Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Umm, didn't brawlBRSTMs3 a little while ago say that he would start going through and deleting all Nintendo related stuff off his channel, due to Nintendo?

We sure this isn't related to this?

Nintendo doesn't own SMRPG's music. It's not considered Nintendo music.

 

[TheCJBrine]

So, I'm going to address two things here that I really don't understand people's views on, and I'm more than open to response to explain the other side. This is one of the big posts I mentioned earlier.

EDIT: Fun Fact ~ This part was written before the reveal of the Switch Lite. Freaky how I had this ready the day before the announcement, I must be onto something here...

Spoiler: 1. How in the heck do people think more DLC for Smash isn't likely?

Listen, I get it: Nintendo doesn't always do the obvious like other companies, but they already have done it for Smash with the Fighter's Pass. For the life of me, I can't think of a time Nintendo was involved in a season pass. Maybe there was one for BotW, but as far as I know it has all been individual DLC that was individually priced. This is something that a Western company would do for a game that doesn't even fit the bill for such a thing just because they are greedy, yet here is Nintendo pulling the same tactic?

We may have our few issues with Nintendo, but it's a fact that they often deliver more fun and uniqueness and things we like more often than most other AAA companies. So them doing a Season Pass for a game is pretty crazy, right? And so far, the pass has been pretty much just characters everyone has wanted in one way or another without it feeling like fans had no say in the matter. When you consider people like myself exists that 'have to have all of everything' on top of fans going crazy over these amazing picks, both the FP and the single packs are going to sell extremely well.

When you factor that in with the VERY unfortunate truth that Sakurai is a slave to his own works and his stance on quality, then you know that if Nintendo says DLC Sakurai will say 'Sigh...how many this time, boss?' Remember, Sakurai doesn't think DLC is a practical practice and he really disliked not letting us know what we were getting while also asking us to buy it, but it still happened anyway. Nintendo has essentially had Sakurai by the creativity balls since Brawl and Sakurai is too attached to be able to just let it go, so I really don't see how anyone can think we will get no more DLC. I mean, if the next console was coming out soon like Wii U to Switch was, then I could understand, but the Switch it still very much in it's early life cycle. I mean, we don't even have a alternate version of the Switch yet!

Spoiler: 2. Why are people wishing for Indie Reps in Smash?

This one will likely get a lot of flak, but I need you guys to understand my position.

First off, out of all the characters you choose to support for Smash, you pick someone who isn't a character tied to a AAA dev or company. I get that Smash is a celebration of gaming history and that indie games are a big deal, but most indie games don't reach the levels that a very few number have. It's becoming more of a thing nowadays with unique games being made by indie devs that are really good and AAA companies and devs pushing out garbage, but they still fail to compare to what most AAA companies make in terms of being very popular for long periods of time. Most of them are really big for a couple months and peter out and become legends of YouTube 15 minutes of fame past.

There are exceptions, of course, but these aren't the rule: most indie games STAY at indie levels of popularity. Then you have the exceptions like FNAF, Undertale, Cave Story and AHIT that explode and still have people talking about how much they love them. The idea of indies, though, is that they are very different from big AAA content: you are more likely to get something unique or made in a certain style, but it will usually be filled with nuance and not have as long of a life cycle. This is why I don't understand the idea of wanting an indie rep in Smash: an indie rep as a playable fighter would take away from the aspect of being indie, taking a bit of that essence away. Sure, it would be huge for an indie character to be playable, but is it worth the cost of losing that special feel that indies have? This is often why when an indie game gets popular you will have a growing group of people who will be against the game because 'the normies got to it': the spirit of an indie game is that it stays relatively contained in it's own sphere and doesn't 'go big'.

Wouldn't it be better to have an indie Smash-alike or an indie fighting game that has these characters, like Rivals of Aether, BrawlOut, Brawlhalla, Indie Pogo, Blade Stranger and etc? Wouldn't it be better to have that indie spirit live on via indie means? I don't know, this is just something that always bugged me.

The other part is, who the hell do you pick? Everyone has their favorite, but much like Cloud represents all of Final Fantasy and The Hero is a singular character that has many faces, you could only pick one indie rep to represent all indies in the best scenario...and frankly that wouldn't fly at all. Having Quote would piss off Undertale fans, and having Frisk or Sans would piss off FNAF fans, and somehow getting in Freddy would piss off Celeste fans...and any of them getting in when Shovel Knight is an AT would piss off Shovel Knight fans. Even so, there is no way we can have multiple indie reps, and here is the last problem: the wanted post for Smash.

There are too many character that have been on the Most Wanted List for much MUCH longer. Imagine how you would feel if Celeste got in before Geno! Imagine how B&K fans would feel if Freddy got in before that dynamic duo? Frankly, I would be absolutely furious: not only did you pick an indie character that has existed far less than the character I want, forget being requested for far less time, you also just made the decision to divide the indie fanbases' reception to your game AND distanced yourself from your core Smash fanbase. To me, it would feel close to the likes of a cash grab, like how other forms of media cater to those outside their audience to get more of an audience at the expense of their core audience.

To me, it would just seem better to stay away from indies all together. Let them do their thing, and Smash does theirs! By the time this wild ride is over, there will be plenty of characters left on the list to choose from for the next game, I'm sure.

Also, about this music thing, there are this guy with a Spanish channel name. 31 Horas Music, I believe. They had a bunch of fan-made themes. They even had a Geno one, a cool remix of BOTFM. That got taken down, but the Banjo one never did...

EDIT: This is the original remix made by MaxOKE.

However, the one that 31 Horas Music had with the Smashified Geno picture got taken down.

Add this in with all the small little nods to Geno and SMRPG we've had over the past couple years and this seems very interesting...

Addressing the indies:

I don’t see an indie character being chosen to represent indies, just their own game(s). They’re videogames just like every other videogame, and are only “indies” because they’re not made or sold by a huge company, which is also probably the only reason why Nintendo groups them together in a single Direct in the first place, so that the small teams don’t get overshadowed (except for Undertale which is big enough to get in the main directs I guess). I see them as legitimate picks, and Shovel Knight has been added as an AT + some Spirits, with Shantae and Risky Boots as Spirits too. I really don’t see why people would care about them being “indie” specifically and not just see the characters and games as how they are on their own.


Also, if the video being claimed before release means anything, that would be hype.

I’d also like to point out that the claims on the Final Battle and BtFM videos by 31 Horas also happened to a Megalovania Smash remix video; I think it was on Crunchii’s channel, but yes it was also claimed on its own shortly before his entire channel got terminated, just like 31 Horas. I don’t really think it means anything, though.

Something I've considered is how Nintendo of America renewed the Banjo Kazooie trademark last October, providing an example of when Nintendo has been involved in the copyright of a third party IP. After the Fall of the Grinch, everyone just sort of forgot this despite it being incredibly suspicious. Yeah, hindsight is 20-20 but it really did wind up being an "Oh?!" moment in the end.

Nintendo was only listed under the owner history of the trademark, with Rare seeming to be the most recent, so I’m not sure.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

And another thing, if Square Enix is the copyright holder to the Super Mario RPG music, wouldn’t they still have to submit the claim assuming it actually means something? Nintendo wouldn’t have any legal way to approach this even if they were developing Geno and including Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms...

Not to mention, why would they copyright claim it in the first place when they’re making content under the same assumption? There’s no tangible benefit or reason for it at all to just flag one video.

 

[Firox]

I don’t really see the dots to connect in the first place and there’s just nothing here right now to work with. Why that one? Well, YouTube bull****... the wrong intern was submitting copyright claims... etc. again, I don’t even know why this is worth our time when it’s an isolated incident of two videos being removed, and not even of the same song.

Apparently, you don't. Given your level of skepticism, there isn't really a point in me providing further sources since there's a 99% chance you'll just reject them anyway.

You’re saying this is something, I’m saying it’s nothing.

Believe what you want. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Apparently, you don't. Given your level of skepticism, there isn't really a point in me providing further sources since there's a 99% chance you'll just reject them anyway.



Believe what you want. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I’m mostly just asking for the one source on who owns Super Mario RPG’s music rights. That’s something I think that’s worth clearing up at the very least. I’m more than willing to accept validated sources on a subject like that and it would help everyone in the consideration of this theory too.

And really anyone who can find information on that specific point, I’d genuinely love to see and understand that as a point for understanding Super Mario RPG better.

 

[Fatmanonice]

People were asking why only that channel was targeted and it probably has to do with how many views each video had. Beware the Forest's Mushrooms had over a million and Fight Against an Armed Boss had slightly less than a million, making them by far the most popular non remixes of the tunes on YouTube.

 

[AugustusB]

https://www.discogs.com/Yoko-Shimom...io-RPG-Original-Sound-Version/release/2031472
Slowing trying to find the holders of the soundtrack. NTT Publishing is the company that has label over it. Interestingly enough, this same publisher https://www.discogs.com/label/26685-NTT-Publishing has done A LOT of labeling for Square. I do believe Nobuo owns all his music, but I do not know about Yoko. I am trying to figure this out as we speak, but it is hard to find this copyright stuff, man!

EDIT: Koji Kondo did some tracks as well. So obviously, those tracks MAY have been saved by Nintendo. Still uncertain about Yoko's contribution.

 

[Musubi]

If the taken down videos do actually mean evidence of current plans for Geno but he ends up not getting into ultimate dlc, could it instead hint for a remake of SMRPG?

 

[SleuthMechanism]

One thing I just have to say is, massive respect for you guys sticking to this character for so long. I got all i wanted after Banjo came out(completing the big trifecta of ridley, k.rool, and banjo for me) but I think it'd honestly be such an amazing end if the last DLC character was Geno, the very last long-standing "never ever" character for the fans.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms was definitely by Yoko; an orchestral arrangement is in the Memoria! album.

I’m wondering if a remix of “Goodbye Geno” would be used as Geno’s theme in Smash, though.

 

[AugustusB]

Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms was definitely by Yoko; an orchestral arrangement is in the Memoria! album.

I’m wondering if a remix of “Goodbye Geno” would be used as Geno’s theme in Smash, though.

Lol but of course! I am trying to figure out if Yoko owns her music or Square owns her music for SMRPG. I'd imagine Koji's is owned by Nintendo while Yoko's and (maybe) Nobou's tracks are owned by Square. Still do not have Solid evidence yet. It would make sense, but I think I am phoning in for the night. Keep on keeping on Geno Gang!

EDIT: I would love a rocking remix of that track! Could you imagine it sounding more uplifting and adrenaline pumping?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Lol but of course! I am trying to figure out if Yoko owns her music or Square owns her music for SMRPG. I'd imagine Koji's is owned by Nintendo while Yoko's and (maybe) Nobou's tracks are owned by Square. Still do not have Solid evidence yet. It would make sense, but I think I am phoning in for the night. Keep on keeping on Geno Gang!

EDIT: I would love a rocking remix of that track! Could you imagine it sounding more uplifting and adrenaline pumping?

Oh, okay. Yeah I imagine the same, if Square doesn’t own all the original songs like they do the characters for some reason.

I think Goodbye Geno could be made more uplifting, with part of it being slower and calmer like some Animal Crossing or Pikmin tracks, or a few of the Mother tracks. I think it’d sound nice. I also wonder if they’d make it like a “Goodbye Geno / Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms” track, similar to that rock remix that had Goodbye Geno’s intro.

 

[ColtonS25]

Just on the topic of “Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms”, I have to say that it’s one of the most iconic and wonderful pieces of video game music ever in my opinion. It just has a mysterious vibe that meshes so darn well with Geno’s character. It’s got that whimsical feel that fits the whole “chasing a spirit-possessed wooden doll through a forest” idea.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Considering Yoko's been able to use various SMRPG tunes on her independent remix albums (namely Goodbye Geno and Beware the Forest's Mushrooms), it's likely that she has the rights to SMRPG's soundtrack (or at least the original tunes), much like Nobuo Uematsu owns the soundtrack to FF7. I thought we already knew this.

 

[Slender]

https://www.discogs.com/Yoko-Shimom...io-RPG-Original-Sound-Version/release/2031472
Slowing trying to find the holders of the soundtrack. NTT Publishing is the company that has label over it. Interestingly enough, this same publisher https://www.discogs.com/label/26685-NTT-Publishing has done A LOT of labeling for Square. I do believe Nobuo owns all his music, but I do not know about Yoko. I am trying to figure this out as we speak, but it is hard to find this copyright stuff, man!

EDIT: Koji Kondo did some tracks as well. So obviously, those tracks MAY have been saved by Nintendo. Still uncertain about Yoko's contribution.

This actually got me searching, and I came across something extremely odd.
Koji Kondo did in fact make a handful of tracks for Super Mario RPG, but which ones he did is super interesting. Every track in Super Mario RPG by Koji Kondo was a remix/remaster of a previous Mario series tunes, or included pieces of said tunes.

Super Mario Bros. Ground
Let's Try
In The Flower Garden
Super Pipe House
Let's Play 'Geno'
Long Long Ago...
The Axem Rangers Drop In
The End!

Super Mario Bros. Underground
From Inside the Earthen Pipe

Super Mario Bros. Invincible
Invincible Star

Super Mario Bros. 3 Spade Puzzle
Heart Beating a Little Faster

Super Mario Bros. 3 King Koopa Battle
Fight Against Koopa

The only outlier that I know of is Koopa Castle (Second Time), but oddly enough, it was actually used after it's creation in a Nintendo game once again, as part of Bowser's Magma Mountain in Mario Party. It seems that Kondo was responsible for the preexisting tracks, and therefore Nintendo would have the rights to this specific music. Everything that was original was left to Yoko Shimomura, which would make me come to the conclusion that those tracks, as well as the three FinalFantasyButNotQuite tracks would be Square's property. This is a truly confusing custody battle for this game, and it's made even more interesting when you take a look back at the original SMRPG tweet put out by Nintendo of America. Even though they most likely had permission to use the rights to Super Mario RPG due to the recent release of the game on the SNES Classic, it's still peculiar to see that the tweet used the intro with Square music attached instead of simple gameplay with the presumably owned Nintendo music already in-hand.

 

[Mariobro_]

hey! haven't checked smashboards in a good while but after hearing about what's happened with this soundtrack stuff, i wanted to mention my thoughts here. it seems weird to me that Nintendo would go after just two Mario RPG songs and not like, the entire uploaded playlist? i thought maybe they just looked at BrawlBRST's most popular uploads and went for those first as part of the crackdown they were doing on that channel, but that's apparently not the only channel that had Mario RPG songs taken down, so now i don't know what to think.
i could see them adding a couple of songs from the game to Ultimate if they added some Mario RPG spirits alongside Hero when that character releases, but then at the same time, if they were gonna do that, why not just have the songs in from the start to go with the Geno & Mallow spirits?
it's a really odd situation. they wouldn't just add two new songs to the game for some mii costumes that were added, so i feel like this whole thing either means nothing or it means Geno has more of a chance than we might've thought.

i'm not holding my breath for Geno or anything - i'll believe it when i see it, basically - but i'm definitely gonna be keeping this in the back of my mind

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

 

[SSGuy]

It's done.

 

[Ovaltine]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

I'll answer later when I am not mobile bound, but just saying, nice to see you pop up in the Geno thread, Nate!

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I'll answer later when I am not mobile bound, but just saying, nice to see you pop up in the Geno thread, Nate!

Nice to see you here too!

 

[Vector Victor]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

Donuts.


He would be a gunner long range character which is so few in Smash as well as an easy to create moveset that would represent his home game abilities.

And he has a blue cape. I mean, come on. Blue.

 

[Freduardo]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

Actually one of the same things that many characters in ultimate have brought: A feeling of fruition.

After being cut from Brawl and a mii costume in four, you just feel like the character has further to progress in the series.

And admittedly they did have one of the more memorable and difficult spirit battles in world of light... but you want there to be another step.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Actually one of the same things that many characters in ultimate have brought: A feeling of fruition.

After being cut from Brawl and a mii costume in four, you just feel like the character has further to progress in the series.

And admittedly they did have one of the more memorable and difficult spirit battles in world of light... but you want there to be another step.

I actually was referring to gameplay.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm back guys! So can anybody give me the lowdown on what has been going here for the past month?

 

[Freduardo]

I actually was referring to gameplay.

Yeah but like seven people have answered that. A gunner character that would still be a very unique gunner character.

Plus if you want to go that extra DLC mile, one of the coolest things Mario RPG really introduced was the timed attacks system (I think the Mario and Luigi series perfected it, many like paper mario; and there have been scores of other imitators, like the awesome steven universe games); so you can make Geno’s B moves do max damage if you hit the button again with the right timing on contact for some of them to celebrate that innovation.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Yeah but like seven people have answered that. A gunner character that would still be a very unique gunner character.

I was asking because I wanted to see what different people thought. Only one other person had responded.

 

[Freduardo]

I was asking because I wanted to see what different people thought. Only one other person had responded.

Fair. More will.

And the thread is full of in depth analyses and movesets.

Random thought after using Geno to credit just how damn good mario rpg is, it was the first rpg I remember where I could change party members anywhere on the map, not just save points. So they could make me overjoyed and make it so he can swap with Mallow at any time as the playable character.

This will not happen and no one would support it. But I liked Mallow and pokemon trainer is back.

 

[Ovaltine]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

Awright, here we go!

First of all, I'm actually of the unpopular opinion that I think Geno should return to the Mario series before getting into Smash. My boy needs to come home. Not only that, but I also think that it'd add even more options for a Smash move set, especially with the potential he has. As for that potential...

Yeah, his SMRPG move set alone is already a nice basis for a Smash move set. Boost, Whirl, Blast, Flash, and Beam are a well-rounded set of specials, plus a Final Smash. That's usually a big thing I see people noting is how well his in-game abilities line up for Smash specials. However, I personally like to look a little deeper than that. Let's examine his abilities:

- He's able to shoot his hands from his body as rocket fists. He's able to detach his limbs and use rocket appendages. That is what we can gather from this.
- He has the ability to use support moves like a proper mage, as seen in Geno Boost. Use of effects is something to take into account with him.
- He can use magic for all sorts of cosmic attacks, as seen in Geno Blast (making stars rain from the sky) and Geno Whirl (using star energy to throw chakrams).
- The gunner bit is already touched on and pretty obvious.
- He can transform his body in ways that frankly... does not seem possible for a doll like the star spirit possesses, as seen in Geno Flash. He turns into a freaking cannon. What on Earth?!

It has a strong basis for creative liberties to be taken and go into all sorts of territory. What other kinds of weaponry can be installed into Geno's arsenal? Either physical appendages or star energy-formed items can be taken to all sorts of heights. What if he could fling his wrists on chains like whips? What if he could use star magic to make cosmic, bladed tonfa? What kind of RPG status ailments or stat boosts can be utilized with an upgraded or tweaked Geno Boost? What if he could utilize elemental guns or weapons with installed armory (flamethrowers, earth-based magic, etc.)? What if he could make staves out of star energy for magical purposes (taking a bit of inspiration from Black Mage)? What if he used abilities more celestial that referenced the use of cosmic entities like black holes or supernovas? What if he had rockets installed in his feet? What if he could deploy Zeostars and Starslaps a la Star Eggs? What if he could transform into some other crazy stuff like a freaking tank or a ballista or a massive drill? What if he could Star Spin a la Mario Galaxy?

That's how I see his move set potential. People like to see what he's capable of on surface level, and that's fine, but I like to think beyond that. Considering his versatility and the option of installing more weapons into the doll, Geno's move set potential is ridiculous. Being a magic-based gunner is something Smash doesn't have (closest being Mega Man, and even he isn't quite that), and to couple with that, Mario lore and different ideas can be used to make Geno's kit that much more varied. Couple that with the possibility of using SMRPG's infamous timed hits, and we've got potential for a very unique gunner-type.

Plus, he's cute. Look at that face. Look at that face.

 

[ShotoStar 2]

So, I never really understood what made Geno different from other potential Smash newcomers, so I'm kinda curious. Why Geno of all characters? What would he be able to bring to Smash?

Well for what he could bring to Smash I still think the Legacy XP version of the character is still the best Moveset I've seen so far:

Spoiler

but I could see Sakurai taking a different route with the character and focusing more on the doll side of him.

Since Geno is a doll he isn't limited to what normal humans could or couldn't do, Geno could shoot out his limbs or detach his limbs for his Jabs or Smash attacks, He could turn into a cannon for his recovery and we don't even know if he could turn into other things such as a tank or other machinery/weaponry if Sakurai wanted to take creative liberties with the character he could transform into multiple things. Geno could also shoot multiple forms of blasts and bullets so he could be a long ranged character and again if he wanted to take creative liberties Geno could potentially shoot out even things like fire like a flamethrower or other such things.

He could basically be a human weapon with all sorts of firepower coming out of anywhere and everywhere from his mouth to his arms, elbows, hands, knees, legs, feet, any limb and everywhere else. Not to mention he could detach his limbs and body to extend some of his jabs or Smash attacks.

He could be a mix of a long ranged fighter with some melee attacks and if they wanted to incorporate the Timed Hit mechanic his special attacks could be powered up or stronger if you time them correctly, Though I don't see Sakurai making every attack of his a timed hit thing just his specials.

So yeah a mix of a long ranged and melee fighter with a timed hit mechanic. Also good to see you in the thread buddy!

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Awright, here we go!

First of all, I'm actually of the unpopular opinion that I think Geno should return to the Mario series before getting into Smash. My boy needs to come home. Not only that, but I also think that it'd add even more options for a Smash move set, especially with the potential he has. As for that potential...

Yeah, his SMRPG move set alone is already a nice basis for a Smash move set. Boost, Whirl, Blast, Flash, and Beam are a well-rounded set of specials, plus a Final Smash. That's usually a big thing I see people noting is how well his in-game abilities line up for Smash specials. However, I personally like to look a little deeper than that. Let's examine his abilities:

- He's able to shoot his hands from his body as rocket fists. He's able to detach his limbs and use rocket appendages. That is what we can gather from this.
- He has the ability to use support moves like a proper mage, as seen in Geno Boost. Use of effects is something to take into account with him.
- He can use magic for all sorts of cosmic attacks, as seen in Geno Blast (making stars rain from the sky) and Geno Whirl (using star energy to throw chakrams).
- The gunner bit is already touched on and pretty obvious.
- He can transform his body in ways that frankly... does not seem possible for a doll like the star spirit possesses, as seen in Geno Flash. He turns into a freaking cannon. What on Earth?!

It has a strong basis for creative liberties to be taken and go into all sorts of territory. What other kinds of weaponry can be installed into Geno's arsenal? Either physical appendages or star energy-formed items can be taken to all sorts of heights. What if he could fling his wrists on chains like whips? What if he could use star magic to make cosmic, bladed tonfa? What kind of RPG status ailments or stat boosts can be utilized with an upgraded or tweaked Geno Boost? What if he could utilize elemental guns or weapons with installed armory (flamethrowers, earth-based magic, etc.)? What if he could make staves out of star energy for magical purposes (taking a bit of inspiration from Black Mage)? What if he used abilities more celestial that referenced the use of cosmic entities like black holes or supernovas? What if he had rockets installed in his feet? What if he could deploy Zeostars and Starslaps a la Star Eggs? What if he could transform into some other crazy stuff like a freaking tank or a ballista or a massive drill? What if he could Star Spin a la Mario Galaxy?

That's how I see his move set potential. People like to see what he's capable of on surface level, and that's fine, but I like to think beyond that. Considering his versatility and the option of installing more weapons into the doll, Geno's move set potential is ridiculous. Being a magic-based gunner is something Smash doesn't have (closest being Mega Man, and even he isn't quite that), and to couple with that, Mario lore and different ideas can be used to make Geno's kit that much more varied. Couple that with the possibility of using SMRPG's infamous timed hits, and we've got potential for a very unique gunner-type.

Plus, he's cute. Look at that face. Look at that face.

Well for what he could bring to Smash I still think the Legacy XP version of the character is still the best Moveset I've seen so far:

Spoiler

but I could see Sakurai taking a different route with the character and focusing more on the doll side of him.

Since Geno is a doll he isn't limited to what normal humans could or couldn't do, Geno could shoot out his limbs or detach his limbs for his Jabs or Smash attacks, He could turn into a cannon for his recovery and we don't even know if he could turn into other things such as a tank or other machinery/weaponry if Sakurai wanted to take creative liberties with the character he could transform into multiple things. Geno could also shoot multiple forms of blasts and bullets so he could be a long ranged character and again if he wanted to take creative liberties Geno could potentially shoot out even things like fire like a flamethrower or other such things.

He could basically be a human weapon with all sorts of firepower coming out of anywhere and everywhere from his mouth to his arms, elbows, hands, knees, legs, feet, any limb and everywhere else. Not to mention he could detach his limbs and body to extend some of his jabs or Smash attacks.

He could be a mix of a long ranged fighter with some melee attacks and if they wanted to incorporate the Timed Hit mechanic his special attacks could be powered up or stronger if you time them correctly, Though I don't see Sakurai making every attack of his a timed hit thing just his specials.

So yeah a mix of a long ranged and melee fighter with a timed hit mechanic. Also good to see you in the thread buddy!

Interesting!

Honestly I only know a little bit about Geno, hence why I came here. I never really got why he was so popular. With moveset potential like that, though, I can see why. I should get around to playing SMRPG sometime...

 

[Freduardo]

Awright, here we go!

First of all, I'm actually of the unpopular opinion that I think Geno should return to the Mario series before getting into Smash. My boy needs to come home. Not only that, but I also think that it'd add even more options for a Smash move set, especially with the potential he has. As for that potential...

Yeah, his SMRPG move set alone is already a nice basis for a Smash move set. Boost, Whirl, Blast, Flash, and Beam are a well-rounded set of specials, plus a Final Smash. That's usually a big thing I see people noting is how well his in-game abilities line up for Smash specials. However, I personally like to look a little deeper than that. Let's examine his abilities:

- He's able to shoot his hands from his body as rocket fists. He's able to detach his limbs and use rocket appendages. That is what we can gather from this.
- He has the ability to use support moves like a proper mage, as seen in Geno Boost. Use of effects is something to take into account with him.
- He can use magic for all sorts of cosmic attacks, as seen in Geno Blast (making stars rain from the sky) and Geno Whirl (using star energy to throw chakrams).
- The gunner bit is already touched on and pretty obvious.
- He can transform his body in ways that frankly... does not seem possible for a doll like the star spirit possesses, as seen in Geno Flash. He turns into a freaking cannon. What on Earth?!

It has a strong basis for creative liberties to be taken and go into all sorts of territory. What other kinds of weaponry can be installed into Geno's arsenal? Either physical appendages or star energy-formed items can be taken to all sorts of heights. What if he could fling his wrists on chains like whips? What if he could use star magic to make cosmic, bladed tonfa? What kind of RPG status ailments or stat boosts can be utilized with an upgraded or tweaked Geno Boost? What if he could utilize elemental guns or weapons with installed armory (flamethrowers, earth-based magic, etc.)? What if he could make staves out of star energy for magical purposes (taking a bit of inspiration from Black Mage)? What if he used abilities more celestial that referenced the use of cosmic entities like black holes or supernovas? What if he had rockets installed in his feet? What if he could deploy Zeostars and Starslaps a la Star Eggs? What if he could transform into some other crazy stuff like a freaking tank or a ballista or a massive drill? What if he could Star Spin a la Mario Galaxy?

That's how I see his move set potential. People like to see what he's capable of on surface level, and that's fine, but I like to think beyond that. Considering his versatility and the option of installing more weapons into the doll, Geno's move set potential is ridiculous. Being a magic-based gunner is something Smash doesn't have (closest being Mega Man, and even he isn't quite that), and to couple with that, Mario lore and different ideas can be used to make Geno's kit that much more varied. Couple that with the possibility of using SMRPG's infamous timed hits, and we've got potential for a very unique gunner-type.

Plus, he's cute. Look at that face. Look at that face.

Geno back in the mario series you say? Now that has me curious.

How do you differentiate him him in the most traditional mario game? A 2D mario?

Easy way would be custom power ups, but no character really needs this. An idea I have would be to have custom effects from power ups. Like not only does a star make him invincible, while he’s got that, he can pretty much fly around super sonic style.

Could go full easy mode with him that way. Give him a natural (weaker) projectile that goes a short distance, and if he picks up a fire flower make it double the size of a normal fireball.

Granted rosalina has not entered 2d mario in any form as playable yet and she could pretty much be justified to do the same.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Geno back in the mario series you say? Now that has me curious.

How do you differentiate him him in the most traditional mario game? A 2D mario?

Easy way would be custom power ups, but no character really needs this. An idea I have would be to have custom effects from power ups. Like not only does a star make him invincible, while he’s got that, he can pretty much fly around super sonic style.

Could go full easy mode with him that way. Give him a natural (weaker) projectile that goes a short distance, and if he picks up a fire flower make it double the size of a normal fireball.

Granted rosalina has not entered 2d mario in any form as playable yet and she could pretty much be justified to do the same.

Honestly I’m not betting on Geno’s inclusion in a new Mario game, considering how Square handles their properties.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Granted rosalina has not entered 2d mario in any form as playable yet and she could pretty much be justified to do the same.

I'm pretty sure Rosalina got a costume in Super Mario Maker 1, so that's not entirely true. Also, isn't she in Super Mario Run, one of the main series Mario games?

 

[ShotoStar 2]

Honestly I’m not betting on Geno’s inclusion in a new Mario game, considering how Square handles their properties.

Yeah it's not the likeliest of things as I would expect Square to only really want to use Geno on bigger things or things they're already involved in hence Smash and I doubt Nintendo would want to go through the massive hassle that is Square only to use him for one of their smaller titles though I can't deny that I would love for that to indeed happen.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I'm pretty sure Rosalina got a custom in Super Mario Maker 1, so that's not entirely true. Also, isn't she in Super Mario Run, one of the main series Mario games?

Besides Galaxy, I think Rosalina has only appeared in Mario Run, Mario Maker, and 3D World.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Besides Galaxy, I think Rosalina has only appeared in Mario Run, Mario Maker, and 3D World.

Galaxy 2, though far less important to the overall game. That said, I never played Super Mario Run. Other than being a mainline game officially, I don't really know much about the gameplay. Does it even have power-ups?

 

[Majalbatross]

Sorry for my absence from this thread for a long time, Genobros. The grinch fiasco burned me REALLY badly back then, but I have a new little sense of hope for our puppet. I'm still pretty confident he isn't in due to the spirit, however history has proven time and time again that putting rules onto who can and can't be put into Smash usually ends pretty badly. Just look at all the Steve ****posters that were rampant on /v/ before Banjo got revealed.

So, what's new? There's apparently some new evidence?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Galaxy 2, though far less important to the overall game. That said, I never played Super Mario Run. Other than being a mainline game officially, I don't really know much about the gameplay. Does it even have power-ups?

I was accounting for Galaxy 2 when I said that. Should’ve mad that more clear. Also no, I don’t think it does.

 

[ShotoStar 2]

Sorry for my absence from this thread for a long time, Genobros. The grinch fiasco burned me REALLY badly back then, but I have a new little sense of hope for our puppet. I'm still pretty confident he isn't in due to the spirit, however history has proven time and time again that putting rules onto who can and can't be put into Smash usually ends pretty badly. Just look at all the Steve ****posters that were rampant on /v/ before Banjo got revealed.

So, what's new? There's apparently some new evidence?

Welcome back to the Smash Bros show featuring your very own host Geno! Yaaayyy!
So this new thing that's evidence is that two very specific songs from Super Mario RPG got taken down yesterday the weird thing is that it's really only two songs and from one very specific channel as well. Only two songs got taken down not two songs across the board just two and what's even more fascinating was that it was taken down by Nintendo of all people. Does this mean anything? Some people think it has the potential to mean something while some others think the opposite. It's really weird to say the least.

We've made three theories 1) It's for the Geno Mii Costume but they're adding Super Mario RPG Music in/They're bringing back the Geno Mii Costume with a new Mallow one and these two songs, Beware the Forests Mushrooms and Battle against an armed boss will be the songs playing during it. 2) It's nothing. or 3) It's going to end up being Geno in Smash.

Obviously the 1st and the 2nd are far more likelier but we'll just have to wait and see until then here's the essential posts you should read to catch you up on this:

Someone sent a message in a server I'm in regarding some very odd copyrighted videos on YouTube; maybe you guys could help me figure it out.

Right now, there are two SMRPG music tracks on BrawlBRSTMs3 X's SMRPG playlist that have been blocked by copyright by not Square, but Nintendo.

Beware of the Forest's Mushrooms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abDCsQrDLTE
Fight Against an Armed Boss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQl7wDCKXSM

I went to the Wayback Machine in an effort to see when these videos were taken down, and from what I can see BotFM was up at the earliest since May 15th of this year. Armed Boss was also up and running until May 15th at the earliest. That means that these songs, and only these songs were recently taken down by Nintendo. It's definitely an odd case, as the rest of the playlist is still up.

I would like to use these quotes to let you guys know that the date is actually after May 15th; Ze Diglett had replied saying that they had listened to Fight Against an Armed Boss as late as last week, which means this was a very, very recent takedown. May 15 is the latest documented case for it via Wayback, but Ze Diglett and others have mentioned listening to these tracks on this profile on later dates than that.

On top of that, I forgot to mention that I had used this profile to download every track on this playlist, coincidentally 1 day after Wayback shows them up. I can safely tell you all that these tracks were taken down within the last week.

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 231088

This actually got me searching, and I came across something extremely odd.
Koji Kondo did in fact make a handful of tracks for Super Mario RPG, but which ones he did is super interesting. Every track in Super Mario RPG by Koji Kondo was a remix/remaster of a previous Mario series tunes, or included pieces of said tunes.

Super Mario Bros. Ground
Let's Try
In The Flower Garden
Super Pipe House
Let's Play 'Geno'
Long Long Ago...
The Axem Rangers Drop In
The End!

Super Mario Bros. Underground
From Inside the Earthen Pipe

Super Mario Bros. Invincible
Invincible Star

Super Mario Bros. 3 Spade Puzzle
Heart Beating a Little Faster

Super Mario Bros. 3 King Koopa Battle
Fight Against Koopa

The only outlier that I know of is Koopa Castle (Second Time), but oddly enough, it was actually used after it's creation in a Nintendo game once again, as part of Bowser's Magma Mountain in Mario Party. It seems that Kondo was responsible for the preexisting tracks, and therefore Nintendo would have the rights to this specific music. Everything that was original was left to Yoko Shimomura, which would make me come to the conclusion that those tracks, as well as the three FinalFantasyButNotQuite tracks would be Square's property. This is a truly confusing custody battle for this game, and it's made even more interesting when you take a look back at the original SMRPG tweet put out by Nintendo of America. Even though they most likely had permission to use the rights to Super Mario RPG due to the recent release of the game on the SNES Classic, it's still peculiar to see that the tweet used the intro with Square music attached instead of simple gameplay with the presumably owned Nintendo music already in-hand.

 

[AugustusB]

Good morning Genobros! I am rested and ready to go. First thing.

Considering Yoko's been able to use various SMRPG tunes on her independent remix albums (namely Goodbye Geno and Beware the Forest's Mushrooms), it's likely that she has the rights to SMRPG's soundtrack (or at least the original tunes), much like Nobuo Uematsu owns the soundtrack to FF7. I thought we already knew this.

If you are talking about Memoria', I love that album! https://www.discogs.com/Yoko-Shimomura-memória-The-Very-Best-of-Yoko-Shimomura/release/10720376
Interestingly enough, SQUARE labeled that album. It's probably for the other games covered, but still interesting since she is a freelancer currently.

Also welcome Guh-Huzzah! !