Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[maf91186]

Oh lord, not in Kingdom Hearts, for the love of god please! I don't want to have to not play the first game Geno shows up in after waiting this long due to principle.

Too late XD

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Twist... Banjo is released before Hero

Hey, the character number list is based off reveal order, not release order.

Banjo: Guh-huh!

 

[UberMadman]

Ok, current hypothesis: Hero drops this week with an update video, EVO announces a dedicated Smash Direct, Smash direct is a “final information” Direct like the Bayonetta + Corrin one and begins with character 4 and ends with character 5. Sounds a little weird to know about all characters already, I know, but I could see it happening if Sakurai already has 4 & 5 in a presentable state and wants to avoid leaks.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Ok, current hypothesis: Hero drops this week with an update video, EVO announces a dedicated Smash Direct, Smash direct is a “final information” Direct like the Bayonetta + Corrin one and begins with character 4 and ends with character 5. Sounds a little weird to know about all characters already, I know, but I could see it happening if Sakurai already has 4 & 5 in a presentable state and wants to avoid leaks.

Way too damn early for that. Again, I honestly don’t see the point of such an early announcement for so much more of the Pass and really don’t even want it. I don’t want tons of information dropped until it’s more relevant and closer to release so we roll out content at a much nicer pace, no reason to jump the gun when we know Banjo is coming and not even out yet.

I also seriously doubt 4 and 5 are ready to be shown off this early on, nothing we’ve seen indicates that Sakurai is that ahead in his development cycle and a fall 2018 date for Banjo Kazooie would imply that we’ll be seeing these new fighters right up until the February 2020 deadline. Like revealing Hero, then going over Banjo Kazooie and the remaining two in the span of less than a week seems like being super trigger happy with reveals and would Kind of leave Nintendo with nothing to show for the next 7 months.

 

[Zema]

Hero will release in December. Banjo will release in 2023.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Way too damn early for that. Again, I honestly don’t see the point of such an early announcement for so much more of the Pass and really don’t even want it. I don’t want tons of information dropped until it’s more relevant and closer to release so we roll out content at a much nicer pace, no reason to jump the gun when we know Banjo is coming and not even out yet.

I also seriously doubt 4 and 5 are ready to be shown off this early on, nothing we’ve seen indicates that Sakurai is that ahead in his development cycle and a fall 2018 date for Banjo Kazooie would imply that we’ll be seeing these new fighters right up until the February 2020 deadline. Like revealing Hero, then going over Banjo Kazooie and the remaining two in the span of less than a week seems like being super trigger happy with reveals and would Kind of leave Nintendo with nothing to show for the next 7 months.

People just keep assuming that "oh, Joker is done, that means everyone's done faster now" when no, it doesn't. Every character takes time, resources and effort to develop for, especially since no one in the current batch is an Echo.

Patience is of the upmost importance here, and something that must be honed. If someone's announced for a rough release period, always assume that their release is later, rather than sooner. Besides, there's plenty of awesome games to occupy one's time until then.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Ok, current hypothesis: Hero drops this week with an update video, EVO announces a dedicated Smash Direct, Smash direct is a “final information” Direct like the Bayonetta + Corrin one and begins with character 4 and ends with character 5. Sounds a little weird to know about all characters already, I know, but I could see it happening if Sakurai already has 4 & 5 in a presentable state and wants to avoid leaks.

I agree with EricTheGamerman that it's just way too early for them to announce the final bunch of the Season Pass. I'm guessing fighter 4# will be announced in October and released in December while fighter 5# is announced in December and released February to give the timeline a clean slate.

 

[Vector Victor]

It is a bit crazy how we are in the 8th month since the pass was introduced and we only have one of the characters to actually play with. More than half a year and only 1/5th the content.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It is a bit crazy how we are in the 8th month since the pass was introduced and we only have one of the characters to actually play with. More than half a year and only 1/5th the content.

Again, Plant matters in the discussion of DLC big time and in a week’s time we’ll have Hero with presumably a shorter turn around for Banjo Kazooie, we’re doing pretty well I think.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It is a bit crazy how we are in the 8th month since the pass was introduced and we only have one of the characters to actually play with. More than half a year and only 1/5th the content.

Actually, if you think about it a little bit... It's kind of not a surprise. Smash Ultimate's plans for the base roster was finalize in December of 2015 so right after they released Baynonetta in Smash 4 was when they started working on Ultimate. Less in 3 years it took the development team to make 76 characters (Echos and Piranha Plant included), 103 stages, Classic Mode, Spirits Mode, over 900 tracks, 1296 Spirits, Multi Man Smash, and so on. They didn't started working on the DLC characters and content until Sakurai announced it in the November 1st Smash Direct. This includes the 5 characters, 5 stages, music, and Spirits which take time for a team to make in a year. The base game of course is a completely different story since more people were obviously working on that.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Actually, if you think about it a little bit... It's kind of not a surprise. Smash Ultimate's plans for the base roster was finalize in December of 2015 so right after they released Baynonetta in Smash 4 was when they started working on Ultimate. Less in 3 years it took the development team to make 76 characters (Echos and Piranha Plant included), 103 stages, Classic Mode, Spirits Mode, over 900 tracks, 1296 Spirits, Multi Man Smash, and so on. They didn't started working on the DLC characters and content until Sakurai announced it in the November 1st Smash Direct. This includes the 5 characters, 5 stages, music, and Spirits which take time for a team to make in a year. The base game of course is a completely different story since more people were obviously working on that.

And they still managed to get a surplus of time and money for the said extra development. It takes a special kind of skill to manage to pull through under these circumstances, despite having to discard some things along the way.

 

[Ovaltine]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If anyone wants to learn more about Geno, be sure to show them this very informative and accurate infogram.

Signed,
your local Genologist.

 

[UberMadman]

Spoiler: Embed

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If anyone wants to learn more about Geno, be sure to show them this very informative and accurate infogram.

Signed,
your local Genologist.

Thank you. This was indeed very informative. As someone who wanted to purchase Geno, it is good that I now know he is a fictional character whom I can’t buy.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Genology is technically a branch of astrology, right?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Genology.

 

[ForsakenM]

People just keep assuming that "oh, Joker is done, that means everyone's done faster now" when no, it doesn't. Every character takes time, resources and effort to develop for, especially since no one in the current batch is an Echo.

Patience is of the upmost importance here, and something that must be honed. If someone's announced for a rough release period, always assume that their release is later, rather than sooner. Besides, there's plenty of awesome games to occupy one's time until then.

Fun fact: Joker was likely mostly done before the February Direct. In fact, he was likely mostly done before January. This is why the DQ Crew and B&K are in such finished states to have reveal trailers: most of the wait time between Joker's announcement and his release was likely spent on making DQ Crew and Banjo to have them presentable for E3. This mean that those characters are now in Joker's boat back in Dec/Jan: they are mostly done, meaning that time can now be spent on #4 and #5.

Think about it: development on Joker started early November once the game went gold. It was early Dec when he was announced, close to a full month of development time with a team focusing on mainly just the Fighter's Pass. Come January it had been two months, Joker was likely in a polishing state at this point. The reason we only got an idle stance is likely because that was the most polished portion and it didn't reveal any gameplay, not that he was barely worked on. This means March and April were likely just some small touches and moving on to DQ Crew and B&K to have them ready for E3 reveals. This would give them between 3-4 months to make a character, which makes complete sense since they have lots of cash and a team dedicated to just them instead of an entire game. Remember, this is Sora Ltd and Sakurai, not GameFreak who can't be efficient and is incompetent.

It is totally possible to see more character reveals for the Fighter Pass this soon. If it follows a similar pattern as what I described above, then Fighter #4 could have started work in Late April/Early May. However, it could also mean we will have a another gap before another reveal because they were working on two at once, but since Hero comes out soon and Banjo & Kazooie look very much mostly done, we could get a definitive release date on B&K at EVO (probably not, since Nintendo is enjoying their Shadow Drops) or Fighter #4.

I mean, look at Piranha Plant. It was essentially finished in that Nov Direct, right? So they had to polish it up and test it and make small tweaks. That takes about a month or so of time, and then we got it late Jan. Just because a character is mostly done or completely done doesn't mean it has to release immediately afterwards. DQ Crew and B&K can be mostly done or completely done by now, and we are just waiting for the scheduled release date, and meanwhile Sora Ltd is working on Fighter #4. This means that they could mostly done with Fighter #4 even as we are typing here wondering when Hero will drop.

EDIT: Another Fun fact, mostly Fun Theory though: if they are planning more content like modes and maybe bonus characters, working at this kind of a pace makes even more sense. You would have most of the crew working on characters to have them mostly complete before their scheduled reveal, then have some working on Stage Builder or Home Run Contest or Mii Costumes or what-have-ya which can be finished much more quickly. They can move people around as needed, but if enough people are available and are working on mostly characters (since Sakurai is very particular about giving us the absolute best presentation of the characters possible), it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that they could maintain this kind of pace. It also wouldn't be too far fetched to say that if they are aiming to have characters done this quickly, it could be because there is more coming than we even have any idea of.

Nintendo dropped the DLC on them, they could be seeing early sales predictions and pre-orders and already thinking of dropping more on them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Fun fact: Joker was likely mostly done before the February Direct. In fact, he was likely mostly done before January. This is why the DQ Crew and B&K are in such finished states to have reveal trailers: most of the wait time between Joker's announcement and his release was likely spent on making DQ Crew and Banjo to have them presentable for E3. This mean that those characters are now in Joker's boat back in Dec/Jan: they are mostly done, meaning that time can now be spent on #4 and #5.

Think about it: development on Joker started early November once the game went gold. It was early Dec when he was announced, close to a full month of development time with a team focusing on mainly just the Fighter's Pass. Come January it had been two months, Joker was likely in a polishing state at this point. The reason we only got an idle stance is likely because that was the most polished portion and it didn't reveal any gameplay, not that he was barely worked on. This means March and April were likely just some small touches and moving on to DQ Crew and B&K to have them ready for E3 reveals. This would give them between 3-4 months to make a character, which makes complete sense since they have lots of cash and a team dedicated to just them instead of an entire game. Remember, this is Sora Ltd and Sakurai, not GameFreak who can't be efficient and is incompetent.

It is totally possible to see more character reveals for the Fighter Pass this soon. If it follows a similar pattern as what I described above, then Fighter #4 could have started work in Late April/Early May. However, it could also mean we will have a another gap before another reveal because they were working on two at once, but since Hero comes out soon and Banjo & Kazooie look very much mostly done, we could get a definitive release date on B&K at EVO (probably not, since Nintendo is enjoying their Shadow Drops) or Fighter #4.

I mean, look at Piranha Plant. It was essentially finished in that Nov Direct, right? So they had to polish it up and test it and make small tweaks. That takes about a month or so of time, and then we got it late Jan. Just because a character is mostly done or completely done doesn't mean it has to release immediately afterwards. DQ Crew and B&K can be mostly done or completely done by now, and we are just waiting for the scheduled release date, and meanwhile Sora Ltd is working on Fighter #4. This means that they could mostly done with Fighter #4 even as we are typing here wondering when Hero will drop.

You know what, those are pretty valid points. And to think that some people that aren't in this thread had thought that Atlus was holding things back.

By the way, speaking of GF and The Pokémon Company, apparently someone got to play an early demo of SwSh:

Spoiler

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Fun fact: Joker was likely mostly done before the February Direct. In fact, he was likely mostly done before January. This is why the DQ Crew and B&K are in such finished states to have reveal trailers: most of the wait time between Joker's announcement and his release was likely spent on making DQ Crew and Banjo to have them presentable for E3. This mean that those characters are now in Joker's boat back in Dec/Jan: they are mostly done, meaning that time can now be spent on #4 and #5.

Think about it: development on Joker started early November once the game went gold. It was early Dec when he was announced, close to a full month of development time with a team focusing on mainly just the Fighter's Pass. Come January it had been two months, Joker was likely in a polishing state at this point. The reason we only got an idle stance is likely because that was the most polished portion and it didn't reveal any gameplay, not that he was barely worked on. This means March and April were likely just some small touches and moving on to DQ Crew and B&K to have them ready for E3 reveals. This would give them between 3-4 months to make a character, which makes complete sense since they have lots of cash and a team dedicated to just them instead of an entire game. Remember, this is Sora Ltd and Sakurai, not GameFreak who can't be efficient and is incompetent.

It is totally possible to see more character reveals for the Fighter Pass this soon. If it follows a similar pattern as what I described above, then Fighter #4 could have started work in Late April/Early May. However, it could also mean we will have a another gap before another reveal because they were working on two at once, but since Hero comes out soon and Banjo & Kazooie look very much mostly done, we could get a definitive release date on B&K at EVO (probably not, since Nintendo is enjoying their Shadow Drops) or Fighter #4.

I mean, look at Piranha Plant. It was essentially finished in that Nov Direct, right? So they had to polish it up and test it and make small tweaks. That takes about a month or so of time, and then we got it late Jan. Just because a character is mostly done or completely done doesn't mean it has to release immediately afterwards. DQ Crew and B&K can be mostly done or completely done by now, and we are just waiting for the scheduled release date, and meanwhile Sora Ltd is working on Fighter #4. This means that they could mostly done with Fighter #4 even as we are typing here wondering when Hero will drop.

EDIT: Another Fun fact, mostly Fun Theory though: if they are planning more content like modes and maybe bonus characters, working at this kind of a pace makes even more sense. You would have most of the crew working on characters to have them mostly complete before their scheduled reveal, then have some working on Stage Builder or Home Run Contest or Mii Costumes or what-have-ya which can be finished much more quickly. They can move people around as needed, but if enough people are available and are working on mostly characters (since Sakurai is very particular about giving us the absolute best presentation of the characters possible), it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that they could maintain this kind of pace. It also wouldn't be too far fetched to say that if they are aiming to have characters done this quickly, it could be because there is more coming than we even have any idea of.

Nintendo dropped the DLC on them, they could be seeing early sales predictions and pre-orders and already thinking of dropping more on them.

I mean, those do make sense, especially since Sakurai recently said that Banjo and the DQ Heroes were almost done, as his gameplay trailers show almost finished content. So character #4 being announced in a "really-soon-after-EVO-direct" is definitely a likelier possibility than a few of us expected it to be

Source: https://gonintendo.com/stories/3407...-work-that-goes-into-smash-bros-ultima?page=1

 

[Icewolff92]

KirbyWorshipper2465

Can¨t say that I´m surprised, unfortunately. The franchise has been on a decline since X/Y. Word on the street is that it is because GF is losing the interest in it, especially after the mobile games became such a success (and I can¨t blame them if so) combined with Pokemon Company is forcing out a game regularly like Ubisoft with Assasins Creed or EA with Fifa unfortunately.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

KirbyWorshipper2465

Can¨t say that I´m surprised, unfortunately. The franchise has been on a decline since X/Y. Word on the street is that it is because GF is losing the interest in it, especially after the mobile games became such a success (and I can¨t blame them if so) combined with Pokemon Company is forcing out a game regularly like Ubisoft with Assasins Creed or EA with Fifa unfortunately.

Can't say I blame them either, really. You see how much pride GF has over their non-Pokémon games like Giga Wrecker and the upcoming Town. Guys are being run ragged.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Fun fact: Joker was likely mostly done before the February Direct. In fact, he was likely mostly done before January. This is why the DQ Crew and B&K are in such finished states to have reveal trailers: most of the wait time between Joker's announcement and his release was likely spent on making DQ Crew and Banjo to have them presentable for E3. This mean that those characters are now in Joker's boat back in Dec/Jan: they are mostly done, meaning that time can now be spent on #4 and #5.

Think about it: development on Joker started early November once the game went gold. It was early Dec when he was announced, close to a full month of development time with a team focusing on mainly just the Fighter's Pass. Come January it had been two months, Joker was likely in a polishing state at this point. The reason we only got an idle stance is likely because that was the most polished portion and it didn't reveal any gameplay, not that he was barely worked on. This means March and April were likely just some small touches and moving on to DQ Crew and B&K to have them ready for E3 reveals. This would give them between 3-4 months to make a character, which makes complete sense since they have lots of cash and a team dedicated to just them instead of an entire game. Remember, this is Sora Ltd and Sakurai, not GameFreak who can't be efficient and is incompetent.

It is totally possible to see more character reveals for the Fighter Pass this soon. If it follows a similar pattern as what I described above, then Fighter #4 could have started work in Late April/Early May. However, it could also mean we will have a another gap before another reveal because they were working on two at once, but since Hero comes out soon and Banjo & Kazooie look very much mostly done, we could get a definitive release date on B&K at EVO (probably not, since Nintendo is enjoying their Shadow Drops) or Fighter #4.

I mean, look at Piranha Plant. It was essentially finished in that Nov Direct, right? So they had to polish it up and test it and make small tweaks. That takes about a month or so of time, and then we got it late Jan. Just because a character is mostly done or completely done doesn't mean it has to release immediately afterwards. DQ Crew and B&K can be mostly done or completely done by now, and we are just waiting for the scheduled release date, and meanwhile Sora Ltd is working on Fighter #4. This means that they could mostly done with Fighter #4 even as we are typing here wondering when Hero will drop.

EDIT: Another Fun fact, mostly Fun Theory though: if they are planning more content like modes and maybe bonus characters, working at this kind of a pace makes even more sense. You would have most of the crew working on characters to have them mostly complete before their scheduled reveal, then have some working on Stage Builder or Home Run Contest or Mii Costumes or what-have-ya which can be finished much more quickly. They can move people around as needed, but if enough people are available and are working on mostly characters (since Sakurai is very particular about giving us the absolute best presentation of the characters possible), it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that they could maintain this kind of pace. It also wouldn't be too far fetched to say that if they are aiming to have characters done this quickly, it could be because there is more coming than we even have any idea of.

Nintendo dropped the DLC on them, they could be seeing early sales predictions and pre-orders and already thinking of dropping more on them.

Spoiler: Discussion on a Fighter Reveal and Response to Joker's State in February

Big citation needed on Joker being finished in February. A playable 3D model does not equate to finished, and with a roster of 77 other fighters to balance him against and making sure he's properly play-tested with all the potential content in the game could easily be a month or more of work on its own. We know for a fact that Sakurai worked on the first three Fighter's Pass characters simultaneously based upon his prior release and everything Sakurai has said would imply a character needs more development time to be completed than that. With all of the intentional decision making with Utlimate's DLC, I sincerely doubt that characters are being held back for release date purposes. Even Piranha Plant may have had tons of issues behind the scenes in November for all we know because it's specifically the job of the developer to find the presentable material even if the game/content itself has other issues that still need to be resolved. I just don't like the insinuation of mostly complete only referring to a character's ability to being shown off because with Smash we largely know how much more work comes after they're debuted. And characters just take time to develop, so while #4 and #5 are in the early phases, we're still not going to see them for some time in any official release capacity.

And yet again, I'll ask, ****ing why bother with more reveals now? You just revealed two of the four remaining fighters at E3, with one releasing extremely soon and one releasing later in the fall. You have an annual September General Direct that would be the ideal place to show off Fighter #4 and reveal Banjo-Kazooie's release date (Cloud was a September Direct reveal for Smash 4), and then you'll have later in the year to do whatever you want with #5. There's basically no chance of us not going into early 2020 with the Fighter's Pass anyway. I don't see the reason to jump the gun on these reveals when you know you have the immediate next couple of months publicly shown and have plenty of opportunities for further announcements later in the year. EVO doesn't have to have any specific special announcement and can just be Hero being dropped.

By the way, speaking of GF and The Pokémon Company, apparently someone got to play an early demo of SwSh:

That's a terrible video on the issues with Sword/Shield and isn't anything special considering he's just playing the E3 demo that has been extensively covered. He makes comment about the game's performance and graphics in the overworld "based upon the demo," though that has never been available to the public in any capacity and they only offered Nessa's water gym on the show floor. Furthermore, he downright slows down part of the footage directly taken from prior trailers and slows it down when he talks performance. This dude seems like someone just trying to cash in on the Pokemon controversy. There are very real issues with Sword and Shield worth discussing, but **** the way this dude goes about it and presents his "analysis." It's awful.

 

[Icewolff92]

Can't say I blame them either, really. You see how much pride GF has over their non-Pokémon games like Giga Wrecker and the upcoming Town. Guys are being run ragged.

The last Pokemon games that Gamefreak truly cared about is the Black & White (prequel and sequel) games and it shows. I seriously hope that Sw/Sh is underperforming (which I think there is a chance for concidering this whole National Dex controversy) so that TCP lets the franchise take a breather on a console so they can come back stronger than before.

 

[Rikarte]

The last Pokemon games that Gamefreak truly cared about is the Black & White (prequel and sequel) games and it shows. I seriously hope that Sw/Sh is underperforming (which I think there is a chance for concidering this whole National Dex controversy) so that TCP lets the franchise take a breather on a console so they can come back stronger than before.

Imo, ever since ORAS the series has just been "good". Not bad, not great, just good. And Sw/Sh doesn't seem to be breaking that trend which is a real shame. Pokemon deserves better.

 

[Icewolff92]

Imo, ever since ORAS the series has just been "good". Not bad, not great, just good. And Sw/Sh doesn't seem to be breaking that trend which is a real shame. Pokemon deserves better.

Deserves better is an understatement. I wish The Pokemon Company do a reboot themselves soon and get some young blood involved that could actually get the franchise in the right direction. That or someone like Nintendo would buy them. The franchise sure isn¨t on the right path, that for certain

 

[EricTheGamerman]

The last Pokemon games that Gamefreak truly cared about is the Black & White (prequel and sequel) games and it shows. I seriously hope that Sw/Sh is underperforming (which I think there is a chance for concidering this whole National Dex controversy) so that TCP lets the franchise take a breather on a console so they can come back stronger than before.

Spoiler: Pokemon Discussion

Regardless of the game's quality and issues, it's going to sell well. Sword and Shield have already been doing great with preorders and Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee sold 10 million copies with an honestly even more embarrassing model and way of doing things (Let's Go are far more unforgivable than Sword/Shield will ever be since it barely did anything worthwhile and retailed at $60 with absurdly limited options). While some of the Pokemon community seems up in arms over everything, there's a sizable portion that aren't going to diverge from their usual purchasing behavior and we've already largely seen people be willing to move on from the controversy with more recent trailers getting much more approval than the one where Masuda mentioned not bringing them all back. It's a mainline Pokemon game on home consoles for the first time... it's hard to convince people to stick to their principles when presented with that reality.

Plus, honestly, if they clean up a lot of the game's presentation issues, it'll honestly look pretty great because it already does in select areas. The battle animations are a whole other thing and really should have been much more extensively worked on if they were cutting Pokemon, but I think the higher ups at The Pokemon Company just miscalculated their plans for Sword/Shield, underestimated the work, and didn't take more steps to ensure that the transition from handheld to console had more resources and time for development. And honestly, while I don't expect too much from these games, Sword/Shield could genuinely turn out great in spite of the issues if there has been actual care and effort put into other places in the game despite graphics and the Dexit issue.

 

[Icewolff92]

Regardless of the game's quality and issues, it's going to sell well. Sword and Shield have already been doing great with preorders and Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee sold 10 million copies with an honestly even more embarrassing model and way of doing things (Let's Go are far more unforgivable than Sword/Shield will ever be since it barely did anything worthwhile and retailed at $60 with absurdly limited options). While some of the Pokemon community seems up in arms over everything, there's a sizable portion that aren't going to diverge from their usual purchasing behavior and we've already largely seen people be willing to move on from the controversy with more recent trailers getting much more approval than the one where Masuda mentioned not bringing them all back. It's a mainline Pokemon game on home consoles for the first time... it's hard to convince people to stick to their principles when presented with that reality.

Plus, honestly, if they clean up a lot of the game's presentation issues, it'll honestly look pretty great because it already does in select areas. The battle animations are a whole other thing and really should have been much more extensively worked on if they were cutting Pokemon, but I think the higher ups at The Pokemon Company just miscalculated their plans for Sword/Shield, underestimated the work, and didn't take more steps to ensure that the transition from handheld to console had more resources and time for development. And honestly, while I don't expect too much from these games, Sword/Shield could genuinely turn out great in spite of the issues if there has been actual care and effort put into other places in the game despite graphics and the Dexit issue.

It certainly will sell well, that's for certain.

 

[Ovaltine]

Honestly, Sun and Moon and its 'deluxe' versions were really good. I absolutely loved Gen 7. It felt like such a breath of fresh air.

SwSh wouldn't be too bad for me if it wasn't on the Switch. I was kinda expecting bigger and better for Pokemon's first big Switch 'venture, but it's... definitely not that. I'm not sure whether or not I'll be skipping out on this gen yet. It's giving me Kalos vibes, and goodness knows I thought Kalos was boring as sin.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

KirbyWorshipper2465

Can¨t say that I´m surprised, unfortunately. The franchise has been on a decline since X/Y. Word on the street is that it is because GF is losing the interest in it, especially after the mobile games became such a success (and I can¨t blame them if so) combined with Pokemon Company is forcing out a game regularly like Ubisoft with Assasins Creed or EA with Fifa unfortunately.

Why exactly do people hate on X&Y so much? I agree that Alola was a snoozefest although I always find many Pokemon in each generation that I love even if I didn't initially like them. But Kalos was actually a really interesting region in my opinion with some unique and fun stuff. Sure sky battles blow hard and mega evolution was not implemented in an ideal way such as only being used for Pokemon with already full evolution lines instead of Pokemon like Sableye/Kangaskahn who should've just gotten regular evolutions. And I know it followed the excellent story line of gen 5 games with a wholly uninteresting story line and practically no endgame material at all, but the actual lore of the region is really cool and the region itself is much more interesting with it's locations and style than many other regions. I just don't get the hate for gen 6 what is with that seriously please explain to me. I'm not saying gamefreak does care about the games still cuz clearly they don't and have shown that time and time again with lackluster new mechanics and no initiative to really shake things up and provide a really powerful gaming experience in Pokemon but still this has been a perpetual cycle in Pokemon since gen 4 in my opinion not 6. Gen 4 did at least add something meaningful in IVs but those didn't even matter much until gen 6 when you could actually get some perfect ones through breeding consistently.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Why exactly do people hate on X&Y so much? I agree that Alola was a snoozefest although I always find many Pokemon in each generation that I love even if I didn't initially like them. But Kalos was actually a really interesting region in my opinion with some unique and fun stuff. Sure sky battles blow hard and mega evolution was not implemented in an ideal way such as only being used for Pokemon with already full evolution lines instead of Pokemon like Sableye/Kangaskahn who should've just gotten regular evolutions. And I know it followed the excellent story line of gen 5 games with a wholly uninteresting story line and practically no endgame material at all, but the actual lore of the region is really cool and the region itself is much more interesting with it's locations and style than many other regions. I just don't get the hate for gen 6 what is with that seriously please explain to me. I'm not saying gamefreak does care about the games still cuz clearly they don't and have shown that time and time again with lackluster new mechanics and no initiative to really shake things up and provide a really powerful gaming experience in Pokemon but still this has been a perpetual cycle in Pokemon since gen 4 in my opinion not 6. Gen 4 did at least add something meaningful in IVs but those didn't even matter much until gen 6 when you could actually get some perfect ones through breeding consistently.

I've not honestly played XY yet... but Kalos just seems kind of bland and without a whole lot of really interesting stuff. It only has around 70 new Pokemon and leans heavily into Gen 1 nostalgia, especially with its main mechanic of Mega Evolutions... which was the first time the Pokemon games prioritized a brand new and flashy mechanic over other stuff. I'm also aware the game has no end game whatsoever and is only rivaled by lack of content by Gen 1's original releases. Just seemed like a perfect storm of just OK stuff and minor frustrations to earn the games a bad reputation.

 

[Nicnac]

Why exactly do people hate on X&Y so much? I agree that Alola was a snoozefest although I always find many Pokemon in each generation that I love even if I didn't initially like them. But Kalos was actually a really interesting region in my opinion with some unique and fun stuff. Sure sky battles blow hard and mega evolution was not implemented in an ideal way such as only being used for Pokemon with already full evolution lines instead of Pokemon like Sableye/Kangaskahn who should've just gotten regular evolutions. And I know it followed the excellent story line of gen 5 games with a wholly uninteresting story line and practically no endgame material at all, but the actual lore of the region is really cool and the region itself is much more interesting with it's locations and style than many other regions. I just don't get the hate for gen 6 what is with that seriously please explain to me. I'm not saying gamefreak does care about the games still cuz clearly they don't and have shown that time and time again with lackluster new mechanics and no initiative to really shake things up and provide a really powerful gaming experience in Pokemon but still this has been a perpetual cycle in Pokemon since gen 4 in my opinion not 6. Gen 4 did at least add something meaningful in IVs but those didn't even matter much until gen 6 when you could actually get some perfect ones through breeding consistently.

It has (in my opinion) two of the most boring starters in the series (and Greninja, who is admittedly really cool).
It has a massive set of Gen 1 pandering (Charizard/Mewtwo getting 2 Megas, Santalune forest = Viridian Forest).
Worst evil team in the series in my opinion.
No memorable NPCs apart from MAYBE Sycamore.
Very few new pokemon, and while there's lots of good stuff like Klefki, or the fossils, there's also stuff like Pyroar and Vivillion.
Introduction of the difficulty-nuking Exp. Share.
Abysmal post-game.
Worst rivals in the series. Instead of one good one they give you 4 or 5 awful ones.
Pathetic Elite Four and Champion fights.
The region of Kalos isn't that memorable (to me at least) and it feels much more like a "Go from Point A to Point B" game than previous entries.
Not a complaint about Kalos, but why are there 3 regional pokedexes? It never made sense to me- at least it has a National Dex though lmao

 

[Icewolff92]

Why exactly do people hate on X&Y so much? I agree that Alola was a snoozefest although I always find many Pokemon in each generation that I love even if I didn't initially like them. But Kalos was actually a really interesting region in my opinion with some unique and fun stuff. Sure sky battles blow hard and mega evolution was not implemented in an ideal way such as only being used for Pokemon with already full evolution lines instead of Pokemon like Sableye/Kangaskahn who should've just gotten regular evolutions. And I know it followed the excellent story line of gen 5 games with a wholly uninteresting story line and practically no endgame material at all, but the actual lore of the region is really cool and the region itself is much more interesting with it's locations and style than many other regions. I just don't get the hate for gen 6 what is with that seriously please explain to me. I'm not saying gamefreak does care about the games still cuz clearly they don't and have shown that time and time again with lackluster new mechanics and no initiative to really shake things up and provide a really powerful gaming experience in Pokemon but still this has been a perpetual cycle in Pokemon since gen 4 in my opinion not 6. Gen 4 did at least add something meaningful in IVs but those didn't even matter much until gen 6 when you could actually get some perfect ones through breeding consistently.

Don¨t get me wrong, I don¨t hate X/Y. I enjoyed it for what it was. But the game felt rushed. Especially with it releasing with such a game-breaking bug that they had to fix post-launch. Your comment about their lore and religion in this game is another reason to why. There are some great interesting ideas here that never went to its full potential or even half of it for that matter. Heck even Zygarde, the third legendary weren¨t even mention in the story if my memory serves me right. There is a reason why they are tapping into Zigardes origin in Sun & Moon after all.

X/Y is sort of like Fire Emblem Awakening. An okay game that could have been so much more. Heck, they both share the similarities that they had a later game fleshing out one of the main things of said game.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I've not honestly played XY yet... but Kalos just seems kind of bland and without a whole lot of really interesting stuff. It only has around 70 new Pokemon and leans heavily into Gen 1 nostalgia, especially with its main mechanic of Mega Evolutions... which was the first time the Pokemon games prioritized a brand new and flashy mechanic over other stuff. I'm also aware the game has no end game whatsoever and is only rivaled by lack of content by Gen 1's original releases. Just seemed like a perfect storm of just OK stuff and minor frustrations to earn the games a bad reputation.

I mean I do understand the subpar qualities presented by X&Y most notably end game, amount of new Pokemon, and mega evolution being poorly and unequally implemented but don't understand how the positives don't outweigh them. In case you haven't noticed all games try to lean hard into the nostalgia of gen 1 it's just that Kalos made it more obvious with stuff like mega evolution. I just think that Sinnoh and Unova were terrible regions and had relatively unchanged formulas although at least gen 5 had an interesting story and good amount of content. Gen 4 had plenty of content I just didn't care about any of it other than some really great new Pokemon. I actually put more hours into X&Y than any other Pokemon game by far because breeding actually became a thing that everyone could do even without a 6iv ditto or hacking. That was huge for me and exactly what I needed to respark my interest in Pokemon. Gen 7 had some interesting features including further improved breeding and Ultra Beasts were a nice change of pace design-wise, but I hate Alola it all felt done before and had been done better and the islands and new design of routes made everything feel so small. Let's go Pikachu/Eevee is the real tragedy and I don't think it'll be hard for sword/shield to be better than them but I still think sword/shield will be very disappointing but at least there's Wooloo...

 

[AugustusB]

Oh Pokemon got in here too eh? Well I will leave y'all to it.

IF there is a Smash Direct in the near future (after EVO) I don't think a fighters pass character would be shown. But a Bonus fighter....depends on when Hero drops and WHAT is shown in their video.

Also, did we ever figure out in Hero's trailer what was up with some of the fighters in a red aura? Is that new? Perhaps more in WoL?

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

It has (in my opinion) two of the most boring starters in the series (and Greninja, who is admittedly really cool).
It has a massive set of Gen 1 pandering (Charizard/Mewtwo getting 2 Megas, Santalune forest = Viridian Forest).
Worst evil team in the series in my opinion.
No memorable NPCs apart from MAYBE Sycamore.
Very few new pokemon, and while there's lots of good stuff like Klefki, or the fossils, there's also stuff like Pyroar and Vivillion.
Introduction of the difficulty-nuking Exp. Share.
Abysmal post-game.
Worst rivals in the series. Instead of one good one they give you 4 or 5 awful ones.
Pathetic Elite Four and Champion fights.
The region of Kalos isn't that memorable (to me at least) and it feels much more like a "Go from Point A to Point B" game than previous entries.
Not a complaint about Kalos, but why are there 3 regional pokedexes? It never made sense to me- at least it has a National Dex though lmao

I really like Delphox personally. This is pretty helpful for me tho. I guess maybe its just what makes pokemon games memorable for me is different than a majority of other people. I would love to have a Pokemon experience where the region (one that makes sense...there are literally no houses in Alola where does everyone live...at least Kalos made sense) really inspired me and the Pokemon felt at home and the story was engaging and really interesting with mysterious and perplexing lore but no game (even black and white because the region is so boring to me) gave me that experience. I see so much potential and understand fan disappointment about sword/shield and sun/moon. But I think with the updated breeding mechanics X/Y was actually really fun for me cuz I could finally have legit competitive Pokemon that I bred myself. I'll never forget breeding for my perfect 5iv shiny Accelgor (my first competitive shiny that I bred myself and I did it without a 6iv ditto). Those kind of memories totally trump any in game and/or story content we've seen from any Pokemon game for me. I guess it's those memories plus enjoying the aesthetic and feel of Kalos that made X/Y so enjoyable for me. So if others didn't have the same kind of experience as I did I can see why those negatives would outweigh what I saw as positives.

 

[Icewolff92]

Also, did we ever figure out in Hero's trailer what was up with some of the fighters in a red aura? Is that new? Perhaps more in WoL?

I think it's just mean to be a typical "The Hero saves the day" type of video.

 

[ForsakenM]

Regardless of the game's quality and issues, it's going to sell well. Sword and Shield have already been doing great with preorders and Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee sold 10 million copies with an honestly even more embarrassing model and way of doing things (Let's Go are far more unforgivable than Sword/Shield will ever be since it barely did anything worthwhile and retailed at $60 with absurdly limited options). While some of the Pokemon community seems up in arms over everything, there's a sizable portion that aren't going to diverge from their usual purchasing behavior and we've already largely seen people be willing to move on from the controversy with more recent trailers getting much more approval than the one where Masuda mentioned not bringing them all back. It's a mainline Pokemon game on home consoles for the first time... it's hard to convince people to stick to their principles when presented with that reality.

Plus, honestly, if they clean up a lot of the game's presentation issues, it'll honestly look pretty great because it already does in select areas. The battle animations are a whole other thing and really should have been much more extensively worked on if they were cutting Pokemon, but I think the higher ups at The Pokemon Company just miscalculated their plans for Sword/Shield, underestimated the work, and didn't take more steps to ensure that the transition from handheld to console had more resources and time for development. And honestly, while I don't expect too much from these games, Sword/Shield could genuinely turn out great in spite of the issues if there has been actual care and effort put into other places in the game despite graphics and the Dexit issue.

I'm sorry, but they didn't underestimate anything.

This is typical corporate shenanigans.

GameFreak has been making us pay the same for less with Pokemon since B/W. The keep removing features because carrying them over to each game would take too much work and they refuse to expand their studio and hire more devs or take a bigger budget. Seriously, everything that is happening right now is on GameFreak's shoulders for not trying harder.

Also, that video you said is bad really isn't: it's pointing out the issues of the demo and how, in his opinion, the future looks bleak for SwSh.

If you want a really good video, go watch Lockstin and Gnoggin's vid talking about the entire controversy. It covers both sides, but also points out that GameFreak is screwing it up. Pokemon makes billions, yet they take/are given a budget so much smaller than modern games. They refuse to hire more devs or to outsource more than they already do despite the outsourcing being the best quality. The game "looks good for a Pokemon game" but it doesn't look good by any other Switch game's standards. They've had between 3-4 years to work on this, but since the team is so split between projects of both Pokemon and mostly on non-Pokemon, the game suffers because of it. On top of that they suck at optimization of their game and won't hire new people who are better at it.

They think they can just make a weak product and, since it's Pokemon, it will make money while they put actual effort into their side games.

And to all of you who pity GameFreak about working on Pokemon all the time, you better give Sakurai the same pity: he feels like he is stuck working on Smash, and guess what? He still delivers top quality content! What is GameFreak's excuse?

SwSh need to flop harder than any other Pokemon game, which historically have always sold less each generation, so that either GameFreak wakes up and starts actually improving...or someone else makes the main-line games and GameFreak can make all the non-Pokemon stuff they want until they eventually go under since nothing they make will ever make that Pokemon money.

We should want better from our favorite games. Not making the Pokemon Company money over SwSh is the perfect way to let them know. Stop defending companies like Bioware, Bethesda, EA, Hello Games, and now GameFreak who refuse to put their best foot forward and release a top-quality product.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk and my most recent pet peeve that irks me to the moon and back.
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As for citations on when Joker was done, I have none, and I need none. That whole post was speculative and based on release dates of characters and finding an average on development time and applying logic. If you use your brain, it's clear that what I posted is completely possible. Never did I say that it was EXACTLY how it is, but rather that it is very likely.

Also, they reason people think we could get another announcement is because of what we have stated a million times already:

1. They are running out of time for both reveals and releases to be done via Feb 2020 for just five characters.
2. It's mother-****ing EVO, the world's biggest fighting game tournament. This is where fighting game companies make big announcements.

They don't have to do anything really, but just because YOU think it's too early doesn't mean others think it's too early and doesn't mean Nintendo or Sora Ltd think it's too early.

Sorry, this was a bit more aggressive. I'm still posting this because of my passion for Pokemon and how I really feel like the message of "Stop accepting less" needs to be spread out more.

 

[AugustusB]

I think it's just mean to be a typical "The Hero saves the day" type of video.

Lol I know the CGI conveys that, but the in game is what caught my eye. Red aura around the fighters is new.

 

[Vector Victor]

It has (in my opinion) two of the most boring starters in the series (and Greninja, who is admittedly really cool).
It has a massive set of Gen 1 pandering (Charizard/Mewtwo getting 2 Megas, Santalune forest = Viridian Forest).
Worst evil team in the series in my opinion.
No memorable NPCs apart from MAYBE Sycamore.
Very few new pokemon, and while there's lots of good stuff like Klefki, or the fossils, there's also stuff like Pyroar and Vivillion.
Introduction of the difficulty-nuking Exp. Share.
Abysmal post-game.
Worst rivals in the series. Instead of one good one they give you 4 or 5 awful ones.
Pathetic Elite Four and Champion fights.
The region of Kalos isn't that memorable (to me at least) and it feels much more like a "Go from Point A to Point B" game than previous entries.
Not a complaint about Kalos, but why are there 3 regional pokedexes? It never made sense to me- at least it has a National Dex though lmao

Not to mention the massive backlash the anime version got near its end that impacted Sun/Moon games and anime at their start.

 

[Icewolff92]

Lol I know the CGI conveys that, but the in game is what caught my eye. Red aura around the fighters is new.

Isn¨t that a common trope in japan storytelling (especially in anime) that red aura and eyes = possessed?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Lol I know the CGI conveys that, but the in game is what caught my eye. Red aura around the fighters is new.

It’s actually seen in World of Light when freeing fighters in the Dark Realm.

I still say we’re gonna be able to apply the Galeem (blue)/Dharkon (red) auras and maybe even full body “fake fighter” designs on anyone you want to outside of WoL. Seems pointless to show off something usually seen in WoL just for one trailer.