Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[SnakeFighter64]

I really want Geno. But at this point I believe the only way he can happen is as a la carte DLC like PP. separate from the season pass.

 

[Ovaltine]

I really want Geno. But at this point I believe the only way he can happen is as a la carte DLC like PP. separate from the season pass.

I agree, I think that'll end up as his best shot: future-planned individual DLC.

Also, FELLOW BANJO-KAZOOIE BUDDY! Welcome (back?) to the thread!

 

[Adelto]

That or another fighter pass, which i wouldn't mind since it would mean 5 other character

 

[Nemuresu]

Did I miss the Spirits debate? Because I still want to throw my two cents into them:
Yes, I think they're a death sentence (no pun intended) to any character they represent. And yes, I do believe they don't operate the same as the old trophies due to the way they've been implemented, not only that, let's go back and look at all DLC characters in the franchise's history: out of all the 11 characters (so far) only two of them had an appearance prior to being included, those being Mewtwo and Lucas. Not a single DLC newcomer was a trophy or a spirit before becoming DLC. And add on to that, there's only two slots in the Pass before it ends, so expecting a spirit to become playable after going through three different newcomers that were completely new to Smash is kind of hard.

Now, is it impossible for Geno, Shantae and all the other spirited folks to appear in this Pass? Absolutely not. My claims are subject to be proven or disproven like others in the past. But so far, it looks really unlikely.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I agree, I think that'll end up as his best shot: future-planned individual DLC.

Also, FELLOW BANJO-KAZOOIE BUDDY! Welcome (back?) to the thread!

I mainly hang out in the social thread. I’m definitely glad Banjo is coming though.

But yeah. I predict that, if we get a second pass, Geno will be the in-between character sold by himself.

 

[Adelto]

Yeah, sadly that seems unlikely for the last two from this fighter pass but maybe we can have him and shantae otherwise

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Yeah, sadly that seems unlikely for the last two from this fighter pass but maybe we can have him and shantae otherwise

I still don’t think Shantae is likely at all. If Shovel Knight has to be a Trophy (the only indie character with an AMIIBO) then no indie darling, however beloved, will make it.

 

[Adelto]

Yeah i think that's already cool that she's in as a spirit but i would wish for more even though she has almost no chance .

 

[EarlTamm]

I still don’t think Shantae is likely at all. If Shovel Knight has to be a Trophy (the only indie character with an AMIIBO) then no indie darling, however beloved, will make it.

The thing about the Shovel Knight Amiibo is that it was all made by Yacht Club. Sure, Nintendo allowed it to be made, but it was all of YC to make them and market them. So I don't think the whole Amiibo thing matters that much.

 

[Adelto]

Yeah but that prove a point why shantae should be playable and not shovel knight?

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah but that prove a point why shantae should be playable and not shovel knight?

She is much older, for most of her history she has consistently been Nintendo centric, is quite popular in both Japan and the West, is from an actual series rather than one game(I know SK has had several expansions, but it was all apart of the same kickstarter), has also had a successful kickstarter, has a brand new game on the way, and in a minor but meta way, the YC founders are former WayForward devs, the company that makes the Shantae games.

Sorry if there was any spelling errors, I am on mobile.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

She is much older, for most of her history she has consistently been Nintendo centric, is quite popular in both Japan and the West, is from an actual series rather than one game(I know SK has had several expansions, but it was all apart of the same kickstarter), has also had a successful kickstarter, has a brand new game on the way, and in a minor but meta way, the YC founders are former WayForward devs, the company that makes the Shantae games.

Sorry if there was any spelling errors, I am on mobile.

I don't know if I'd judge the offerings of Shovel Knight as all belonging to one game like that. Each of the main DLC offerings have easily encompassed their own independent game's worth of content with different mechanics. We're just currently in a day and age where that's a feasible and consumer friendly strategy to expanding your "franchise." It just seems wrong to call Specter of Torment or Plague of Shadows just DLC when they could be (and in some instances have been) released as their own titles. I'd also like to point out Shovel Knight still has a lot of content on the way with King of Cards and Showdown, so I wouldn't really give Shantae any points over Knight in that regard.

I don't have any issues with Shantae, but I don't think she's really got much over Shovel Knight other than the original Shantae came out in 2002. Which was also published by Capcom originally, so her status as an indie rep has always felt slightly off to me even if I don't think it's an issue. Like if you're going for a more specific indie rep, Shovel Knight seems born of that tradition more so. Shantae's just a solid third party pick of her own haha.


Unrelated, but I'm really damn hopeful we will see more DLC for Ultimate... but every time Sakurai mentions DLC, my hopes for that fall further and further. He just doesn't seem the type to support a game indefinitely, even if Ultimate and the Fighter's Pass are massive successes and will continue to be massive successes for the Switch and Nintendo moving forward.

 

[Captain Fun]

Shantae would be really cool but I do think there’s a real smash bubble effect going on with the character and their perceived popularity. She has a fairly big presence in Smash discussion but actual game sales seem low compared to other “big” indies. As for popularity in Japan, none of the mediacreate lists had her chart for long at all.

She was popular enough to get a spirit though, so clearly the devs acknowledge the fanbase.

Side note: the indie rep idea is stupid. You can’t represent something as broad as indie games with one character, nor would Nintendo set arbitrary restrictions like “just one character from a self-published series.”

 

[EarlTamm]

I don't know if I'd judge the offerings of Shovel Knight as all belonging to one game like that. Each of the main DLC offerings have easily encompassed their own independent game's worth of content with different mechanics. We're just currently in a day and age where that's a feasible and consumer friendly strategy to expanding your "franchise." It just seems wrong to call Specter of Torment or Plague of Shadows just DLC when they could be (and in some instances have been) released as their own titles. I'd also like to point out Shovel Knight still has a lot of content on the way with King of Cards and Showdown, so I wouldn't really give Shantae any points over Knight in that regard.

I don't have any issues with Shantae, but I don't think she's really got much over Shovel Knight other than the original Shantae came out in 2002. Which was also published by Capcom originally, so her status as an indie rep has always felt slightly off to me even if I don't think it's an issue. Like if you're going for a more specific indie rep, Shovel Knight seems born of that tradition more so. Shantae's just a solid third party pick of her own haha.


Unrelated, but I'm really damn hopeful we will see more DLC for Ultimate... but every time Sakurai mentions DLC, my hopes for that fall further and further. He just doesn't seem the type to support a game indefinitely, even if Ultimate and the Fighter's Pass are massive successes and will continue to be massive successes for the Switch and Nintendo moving forward.

No doubt. I love the campaigns that have come out of Shovel Knight and am looking forward to King of Cards. I am just not sure if they should be counted as if the Shovel Knight series has four games(Especially in the case of PoS, as that doesn't differentiate nearly as much as SoT does).

Maybe this is just a me thing, but I don't see SK being that popular of a choice anymore as time goes on, especially as new indie darlings like Hollow Knight make themselves known. We know that YC are going to move on to other things after King of Cards for a while(For example, Cyber Shadow), so I doubt that will do good things for his popularity going forward. Meanwhile, Shantae has a new game on the horizon and a consistent presence due to being WayForwards mascot.

I see the whole Capcom things as it's own sort of indie success story. The franchise was pretty much doomed from the start due to poor timing on an outdated handheld, but through the power of independent development and passion rose from the ashes and became an indie success. Not your typical indie origin story, but it still works.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Side note: the indie rep idea is stupid. You can’t represent something as broad as indie games with one character, nor would Nintendo set arbitrary restrictions like “just one character from a self-published series.”

Exactly this. It was annoying sometimes seeing people get mad at Steve or an Undertale character or really any indie (and Minecraft isn't even an indie anymore so what the heck) because they'd "steal Shantae's slot."

Nothing against Shantae, though; I'm a little interested in her and think she could be cool, but to be honest I don't really care whether she's in or not.

 

[cmbsfm]

Shantae would be really cool but I do think there’s a real smash bubble effect going on with the character and their perceived popularity. She has a fairly big presence in Smash discussion but actual game sales seem low compared to other “big” indies. As for popularity in Japan, none of the mediacreate lists had her chart for long at all.

She was popular enough to get a spirit though, so clearly the devs acknowledge the fanbase.

Side note: the indie rep idea is stupid. You can’t represent something as broad as indie games with one character, nor would Nintendo set arbitrary restrictions like “just one character from a self-published series.”

This is what I’ve been saying. I’d never heard the Shantae games discussed outside of Smash. In fact, the ballot was when I first heard about here. It’s incredibly telling when the biggest discussion point to come out of the new game’s trailer is a potential smash hint. I don’t think that type of popularity warrants a playable inclusion at all, since it shows a lack of legacy, which other indies have done a fine job of building.

 

[owjies]

Unrelated, but I'm really damn hopeful we will see more DLC for Ultimate... but every time Sakurai mentions DLC, my hopes for that fall further and further. He just doesn't seem the type to support a game indefinitely, even if Ultimate and the Fighter's Pass are massive successes and will continue to be massive successes for the Switch and Nintendo moving forward.

I hope so too. It’s amazing that with a roster of nearly 80(!!!) characters, there are still so many that would make amazing additions. However, I think the roster size is partially why I’m skeptical of an additional fighters pass. Games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter 5, and Dragonball Fighter Z all had relatively small base rosters by fighting game standards. Multiple waves of DLC made sense because it almost seemed like it was baked into the business model for those games.

Smash, on the other hand, has always had that old school N64-era collectathon mentality where all the content is on cart/disk and part of the game’s novelty is unlocking everything. Part of me loves that about Smash and how much value our initial $60 purchase offers. As a Geno fan though, I say bring on the DLC, all the DLC.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

This is what I’ve been saying. I’d never heard the Shantae games discussed outside of Smash. In fact, the ballot was when I first heard about here. It’s incredibly telling when the biggest discussion point to come out of the new game’s trailer is a potential smash hint. I don’t think that type of popularity warrants a playable inclusion at all, since it shows a lack of legacy, which other indies have done a fine job of building.

I think that Shovel Knight, Shantae, Quote, and Frisk would all make great Smashers. But I don’t know how likely any of them are. Quote maybe, but the rest... idk.

I hope so too. It’s amazing that with a roster of nearly 80(!!!) characters, there are still so many that would make amazing additions. However, I think the roster size is partially why I’m skeptical of an additional fighters pass. Games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter 5, and Dragonball Fighter Z all had relatively small base rosters by fighting game standards. Multiple waves of DLC made sense because it almost seemed like it was baked into the business model for those games.

Smash, on the other hand, has always had that old school N64-era collectathon mentality where all the content is on cart/disk and part of the game’s novelty is unlocking everything. Part of me loves that about Smash and how much value our initial $60 purchase offers. As a Geno fan though, I say bring on the DLC, all the DLC.

I actually think additional DLC passes are extremely likely. I don’t keep up with everything Sakurai says. But from what i’ve Seen, he’s never said anything that outright says he won’t. Heck, remember what he said in the final pre-release direct? “Why stop when we can add more? This is Smash Bros!”

This thread is about Geno though.

 

[wynn728]

Side note: the indie rep idea is stupid. You can’t represent something as broad as indie games with one character, nor would Nintendo set arbitrary restrictions like “just one character from a self-published series.”

That's why I feel like Smash Bros Ultimate should have an Indie Pass with five fighters.
Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Quote are lock as the first three. The last two could be either Gunvolt, The Knight from Hollow Knight, San or Frisk, Miriam, or Cuphead.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Shantae would be really cool but I do think there’s a real smash bubble effect going on with the character and their perceived popularity. She has a fairly big presence in Smash discussion but actual game sales seem low compared to other “big” indies. As for popularity in Japan, none of the mediacreate lists had her chart for long at all.

She was popular enough to get a spirit though, so clearly the devs acknowledge the fanbase.

Side note: the indie rep idea is stupid. You can’t represent something as broad as indie games with one character, nor would Nintendo set arbitrary restrictions like “just one character from a self-published series.”

I think there's more merit to the idea than you're presenting with regards to Indie games. I originally held the same opinion, but then realized Sakurai had broadly defined categories before and inserted characters into them. He likes his surprise reps, he likes his Pokemon reps, and so on. I don't think the idea of including an indie rep as a broad category and then eventually settling on ones sounds so unreasonable any more. Yes, indie games are incredibly broad, but so would be the category of retro reps. You decide that you want to set aside a character for something more general and then narrow it down from there based upon different qualities of the candidates. Sure, you'll never get a single Indie character to represent everything, but you'll be pushing Indies as a major platform altogether by supporting one, which is arguably the more important detail there. It's a collective win for indie gaming development that doesn't necessarily reflect them all.

Again, I used to be completely on your side of things with the idea of an indie rep. But it's something I've really softened to the more I've thought about it. While there's still a lot of major third parties to include in Smash, we've also already blown through several and I think there's some merit to wanting to further the crossover in that direction. Especially if characters end up with larger fan bases too. I mean, theoretically, at some point, one character will have to break the boundary of no playable Indies in Smash, especially if Indie games continue their current upswing and become increasingly mainstream. That character won't necessarily be THE indie rep, but it will be representing Indies as a whole when that happens.

 

[ZelDan]

I don't know if I'd judge the offerings of Shovel Knight as all belonging to one game like that. Each of the main DLC offerings have easily encompassed their own independent game's worth of content with different mechanics. We're just currently in a day and age where that's a feasible and consumer friendly strategy to expanding your "franchise." It just seems wrong to call Specter of Torment or Plague of Shadows just DLC when they could be (and in some instances have been) released as their own titles. I'd also like to point out Shovel Knight still has a lot of content on the way with King of Cards and Showdown, so I wouldn't really give Shantae any points over Knight in that regard.

I don't have any issues with Shantae, but I don't think she's really got much over Shovel Knight other than the original Shantae came out in 2002. Which was also published by Capcom originally, so her status as an indie rep has always felt slightly off to me even if I don't think it's an issue. Like if you're going for a more specific indie rep, Shovel Knight seems born of that tradition more so. Shantae's just a solid third party pick of her own haha.


Unrelated, but I'm really damn hopeful we will see more DLC for Ultimate... but every time Sakurai mentions DLC, my hopes for that fall further and further. He just doesn't seem the type to support a game indefinitely, even if Ultimate and the Fighter's Pass are massive successes and will continue to be massive successes for the Switch and Nintendo moving forward.

yeah, I've always felt that Shovel Knight's DLC was always more than just your typical DLC, especially Specter Knight's. I feel like Spectre Knight's DLC could be considered it's own thing where it didn't only change mechanics, but also completely changed the levels too and the music in each one I believe. It was also sold seperately from Shovel KNight Treasure Trove as well. I'm guessing King Knight's campaign and Showdown will be the same way. Regardless of how you one feels about the Shovel Knight DLC, it has still helped keep Shovel Knight relevant since 2014 and kept the IP alive.

I'd also add that, while some people like to criticize Shovel Knight for this (for whatever reason), he has made many appearances throughout other indie games, with some of those appearances being playable ones. Now, I don't think that making a guest appearance in another game is on the same level as having your own game or anything, but it's still something that increases his presence or visibility within the indie market at the very least, and I think that counts for something when it comes to his relevance (compared to other indies anyways).

 

[EarlTamm]

yeah, I've always felt that Shovel Knight's DLC was always more than just your typical DLC, especially Specter Knight's. I feel like Spectre Knight's DLC could be considered it's own thing where it didn't only change mechanics, but also completely changed the levels too and the music in each one I believe. It was also sold seperately from Shovel KNight Treasure Trove as well. I'm guessing King Knight's campaign and Showdown will be the same way. Regardless of how you one feels about the Shovel Knight DLC, it has still helped keep Shovel Knight relevant since 2014 and kept the IP alive.

I'd also add that, while some people like to criticize Shovel Knight for this (for whatever reason), he has made many appearances throughout other indie games, with some of those appearances being playable ones. Now, I don't think that making a guest appearance in another game is on the same level as having your own game or anything, but it's still something that increases his presence or visibility within the indie market at the very least, and I think that counts for something when it comes to his relevance (compared to other indies anyways).

Shovel Knight's appearances in other games is a weird dynamic to me. I don't know if it's ever been confirmed, but I think part of the reason he has had so many appearances in Indie games is because of Yacht Club being rather new in the market. Development costs for their massive DLC campaigns very clearly go above the kickstarter funds and would put quite the dent in anything gained from the sale of the Shovel Knight game(And any separate expansion for anyone who didn't get base Shovel Knight). And that is before taking into account the budget needed to make their new game, Cyber Shadow. Because of that, I think Shovel Knight's constant cameo's are YC's way of getting money while they are focusing exclusivly on development. That's primarily the reason why I haven't been annoyed by his constant cameo's as some other have, as without them YC might not be able to sail smoothly.

I may be wrong in this assessment(Like I said, I don't think this has ever been confirmed), so please feel free to correct me if I am making some grave error in my logic.

 

[osby]

Shovel Knight's appearances in other games is a weird dynamic to me. I don't know if it's ever been confirmed, but I think part of the reason he has had so many appearances in Indie games is because of Yacht Club being rather new in the market. Development costs for their massive DLC campaigns very clearly go above the kickstarter funds and would put quite the dent in anything gained from the sale of the Shovel Knight game(And any separate expansion for anyone who didn't get base Shovel Knight). And that is before taking into account the budget needed to make their new game, Cyber Shadow. Because of that, I think Shovel Knight's constant cameo's are YC's way of getting money while they are focusing exclusivly on development. That's primarily the reason why I haven't been annoyed by his constant cameo's as some other have, as without them YC might not be able to sail smoothly.

I may be wrong in this assessment(Like I said, I don't think this has ever been confirmed), so please feel free to correct me if I am making some grave error in my logic.

That seems plausible.

It's likely why P5 is getting collaborations left and right too, with ATLUS being a small company and all.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

What are everyone's thoughts on the maintenance going on right now? You think it'll add Hero or is it something smaller in your opinion?

 

[ShotoStar 2]

What are everyone's thoughts on the maintenance going on right now? You think it'll add Hero or is it something smaller in your opinion?

I think there's a good chance it'll be for Hero. If I recall correctly Joker had Maintenance a few days before he was dropped on us and the same could very well happen for Hero but even if not they could be preparing the servers for it as Joker made the servers crash for an entire day and we wouldn't want that to happen a second time.

Over all I say it's likely but there's always a chance it isn't for them we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[link2702]

Hopefully they’ll add some things again that data miners can find that gives us a clue on who’s after banjo...




Then again they might only add files for the hero, and new ones related to banjo and nothing else, since he was revealed so early.

 

[Ovaltine]

Hopefully they’ll add some things again that data miners can find that gives us a clue on who’s after banjo...




Then again they might only add files for the hero, and new ones related to banjo and nothing else, since he was revealed so early.

I think that they'll only add stuff for Hero and Banjo, too. Hopefully we might get a sneak peek at the Mii costumes earlier through data-mining.

 

[Firox]

That's why I feel like Smash Bros Ultimate should have an Indie Pass with five fighters.
Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Quote are lock as the first three. The last two could be either Gunvolt, The Knight from Hollow Knight, San or Frisk, Miriam, or Cuphead.

You know, I think I'd actually be pretty hype about an indie fighter pass. A couple characters that I think would be off the hook would be Specter Knight and Hyper Light Drifter. Specter Knight could have some awesome after-image moves and has that cool scythe and HLD was actually a playable character in the smash bros knock-off, Brawlout.

And in response to those hoping for data miners to find any clues as to the last two DLC, we're probably going to be out of luck this time. From what I've seen and heard, Nintendo learned their lesson from all the "Jack" and "Brave" speculation and removed any naming conventions from the remaining DLC slots. As far as I know, we're flying completely blind at this point.

 

[Vector Victor]

Plot twist: Brave wasn't any of the characters so far.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Today is a great day to support Geno from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars to get into Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch as a downloadable content playable character.

Let's get those frog coins today paleos

 

[Ovaltine]

Today is a great day to support Geno from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars to get into Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch as a downloadable content playable character.

Let's get those frog coins today paleos

I NEED TO GET THOSE DAMN FROG COINS.

 

[Sigran101]

What are everyone's thoughts on the maintenance going on right now? You think it'll add Hero or is it something smaller in your opinion?

I think we'd have gotten a trailer first if Hero was about to drop.

 

[Ovaltine]

I think we'd have gotten a trailer first if Hero was about to drop.

My guess is it's preemptive maintenance, but not immediately preceding a drop. I'd expect the actual reveal later this week, if not later than that.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

My guess is it's preemptive maintenance, but not immediately preceding a drop. I'd expect the actual reveal later this week, if not later than that.

Yeah, Nintendo is really weird when they announce a season that something will be released in.

Summer releases usually tend to mean August most of the time. Fire Emblem Three Houses was given a Spring 2019 release date, was never officially delayed or anything, and is releasing at the end of July. They seem to like the non committal nature of just giving a season for release.

 

[Ovaltine]

Yeah, Nintendo is really weird when they announce a season that something will be released in.

Summer releases usually tend to mean August most of the time. Fire Emblem Three Houses was given a Spring 2019 release date, was never officially delayed or anything, and is releasing at the end of July. They seem to like the non committal nature of just giving a season for release.

It's a good thing Banjo and Kazooie are coming. Maybe if we go to Click Clock Wood, we can activate those seasons and get a sneak peek at the future.

Listen, it's a great idea. I'm a genius.

 

[Vector Victor]

Today is a great day to support Geno from Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars to get into Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch as a downloadable content playable character.

Let's get those frog coins today paleos

Let's have some hopeful but baseless optimism for Geno. I have zero proof of any of this but hope saying it so matter-of-factly will force the universe to make it true.

Geno will be fighter pass character number 4, Smash fighter 74. His trailer will use a remix of Forest Mushroom while Geno Whirls into Battle.

He will come with:
-7 SMRPG songs (combo of original and remix)
-7 spirits that use NPCs and bosses (Wario for Booster on Spirit Tracks, Young Link using his down air A for Mack in Hyrule, Dark Pit using B (arrows) and Side B (electric) for Bowyer in Pikmin stage, Greninja for Froguicious in Electroplankton stage, Corrin for Yardiovich on the rock portion of the wii resort stage Giant Cloud for Exor on Castle Siege and Dedede for Smithy on that Metal Gear stage),
--Some of his alts will be based off the cape designs from the player's guide, one for Gaz and one from that Puppox enemy
-His stage will be Bowser's Castle with Exor sticking out in the background. He will be a hazard that uses his moves from the fight. Hazards off will just have him stand there.
-His symbol is a star in the shape of his magic symbol and the 7 stars key items.
-His victory music is a combo of the victory song and star get song.
-His victory screens will be his in game victory pose by crossing his arms, a spin around with his arms raised and a laughing happily animation.
-His specials are his magic attacks in the game
-His final smash is Star Rain, casting it together with Mallow who will have a 3D model (like Ness's FS).
-His Mii costume will be available during his presentation, along with a Mallow costume for Sword fighter, a Boshi Hat, a Smithy Hat, a Valentina hat and an Axem Red swordfighter costume.
-Everyone will love him.

 

[Nicnac]

Did we ever come to a conclusion on that mad wee Vifam figure with the gun Sakurai bought? I feel that's potentially very important.

 

[xpnc]

Did we ever come to a conclusion on that mad wee Vifam figure with the gun Sakurai bought? I feel that's potentially very important.

I don't think anyone ever figured out what it was for

 

[egaddmario]

Did we ever come to a conclusion on that mad wee Vifam figure with the gun Sakurai bought? I feel that's potentially very important.

I don't think anyone ever figured out what it was for

It was

Spoiler

for Geno

 

[Vector Victor]

Did we ever come to a conclusion on that mad wee Vifam figure with the gun Sakurai bought? I feel that's potentially very important.

Probably for Banjo-Kazooie.