Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Firox]

It's kind of interesting to watch support swell for different characters based on their perceived chances. Like Geno, for example. Prior to the Brawl era, he was a cult favorite, adored by those that knew him, but still relatively obscure. Based on the newcomers to Melee and Brawl, it was uncertain what kinds of things would hint toward inclusion. During that time, I remember people thinking that newcomers would pretty much just be expansions to already-present franchises. Melee had Falco, and Brawl had Wolf. Brawl introduced MK, DDD, Diddy Kong and Lucas. For a while, I figured that was the pattern. Just more from each franchise. Then came Sonic and Snake. Two HUGE third parties dropped like a nuclear bomb and opened up the floodgates for characters that weren't even from Nintendo. The scope of fan support began to spread like wildfire. What was the limit now?

Then came Sm4sh. We had newcomers coming from the most random places like Wii Fit and Duck Hunt. Third parties opened up to Namco, Capcom and *gasp* SQUARE ENIX??!! What was the freaking limit now??!! With every new addition, people delved even deeper into potential inclusions. Even the most obscure of all was starting to seem possible. Still, there were hold-outs like Ridley that even Sakurai himself deemed unworthy to add. Even with SE now playing ball, there was still a question as to where the lines would be drawn.

....And then along came Ultimate. The king mac-daddy of them all. To immediately shatter the ceiling, who else but Ridley should get in!? Sakurai demonstrated that the fans could be heard and that even he could compromise to bring the hype. From then on, it was one impossible after another. Krool. Then Banjo. With every conceivable limit destroyed, the fans were free to dream of literally anything. Even if not for this game's DLC, the prospect of future Smash games seems now to be an open book. From Dixie to Shadow, Shantae to Sephiroth, fans seem to be springing up for anyone and anything that hasn't already made it in. Anything can happen and Geno's chances have never been better. It's a great time to be a Smash fan!

 

[MisterMike]

Quick question for you all: Would you still want Geno in Smash if Super Mario RPG 2 came out and it turned out in that after the first game, Geno cheated on his star wife?

 

[ChoccyStar]

Quick question for you all: Would you still want Geno in Smash if Super Mario RPG 2 came out and it turned out in that after the first game, Geno cheated on his star wife?

With whom? A yoshi? A nimbus citizen? Valentina?

 

[wynn728]

Also, I don't think being a spirit ruins his chances much in his case because:
1. "Spirits can't be fighters" is another fan rule, and they've been repeatedly broken by Sakurai since the announcement of the game.
2. Geno's true form canonically is a spirit that possesses a physical body so it makes sense in his case.
3. I'd argue Chrom being in Robin's Final Smash despite the former being playable is more weird than a character being both a fighter and a spirit.

And I say that characters are only Spirits because there was no plans to make them playable. Each DLC character brings it's own Spirit Board, so if they're a Spirit then they're not part of the Fighters Pass.

People will bring up Trophies and Mewtwo & Lucas point to Spirits not deconfirming characters, but Trophies took a lot of time to make and was made early on while DLC for Smash 4 was decided near the end of development so the whole Trophies didn't matter and they weren't going to remove them because of the time it took. Smash Bros Ultimate DLC was planned out in advance when compared to Smash Bros 4 (Mewtwo took 7 months to release while Joker took 4 months to release) and Spirits take no time at all to make. So if the character is a Spirit that definitely means that character wasn't consider to be part of the Fighters Pass.

 

[MisterMike]

With whom? A yoshi? A nimbus citizen? Valentina?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

So if the character is a Spirit that definitely means that character wasn't consider to be part of the Fighters Pass.

citation needed

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm tired of going over this Spirits argument but I'll just list my usual main points:

1. Sakurai knew about Nintendo's DLC plans since January 2018, and he didn't plan DLC himself before that.

2. We don't know when spirits were done, so they could've been done before 2018, especially since there's more than just the spirits themselves but modes that they have including WoL.

3. Considering Spirits would've been in the project plan for the game, which was in December 2015, it's possible Sakurai could've tried negotiating for certain Spirits before 2018 as well, so they could still be open for DLC since it gives him another chance to get certain characters if Nintendo lets him. He seems to have had some form of control over the DLC so Geno could've possibly been a choice Nintendo had in mind and let him make.

 

[Ovaltine]

My only stipulation for the incoming tidal wave of rubbish coming with spirits being brought up yet again... is this:

Positive or negative, a well-informed perspective and an educated guess =/= fact. These are completely different things.

That is all. Carry on.

 

[xpnc]

People will bring up Trophies and Mewtwo & Lucas point to Spirits not deconfirming characters, but Trophies took a lot of time to make and was made early on while DLC for Smash 4 was decided near the end of development so the whole Trophies didn't matter and they weren't going to remove them because of the time it took.

The Lucas trophy is just the Brawl model and the Mewtwo trophy looks almost identical to the X&Y model with different lighting and updated eyes

 

[ForsakenM]

Would Crispin Freeman be too over the top for Geno? Who does the voice for Edward Elric in Full Metal Alchemist?

Vic Mignogna is facing a lot of accusations of harassment towards female fans and coworkers, while Byleth's male voice actor (Chris Niosi) admitted to being abusive towards friends, colleagues, and significant others. A lot of anime voice actors also work in games, but hiring people with that kind of a history doesn't seem like a great idea. At the very least, it would be a bad PR move.

Spoiler: Thicc Vic Post

Not to get TOO crazy here, but so far it's been nothing but photoshopped pictures, proof of civil conspiracy with persons involved working together to make said photoshopped pictures, slander over the internet with persons involved constantly calling him horrible things that have yet to be proven true, and in these most recent stages people who were involved having actual un-doctored evidence of getting touchy and kissy with minors, dispositions that make the accusers look like they would have a motive due to jealousy, and documentation from Funimation that shows that not only did they possibly break some policies with how they terminated Vic if his contract looked the same as others but also may have been involved in trying to spread the slander to give a reason to let him go.

I say this as someone who thinks that what Vic is being accused of is very serious, but doing any research shows that there is nothing to back up the accusations and it seems like another case of outrage culture at it's finest. That said, I agree that hiring him to work on Smash right now would maybe not be the best decision, but you also have to consider that Japan's culture is much different than ours. Many manga-ka and Harada-san have gone on record to poke fun at and mock how our culture gets upset over every little thing, and if Sakurai is calling the shots, he could easily not care and work with Vic. Not sure about Kirbopher since he's actually admitted to his crimes, but so far Vic is looking pretty innocent.

I tried to quote/reply to people but it's not working now for some reason.

EricTheGamerman I've been following this situation since it first started. I have to disagree that they have nothing to gain by lying: it's called winning and being 'right' and justified in their actions. We currently live in a culture where getting likes and retweets is more important than being correct or polite and it's easier to bandwagon than ever. Also, you are currently just wrong about Vic suffering less. His accusers, should he be proven innocent, will hopefully get their just desserts, but currently none of them have suffered like he has. He's lost his job with both RT and Funimation, been removed from most cons (so his biggest forms of income were destroyed in mere days), has had those he thought were his friends slander him on social media like crazy for over a month before it started to die down. It was sudden and swift and the aftermath has put him from a healthy friendly man to someone who needs to be prescribed medication for anxiety and depression. It's been on record that certain individuals have tried to shutdown and have harassed directors of other conventions that have invited him in this wake, and it's also been on record that individuals involved not only work for Funimation outside of VA contracts but also seem to hint at feeling like they have been in his shadow.

There is plenty to gain, even if it's literally just momentary internet fame and points.

Didn't mean for this to go in so deep, but I'm constantly keeping myself engaged with this one in particular. I also want to apologize for being late on this one: I'm starting training for my job and it occupies me from 6AM to 2:30 PM for the next 3 weeks until I get a schedule that fits more like 8 to 4/5. Regardless, I won't just be on here at any time, so I may be late to conversations and I apologize for any bad timing

There was someone else here for has a Sweetie Bell pfp who's name I can't remember, but that video had me laugh up until it was Geno w/Steve. Steve really does have a lot going for him, but I don't think there will be another MS rep in Ultimate. If there is, I still think it's a tough choice between MC and Steve. Regardless, I was ready to be miffed because it seemed like the video might have been using Geno to represent Geno fans as being ridiculous or entitled. It wasn't until Geno broke down about Square holding him hostage and Steve comforting him and telling him that 'he must mean a lot to a lot of people to be supported for this long' (sorry for the paraphrase) that got my eyes to well up a bit. Then I laughed and said hell yeah when Geno responded with 'Yeah, it's cuz I'm awesome!'

Geno is awesome!

One day we will meet in the sun with our blue puppet boi, and on that day we need to make sure we ALL work to grant the wish of our Golden Sun brothers.

 

[wynn728]

citation needed

Sakurai did say that the Spirits are the actual characters that lost their bodies and are unable to return to the real world to join the fighters.
Sakurai also said that Spirits are suppose to be way to enjoy characters other than fighters.
Sakurai also said that this is applied this mysterious world that is Smash Bros Ultimate and that all Spirits can do is enhance Fighters, but can't join them.
And I'll bring in this quote that Spirits are "Characters that lost their physical forms, except fighters." So that means if you're a Fighter you can't lose your physical form in the world of Smash Bros Ultimate which is why all the DLC are character who aren't Spirits.

From a lot of ways he describes Spirits it does lean more towards them not being playable at all.

 

[Fenriraga]

Sakurai did NOT have plans for DLC in Smash 4 beyond Mewtwo. The man himself said it. Yet Lucas still happened despite having a trophy. Who knows how Mewtwo even came about, on top of that. They were NOT a part of the project plan.

If you're going to make assumptions, at least get some actual evidence besides made up fan rules and vauge statements meant to make Spirits sound cool/marketable.

 

[wynn728]

The Lucas trophy is just the Brawl model and the Mewtwo trophy looks almost identical to the X&Y model with different lighting and updated eyes

It still took time regardless. It's not that simple to port over a model from the Wii to 3DS or a model that uses a completely different engine. And I said that when making those trophies they did it before even entertaining the idea of DLC. They say it takes 10 months to make a character, well Mewtwo released 7 months after the 3DS release so they disregard the trophies when deciding on Mewtwo being the first DLC character. Smash Ultimate is different since they had to get the rights to all these third party characters in advance, so it was decided upon during the development which means they had a great idea on who going to be playable and who was going to be a Spirit.

 

[xpnc]

Sakurai did say that the Spirits are the actual characters that lost their bodies and are unable to return to the real world to join the fighters.
Sakurai also said that Spirits are suppose to be way to enjoy characters other than fighters.
Sakurai also said that this is applied this mysterious world that is Smash Bros Ultimate and that all Spirits can do is enhance Fighters, but can't join them.
And I'll bring in this quote that Spirits are "Characters that lost their physical forms, except fighters." So that means if you're a Fighter you can't lose your physical form in the world of Smash Bros Ultimate which is why all the DLC are character who aren't Spirits.

From a lot of ways he describes Spirits it does lean more towards them not being playable at all.

https://i.imgur.com/Z0PkUyS.png

Personally, my favourite completely separate characters from Pit are Pit drawn in the 1980s and Pit wearing armour. It's a shame that these disqualify him from being playable.

What actual character lost their body for these two spirits? Just drop it

 

[TheCJBrine]

I hope there's more videos showing Steve be friendly, like how he was friendly to Geno in the Smash Kingdom video.

I'm tired of those Grotesque Steve memes portraying him as some villain when that render could instead be an imposter since rude fake fans or some very immature fans (which all fanbases have) are the only ones that used it to annoy others. I honestly found the render itself funny originally, but it got to an extent where I just don't like it, and I wish I could see the real Steve fight alongside Banjo and beat the grotesque man down.

Smash Ultimate is different since they had to get the rights to all these third party characters in advance, so it was decided upon during the development which means they had a great idea on who going to be playable and who was going to be a Spirit.

DLC plans were known to Sakurai and the devs in January 2018.

Ultimate's project plan finished in December 2015.

 

[Ze Diglett]

There was someone else here for has a Sweetie Bell pfp who's name I can't remember, but that video had me laugh up until it was Geno w/Steve. Steve really does have a lot going for him, but I don't think there will be another MS rep in Ultimate. If there is, I still think it's a tough choice between MC and Steve. Regardless, I was ready to be miffed because it seemed like the video might have been using Geno to represent Geno fans as being ridiculous or entitled. It wasn't until Geno broke down about Square holding him hostage and Steve comforting him and telling him that 'he must mean a lot to a lot of people to be supported for this long' (sorry for the paraphrase) that got my eyes to well up a bit. Then I laughed and said hell yeah when Geno responded with 'Yeah, it's cuz I'm awesome!'

Geno is awesome!

Yeah, I actually really liked how Steve was portrayed in that video. Rather than go the cheap and easy "Troll Steve" route, they made him a respectful and laid-back survivalist who has no interest in fighting for sport. I like that. It's a nice change from how Steve's usually portrayed in the fandom.

 

[wynn728]

https://i.imgur.com/Z0PkUyS.png

Personally, my favourite completely separate characters from Pit are Pit drawn in the 1980s and Pit wearing armour. It's a shame that these disqualify him from being playable.

What actual character lost their body for these two spirits? Just drop it

You know what, fine. I'll drop, but if any of the last two characters aren't Spirits and they're completely done with Ultimate I will be taking a victory lap.

 

[xpnc]

You know what, fine. I'll drop, but if any of the last two characters aren't Spirits and they're completely done with Ultimate I will be taking a victory lap.

Yes I'm sure you'll feel really good about yourself in the scenario that Geno isn't playable considering the lengths you go every day to try and convince us all the same thing

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

You know what, fine. I'll drop, but if any of the last two characters aren't Spirits and they're completely done with Ultimate I will be taking a victory lap.

Unhid my “ignored” posts because i could tell someone was posting some really dumb **** and I regret it immediately. You’re delusional and the thread is a joy with you on ignore

Carry on

 

[JarBear]

Let's keep things civil everyone.

We do not know if Geno will be the one of the two remaining DLC fighters. Maybe Sakurai and his team has decided if there is a Spirit of a fighter, he is disqualified. We do not know and just have to hope and wait patiently to see if he will be unleashed or not. Let's taper our expectations.

From all the arguments and counter arguments regarding DLC, Spirits and fighters ... there is one "rule" that Sakurai himself has said. "Video game characters only" ... so no Goku, Spongebob, etc." Other than that, in theory, anything is fair game for DLC.

 

[ForsakenM]

Sorry, my sleep brain got distracted, but I have to ask.

What do you guys think of the Smash Con announcements?

 

[Ovaltine]

Sorry, my sleep brain got distracted, but I have to ask.

What do you guys think of the Smash Con announcements?

Waluigi in SSF2 is super cool to see.

... Now gimme Geno, suckahs!

 

[MattX20]

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument here that Geno turns out to be the 4th character of the Fighter Pass and he's revealed in the September Direct. What date in September would you comfortably guess is when it airs/when during the direct would you guess the reveal occurs?

 

[xpnc]

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument here that Geno turns out to be the 4th character of the Fighter Pass and he's revealed in the September Direct. What date in September would you comfortably guess is when it airs/when during the direct would you guess the reveal occurs?

9/26. The Thursday after Link's Awakening

 

[MattX20]

9/26. The Thursday after Link's Awakening

Going by the previous 2 years for September Directs, I'm going to say no later than the 12th

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument here that Geno turns out to be the 4th character of the Fighter Pass and he's revealed in the September Direct. What date in September would you comfortably guess is when it airs/when during the direct would you guess the reveal occurs?

I suspect we'll get the September Direct in the first week of September like last year's was initially planned to be. Astral Chain launches on August 30th and the next big release for Nintendo is Daemon X Machina on September 13th. That gives about two weeks between games for them to sort of work with however they want outside of their most heavily advertised titles (the only other game of note that launches in this period is Spyro Reignited on September 3rd). It gives them a chance to also address the remaining big releases of September with quick information updates prior to launch too since Daemon X Machina, Link's Awakening, and Dragon Quest 11 S could probably use a little bit more information.

I'm also wondering if we might finally see SNES titles get added to the online service now that we're coming up on the year anniversary of Nintendo Switch Online and the NES titles have just been so poorly received as of late. They usually update the service at the beginning of the month, so I could see them working that in as well.

So I'm going to say September 5th will be the date of the September Direct this year haha.

 

[wynn728]

Unhid my “ignored” posts because i could tell someone was posting some really dumb **** and I regret it immediately. You’re delusional and the thread is a joy with you on ignore

Carry on

You're going to make me blush. But this board will become a dumpster fire again when it turns out Geno isn't part of the Fighters Pass or a Bonus Fighter. That happened when Lupin Leak turned out to be fake (and still fake) and happened again when EVO revealed nothing.

Yes I'm sure you'll feel really good about yourself in the scenario that Geno isn't playable considering the lengths you go every day to try and convince us all the same thing

I already felt crappy when I saw that Geno was a Spirit. I've already accepted the fact that every character that I really wanted is dead. I'm not going to feel bad that Geno isn't playable because I knew it about it ever since November. I already done my grieving, I'm not falling into the same trap again like the rest of the people who didn't read the sign.

Again, I would love to be wrong. I welcome it. I would love for Geno to be playable, he was on my bingo card, but just like 75% of my most wanted character it just ain't going to happen.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Sakurai did say that the Spirits are the actual characters that lost their bodies and are unable to return to the real world to join the fighters.
Sakurai also said that Spirits are suppose to be way to enjoy characters other than fighters.
Sakurai also said that this is applied this mysterious world that is Smash Bros Ultimate and that all Spirits can do is enhance Fighters, but can't join them.
And I'll bring in this quote that Spirits are "Characters that lost their physical forms, except fighters." So that means if you're a Fighter you can't lose your physical form in the world of Smash Bros Ultimate which is why all the DLC are character who aren't Spirits.

From a lot of ways he describes Spirits it does lean more towards them not being playable at all.

Doesn't make it not an assumption that spirits cannot be playable characters. Until sakurai himself says so.

 

[wynn728]

Doesn't make it not an assumption that spirits cannot be playable characters. Until sakurai himself says so.

It's all bloody applied. Sakurai said that he no long going to say whether a character is deconfirm or not because then he has to explain why everyone wasn't decided to be playable. So he's going to make statements that people understand the meaning without him giving the direct statement.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

there is one "rule" that Sakurai himself has said. "Video game characters only" ... so no Goku, Spongebob, etc." Other than that, in theory, anything is fair game for DLC.

This is what Sakurai said about this topic during the pre-Brawl era, from Nintendo Soup, GoNintendo

“It is impossible for manga characters to join (Super Smash Bros.).

While we can accept characters from other companies, we cannot, under any circumstances, take in anything and everything under the sky. That’s because (Super Smash Bros.) is a game that requires everyone’s cooperation.”

Now a translation from his book. https://www.resetera.com/threads/sa...velopment-dlc-more-in-his-recent-book.119020/

He knows some are serious, but he doesn't think characters like Iron Man and Goku will happen. (p27)

So according to this, it's not because he wants to keep the roster full of video game characters, it just seems that video game characters are easier to cooperate with, instead of the hassle of trying to get "Manga characters" specifically. I'm sure he means 4th party characters though.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

All I'm gonna say is that it's interesting that its easier for some people to go up to bat for the celebrity under serious accusations rather than the average woman with no power who supposedly got taken advantage of.

But yeah; Geno should just make star-ish noises. Like star bit speak.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Fart

WAHT DID JHE MEAN BY THISS??¿¿¿

No but really, You keep coming and forcing a lot of people to lose their faith in Geno because you did so, what's your problem. Also yeah.. It's ok if that's your opinion, but you always talk like you're giving some FACTS. That's where you're all wrong.

Were you forcing Ridley fans, Krool fans and Banjo fans to surrender with you cuz they were "impossible" to get in Smash too?

 

[Ovaltine]

While viewing things from a realistic perspective is fine (which, yes, means that spirits could indeed deconfirm, as that could be a very real situation), there's a line to draw in the sand before it gets to be shoveling complaints down peoples' throats ad nauseum. Realism is fine. Heck, even pessimism to a degree is fine.

That being said, here's the cold hard fact about this whole situation:

This is so ridiculous. Alexa, play Booster's Tower.

 

[maf91186]

WAHT DID JHE MEAN BY THISS??¿¿¿

No but really, You keep coming and forcing a lot of people to lose their faith in Geno because you did so, what's your problem. Also yeah.. It's ok if that's your opinion, but you always talk like you're giving some FACTS. That's where you're all wrong.

Were you forcing Ridley fans, Krool fans and Banjo fans to surrender with you cuz they were "impossible" to get in Smash too?

No. He wasn't. Not that I remember anyway.

Though I may have blocked it from my memories

 

[StarLight42]

I hope there's more videos showing Steve be friendly, like how he was friendly to Geno in the Smash Kingdom video.

I'm tired of those Grotesque Steve memes portraying him as some villain when that render could instead be an imposter since rude fake fans or some very immature fans (which all fanbases have) are the only ones that used it to annoy others. I honestly found the render itself funny originally, but it got to an extent where I just don't like it, and I wish I could see the real Steve fight alongside Banjo and beat the grotesque man down.



DLC plans were known to Sakurai and the devs in January 2018.

Ultimate's project plan finished in December 2015.

Steve and Geno were/are my dream duo for DLC. There are not any other characters I wanted on the Fighter’s Pass more than them.

I always preferred this to the alternate outcome (Banjo and Sora). I never grew up with Banjo, but Minecraft was a huge part of my childhood. Needless to say, I knew plenty of great people who wanted Banjo as DLC instead of Steve, so I was happy for them instead of being sad that Steve didn’t make it.

Ideally, just getting one of these two characters (Geno) would already be a godsend for me. But to be frank, if we’re getting two SE reps in the DLC, I don’t see why we can’t have two Microsoft reps.

I’m hoping for Geno to be Fighter Pass character 4 and Steve to be Fighter Pass character 5, but like I said, even one of them coming true is a dream to me.

And, who knows? Steve being FP 5 could validate those Vergeben “Minecraft content” rumors. So I would say there is a miniscule chance, if miniscule.

 

[ChoccyStar]

I'll go out on a limb as predict we're getting a direct this month.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

It's all bloody applied. Sakurai said that he no long going to say whether a character is deconfirm or not because then he has to explain why everyone wasn't decided to be playable. So he's going to make statements that people understand the meaning without him giving the direct statement.

For someone who's lost hope in this character, I'm not sure why you keep coming back to this discussion. Not many people really enjoy seeing you here.

 

[Ovaltine]

I'll go out on a limb as predict we're getting a direct this month.

I mean, we did get an August direct last year, albeit a specialized one (a Smash direct). I wouldn't call it too much of a stretch. I'm bankin' on September, though.

 

[Krystofr]

For someone who's lost hope in this character, I'm not sure why you keep coming back to this discussion. Not many people really enjoy seeing you here.

Agreed. I don't think we need anyone helping us temper our expectations or ridiculous amount of speculation and fun banter (we already do that ourselves lol). That's what this thread is for, I thought. Not for someone constantly "reminding" people that his or her own fan rules and "implications" from Nintendo or Sakurai apply in any real world situation for fact.

 

[StarLight42]

I hope there's more videos showing Steve be friendly, like how he was friendly to Geno in the Smash Kingdom video.

I'm tired of those Grotesque Steve memes portraying him as some villain when that render could instead be an imposter since rude fake fans or some very immature fans (which all fanbases have) are the only ones that used it to annoy others. I honestly found the render itself funny originally, but it got to an extent where I just don't like it, and I wish I could see the real Steve fight alongside Banjo and beat the grotesque man down.





DLC plans were known to Sakurai and the devs in January 2018.

Ultimate's project plan finished in December 2015.

I’m guessing it was MamaLuigi123456

I’m curious about this video, it is interesting that someone portrayed Steve as not the grotesque version