characters got lucky doesn't mean all of them will. In fact, most of them don't. And a lot of the time, I hate to say it, Smash portrays characters poorly. And as a result people get the wrong idea of them. When they star in their own game, chances are they will be portrayed right and you will get an even deeper understanding for who that character is. There's no guarantee that Geno would ever appear again after Smash. We're talking about Square Enix here.

But yeah, I guess a remaster is not that big of a deal. But if it was a sequel, then absolutely. If you had a choice between Geno in Smash and a brand new SMRPG game starring Geno... Well the choice is clear.

And like I said before, both is what everyone wants. But in a hypothetical genie wish kind of thing where you can only get one and never the other, I'd choose the new game.

Tragically, in the case of Cap Falcon and several others, Nintendo is sometimes painfully negligent with their IPs. I would kill for a new high def sequel to Earthbound, or Golden Sun, or several other franchises, but alas, Nintendo often thinks that the only IPs worth investing in are Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. Great as they are, a lot of franchises are getting slept on either way. Still, if any character has a chance at making it big, Smash is the place to start.

 

[StarLight42]

The shorthand might be that "spirits deconfirm" but the argument isn't that a character can't be both a Spirit and a character. The argument is if the Spirit happened first, playability won't follow. It's like the Mii Costume argument from last time. Which ended up being true.

Whether the theory ends up being correct or not, this doesn't address what people are actually arguing.

This seems like goalpost shifting then, because everytime I brought up the Kaptain K. Rool spirit, i'd get a lecture from conspiritsy theorist about how "uhh Kaptain K Rool and Smash k rool are different characters" It's why I made that joke earlier, because I have actually seen people argue that.

 

[wynn728]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, this "spirits deconfirm" argument has gotten me so tired of responding that I've gone and created the ultimate resource to shut it down

https://imgur.com/a/U9ZrQrG

Behold, every single character who appears in multiple spirits, including some that are literally marked as being the same character wearing a slightly different outfit. If Mario (Tennis) can be in the game then they can change the current Geno spirit to Geno (Super Mario RPG). Prove me wrong. You can't.

Okay, with the ones that appear twice but holding onto an equipment, like Pit and Yoshi, those aren't the Spirit of that character it's the Spirit on that item. There isn't a picture of the Three Sacred Treasures by themselves, so a picture of Pit using them has to be used as the Spirit.

Current DK is different from the arcade Donkey Kong.

That Ike one you have are Fighter Spirits, so that's different.

There are many different incarnations of Link & Zelda throughout 3 different timeline. (That one going to be a good defense).

There's more than just one Pokemon (I can have a team of 6 Mewtwos. Where's your Arceus now oldman?)

The ones of Samus are the Spirits of her suits, not her. There aren't picture of the suits by themselves.

There's multiple Inklings.

For the Piranha Plant and Petey Piranha not being a Fighter Spirit section, none of the other MegaMans are Fighter Spirits yet they show up in the Final Smash so it doesn't matter.

The Wii Fit Trainer ones are Spirits of the poses, not the characters.

Okay final one (kill me already with @$$pull of mine) as we see that Galeems attack it capture characters that came from different timeline. It was an attack that transcend time and space which is why it was able to get just about anyone. So let's just say that each individual game (whether it's a sequel) is consider to be a unique point of time with a time that can be connected and/or separate. So with the ones like Kaptain K. Rool and Tenis Mario could've been captured by Galeem since they were separate timeline from King K Rool and Mario.

*Important Note related to the time & space comment*
Now is this a stretch, sure but I did come up with it in 2 minutes so it wasn't that hard. But there's some true to that considering that Smash Bros does transcend time & space. We got three different Links who each from different timelines. Simon & Richter are together despite Simon being Richter's great great grandfather. I don't need to bring up any points about the Fire Emblem & Dragon Quest crew since they all came from different times and stuff. Time & Space is bend so out of wack in the Smash Bros Universe, so my alternate timeline isn't that much of a stretch considering the ones who are in the roster. Explain that crap without saying it's because of alternate timelines. (You could say they're just figures that some kid is playing with but that doesn't apply to Ultimate universe since Sakurai said it was different from the other games).

AGAIN, these Spirits could become fighters, I just don't think it's going to be this Fighters Pass since stuff was planned out.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, this "spirits deconfirm" argument has gotten me so tired of responding that I've gone and created the ultimate resource to shut it down

https://imgur.com/a/U9ZrQrG

Behold, every single character who appears in multiple spirits, including some that are literally marked as being the same character wearing a slightly different outfit. If Mario (Tennis) can be in the game then they can change the current Geno spirit to Geno (Super Mario RPG). Prove me wrong. You can't.

I actually didn’t notice the Ike thing before, this is definitely a solid argument

I’m guessing neither are his fighter spirit?

 

[Zinith]

The fact that a MOVE is a spirit and it's represented by my boi still ****s with me

 

[xpnc]

I actually didn’t notice the Ike thing before, this is definitely a solid argument

I’m guessing neither are his fighter spirit?

they are both fighter spirits but you unlock both no matter which costume you beat it with. I really don't see a reason why they can't change what they've already put in for Geno

 

[N3ON]

Here I was thinking it was actually based on something rather than being pulled from the aether

It's based on people reasoning that since DLC was decided prior to release, if a character was intended to be playable, they would've saved that spirit for later. Which makes more sense than thinking people were unaware that Mario had a spirit, which apparently was your belief.

 

[domriver]

In an effort to stimulate discussion, I posit the following question: If you had to pick another Mario RPG character to be in smash, who would you choose, and what would their moveset be?

Hardmode: you can't pick mallow, fawful, boshi or booster.

So Geno is in and now we have to decide another SMRPG Character
the following comes to mind quickly.
Queen Valentina - move sets could be magic base - ice attacks, kiss attack, dodo attack - final smash be slap attack with a huge slap at the end.

Smithy ( disguise version ) - His hammer or sledge whatever that is can be his primary weapon - heavy character - terrible recovery - pure power - special attacks can be star power - star rain - his final smash he turns into his real form and unleashes a powerful attack.

Boomer - im thinking metaknight with out the wings - Boomer doesn't come off as a heavy character even though it may seem heavy. His sword (ugh another sword character lol) would be his primary weapon - something special for this guy i mean he is Smithy's right hand man? correct me if im wrong.

Axem Rangers - they have a wide range of attacks - final smash can be them getting on Blade and using their weapon.

Captain Johnathan - His Trident can be his weapon - strikes to me as a Ganondorf feel - height/weight wise and recovery - final smash can be him summoning that tentacle monster or his shark pirates.

These 5 in no particular order come out.

ahhh its good to dream. LOL

 

[N3ON]

This seems like goalpost shifting then, because everytime I brought up the Kaptain K. Rool spirit, i'd get a lecture from conspiritsy theorist about how "uhh Kaptain K Rool and Smash k rool are different characters" It's why I made that joke earlier, because I have actually seen people argue that.

Unless you were arguing that Kaptain K. Rool would become playable as DLC, this sounds like you were engaged in a debate about something else. Maybe that playable characters couldn't have multiple Spirits? That's different than what the aforementioned theory I raised suggests.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

We're all civilized people here, surely. Can we just quit arguing over whether a png determines a character like a bunch of children and just enjoy the fact that this game even exists and that we still have at least 2 or more characters joining the roster at some point? As much as I want Geno, you guys aren't helping because at this point, I don't really care who gets in. I'm hoping that recent rumor regarding possibly Doomslayer, Crash Bandicoot, and Geno comes true because I'd be ok with that roster line up.

Hate to be that guy but someone needs to say it. Spirit canon is garbage and World of Light is blah blah blah. These arguments are pointless in the end.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I just want to know what Sakurai will say in February so that we can all just

 

[AugustusB]

We're all civilized people here, surely. Can we just quit arguing over whether a png determines a character like a bunch of children and just enjoy the fact that this game even exists and that we still have at least 2 or more characters joining the roster at some point? As much as I want Geno, you guys aren't helping because at this point, I don't really care who gets in. I'm hoping that recent rumor regarding possibly Doomslayer, Crash Bandicoot, and Geno comes true because I'd be ok with that roster line up.

Hate to be that guy but someone needs to say it. Spirit canon is garbage and World of Light is blah blah blah. These arguments are pointless in the end.

Are you talking about that Star one? That would honestly be the best line up. Period. Also the bosses they listed sound incredibly viable.

Also, back in the day, someone found 16 WoL slots for characters and one of those slots was Piranha Plant. Do we know if Joker and Hero took up those slots as well? And if so, did Hero's alts take up a spot as well?

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Are you talking about that Star one? That would honestly be the best line up. Period. Also the bosses they listed sound incredibly viable.

Also, back in the day, someone found 16 WoL slots for characters and one of those slots was Piranha Plant. Do we know if Joker and Hero took up those slots as well? And if so, did Hero's alts take up a spot as well?

Yeah, I'm referring to the Star one. You know that "first-party" boss it mentions? I have four predictions on what it could be if the leak is legitimate (doubtful, but eh, let's entertain the idea).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Are you talking about that Star one? That would honestly be the best line up. Period. Also the bosses they listed sound incredibly viable.

Also, back in the day, someone found 16 WoL slots for characters and one of those slots was Piranha Plant. Do we know if Joker and Hero took up those slots as well? And if so, did Hero's alts take up a spot as well?

Nah, the alts only take up slots among the 29 IDs, not the 16 WOL character slots.

Someday I hope that PokéfreakofBACON makes a stickied masterpost thread in regards to the relevant datamines, so that the confusion about them would be reduced drastically.

 

[AugustusB]

Nah, the alts only take up slots among the 29 IDs, not the 16 WOL character slots.

Someday I hope that PokéfreakofBACON makes a stickied masterpost thread in regards to the relevant datamines, so that the confusion about them would be reduced drastically.

That is what I had figured, but was not 100% certain. And bosses take up the 16 slots as well if memory serves, correct?

EDIT: Glitch-EGamer could you provide a link of the 'leak'? I cannot seem to find it.

 

[GrungeMan]

I mean Kaptain K. Rool isn't a separate character. It's the same guy.

I think in the booklet for DKC2 he may be referred to as King K. Rool's brother, but I'm not quite sure about that to be honest.

Edit: Nvmd. That brother comment was apparently in the trophy description for K. Rool in Brawl. Not sure if that's cannon or not though.. Seems very confusing when looking into it.

 

[N3ON]

We're all civilized people here, surely. Can we just quit arguing over whether a png determines a character like a bunch of children and just enjoy the fact that this game even exists and that we still have at least 2 or more characters joining the roster at some point? As much as I want Geno, you guys aren't helping because at this point, I don't really care who gets in. I'm hoping that recent rumor regarding possibly Doomslayer, Crash Bandicoot, and Geno comes true because I'd be ok with that roster line up.

Hate to be that guy but someone needs to say it. Spirit canon is garbage and World of Light is blah blah blah. These arguments are pointless in the end.

It's easy to preach taking the higher ground, but then why are you liking posts that contribute to a discussion you find childish, uncivilized, and pointless?

Engaging in discourse doesn't strip this thread of civility. All things considered this seemed like one of the more well mannered disputes considering this thread is no stranger to histrionics and becoming overly combative.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

It's easy to preach taking the higher ground, but then why are you liking posts that contribute to a discussion you find childish, uncivilized, and pointless?

Engaging in discourse doesn't strip this thread of civility. All things considered this seemed like one of the more well mannered disputes considering this thread is no stranger to histrionics and becoming overly combative.

Because I can like anything of my choice and don't have to have accusations jabbed towards me for things I like? If I find said post to be worthwhile and somewhat decent, so be it. Get that like. It's fair arguments. Although I prefer a particular side a bit more, I have stated not once but TWICE that we have no way of determining whether those rules apply or not because the DLC isn't done and I don't have a side picked. A guy can dream or is that not allowed either?
Excuse me for getting tired over bickering about a rule that holds strong but isn't fact and it's impossible to tell whether it'll stay that way for the rest of the pass. It's the same melody being played at a different time of day. It's repetitive. Sorry for my opinion.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

You're talking about the one where the SMRPG remake would be like the Final Fantasy 7 remake, correct?

I know I'm pretty late on this, but I would so want a Super Mario RPG remake like the FF7 remake. Like in FF7 remake, you can switch your party members you play as. Now think about that in SMRPG... Only three of the five party members can be out, like in the original SMRPG, and you can play as one of them and switch off; in this case, you can play as Mallow himself or even Geno. I like it when Mario gets the Final Fantasy treatment, and even if it doesn't have to be like the FF7 remake, I'm fine with a remake sticking with its original gameplay formula.

Tragically, in the case of Cap Falcon and several others, Nintendo is sometimes painfully negligent with their IPs. I would kill for a new high def sequel to Earthbound, or Golden Sun, or several other franchises, but alas, Nintendo often thinks that the only IPs worth investing in are Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. Great as they are, a lot of franchises are getting slept on either way. Still, if any character has a chance at making it big, Smash is the place to start.

Am I the only one in here that wants another Nintendogs? (Yes, I'm serious) I really enjoyed Nintendogs on my DS, and I'd love one for the Switch. I understand this is part of Mario, but I want another Mario x Final Fantasy sports game again. Mario Hoops 3-on-3 was so fun, and I crave for another Mario x Final Fantasy sports game developed by Square, along with the artwork being done by Tetsuya Nomura again; I love the artwork Nomura did with Mario Hoops 3-on-3, so seeing him do artwork for Mario again would be a blessing.

I would rather see Geno in Smash, and added to future Mario games, than a SMRPG remake.

I'd rather see all three! I'd take a SMRPG remake or sequel first, Geno and Mallow added in future Mario games, and then have Geno as a playable character in Smash. Good things come to those who wait, and I'm up for waiting if I knew Geno and Mallow were returning in a game.

 

[wynn728]

Wait... are people taking that 4chan leak that mention Crash & Geno? Have we not learn 4chan leaks are not to be trusted?

 

[Deleted member]

Are you talking about that Star one? That would honestly be the best line up. Period. Also the bosses they listed sound incredibly viable.

Also, back in the day, someone found 16 WoL slots for characters and one of those slots was Piranha Plant. Do we know if Joker and Hero took up those slots as well? And if so, did Hero's alts take up a spot as well?

What Star one? I haven't heard anything about that but it does sound good.