Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I guess Geno could be like how Kenshiro is portrayed in Lost Paradise; bleeding awesome in battle and situations with gravitas, but barely has much grasp in regards to regular social interactions when he's expected to do anything not related to his main duties (like trying to deal with belligerent thugs by peacefully talking to them, instead of beating them up).

He could also get homesick on occasion.

 

[Rohanx17]

I have to say that it's interesting to see how straight and lawful people see Geno, and while I understand that take, I'm such a huge fan of putting twists on characters. I guess I'm an odd one out here, haha.

I mean the game doesn't give much dialogue or direct characterization especially compared to the other mario rpg's but the one thing I did take away from seeing him interact was his dedication and loyalty to his duty and the ones who gave it, the other ones may have better illustrated it better with different interpretations of the star sprites as a race but it's definitely there. You can fill in the blanks however you want but frankly I don't see what you do. honestly he strikes me as the type to go along with something he doesn't particularly agree with or believe in if he were commanded to by the elder stars, no matter what the cost would be. Kind of a Camus if you know fire emblem at all.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I have to say that it's interesting to see how straight and lawful people see Geno, and while I understand that take, I'm such a huge fan of putting twists on characters. I guess I'm an odd one out here, haha.

Thinking about it, though, if Geno's character did get expanded upon, what would you want to see out of him? What would be his conflicts, his strengths, his shortcomings, etc.? Very curious to see what people think.

Speaking of Geno’s character development expanding, I totally forgot Geno was in the One Punch Man opening parody called “One Jump Man”. Geno would have such great character development in a series like this, and he’d have a good point of view on justice in this kind of universe. Let’s say the One Jump Man universe existed, every character in there would show some wild lore and character development. While it would be a gag show, like the One Punch Man webcomic/manga/anime itself, I think it’d be awesome to see a Mario parody version of One Punch Man. Geno would be such a cool character in a parody like that.

Not sure why Mallow wasn’t included in the opening, but either way, it’s nice to see Super Mario RPG getting recognition, even if it’s in a fan-made animation. It was also nice to see Exor in the animated opening, and I like the fact that he is supposed to be the “God level threat” of the show.

 

[bardbowman]

A few music tracks? Just thrown in there for free? From Square? After Yoko Shimomura, who is on the team, apparently couldn't put them in the base game?

That, good sir, is a funny joke.

*shrug*

I was being serious. I don’t see a couple of those tracks thrown into the pool of DQ tracks we’ll get with Hero altogether impossible, should Geno be included as a mii costume.

Not likely. But not impossible either.

Also...We don’t know that Yoko couldn’t put them in base game, in the sense that she wanted to but was forbidden. Unless I missed something huge over the past few months.

 

[helloiamhere]

A few music tracks? Just thrown in there for free? From Square? After Yoko Shimomura, who is on the team, apparently couldn't put them in the base game?

That, good sir, is a funny joke.

They remixed a SMRPG song for Fortune Street a few years back, not totally out of the question.

 

[Ovaltine]

*shrug*

I was being serious. I don’t see a couple of those tracks thrown into the pool of DQ tracks we’ll get with Hero altogether impossible, should Geno be included as a mii costume.

Not likely. But not impossible either.

Also...We don’t know that Yoko couldn’t put them in base game, in the sense that she wanted to but was forbidden. Unless I missed something huge over the past few months.

I dunno, I just can't see the Square half of SE giving any extra fluff, any more than they need to. I'd be honestly surprised if they did.

True, we don't know for sure, but I think the lack of SMRPG music of any kind, even though we have Geno and Mallow spirits as-is, feels like a glaring omission. It makes ya wonder.

I mean the game doesn't give much dialogue or direct characterization especially compared to the other mario rpg's but the one thing I did take away from seeing him interact was his dedication and loyalty to his duty and the ones who gave it, the other ones may have better illustrated it better with different interpretations of the star sprites as a race but it's definitely there. You can fill in the blanks however you want but frankly I don't see what you do. honestly he strikes me as the type to go along with something he doesn't particularly agree with or believe in if he were commanded to by the elder stars, no matter what the cost would be. Kind of a Camus if you know fire emblem at all.

Oh, trust me, I understand that. He is very dedicated to his duty, and it's clear as can be. That said, I think he has his own independent sense of justice (I mean, he freaks out over the idea of them being charged with kidnapping the princess, yet he doesn't deny Bowser, a big, bad evil that the Star Spirits surely would be leery of allying with), and I could see that making for interesting conflict. He also seemed very downtrodden about leaving his friends for good, something that makes me wonder, "What if he took the risk to come back for leisure? What if he was restricted from seeing them beyond what's necessary? What if he got a taste of friendship and ended up missing it so badly that he sneaked back to see them? What if he got in hot water over that?"

I dunno, I don't see Geno as just going along with whatever he's told 100%. It symbolizes a lack of sense of self to me. Him not being his own person is something that bugs me and just doesn't have much room for growth. Feeding on that potential for things to become multi-faceted and complex, even to the point of straining to balance duty with his own personal wants, is something that's intriguing to me. It gives Geno a level of depth beyond just, "He listens to his higher authority, he does his job, he leaves, he serves them without a second thought, and that's that." It's something I encourage, oftentimes because I see Geno portrayed very one-dimensional. Thinking outside the box is just a thing I do, and with a character like Geno, he has a lot of room for it as long as his core fundamentals are kept.

ETA: I dunno, my post didn't sit right with me until I added this, but I ABSOLUTELY encourage everyone to have their own interpretations and disagree with my own! That's the beauty of creativity! I'm just giving my reasoning is all. Besides, I acknowledge that I probably go a little crazy and out there with my ideas. I've just learned to embrace my own crazy, rofl.

 

[GenoFlash]

Hey all, I'd like to use the Jester enemy as an avatar on another site. Would anyone be able to crop out the background for it and make it transparent?

 

[ForsakenM]

They remixed a SMRPG song for Fortune Street a few years back, not totally out of the question.

Fortune Street is a Square-published game.

You can tell because it has Mario characters talking about Erdrick.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Fortune Street is a Square-published game.

You can tell because it has Mario characters talking about Erdrick.

Why wasn't Geno in this game?

Or in Mario Hoops 3-on-3?

...Or Mario Sports Mix?

Dang, Square missed a number of opportunities.

 

[Ovaltine]

Why wasn't Geno in this game?

Or in Mario Hoops 3-on-3?

...Or Mario Sports Mix?

Dang, Square missed a number of opportunities.

Either they didn't realize his popularity at the time or didn't care to use him. Same goes for Mallow, or heck, even characters like Booster, Valentina, or Boshi. They all would have been nice to see.

 

[EarlTamm]

Why wasn't Geno in this game?

Or in Mario Hoops 3-on-3?

...Or Mario Sports Mix?

Dang, Square missed a number of opportunities.

I guess things were still awkward between them.

 

[xpnc]

Hey all, I'd like to use the Jester enemy as an avatar on another site. Would anyone be able to crop out the background for it and make it transparent?

View attachment 231934

That was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be

 

[ShotoStar 2]

Y'know how Splatoon was originally supposed to be a Mario Spinoff? I think Geno would work really well if they kept it as such. I was talking with a friend earlier and they said Geno could only shoot bullets but that's not true we don't yet know the full extent of Geno's ability and I wouldn't find it too far out there to say he could shoot Water/whatever the substance may have been.

Plus besides maybe Bowser and the Fire Bros there's no Mario Character with the innate ability to shoot things without the help of a power up or any outside help, Geno has that innate ability so I could see him making a good fit within a game like that.

Plus I think it would be adorable to see Geno run around a big arena like that while trying his best. It would be adorable and I think he would fit well within it.

 

[GrungeMan]

Thinking about it, though, if Geno's character did get expanded upon, what would you want to see out of him? What would be his conflicts, his strengths, his shortcomings, etc.? Very curious to see what people think.

If there were a sequel to SMRPG with more Geno character development, then I would like to see him struggle with morally grey areas in which there isn't a real clear cut and "right" solution to the problem. I also see Geno as being a "lawful good" type and rather wise, so it would provide him an extra dynamic layer if he had to struggle over certain decisions that tested just how wise he really is. You know.. To kind of humble and humanize Geno.

Then again, Nintendo doesn't make particularly deep or thoughtful games imo, so I don't see Geno being faced with any ethical dilemmas any time soon haha

 

[GenoFlash]

That was a lot more difficult than I thought it would beView attachment 231939

Thank you so much! I love it!

 

[xpnc]

Thank you so much! I love it!

You're welcome

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Spoiler

So I tried to make something Super Mario RPG related in Super Mario Maker 2. There are no gold goombas though, so it's not completely accurate. ( also I deigned to give Mario a hammer. )

Either they didn't realize his popularity at the time or didn't care to use him. Same goes for Mallow, or heck, even characters like Booster, Valentina, or Boshi. They all would have been nice to see.

I'm going to guess that this is more of a Nintendo problem than a Square Enix problem. More specifically a Miyamoto problem. I'm sure that Square Enix was given a very specific list of options for available Mario characters to use. Heaven forbid that anyone promote any character that isn't from the usual roster of the Super Mario mini game spin-offs.

 

[Rohanx17]

Oh, trust me, I understand that. He is very dedicated to his duty, and it's clear as can be. That said, I think he has his own independent sense of justice (I mean, he freaks out over the idea of them being charged with kidnapping the princess, yet he doesn't deny Bowser, a big, bad evil that the Star Spirits surely would be leery of allying with), and I could see that making for interesting conflict. He also seemed very downtrodden about leaving his friends for good, something that makes me wonder, "What if he took the risk to come back for leisure? What if he was restricted from seeing them beyond what's necessary? What if he got a taste of friendship and ended up missing it so badly that he sneaked back to see them? What if he got in hot water over that?"

I dunno, I don't see Geno as just going along with whatever he's told 100%. It symbolizes a lack of sense of self to me. Him not being his own person is something that bugs me and just doesn't have much room for growth. Feeding on that potential for things to become multi-faceted and complex, even to the point of straining to balance duty with his own personal wants, is something that's intriguing to me. It gives Geno a level of depth beyond just, "He listens to his higher authority, he does his job, he leaves, he serves them without a second thought, and that's that." It's something I encourage, oftentimes because I see Geno portrayed very one-dimensional. Thinking outside the box is just a thing I do, and with a character like Geno, he has a lot of room for it as long as his core fundamentals are kept.

this ended up going way longer than I thought it would so I thought one of these might be appropriate.

Spoiler

I'd like to start by saying that bowser isn't evil, especially in the rpg's where the various creative teams have softened him up from miyamoto's initial vision and frankly now he's about as much of a threat as dedede. As big a deal in the grand scope of the universe the star spirits are they would likely be able to tell that, as we got to see from the first game, that bowser's behavior stems from some deep and unresolved emotional issues namely self-confidence and a fear of inadequacy, which he tries to hide behind a proud and pompous exterior. they would know that there is good in him and could grow to be a better person, maybe thinking the journey at hand might create the space for that?( though I'd imagine the events of paper mario would have heavily tried their patience on that : ) I mean sure he's always kidnapping peach and generally being a nuisance( though like many a theorist I'm heavily suspicious about the true nature of the relationship the three share, especially since he's been invited to literally all their leisure events) but like the earlier kirby example compared to the other villains he's almost a joke. I mean look at the shroobs, who seized control of the entire kingdom, turning toad town to rubble and killing off all dissenters, keeping the rest just barely alive hooked up to use as living batteries. even the smithy gang were committing far more egregious acts throughout the land such as the attack on rose town( which would have left them permanently frozen for all time had the gang not stopped bowyer) and literally destroying the balance of the universe by shattering star road which if you stop to think about all the deeper implications about how a world where all hopes and desires would go unrealized would be catastrophic. Maybe I'm just looking too deep into him the same with you and geno but the big goof deserves better than what he gets in the mainline series when we know would could be.

anyway I think the main difference here is that I don't see a lot of the points you bring up as actual conflicts with my original post though maybe I should reiterate a bit. the ending that your brought up is a good example, he clearly has become quite fond of his new friends after the grand adventure they shared but puts his personal desires aside to return to star road and deal with whatever cosmic threats need dealing with now as a devoted envoy of order and justice, and with entire universe to tend to I imagine him and his cohorts are kept quite busy. obviously we don't know what happened afterwards and the sky's the limit on the possibility. Personally I think he has made an endeavor to keep an eye on the mushroom kingdom,maybe in ways we never noticed. I certainly feel that future star sprite characters were spiritual successors and given that they went out of there way to get a cameo of the doll I imagine the original developers now at alphadream are quite attached to starboy and probably feel the same. Just doing what he's told is a bit of an oversimplification to me and sort of trivializes what all characters like him stand for."He listens to his higher authority, he does his job, he leaves, he serves them without a second thought, and that's that" is about as far from what I believe his true nature is as you can get. as a genuine lawful good he has dedicated his life to serving the needs of those around him. not because he has too, or out of some respect or loyalty to some ancient tradition or fate but because he has chosen it for himself. always looking to see what he can do for others first, to defend and serve those who cannot themselves. but sometimes doing the right thing is hard, requiring us to make decisions that will lead to potential hardship or suffering. But no matter what the odds geno is willing weather any storm, suffer through any challenges he might face, and make any sacrifice required of him to achieve his goal, to maintain balance in the universe and stop those would disrupt it. doing this demonstrates great humility, bravery, strength, and a strong resolve, all the traits needed of a true hero and why I deeply respect our star friend.

If your looking for a twist than how about this: did it ever strike you as odd how the star sprites, knowing full well the total capability of the smithy gang was, would think sending out a single lone star on a mission to save the world all by himself? we can clearly tell from our first encounter that geno's quest would have met a gruesome end. Even if he made it past bowyer, alone he simply doesn't stack up well against the gang as a whole and would have fallen to one of them eventually. It's my headcannon that he was on fact NOT sent by the star spirits to clean up smithy's mess but rather chose this mission himself. Well aware of smithy's power I imagine that none of the other stars would dare to stand against him and the cycle of traveling between worlds to conquer and turn into his personal production factories devoid of life or hope has been a major concern for quite some time. After the star road of mario's world had fallen ♡♪!? had finally had enough and when called to action only he offered to fight against smithy's regime. the others who had lost hope in the wake of the tragedy likely thought him mad, and a fool for recklessly throwing his life away. But he ignored their pleas and disappointed in his peers sought to go alone. Concerned but not in a position to argue the star spirits agreed to let geno go on his quest or even better maybe they didn't and he simply stole away when the opportunity arrived, believing this was what needed to be done to make good on his loyalty to the cosmic order and the stars role as it's caretakers. That said he's not a fool, he is well aware of the dangers that await him and the likelihood he would fail and meet and unfortunate end. But since theirs a job to be done and no one else to do it he steels his resolve and presses onward anyway. It was always fascinating that in all instances after this the sprites are perfectly transparent on their role in the narrative, citing this or that as why they happened to be there and assisting the player. But geno for some reason stayed relatively quiet on the matter, only after it first comes up he pauses, and says that he "serves a higher authority" to me he's coyly alluding in a way only he would understand that again, no matter the cost he must do what is right. and that the authority is not the star sprites but justice itself.

to quickly answer the last bit since this is already quite the essay when I said he would go through with something even if he didn't want to or believe in it I merely mean that he is willing to go to any length or make any sacrifice to stay true to his path he's set for himself. For example if a future story had bowser and the mushroom gang do something that would jeopardize star road then despite his love for his friends he would hold to his convictions even if it meant standing against those whom he would hold dear, no matter how painful it would be to do so and despite the likelihood he would not win

So hopefully I've gotten across why I don't think my previous comments imply that he would have to lack depth but quite the opposite. I think he is immaculate character and hero and is a fantastic twist on the stereotypical powerful stoic and serious archetype of jrpg characters by quickly revealing a rather warm and fun personality. that said the only rule I would have about extrapolating on his character would be that he would never ever place his personal feelings or desires above the greater good and more specifically his duty as a defender of star road and the balance of the world that it maintains.
I'm sorry that this sort of spilled out so far and kudos if you made it this far but you diiid say you wanted this so : )

On a separate note while were still on the idea of smrpg stuff specifically there was something thats been on my mind for a while now. in gaz's house we have a mario doll, a peach doll, a bowser doll, and a geno doll. what do those all have in common? they're all famous celebrities in-universe, all except for one. does this mean that geno is some tangential silly action figure, or like the other three is there a in fact a real person named geno wandering the planet in a dashing cap and sleek cape never to be seen in the adventure we had? If this isn't just me being dumb and overlooking some npc dialogue that brings this up than this would be one of the big things in a SMRPG sequel I would want to see resolved, after getting to know ♡♪!? who sort of pretended to be geno to fit in with the world I would love to meet the man who inspired it all. Especially since I'm of the unpopular opinion that ♡♪!?'s involvement in the story should be kept to a minimum. I don't mind him showing up and taking a guide role similar to starlow so we could keep his banter with the party but for him to come back to save the world again, by possessing a geno doll again, would feel kinda contrived and forced in a FF4 the after years sort of way were the decision was made for fanservise to the first game instead of being it's own thing. Having a real geno take the dolls place in the active party would be a great way to keep the gameplay somewhat intact while not sacrificing the integrity of the story and even making more room to explore the cast. I'd imagine ♡♪!? and geno would make for some interesting dialoge given what happened in the first game.

 

[Ovaltine]

this ended up going way longer than I thought it would so I thought one of these might be appropriate.

Spoiler

I'd like to start by saying that bowser isn't evil, especially in the rpg's where the various creative teams have softened him up from miyamoto's initial vision and frankly now he's about as much of a threat as dedede. As big a deal in the grand scope of the universe the star spirits are they would likely be able to tell that, as we got to see from the first game, that bowser's behavior stems from some deep and unresolved emotional issues namely self-confidence and a fear of inadequacy, which he tries to hide behind a proud and pompous exterior. they would know that there is good in him and could grow to be a better person, maybe thinking the journey at hand might create the space for that?( though I'd imagine the events of paper mario would have heavily tried their patience on that : ) I mean sure he's always kidnapping peach and generally being a nuisance( though like many a theorist I'm heavily suspicious about the true nature of the relationship the three share, especially since he's been invited to literally all their leisure events) but like the earlier kirby example compared to the other villains he's almost a joke. I mean look at the shroobs, who seized control of the entire kingdom, turning toad town to rubble and killing off all dissenters, keeping the rest just barely alive hooked up to use as living batteries. even the smithy gang were committing far more egregious acts throughout the land such as the attack on rose town( which would have left them permanently frozen for all time had the gang not stopped bowyer) and literally destroying the balance of the universe by shattering star road which if you stop to think about all the deeper implications about how a world where all hopes and desires would go unrealized would be catastrophic. Maybe I'm just looking too deep into him the same with you and geno but the big goof deserves better than what he gets in the mainline series when we know would could be.

anyway I think the main difference here is that I don't see a lot of the points you bring up as actual conflicts with my original post though maybe I should reiterate a bit. the ending that your brought up is a good example, he clearly has become quite fond of his new friends after the grand adventure they shared but puts his personal desires aside to return to star road and deal with whatever cosmic threats need dealing with now as a devoted envoy of order and justice, and with entire universe to tend to I imagine him and his cohorts are kept quite busy. obviously we don't know what happened afterwards and the sky's the limit on the possibility. Personally I think he has made an endeavor to keep an eye on the mushroom kingdom,maybe in ways we never noticed. I certainly feel that future star sprite characters were spiritual successors and given that they went out of there way to get a cameo of the doll I imagine the original developers now at alphadream are quite attached to starboy and probably feel the same. Just doing what he's told is a bit of an oversimplification to me and sort of trivializes what all characters like him stand for."He listens to his higher authority, he does his job, he leaves, he serves them without a second thought, and that's that" is about as far from what I believe his true nature is as you can get. as a genuine lawful good he has dedicated his life to serving the needs of those around him. not because he has too, or out of some respect or loyalty to some ancient tradition or fate but because he has chosen it for himself. always looking to see what he can do for others first, to defend and serve those who cannot themselves. but sometimes doing the right thing is hard, requiring us to make decisions that will lead to potential hardship or suffering. But no matter what the odds geno is willing weather any storm, suffer through any challenges he might face, and make any sacrifice required of him to achieve his goal, to maintain balance in the universe and stop those would disrupt it. doing this demonstrates great humility, bravery, strength, and a strong resolve, all the traits needed of a true hero and why I deeply respect our star friend.

If your looking for a twist than how about this: did it ever strike you as odd how the star sprites, knowing full well the total capability of the smithy gang was, would think sending out a single lone star on a mission to save the world all by himself? we can clearly tell from our first encounter that geno's quest would have met a gruesome end. Even if he made it past bowyer, alone he simply doesn't stack up well against the gang as a whole and would have fallen to one of them eventually. It's my headcannon that he was on fact NOT sent by the star spirits to clean up smithy's mess but rather chose this mission himself. Well aware of smithy's power I imagine that none of the other stars would dare to stand against him and the cycle of traveling between worlds to conquer and turn into his personal production factories devoid of life or hope has been a major concern for quite some time. After the star road of mario's world had fallen ♡♪!? had finally had enough and when called to action only he offered to fight against smithy's regime. the others who had lost hope in the wake of the tragedy likely thought him mad, and a fool for recklessly throwing his life away. But he ignored their pleas and disappointed in his peers sought to go alone. Concerned but not in a position to argue the star spirits agreed to let geno go on his quest or even better maybe they didn't and he simply stole away when the opportunity arrived, believing this was what needed to be done to make good on his loyalty to the cosmic order and the stars role as it's caretakers. That said he's not a fool, he is well aware of the dangers that await him and the likelihood he would fail and meet and unfortunate end. But since theirs a job to be done and no one else to do it he steels his resolve and presses onward anyway. It was always fascinating that in all instances after this the sprites are perfectly transparent on their role in the narrative, citing this or that as why they happened to be there and assisting the player. But geno for some reason stayed relatively quiet on the matter, only after it first comes up he pauses, and says that he "serves a higher authority" to me he's coyly alluding in a way only he would understand that again, no matter the cost he must do what is right. and that the authority is not the star sprites but justice itself.

to quickly answer the last bit since this is already quite the essay when I said he would go through with something even if he didn't want to or believe in it I merely mean that he is willing to go to any length or make any sacrifice to stay true to his path he's set for himself. For example if a future story had bowser and the mushroom gang do something that would jeopardize star road then despite his love for his friends he would hold to his convictions even if it meant standing against those whom he would hold dear, no matter how painful it would be to do so and despite the likelihood he would not win

So hopefully I've gotten across why I don't think my previous comments imply that he would have to lack depth but quite the opposite. I think he is immaculate character and hero and is a fantastic twist on the stereotypical powerful stoic and serious archetype of jrpg characters by quickly revealing a rather warm and fun personality. that said the only rule I would have about extrapolating on his character would be that he would never ever place his personal feelings or desires above the greater good and more specifically his duty as a defender of star road and the balance of the world that it maintains.
I'm sorry that this sort of spilled out so far and kudos if you made it this far but you diiid say you wanted this so : )

On a separate note while were still on the idea of smrpg stuff specifically there was something thats been on my mind for a while now. in gaz's house we have a mario doll, a peach doll, a bowser doll, and a geno doll. what do those all have in common? they're all famous celebrities in-universe, all except for one. does this mean that geno is some tangential silly action figure, or like the other three is there a in fact a real person named geno wandering the planet in a dashing cap and sleek cape never to be seen in the adventure we had? If this isn't just me being dumb and overlooking some npc dialogue that brings this up than this would be one of the big things in a SMRPG sequel I would want to see resolved, after getting to know ♡♪!? who sort of pretended to be geno to fit in with the world I would love to meet the man who inspired it all. Especially since I'm of the unpopular opinion that ♡♪!?'s involvement in the story should be kept to a minimum. I don't mind him showing up and taking a guide role similar to starlow so we could keep his banter with the party but for him to come back to save the world again, by possessing a geno doll again, would feel kinda contrived and forced in a FF4 the after years sort of way were the decision was made for fanservise to the first game instead of being it's own thing. Having a real geno take the dolls place in the active party would be a great way to keep the gameplay somewhat intact while not sacrificing the integrity of the story and even making more room to explore the cast. I'd imagine ♡♪!? and geno would make for some interesting dialoge given what happened in the first game.

Your take is a really good one, I have to say. I've got more I can respond with, but I'll do that when I'm not freshly woken up.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Why wouldn't Square allow several characters as DLC? It's literally free money for them.

First off: like Ovaltine said it's Square-Enix.

Second off: it's Sakurai's game so he probably wouldn't want too many characters from the same company to get into one Smash game.

At least Enix seems somewhat reasonable to work with.

I know they're one company now, but I remember a friend of mine telling me Square was the lesser of two evils between Square and Enix before they merged with each other. Is that true?

 

[Ovaltine]

this ended up going way longer than I thought it would so I thought one of these might be appropriate.

Spoiler

I'd like to start by saying that bowser isn't evil, especially in the rpg's where the various creative teams have softened him up from miyamoto's initial vision and frankly now he's about as much of a threat as dedede. As big a deal in the grand scope of the universe the star spirits are they would likely be able to tell that, as we got to see from the first game, that bowser's behavior stems from some deep and unresolved emotional issues namely self-confidence and a fear of inadequacy, which he tries to hide behind a proud and pompous exterior. they would know that there is good in him and could grow to be a better person, maybe thinking the journey at hand might create the space for that?( though I'd imagine the events of paper mario would have heavily tried their patience on that : ) I mean sure he's always kidnapping peach and generally being a nuisance( though like many a theorist I'm heavily suspicious about the true nature of the relationship the three share, especially since he's been invited to literally all their leisure events) but like the earlier kirby example compared to the other villains he's almost a joke. I mean look at the shroobs, who seized control of the entire kingdom, turning toad town to rubble and killing off all dissenters, keeping the rest just barely alive hooked up to use as living batteries. even the smithy gang were committing far more egregious acts throughout the land such as the attack on rose town( which would have left them permanently frozen for all time had the gang not stopped bowyer) and literally destroying the balance of the universe by shattering star road which if you stop to think about all the deeper implications about how a world where all hopes and desires would go unrealized would be catastrophic. Maybe I'm just looking too deep into him the same with you and geno but the big goof deserves better than what he gets in the mainline series when we know would could be.

anyway I think the main difference here is that I don't see a lot of the points you bring up as actual conflicts with my original post though maybe I should reiterate a bit. the ending that your brought up is a good example, he clearly has become quite fond of his new friends after the grand adventure they shared but puts his personal desires aside to return to star road and deal with whatever cosmic threats need dealing with now as a devoted envoy of order and justice, and with entire universe to tend to I imagine him and his cohorts are kept quite busy. obviously we don't know what happened afterwards and the sky's the limit on the possibility. Personally I think he has made an endeavor to keep an eye on the mushroom kingdom,maybe in ways we never noticed. I certainly feel that future star sprite characters were spiritual successors and given that they went out of there way to get a cameo of the doll I imagine the original developers now at alphadream are quite attached to starboy and probably feel the same. Just doing what he's told is a bit of an oversimplification to me and sort of trivializes what all characters like him stand for."He listens to his higher authority, he does his job, he leaves, he serves them without a second thought, and that's that" is about as far from what I believe his true nature is as you can get. as a genuine lawful good he has dedicated his life to serving the needs of those around him. not because he has too, or out of some respect or loyalty to some ancient tradition or fate but because he has chosen it for himself. always looking to see what he can do for others first, to defend and serve those who cannot themselves. but sometimes doing the right thing is hard, requiring us to make decisions that will lead to potential hardship or suffering. But no matter what the odds geno is willing weather any storm, suffer through any challenges he might face, and make any sacrifice required of him to achieve his goal, to maintain balance in the universe and stop those would disrupt it. doing this demonstrates great humility, bravery, strength, and a strong resolve, all the traits needed of a true hero and why I deeply respect our star friend.

If your looking for a twist than how about this: did it ever strike you as odd how the star sprites, knowing full well the total capability of the smithy gang was, would think sending out a single lone star on a mission to save the world all by himself? we can clearly tell from our first encounter that geno's quest would have met a gruesome end. Even if he made it past bowyer, alone he simply doesn't stack up well against the gang as a whole and would have fallen to one of them eventually. It's my headcannon that he was on fact NOT sent by the star spirits to clean up smithy's mess but rather chose this mission himself. Well aware of smithy's power I imagine that none of the other stars would dare to stand against him and the cycle of traveling between worlds to conquer and turn into his personal production factories devoid of life or hope has been a major concern for quite some time. After the star road of mario's world had fallen ♡♪!? had finally had enough and when called to action only he offered to fight against smithy's regime. the others who had lost hope in the wake of the tragedy likely thought him mad, and a fool for recklessly throwing his life away. But he ignored their pleas and disappointed in his peers sought to go alone. Concerned but not in a position to argue the star spirits agreed to let geno go on his quest or even better maybe they didn't and he simply stole away when the opportunity arrived, believing this was what needed to be done to make good on his loyalty to the cosmic order and the stars role as it's caretakers. That said he's not a fool, he is well aware of the dangers that await him and the likelihood he would fail and meet and unfortunate end. But since theirs a job to be done and no one else to do it he steels his resolve and presses onward anyway. It was always fascinating that in all instances after this the sprites are perfectly transparent on their role in the narrative, citing this or that as why they happened to be there and assisting the player. But geno for some reason stayed relatively quiet on the matter, only after it first comes up he pauses, and says that he "serves a higher authority" to me he's coyly alluding in a way only he would understand that again, no matter the cost he must do what is right. and that the authority is not the star sprites but justice itself.

to quickly answer the last bit since this is already quite the essay when I said he would go through with something even if he didn't want to or believe in it I merely mean that he is willing to go to any length or make any sacrifice to stay true to his path he's set for himself. For example if a future story had bowser and the mushroom gang do something that would jeopardize star road then despite his love for his friends he would hold to his convictions even if it meant standing against those whom he would hold dear, no matter how painful it would be to do so and despite the likelihood he would not win

So hopefully I've gotten across why I don't think my previous comments imply that he would have to lack depth but quite the opposite. I think he is immaculate character and hero and is a fantastic twist on the stereotypical powerful stoic and serious archetype of jrpg characters by quickly revealing a rather warm and fun personality. that said the only rule I would have about extrapolating on his character would be that he would never ever place his personal feelings or desires above the greater good and more specifically his duty as a defender of star road and the balance of the world that it maintains.
I'm sorry that this sort of spilled out so far and kudos if you made it this far but you diiid say you wanted this so : )

On a separate note while were still on the idea of smrpg stuff specifically there was something thats been on my mind for a while now. in gaz's house we have a mario doll, a peach doll, a bowser doll, and a geno doll. what do those all have in common? they're all famous celebrities in-universe, all except for one. does this mean that geno is some tangential silly action figure, or like the other three is there a in fact a real person named geno wandering the planet in a dashing cap and sleek cape never to be seen in the adventure we had? If this isn't just me being dumb and overlooking some npc dialogue that brings this up than this would be one of the big things in a SMRPG sequel I would want to see resolved, after getting to know ♡♪!? who sort of pretended to be geno to fit in with the world I would love to meet the man who inspired it all. Especially since I'm of the unpopular opinion that ♡♪!?'s involvement in the story should be kept to a minimum. I don't mind him showing up and taking a guide role similar to starlow so we could keep his banter with the party but for him to come back to save the world again, by possessing a geno doll again, would feel kinda contrived and forced in a FF4 the after years sort of way were the decision was made for fanservise to the first game instead of being it's own thing. Having a real geno take the dolls place in the active party would be a great way to keep the gameplay somewhat intact while not sacrificing the integrity of the story and even making more room to explore the cast. I'd imagine ♡♪!? and geno would make for some interesting dialoge given what happened in the first game.

Okay, I'm up and rarin' to go! Thanks for all of this mental exercise, by the way. Again, this is my jam.

Spoiler: a whole bunch of drivel

First off, Bowser. Yeah, I used the wrong terminology last night in terms of him being 'evil'. He's not 'evil', moreso just antagonistic and brutal. Evil would more equate to the likes of the Shadow Queen, the Dark Star, Smithy, etc. Bowser has been a notable threat multiple times in the past, though, and isn't what I'd call 'almost a joke'. I think that'd be a bit of an insult to his impact. He's the king of all of the koopas and has reason to be as such beyond birthright. He's incredibly powerful and has a good handle on dominion. His kingdom quakes before him. He's taken the Star Rod from the Star Spirits, practically gods in their own rights, and he's almost meddled directly with space-time in both Galaxy games. Both of those could have had catastrophic outcomes beyond anything Bowser could have intended. Whether or not he means to, the potential for being a gigantic threat, more than one could imagine, is definitely there. When it comes to that, I'd see the Star Spirits as being more leery of him, mostly because of the risk of something going terribly wrong. Watering down Bowser's potential as 'almost a joke' isn't fair to him, but on the other hand, it also isn't fair to refer to him as a big baddie without reason beyond 'he's bad and evil because he can be'. That'd be a ridiculous stretch that doesn't do the character justice.

Anyhow, this isn't about Bowser, but our star boy.

I'd like to bring up the point that it seems we both agree on: Geno acts as he does not because of tradition or fate, but because his sense of justice aligns with protecting everyone's wishes. It's less his higher authority as a result, at least to me. He will protect the wishes of this planet and any others no matter what, even if the Star Spirits refuse to give him their blessing. If they don't see eye-to-eye on something that could hugely shape the course of destiny via wishes, that could be a massive kerfuffle. Geno's duty is not one to take lightly, and he is well-aware of this. I could easily see it resulting in a divide, and given Geno's independent nature and notably courage, if the Star Spirits take a course that is more corrupt or otherwise short-sighted, I can see him rebelling. In the end, he wants to set things right, no matter the cost, yeah? Even if it means his elders finding reason to be disappointed in him, as long as his goals are achieved and everyone's wishes are safe, then that's all that matters. Yes, even though I'd be willing to say that he's 'friends' with Bowser, if he does something against his idea of righteousness, Geno will fight against him.

Because of all of this, Geno just comes across to me as almost a vigilante-type. Justice is obviously very important to this character. Star Road, everyone's wishes, are his world. If he feels what he's doing is right or otherwise acceptable, I can only imagine he'd be difficult to assuage in terms of a different direction. With such heroism comes an extent of stubbornness, and I think that'd be a fascinating character foil. As of now, Geno doesn't have much of one, and a character with balanced pros and cons is a healthy one in fiction. Stubbornness and a desire to have personal fulfillment via his friends, alongside his broader stroke of fulfillment world- and even universe-wide, would make things very interesting to me. Striking a balance between the two, questioning what he's doing and if it's the right choice, potentially defying his superiors, figuring out everything he wants to do as his own person, all while still devoted to Star Road and doing whatever he can to protect it... is what I see in Geno. It's a whole world of grey area in a mind that's more black and white, and that exploration into his character is something I'd love to write out someday. It'd probably be a lot better written down in proper storytelling form than the way I'm just flatly explaining things, haha.

I have to say, though, that I do apologize for my remarks about an interpretation like that coming across as more one-dimensional. You're right that it doesn't have to be so trivialized. The way you portray it sounds much more multi-faceted, and it definitely interested me. Thanks so much for having this chat with me! It's nice to bounce this kind of stuff off of someone, even if on some points, we may just have to agree to disagree — and that's okay. Like I said, that's the beauty of creativity.

To wrap this post up, let me just embed this. I think this embodies how I view Geno pretty well rofl. (Also, it's Nathalie's Geno, so it's extra blessed.)

Snufkin and Geno both give me extremely strong independent-anarchist vibes, but geno is more business about it pic.twitter.com/QWSteAhEMu

— Nathalie F (@Loopyyylupe) May 14, 2019

By the way, yeah, who the heck is the real Geno, the one the doll is meant to represent and NOT the actual star? Is his name even Geno, or is it just the name Gaz came up for that doll in particular? Like, whaddap widdat? I agree, I think that'd be SUPER interesting to see in a hypothetical sequel!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

First off: like Ovaltine said it's Square-Enix.

Second off: it's Sakurai's game so he probably wouldn't want too many characters from the same company to get into one Smash game.



I know they're one company now, but I remember a friend of mine telling me Square was the lesser of two evils between Square and Enix before they merged with each other. Is that true?

Can't say I heard that one before.

Also, for the too many characters point, it doesn't explain how Bamco somehow still doesn't have more than the one, it's far from upsetting the balance at this point. Also, let's be careful not to let your assumption become a fan rule, for all we know one of the companies will wind up with 4 characters in here in total this time.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Can't say I heard that one before.

Also, for the too many characters point, it doesn't explain how Bamco somehow still doesn't have more than the one, it's far from upsetting the balance at this point. Also, let's be careful not to let your assumption become a fan rule, for all we know one of the companies will wind up with 4 characters in here in total this time.

I was talking about for one game, you know the usual pattern where one character for base and one character for DLC get's in from the same company. Mega Man and Ryu for Smash 4 for example. I also agree that the 3rd party cycle is unbalanced with Namco-Bandai only having one fighter. Namco-Bandai strongly deserves another fighter especially since they helped Sakurai and Nintendo make this masterpiece of a game.

Edit: I think we are getting another Namco-Bandai rep in the Season Pass and I think it's going to be Lloyd Irving. But honestly if I could choose, I would pick Yoshimitsu.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I was talking about for one game, you know the usual pattern where one character for base and one character for DLC get's in from the same company. Mega Man and Ryu for Smash 4 for example. I also agree that the 3rd party cycle is unbalanced with Namco-Bandai only having one fighter. Namco-Bandai strongly deserves another fighter especially since they helped Sakurai and Nintendo make this masterpiece of a game.

Fair enough, although as we know and learned by now, what we think is an established pattern eventually usually gets broken in some way come the next entry.

If worse comes to worst, we oughta have a general Bamco character support thread, where people band together for Heihachi/Agumon/Nightmare/Klonoa/Valkyrie/The Prince/Lloyd, or what have you. Because as it stands, it's pretty much a Mexican standoff.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Why wasn't Geno in this game?

Or in Mario Hoops 3-on-3?

...Or Mario Sports Mix?

Dang, Square missed a number of opportunities.

They probably wanted to stick with their more popular franchises' characters, so they went with 5 Final Fantasy characters and 1 Dragon Quest character. After all, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were more popular in the west.

 

[Nicnac]

I was talking about for one game, you know the usual pattern where one character for base and one character for DLC get's in from the same company. Mega Man and Ryu for Smash 4 for example.

This is the only instance of this I can find.
Snake and Sonic came without DLC.
No new base Sega reps in 4, though Bayo did come as DLC.
No DLC Bamco reps in 4.
No base Squenix reps in 4.
(So far) no Konami, Capcom or Bamco reps for DLC, and in the pass if two are in, one's getting shafted. I wouldn't call it a pattern.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This is the only instance of this I can find.
Snake and Sonic came without DLC.
No new base Sega reps in 4, though Bayo did come as DLC.
No DLC Bamco reps in 4.
No base Squenix reps in 4.
(So far) no Konami, Capcom or Bamco reps for DLC, and in the pass if two are in, one's getting shafted. I wouldn't call it a pattern.

Wait... You're right. There is no pattern whatsoever lol!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

They probably wanted to stick with their more popular franchises' characters, so they went with 5 Final Fantasy characters and 1 Dragon Quest character. After all, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were more popular in the west.

Well, yes and no. Until now, DQ has been stuck underneath the shadow of FF, as far as overall Western popularity went. Some of the DQ games were even left in Japan (particularly DQ10, which is an online-centric game that was passed over, while FF11 and FF14 were brought over with little issue), and we never got DQ11 in a portable form exported before the Switch happened. If FF is Mario, DQ is Luigi.

Hero's inclusion in Ultimate is the best thing that's happened in decades, in regards to DQ exposure to the West.

 

[MattX20]

I'm thinking I'm going to be playing 8 the most of the 4 Heroes. I'm really liking DQ 8 for the 3DS so far, and his design and character from the game just clicks with me.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm thinking I'm going to be playing 8 the most of the 4 Heroes. I'm really liking DQ 8 for the 3DS so far, and his design and character from the game just clicks with me.

He seems to be the fan favorite. Wasn't he chosen because of his popularity among the western fan base? I think I heard about that.

 

[Shado-will]

Okay, people are talking about how they see Geno, so I guess it's my turn now.

Spoiler: Pizza Time

I remember seeing someone posting that they saw Geno being somewhat like the Camus archetype from Fire Emblem. Basically, Geno is extremely loyal to his authorities and homeland, even to a fault. If they were to go a stray from the just and righteous path, he'd be too loyal to rebel against them. And I do agree with this... to an extent. I feel like Geno would be one of those characters that allowed themselves to be convinced by their higher ups that they were doing the right thing, and thus stayed on their side. That is, until they saw what they were doing first hand. In that scenario, Geno would defect/rebel against his former superiors and do the right thing. I wouldn't put this as Geno being too trusting, but he didn't want to leave his friends and family unless he absolutely had no choice about it.

Going aside from his duty and stuff, I really like Nathalie's interpretation of Geno and that's what I find Geno being like personality-wise. He's very duty-bound, sometimes getting frustrated when his orders are challenged. But he's also very kind and loyal to his friends too, and I love that he can get a little sassy at times. One of the smaller details that I really like is that Geno is an avid reader, and I feel like that just fits him really well as he was already one of the more wiser party members. I couple this with thinking that Geno can be a bit awkward at times when talking to people, not really knowing what to say as he basically descended from heaven to Earth.

I feel like Geno just has a lot of potential to be any character. I hope that in a potential remake or sequel, they take time to build up and delve more into the original character of the game, like Final Fantasy games. Maybe more dialogue between characters and NPCs instead of them only really focusing on Mario.

Those are kinda my more basic thoughts, I didn't write that much, because I'm a kinda tired since I just woke up so I might say more later.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

He seems to be the fan favorite. Wasn't he chosen because of his popularity among the western fan base? I think I heard about that.

That is exactly right. As far as DQ goes in the West, DQ8 is the equivalent of FF7 in terms of popularity.

 

[Dorayaki]

They probably wanted to stick with their more popular franchises' characters, so they went with 5 Final Fantasy characters and 1 Dragon Quest character. After all, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were more popular in the west.

Back to the topic of the games, casue they were meant to be special crossover with Square franchises, so they would not had made it a whole Mario roster as Square was part of the games. Part of the roster was meant to be characters from Square's own franchises.

The original point was more like Geno and Mallow could had fit in other Mario crossovers as Square was present.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

That is exactly right. As far as DQ goes in the West, DQ8 is the equivalent of FF7 in terms of popularity.

Speaking of FF7, when I first saw the Nintendo Direct in which Cloud was revealed for Smash 4, I never even knew about him. Then when I got a Nintendo Switch, I got Final Fantasy VII four months ago and I got to play the game for myself firsthand. It was amazing, and I got to find out the origin of Cloud's special moves in Smash. Blade Beam and Climhazzard in Smash are based off of his Level 2 Limit Breaks in FF7, his Cross Slash Side B is based off of his second Level 1 Limit Break, Finishing Touch is based off of his second Level 3 Limit Break, and Omnislash is based off Cloud's Level 4 Limit Break. Kind of interesting that Cloud has moves based off his Limit Break attacks. Now as for Hero, I think I'm going to play with Eight and Erdrick. While I was playing a demo of Dragon Quest X: Awakening of the Five Tribes at GameStop once, I think the demo had Eight as the playable hero, and not the one with the red coat.

 

[Shado-will]

So the other day, YouTube recommended me a video of someone do a playthrough of SMRPG, and when Geno was surrounded by the star pieces after beating Smithy, they made a joke about Geno ascending to Godhood. Then I remembered that there were 7 Chaos Emeralds, and 7 Star Pieces... what if Geno used the 7 star pieces to become Super Geno?

Where's that dam* fourth star piece?!

 

[maf91186]

If worse comes to worst, we oughta have a general Bamco character support thread, where people band together for Heihachi/Agumon/Nightmare/Klonoa/Valkyrie/The Prince/Lloyd, or what have you. Because as it stands, it's pretty much a Mexican standoff.

I know it's a bit out there but my pick would be either Dig-Dug or Kite

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

So, EVO may definitely get an announcement of some kind, considering almost 10k people signed up for it.

 

[Ovaltine]

So, EVO may definitely get an announcement of some kind, considering almost 10k people signed up for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if it did, but even then, it'd probably just be an announcement of an announcement at most.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I wouldn't be surprised if it did, but even then, it'd probably just be an announcement of an announcement at most.

Announcement for an announcement, you say? So an announcement for an announcement is still definitely an announcement.

 

[Ovaltine]

Announcement for an announcement, you say? So an announcement for an announcement is still definitely an announcement.

But then what if it was an announcement for an announcement of an announcement bundled with another announcement within an announcement?

It would be a superannouncement, an announcement so great that it exists and doesn't exist all at the same time. It's like superposition. The hype is there, yet at the same time, it isn't there.

It would be mind-blowing.