Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

This has been explored a lot in this thread but a lot of his appeal in coming to Smash is how he's a very specialized projectile specialist. Design wise, Geno is full of compartments that hold weapons. His fingers, his wrists, his palms, and even his elbows have at least one weapon tucked away in them. He can launch his own hands and can even turn into a cannon. He also has various laser attacks. He's kind of like a Swiss Army Knife and it's almost like he's a Gundam in a tiny wooden body. He's also fast and, as things are currently in Smash, we don't really have any quick characters that specialize in projectiles (the fastest is Toon Link who's ranked at 25). Because he specializes in firearms, he's notably different than Megaman, Samus, and Mii Gunner.

As for his appeal, I can't speak for everyone but one of the things I've always liked about him is how out there he is, even for a Mario character. The character is designed like a classic RPG mage but he's a doll that functions like a Transformer/mecha. In comparison, Mallow looks like a Mario character design wise. There's no question that he's from the Mario universe but Geno kind of emulates that he's an outsider, as if he was actually from something like Final Fantasy. There's more but this is one of the quick reasons why I became attached to the character when I was a kid.

 

[T2by4]

So I remember someone discussing a possible upcoming nintendo video featuring the hero with "very unpopular thing" going to happen. Do we know if it's happening soon? Possibly a monday direct or something? I fear with the songs being taken down that it could be a sign of our boy being mii costumed.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So I remember someone discussing a possible upcoming nintendo video featuring the hero with "very unpopular thing" going to happen. Do we know if it's happening soon? Possibly a monday direct or something? I fear with the songs being taken down that it could be a sign of our boy being mii costumed.

“an unpopular thing” could mean lots of different things. Geno still isn’t completely out of the question.

 

[ShotoStar 2]

So I remember someone discussing a possible upcoming nintendo video featuring the hero with "very unpopular thing" going to happen. Do we know if it's happening soon? Possibly a monday direct or something? I fear with the songs being taken down that it could be a sign of our boy being mii costumed.

Well based off of the reactions from last time Geno was a Mii Costume it was mostly positive so I wouldn't really call the Geno Mii Costume something that salt inducing, Sure it would be kind of lame but I'm sure most of us would take the "At least he has something which is better than nothing" stance.

Plus it really depends on what the statement is targeting if its towards the general audience of Smash then nah I don't think they're talking about the Geno Mii Costume and even if they mean the general Smash community I still doubt it if anything a Sora Mii Costume, RNG Spells, Something to do with Fire Emblem or something else along those lines would be more salt inducing than the Geno Mii Costume to the General Smash community.

The only thing I can think of is if they're talking directly to the Geno fanbase on that statement which in that case then yeah, It probably means the Geno Mii Costume. Though I would think if the Challenger Approaching video is coming Monday or Tuesday we would've heard something about the Geno Mii Costume already in which case we haven't.

And finally I'm pretty sure that statement was debunked or false wasn't it? I could've sworn someone came in here and told us that the statement was more along the lines of speculation.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

This has been explored a lot in this thread but a lot of his appeal in coming to Smash is how he's a very specialized projectile specialist. Design wise, Geno is full of compartments that hold weapons. His fingers, his wrists, his palms, and even his elbows have at least one weapon tucked away in them. He can launch his own hands and can even turn into a cannon. He also has various laser attacks. He's kind of like a Swiss Army Knife and it's almost like he's a Gundam in a tiny wooden body. He's also fast and, as things are currently in Smash, we don't really have any quick characters that specialize in projectiles (the fastest is Toon Link who's ranked at 25). Because he specializes in firearms, he's notably different than Megaman, Samus, and Mii Gunner.

As for his appeal, I can't speak for everyone but one of the things I've always liked about him is how out there he is, even for a Mario character. The character is designed like a classic RPG mage but he's a doll that functions like a Transformer/mecha. In comparison, Mallow looks like a Mario character design wise. There's no question that he's from the Mario universe but Geno kind of emulates that he's an outsider, as if he was actually from something like Final Fantasy. There's more but this is one of the quick reasons why I became attached to the character when I was a kid.

This basically nailed it. And the only thing I'd add is that Geno could also have a timed hits gimmick that'd set him apart from the rest of the cast where like in SMRPG, you press a button at a certain time after attacks to make it do extra damage/knockback. I've noticed Sakurai likes DLC/3rd party characters to have something that no else does (Cloud's Limit, Ryu's entire control scheme, Joker's Arsene, Hero's menu thing) and timed hits would be perfect for him

 

[Ovaltine]

So I remember someone discussing a possible upcoming nintendo video featuring the hero with "very unpopular thing" going to happen. Do we know if it's happening soon? Possibly a monday direct or something? I fear with the songs being taken down that it could be a sign of our boy being mii costumed.

That was misinformation. Sabi's source wasn't saying that out of any facts that he was aware of. He was just curious about what content might happen and whether or not it'll be a salt fest. Basically, he's in the same position as the rest of us and was stating his opinion on the climate right now. It's nothing concrete at all.

 

[Freduardo]

I'm pretty sure Rosalina got a costume in Super Mario Maker 1, so that's not entirely true. Also, isn't she in Super Mario Run, one of the main series Mario games?

You’re thinking of Daisy. She had a double jump in mario run to differentiate her. Rosalina is not in that game.

Also she isn’t really a character in mario maker 1, she’s an amiibo costume. That denotes no specific ability.

Besides Galaxy, I think Rosalina has only appeared in Mario Run, Mario Maker, and 3D World.

She’s not in mario run, that’s daisy. There is a petition to put rosalina in mario run.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You’re thinking of Daisy. She had a double jump in mario run to differentiate her. Rosalina is not in that game.

Also she isn’t really a character in mario maker 1, she’s an amiibo costume. That denotes no specific ability.

Eh, she's still in a 2D Mario game even then. That's just silly to say she's not. She's still being played as overall. It's clearly the character and intended that way. It's like saying Yoshi isn't in Super Mario World just cause he's a power-up. Do note I'm saying that "she is in the game", though being played as is clearly up for debate if it really counts. No less a real appearance. It's funny too, cause it's the only time Waluigi appears at all in a main Mario game.

 

[GrungeMan]

This has been explored a lot in this thread but a lot of his appeal in coming to Smash is how he's a very specialized projectile specialist. Design wise, Geno is full of compartments that hold weapons. His fingers, his wrists, his palms, and even his elbows have at least one weapon tucked away in them. He can launch his own hands and can even turn into a cannon. He also has various laser attacks. He's kind of like a Swiss Army Knife and it's almost like he's a Gundam in a tiny wooden body. He's also fast and, as things are currently in Smash, we don't really have any quick characters that specialize in projectiles (the fastest is Toon Link who's ranked at 25). Because he specializes in firearms, he's notably different than Megaman, Samus, and Mii Gunner.

As for his appeal, I can't speak for everyone but one of the things I've always liked about him is how out there he is, even for a Mario character. The character is designed like a classic RPG mage but he's a doll that functions like a Transformer/mecha. In comparison, Mallow looks like a Mario character design wise. There's no question that he's from the Mario universe but Geno kind of emulates that he's an outsider, as if he was actually from something like Final Fantasy. There's more but this is one of the quick reasons why I became attached to the character when I was a kid.

Describing Geno as a cross between a mage, a Gundam in a wooden doll, and a Swiss Army Knife is probably one of the most accurate things I have ever read about Geno haha

 

[Zema]

Is it possible that someone's just messing with us by claiming copyright on those two tracks and claiming to be Nintendo?

 

[AugustusB]

https://www.gamesoundcon.com/single...g-Facts-About-Composing-Music-for-Video-Games OK I think I found something. Now I know this is the US, but I think it can help explain some things. The big takeaway from this is a quote I found to be pretty enlightening.

-With very rare exceptions, a composer contracted to write music for a video game will sign away all rights, including publishing, to the game developer or publisher.-
This is under the "WORK FOR HIRE" Fact.

I hope this can help in figuring this whole who owns what debacle. So now the BIG question is...Did the Music go to the publisher (Nintendo) or did it go to the developer (Squaresoft).

This is the next thing to figure out.

 

[Zema]

https://www.gamesoundcon.com/single...g-Facts-About-Composing-Music-for-Video-Games OK I think I found something. Now I know this is the US, but I think it can help explain some things. The big takeaway from this is a quote I found to be pretty enlightening.

-With very rare exceptions, a composer contracted to write music for a video game will sign away all rights, including publishing, to the game developer or publisher.-
This is under the "WORK FOR HIRE" Fact.

I hope this can help in figuring this whole who owns what debacle. So now the BIG question is...Did the Music go to the publisher (Nintendo) or did it go to the developer (Squaresoft).

This is the next thing to figure out.

Where else has SMRPG music popped up? Off the top of my head, I can only think of the Mushroom Kingdom theme in Fortune Street, but that was a Square Enix game.

 

[Ovaltine]

Where else has SMRPG music popped up? Off the top of my head, I can only think of the Mushroom Kingdom theme in Fortune Street, but that was a Square Enix game.

I know Superstar Saga also has the original SMRPG version of Mario's Pad in the intro (albeit with a new sound font, of course), but that's just the classic Mario Bros. theme, so I'd be hard-pressed to count that.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Eh, she's still in a 2D Mario game even then. That's just silly to say she's not. She's still being played as overall. It's clearly the character and intended that way. It's like saying Yoshi isn't in Super Mario World just cause he's a power-up. Do note I'm saying that "she is in the game", though being played as is clearly up for debate if it really counts. No less a real appearance. It's funny too, cause it's the only time Waluigi appears at all in a main Mario game.

Actually, the "lore" behind the Mystery Mushroom is that it's just Mario putting on a costume that looks like the character. So no, Rosalina technically doesn't appear in SMM.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know Superstar Saga also has the original SMRPG version of Mario's Pad in the intro (albeit with a new sound font, of course), but that's just the classic Mario Bros. theme, so I'd be hard-pressed to count that.

Plus, we know Geno was licensed via Square-Enix for the original. So it's impossible to tell if they licensed that music too.

Is the SMRPG version of Mario's Pad in the remake of Superstar Saga?

Though maybe somebody else owns the remixes anyway, due to Square-Enix preferring that music is owned by the composers. It's hard to say with remixes, as they could fall under different rules, like co-ownership since it's not the original composition.

Actually, the "lore" behind the Mystery Mushroom is that it's just Mario putting on a costume that looks like the character. So no, Rosalina technically doesn't appear in SMM.

Yeah, that's an appearance. Cameos still count as an actual character appearing in. Again, that's playing semantics to say they don't have an appearance. She's in a 2D game. Her being playable is questionable, but cameos do mean you're in the game in some way.

 

[Slender]

https://www.gamesoundcon.com/single...g-Facts-About-Composing-Music-for-Video-Games OK I think I found something. Now I know this is the US, but I think it can help explain some things. The big takeaway from this is a quote I found to be pretty enlightening.

-With very rare exceptions, a composer contracted to write music for a video game will sign away all rights, including publishing, to the game developer or publisher.-
This is under the "WORK FOR HIRE" Fact.

I hope this can help in figuring this whole who owns what debacle. So now the BIG question is...Did the Music go to the publisher (Nintendo) or did it go to the developer (Squaresoft).

This is the next thing to figure out.

I think I may have figured that out in my post early this morning. Koji Kondo was responsible for almost every track that involved an already existing Mario theme/tune, so I believe those tracks are owned by Nintendo. Everything else would end up going to Square.

EDIT: Here's the post:

This actually got me searching, and I came across something extremely odd.
Koji Kondo did in fact make a handful of tracks for Super Mario RPG, but which ones he did is super interesting. Every track in Super Mario RPG by Koji Kondo was a remix/remaster of a previous Mario series tunes, or included pieces of said tunes.

Super Mario Bros. Ground
Let's Try
In The Flower Garden
Super Pipe House
Let's Play 'Geno'
Long Long Ago...
The Axem Rangers Drop In
The End!

Super Mario Bros. Underground
From Inside the Earthen Pipe

Super Mario Bros. Invincible
Invincible Star

Super Mario Bros. 3 Spade Puzzle
Heart Beating a Little Faster

Super Mario Bros. 3 King Koopa Battle
Fight Against Koopa

The only outlier that I know of is Koopa Castle (Second Time), but oddly enough, it was actually used after it's creation in a Nintendo game once again, as part of Bowser's Magma Mountain in Mario Party. It seems that Kondo was responsible for the preexisting tracks, and therefore Nintendo would have the rights to this specific music. Everything that was original was left to Yoko Shimomura, which would make me come to the conclusion that those tracks, as well as the three FinalFantasyButNotQuite tracks would be Square's property. This is a truly confusing custody battle for this game, and it's made even more interesting when you take a look back at the original SMRPG tweet put out by Nintendo of America. Even though they most likely had permission to use the rights to Super Mario RPG due to the recent release of the game on the SNES Classic, it's still peculiar to see that the tweet used the intro with Square music attached instead of simple gameplay with the presumably owned Nintendo music already in-hand.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Breaking my silence briefly again...

Actually, the "lore" behind the Mystery Mushroom is that it's just Mario putting on a costume that looks like the character. So no, Rosalina technically doesn't appear in SMM.

Given that, I'm glad that Super Mario Run had become playable in earnest. Poor Waluigi fans still have to deal with downplayed appearances, but at least Level Up made good use of his sprite.

Something I've considered is how Nintendo of America renewed the Banjo Kazooie trademark last October, providing an example of when Nintendo has been involved in the copyright of a third party IP. After the Fall of the Grinch, everyone just sort of forgot this despite it being incredibly suspicious. Yeah, hindsight is 20-20 but it really did wind up being an "Oh?!" moment in the end.

The truth is the hardest thing to believe. Only the most ardent followers can end up suspecting it and be proven right later.

I think I may have figured that out in my post early this morning. Koji Kondo was responsible for almost every track that involved an already existing Mario theme/tune, so I believe those tracks are owned by Nintendo. Everything else would end up going to Square.

EDIT: Here's the post:

Meanwhile, his Bowser battle theme from SMB3 remix in Ultimate is the only time it ever used the bridge segment from the SMRPG version of it.

 

[AugustusB]

Though maybe somebody else owns the remixes anyway, due to Square-Enix preferring that music is owned by the composers. It's hard to say with remixes, as they could fall under different rules, like co-ownership since it's not the original composition.

Where can I find that! Has Square-Enix said this in an interview that they want the composers to own their own music for their games? Or are you talking about Remixes?

Also Slender I did see that, but just wanted to dig a smidge bit more :D

 

[Zema]

The main problem I have with all this is that it seems pretty strange that they'd claim the copyright for only the extended versions of those two songs, and not take down the normal-length tracks. I dunno, it feels like someone messing with us more than anything.

 

[AugustusB]

The main problem I have with all this is that it seems pretty strange that they'd claim the copyright for only the extended versions of those two songs, and not take down the normal-length tracks. I dunno, it feels like someone messing with us more than anything.

It pretty much could be, but would still like to find out about the copyright stuff. As a music man, this sort of stuff interests me.

 

[Slender]

Do yous remember when Yoko Shimomura put out her own remastered editions of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Goodbye, Geno? It was back in 2014 on her album memória! / The Very Best of Yoko Shimomura. The album itself was published and "Presented by SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.". The album also contained songs from Kingdom Hearts, Legend of Mana, Final Fantasy, Live a Life and a few more.

Here are the songs for anyone who hasn't heard these beautiful renditions yet!
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms
Goodbye, Geno

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Where can I find that! Has Square-Enix said this in an interview that they want the composers to own their own music for their games? Or are you talking about Remixes?

Also Slender I did see that, but just wanted to dig a smidge bit more :D

I never actually looked where it was said. I've seen it mentioned tons of times. Probably should find the source myself, derp.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The main problem I have with all this is that it seems pretty strange that they'd claim the copyright for only the extended versions of those two songs, and not take down the normal-length tracks. I dunno, it feels like someone messing with us more than anything.

Something about this reasoning bugs me.

With the Grinch leak, it became clear that someone was messing with a lot of fans, but why, in this case, would something so relatively unnoticed and innocuous be made to mess with an oddly specific subset of fans, some of which would already be believing that spirits deconfirm anyway?

Either it's actually a slip, or somebody has way too much free time on their hands for their own good.

 

[AugustusB]

I never actually looked where it was said. I've seen it mentioned tons of times. Probably should find the source myself, derp.

Yeah, I am still trying to find that answer lol. From what I have been seeing and Slender 's help, It seems clear (to me, at least) that Square likes to own its music from their games. Still trying to find the BIGGEST proof for this. Something a kin to "I am Square, and we own all our video games music. YES even Super Mario Rpg. Thank you Yoko for giving us ALL YOUR MUSIC YOU MADE FOR US! Muwhahahahaha"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I am still trying to find that answer lol. From what I have been seeing and Slender 's help, It seems clear (to me, at least) that Square likes to own its music from their games. Still trying to find the BIGGEST proof for this. Something a kin to "I am Square, and we own all our video games music. YES even Super Mario Rpg. Thank you Yoko for giving us ALL YOUR MUSIC YOU MADE FOR US! Muwhahahahaha"

We only know that some music is owned by other composers. Like Final Fantasy's(older?) music is owned by a different composer, which is why we only have two FF songs in Smash. They charge an arm and a leg at this point from what we can guess.

We don't know how it goes for every composer, but we do know that some composers keep the rights to the IP's, yeah. Why it's like that we don't know. I don't believe there's an official public statement, as due to things like licensing is really behind closed doors, so it's not relevant to the public.

 

[AugustusB]

OK this is pretty neat.

It just fits too well...what could have been.

 

[Vector Victor]

That was misinformation. Sabi's source wasn't saying that out of any facts that he was aware of. He was just curious about what content might happen and whether or not it'll be a salt fest. Basically, he's in the same position as the rest of us and was stating his opinion on the climate right now. It's nothing concrete at all.

On the subject of saltfests, I was thinking a saltfest would have to be something where a very large chunk of the Smash fanbase was against. Geno playable or deconfirmed wouldn't meet that most likely. It would have to be something lacking like FF's music issue......or something added that fans don't want or a series can't justify. One would be FE character number 8. But what if a small franchise got another character, like Kid Icarus? Or Mother?

Then I recalled that Porky was removed as a boss. Then I thought about spirits, only to discover that he has NO spirit. Now I'm distracted and confused that Porky has no representation in Ultimate. What the hell!? Even Ness' dad gets a spirit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

On the subject of saltfests, I was thinking a saltfest would have to be something where a very large chunk of the Smash fanbase was against. Geno playable or deconfirmed wouldn't meet that most likely. It would have to be something lacking like FF's music issue......or something added that fans don't want or a series can't justify. One would be FE character number 8. But what if a small franchise got another character, like Kid Icarus? Or Mother?

Then I recalled that Porky was removed as a boss. Then I thought about spirits, only to discover that he has NO spirit. Now I'm distracted and confused that Porky has no representation in Ultimate. What the hell!? Even Ness' dad gets a spirit.

Well, Sakurai's team did most of the Spirits, which he simply removed/added some in the final step. A lot of these can be a case of them not thinking about it. Frogger is another one without a spirit, but it also has nothing to do with any of Konami's series. The Absolute Safety Capsule, like Ness' Dad, serves as a fun joke too. So many of these might just be subtle. Also, weren't some of the images literally PNG's from DeviantART instead of official sources? I don't know if that was actually true, but Spirits are being handled weirdly.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, Sakurai's team did most of the Spirits, which he simply removed/added some in the final step. A lot of these can be a case of them not thinking about it. Frogger is another one without a spirit, but it also has nothing to do with any of Konami's series. The Absolute Safety Capsule, like Ness' Dad, serves as a fun joke too. So many of these might just be subtle. Also, weren't some of the images literally PNG's from DeviantART instead of official sources? I don't know if that was actually true, but Spirits are being handled weirdly.

Weird is definitely right. You can expect Adeleine and Ribbon to be ignored, but not every single paint-based Kirby character, including Paint Roller (although Elline is kinda art-based). You have ROB getting spirits from flipping photographs, yet nothing for Professor Hector. Mario Golf has a spirit, but not for the fan-favorite Plum, who did get a trophy in the Melee days. The Ice Climbers don't have any of their artwork used at all, but still get sprites used for spirits. There's a spirit for Tiny Kong's younger version, but all her teen illustrations are missing for no reason. Sylux goes without saying.

The only things we can be sure about are Pro Wrestling being passed over for real-life likeness reasons, and Ken Sugimori artwork ownership preventing human Pokémon characters from having spirits.

Generally speaking, third party companies will only use artwork related to a character that got in (even as an AT, if the extra Fatal Frame spirit is any indication), so it's a given that other series owned by said company would not be taken into consideration except as ATs, Mii costume possibilities or assorted cameos.

They can clearly add new spirits, but for some reason, unless there's a DLC character coming, they don't add any, except for when a recent game gets acknowledged (e.g. the Link's Awakening remake).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I really hope that Geno is among the last few third party characters. There are now more 3rd parties than there were 1st parties in Smash 64, and I'd like to return to a focus on Nintendo characters. I think once it starts adding indie fighters the game has completely lost the plot

Smash has been moved on from the purely Nintendo focus for more of its history then not at this point, and would have been even longer if not for Melee coming out so soon after the original. And it hasn’t abandoned the Nintendo focus at any point ever (I mean the list of big name first party characters is getting real small these days anyway).

Third parties make the game a hell of a lot more interesting and impressive, and bring in all kinds of fandoms and attract major attention. Smash regressing would be the most awful scenario honestly because the series is so much better for all of the third party crossover work.

And honestly, more third party stuff in Smash helps Geno a ton. If you reduce the third parties in Smash, Geno becomes a lot harder to justify, especially if there’s only “one spot” for a Square Enix character in such a reduction. Mostly because I think Geno will lose to Cloud every time in such a scenario. As such, we should just continue embracing third parties honestly. They add more to the game and continue to cement the franchise as the biggest in gaming.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Weird is definitely right. You can expect Adeleine and Ribbon to be ignored, but not every single paint-based Kirby character, including Paint Roller (although Elline is kinda art-based). You have ROB getting spirits from flipping photographs, yet nothing for Professor Hector. Mario Golf has a spirit, but not for the fan-favorite Plum, who did get a trophy in the Melee days. The Ice Climbers don't have any of their artwork used at all, but still get sprites used for spirits. There's a spirit for Tiny Kong's younger version, but all her teen illustrations are missing for no reason. Sylux goes without saying.

The only things we can be sure about are Pro Wrestling being passed over for real-life likeness reasons, and Ken Sugimori artwork ownership preventing human Pokémon characters from having spirits.

Generally speaking, third party companies will only use artwork related to a character that got in (even as an AT, if the extra Fatal Frame spirit is any indication), so it's a given that other series owned by said company would not be taken into consideration except as Mii costume possibilities or assorted cameos.

Isn't Fatal Frame owned partially by Nintendo?

But yeah, makes sense for 3rd parties. While a few others did get extra stuff)Shantae), it was a matter of licensing. I mean, licensing Frogger requires a lot more to do than using someone you already licensed, which can make it significantly cheaper. So it's just their hands being tied.

Nonetheless, indeed. His team just didn't think like we did, so I don't consider a lack of a Spirit to mean much.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Isn't Fatal Frame owned partially by Nintendo?

But yeah, makes sense for 3rd parties. While a few others did get extra stuff)Shantae), it was a matter of licensing. I mean, licensing Frogger requires a lot more to do than using someone you already licensed, which can make it significantly cheaper. So it's just their hands being tied.

Nonetheless, indeed. His team just didn't think like we did, so I don't consider a lack of a Spirit to mean much.

Pretty sure it'd be only for the latest FF entries, I dunno, but Koei Tecmo is friendly with Nintendo regardless.

I just wish the WOL slot rumors amount to something so that'd we have a clearer picture on things, this spirit nonsense has made most people think "third parties, third parties everywhere" while dismissing possible first party underdog victories at this point.

 

[Vector Victor]

Isn't Fatal Frame owned partially by Nintendo?

But yeah, makes sense for 3rd parties. While a few others did get extra stuff)Shantae), it was a matter of licensing. I mean, licensing Frogger requires a lot more to do than using someone you already licensed, which can make it significantly cheaper. So it's just their hands being tied.

Nonetheless, indeed. His team just didn't think like we did, so I don't consider a lack of a Spirit to mean much.

Still, Porky is a major character of the series and one of the VERY few to make it as a boss in Brawl. So to just drop him completely is just weird, especially since Buzz Buzz of all characters gets a spirit. That's like having President Shinra as a spirit but skipping Sephiroth completely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Still, Porky is a major character of the series and one of the VERY few to make it as a boss in Brawl. So to just drop him completely is just weird, especially since Buzz Buzz of all characters gets a spirit. That's like having President Shinra as a spirit but skipping Sephiroth completely.

The problem is it wasn't just Sakurai doing Spirits. His team was. It might've not been weird to them, as they had the ASC meant to represent him for all we know.

There was only some Metroid hunters. If it just had Sylux missing, who at least is supposedly being in a later game they can promote(Spirit or Playable), it'd make sense. But they still "effectively" have the character. So it's not as odd as people are making it. There's no consistency on what's important with the Spirits, so I wouldn't put much stock into it at this point.

 

[ShotoStar 2]

Spoiler

After this discovery our very own PapaGenos has made a video about the Music thing just to inform you all! I wonder how far this entire speculation will go now that it's likely going to blow up.

 

[AugustusB]

https://www.gamesoundcon.com/single...g-Facts-About-Composing-Music-for-Video-Games OK I think I found something. Now I know this is the US, but I think it can help explain some things. The big takeaway from this is a quote I found to be pretty enlightening.

-With very rare exceptions, a composer contracted to write music for a video game will sign away all rights, including publishing, to the game developer or publisher.-
This is under the "WORK FOR HIRE" Fact.

I hope this can help in figuring this whole who owns what debacle. So now the BIG question is...Did the Music go to the publisher (Nintendo) or did it go to the developer (Squaresoft).

This is the next thing to figure out.

Bringing this back because how did I not see this. One of the last points is this:
A surprising number of jobs composing video game music are full-time, ‘in-house’ employee positions.
One of the examples they use is Blizzard. And they absolutely own the music for their games. Of course, Blizzard has said you can use their stuff for home purposes but they do label that "Music" is "Blizzard Content"

Again, US rules may not be the same as Japan or wherever, but Yoko worked for Square back in the day as an Employee.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The problem is it wasn't just Sakurai doing Spirits. His team was. It might've not been weird to them, as they had the ASC meant to represent him for all we know.

There was only some Metroid hunters. If it just had Sylux missing, who at least is supposedly being in a later game they can promote(Spirit or Playable), it'd make sense. But they still "effectively" have the character. So it's not as odd as people are making it. There's no consistency on what's important with the Spirits, so I wouldn't put much stock into it at this point.

Which is what makes "spirits deconfirm" all the more nonsensical. If they were ATs or background characters, I could buy it, but they're all images that only impact how a puppet fighter will behave in WOL, and even then some only show up on the spirit board.

A character's image doesn't suddenly decrease their likelihood, yet it does for some people. It's a given that most wouldn't be playable later down the line, but assuming that all of them aren't is just plain silly.

Sure, some will bring up "b-but every DLC character comes with a spirit board!", but as of right now that only concerns the current fighter pass.

 

[Dan]

OK this is pretty neat.
It just fits too well...what could have been.

That has always fascinated me because it's fan-made, but most people are under the impression it's a cut track from the game.

 

[GenoFlash]

Porky does have a Spirit.

Spoiler

He's in the Absolutely Safe Capsule.

 

[AugustusB]

Spoiler

After this discovery our very own PapaGenos has made a video about the Music thing just to inform you all! I wonder how far this entire speculation will go now that it's likely going to blow up.

Dang, it was nice to see all the other stuff I had forgotten about! I forgot about the Megasmilax quote.

Could Nintendo have shadow bought the rights to SMRPG? Or maybe Square is just loosening its grip a bit? This is still weird, gang.

EDIT: Lowkey, it was kind of surreal to see my quote in a video (Even though it was in Slender 's post lol)