Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Spatulo]

And then there's the real versionView attachment 249351

This might be my new favorite thing.

 

[Nazyrus]

My perfect scenario is that they kick off the Fighter's Pass too. What a way to start!

It would definitely fall right on a pass that is meant to be oportunities to please fans. Throw Isaac into the mix and we gucci lol

 

[RetrogamerMax]

And then there's the real versionView attachment 249351

I love this thread.

 

[Nazyrus]

I'm envisioning the, "Uh, meow?" scene with Sora now and I absolutely hate it

I absolutely, completely hate it

Nah Sora at least knows how to roar in KH2, nothing can be worse than sonic's meow lol

 

[Vector Victor]

It would definitely fall right on a pass that is meant to be oportunities to please fans. Throw Isaac into the mix and we gucci lol

Nintendo was taken aback with how disappointed people were with Isaac being an AT again. Hopefully Nintendo then felt to remedy that.

With a DLC addition.

 

[Franco Geno]

Mine is Black 2 due to the story, the region, and the Pokémon distribution. Gen 5 in general had the best storytelling in Pokémon in my opinion and they give me a game where I can get a Riolu and a Magnemite before the second gym? Perfection. Also I really liked the movie studio, I thought that was a really cool unique mode and I liked thinking through the different challenges.

I always liked how the pokemon were animated during the battles and the fact that the battles were quick but intense was awesome.
i remember spending like two hours trying to find a wild Lapras on the village bridge and when i finally found one he used perish song but thankfully i got him in the last turn

 

[AdamBel731]

Sometimes I wonder what I'm doing with my life and also question why do I make this garbage with my phone
View attachment 249335
View attachment 249336
View attachment 249337

Wynn, I know you and I don't get along but... I've seen you talk about Travis Touchdown in Smash multiple times and I gotta say... I likey a lot. What can I say, I have to recognize good taste when I see it.

Wynn let's team up. Let's be like Batman and the Joker and form an unlikely alliance to be advocates for Travis Touchdown in Smash! We both actually agree on something for once. We'll be like two peas in a pod, peanut butter and jelly, two Geno fans in a Geno support thread, etc. The world can't stop the both of us.

 

[Franco Geno]

Wynn, I know you and I don't get along but... I've seen you talk about Travis Touchdown in Smash multiple times and I gotta say... I likey a lot. What can I say, I have to recognize good taste when I see it.

Wynn let's team up. Let's be like Batman and the Joker and form an unlikely alliance to be advocates for Travis Touchdown in Smash! We both actually agree on something for once. We'll be like two peas in a pod, peanut butter and jelly, two Geno fans in a Geno support thread, etc. The world can't stop the both of us.

Well this is an unexpected turn of events

 

[ForsakenM]

Hey guys, what normally takes my time this evening has been cancelled. Thus, it's speculation time!

So a buddy of mine and I were shooting the **** and we starting talking about Smash speculations and how crazy things have been for Ultimate. We started talking about things we were confident in and I spoke up about when I was saying that DLC was too ahead of schedule for nothing to be happening. For those of you who weren't around for that, here's the proof.

Spoiler: Da Proof

Fun fact: Joker was likely mostly done before the February Direct. In fact, he was likely mostly done before January. This is why the DQ Crew and B&K are in such finished states to have reveal trailers: most of the wait time between Joker's announcement and his release was likely spent on making DQ Crew and Banjo to have them presentable for E3. This mean that those characters are now in Joker's boat back in Dec/Jan: they are mostly done, meaning that time can now be spent on #4 and #5.

Think about it: development on Joker started early November once the game went gold. It was early Dec when he was announced, close to a full month of development time with a team focusing on mainly just the Fighter's Pass. Come January it had been two months, Joker was likely in a polishing state at this point. The reason we only got an idle stance is likely because that was the most polished portion and it didn't reveal any gameplay, not that he was barely worked on. This means March and April were likely just some small touches and moving on to DQ Crew and B&K to have them ready for E3 reveals. This would give them between 3-4 months to make a character, which makes complete sense since they have lots of cash and a team dedicated to just them instead of an entire game. Remember, this is Sora Ltd and Sakurai, not GameFreak who can't be efficient and is incompetent.

It is totally possible to see more character reveals for the Fighter Pass this soon. If it follows a similar pattern as what I described above, then Fighter #4 could have started work in Late April/Early May. However, it could also mean we will have a another gap before another reveal because they were working on two at once, but since Hero comes out soon and Banjo & Kazooie look very much mostly done, we could get a definitive release date on B&K at EVO (probably not, since Nintendo is enjoying their Shadow Drops) or Fighter #4.

I mean, look at Piranha Plant. It was essentially finished in that Nov Direct, right? So they had to polish it up and test it and make small tweaks. That takes about a month or so of time, and then we got it late Jan. Just because a character is mostly done or completely done doesn't mean it has to release immediately afterwards. DQ Crew and B&K can be mostly done or completely done by now, and we are just waiting for the scheduled release date, and meanwhile Sora Ltd is working on Fighter #4. This means that they could mostly done with Fighter #4 even as we are typing here wondering when Hero will drop.

EDIT: Another Fun fact, mostly Fun Theory though: if they are planning more content like modes and maybe bonus characters, working at this kind of a pace makes even more sense. You would have most of the crew working on characters to have them mostly complete before their scheduled reveal, then have some working on Stage Builder or Home Run Contest or Mii Costumes or what-have-ya which can be finished much more quickly. They can move people around as needed, but if enough people are available and are working on mostly characters (since Sakurai is very particular about giving us the absolute best presentation of the characters possible), it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that they could maintain this kind of pace. It also wouldn't be too far fetched to say that if they are aiming to have characters done this quickly, it could be because there is more coming than we even have any idea of.

Nintendo dropped the DLC on them, they could be seeing early sales predictions and pre-orders and already thinking of dropping more on them.

Don't get me wrong, that could absolutely be it, but...

Sakurai likes his little surprises. He doesn't troll us very often or for very long, but he does like to hit us with surprises because he's proud of his work and his game. I feel like them simply being 'ahead of schedule' is the least likely thing because, to have been THIS ahead of schedule, they would have had to work CRAZY hard. I mean, Plant was mostly done in Nov. Joker was announced with no gameplay at all in Dec, and then released in April which means my older posts saying that he was likely done somewhere in Jan-March is likely correct. Thus that wait time was to work on having both Hero and Banjo done enough to reveal both for E3, which was June 11th. Suddenly, we get Hero at the end of July and now Banjo in early Sept? This would mean that not only Hero but also Banjo was mostly done and that what we can presume to be a SNK/KoF character has been worked on since...June? Maybe May? We will know for sure if we get #4 revealed in the Sept Direct but jesus lord almighty, THAT is an INSANE pace just to be 'ahead of schedule'.

This is why I feel like there is more of some sort.

Also remember that we still have 6 more modes coming to Ultimate, and that each mode thus far has been released alongside the character...but we only have three more characters left...

Really makes ya thonk!

I find it funny that I had this stance since July and earlier, but two days later after I argued for my position again, Banjo & Kazooie were released and their gameplay breakdown confirmed my theory into fact.
Anyway, to sum up that theory as it's integral to this one, I basically argued that was done roughly around the time we knew about it and was just being polished and that was more than likely completed in January or February. This allowed enough time to finish and by E3 and that both were in the polishing stages or fully completed by that time.

So it was at this point that this friend and I started thinking about how crazy ahead they were and then I thought...wait a minute! This would explain a lot about future DLC! So, allow me to explain my theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now that we know for a fact that the DLC characters are very much completed over a month in advance before being released and that the time between completion and release is dedicated to small things like finishing touches and making sure all the other content that comes with them is finished but that MOST of that in-between times is dedicated to the next character to have them ready and keep up this breakneck pace...let us apply this to the post-pass DLC.

So we've all heard that the Fighter's Pass sold mind-gasmingly well, right? Enough to make the decision to have more of it before the pass was even done, right? So, let's apply some logic real quick to see when the decision for more DLC would have been made...

Spoiler: Part 1: The Decision For More DLC Was Made In Very Early 2019

Now some people may argue that most of the Fighter's Pass sales came from the / announcement, but I beg to differ. Think about it for a moment: the E3 Direct was on June 11th and the announcement of more DLC was on September 4th. Yet the information we got about the success of the Fighter's Pass was just recently in November, right? When you consider that and how ahead of schedule Sakurai and Co have been all year, wouldn't it make more sense for the decision for more DLC to have taken place even earlier than June or July? Also, as some people have suggested, many people bought the pass before the first announce at the VGAs. So, my theory is that the decision for more DLC was made as early as January or February, around the time Joker would have been finished.

So we all know for a fact that a crapton of people went out and pre-ordered the Fighter's Pass with their copy of Ultimate the minute the November Direct ended, right? That's just obvious, but also Joker's reveal at the VGAs most CERTAINLY made people grab the pass in droves when they went to pick up the game. That surge of pass pre-orders and then pass purchases made Nintendo A LOT OF CASH! Enough for Nintendo to tell Sakurai to be like King of Skill and 'DO IT AGAIN!' and I believe this happened in January after we got numbers on how stupidly well the game sold. This would mean that Nintendo stopped by the office and told Sakurai that they wanted more DLC characters in January or early February and thus this is where the breakneck pace for the DLC came from. If you think about it, being done RIGHT at Feb 2020 would be a perfect pace to make sure nothing is rushed, right? Getting five characters done in a little over a year is a pretty fair pace...but when you need to make even more characters after that?

This means that more negotiations are in order and meetings must be had and terms must be agreed to and companies need to have their input put in...that takes a LOT of work and a LOT of time...and so far, Sakurai hasn't promised us any content or made any announcements until it's been either mostly decided and being worked on or has been decided and is being worked on. So, negotiating and planning meetings and talking with other companies and accepting terms and making the basic designs for new characters while also making the ones you already agreed to? That explains a breakneck pace as there is no longer time to take things easy or you won't be able to meet your Feb 2020 deadline.

Now, think about this. With my theory suggesting that more DLC was approved by Nintendo in January, this means that negotiations started earlier this year. That would mean that at some point this year, it's likely that characters were agreed upon and starting being worked on, right? Well, when did we get the announcement of more characters? September 4th. This means that at least one single characters was negotiated for prior to September by Sakurai's standards, right? Now when you consider all the names being tossed around that no one has been able to say they aren't in the game but rather they aren't the fifth Fighter's Pass character and insiders are saying they've heard more than one character's name being tossed about...it would seem that more than one character has been successfully negotiated by this point and time. When you ALSO consider that many of these names have been tossed around since earlier in the year, it supports both multiple characters being successfully negotiated for as well as the decision being made earlier in the year.

Spoiler: Part 2: Some Post-Pass DLC Characters Were Negotiated Before E3

Now, for the bold claims: I believe that at least two characters were successfully negotiated for or very nearly so as early as E3. So we've already established that the talks for more DLC happened very early in the year, possibly before even Joker was finished in February. With that in mind, you remember during E3 when the website glitched and showed those two extra character slots?

What if it wasn't just a website glitch that could be dismissed, but it was that those two slots were purposely added at that time because two more characters were in the works but when they updated the website for / there was a temporary mishap and we saw something they weren't ready for us to see? Sure, this is speculation, but think about the accidental Bloody Tears leak and how Nintendo leaked their own new modes in their commercials on their YT channel and how Nintendo of Spain leaked that we were getting an SNK character. Nintendo isn't perfect and makes mistakes, so it could be just as likely that these extra spots were put in for more characters but that we were never suppose to see it until they were ready to announce it.

Spoiler: Part 3: Supporting My Ideas With The Same Evidence That Supported My Claims Of More DLC + More.

Now, here are some more things that supports these claims of post-pass characters being negotiated for and worked on earlier in the year: 's gameplay breakdown, the large gap in time between 's reveal and Joker's release, the recording time-frame of the gameplay breakdowns for and as well as the teaser footage for , and lastly Sakurai's own statement that it takes a lot of time to do translation for the gameplay breakdown videos.

You ever noticed how odd it is that 's gameplay breakdown was so over-the-top, had all the voice actors involved, and was generally just better production value overall and how that was completely lost for the rest of the Fighter's Pass? Sure, Sakurai said there were budget constraints and I believe him, but what if it was also because Joker's was done in advance and was being created before Sakurai was told to do more DLC characters? What if it was less about budget and more about time constraints because now more characters need to be negotiated for and it was just easier to manage Sakurai doing a gameplay breakdown himself and sending it in to be translated rather than pulling all the stops for big budget breakdowns? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? This also plays into Joker being revealed at the VGAs but not being released until April. Imagine that you have to get two character reveals ready for E3 but you also need to head to a couple of meetings to negotiate these other characters and you have to make sure you hit that Feb 2020 deadline or even earlier. Wouldn't it make sense to take the extra time to make those negotiations and get them done and out of the way earlier in the year? Wouldn't it make sense to cut the extra production of the character gameplay breakdowns to be able to negotiate for more characters?

Now think about and . They were both revealed in June and they had both of their videos recorded within the same week. That sounds like trying to maximize time to me to keep up with the scheduled deadline but also to afford more time for more negotiations. fits this too: remember how completed he was with just his teaser footage, but how we never got the gameplay portion of his reveal because it wasn't ready in time, so instead the put in that cute timeline reflection for home consoles that ended on the Neo Geo? Doesn't that sound like a combinations of Terry not being fully ready for his reveal as well as trying to afford more time for more character negotiations? "Oh, well every other character other than Joker who wasn't even remotely close to being done had a gameplay reveal trailer...but Terry isn't ready enough for that extensive of a reveal and I have meetings scheduled for #8 throughout the month...how about we change up Terry's reveal but let them see the full trailer later when we go over his gameplay breakdown?" Once again, speculation, but it seems VERY plausible.

Lastly, Sakurai informed us that the Terry video was made a month in advance because of editing and translation, which sounds fair to me...but we all know that a good editor could have that video ready in a week or less and I think a translator could dub over it in probably two weeks? Regardless, having gameplay breakdowns done well enough in advance would be a way to afford more time for more character talks.

Spoiler: Part 4: How I Believe This Supports Geno's Chances And Interesting Things To Support That Claim

So now I've implied that both the decision for more DLC was made early on in the year and that negotiations could have easily already been completed for some character by the middle of this year. Now, why is specifically the middle of this year important? Well, it's in regards to a certain blue puppet boi...

and likely had both of their gameplay breakdowns recorded sometime in late May to early July. We would know this because they were essentially 100% complete in their reveals as well as Sakurai stating that the longer breakdown took about a month to prep for us. This means that the teaser footage of Terry was at that level of completion around the same time, and Terry's reveal didn't have any gameplay. Right after that announcement of Terry, we got the announcement of more DLC characters. This to me is more proof that the decision for more DLC and the negotiations for more characters happened very early on, but what I find interesting is what this means about Hero.

So, as we all know, Geno's costume didn't come with . We all worried it easily could, but it didn't. Now, knowing that Hero was recorded only a mere couple days before and that 's sneak preview footage and his reveal before that ties him into that time-frame while also suggesting possible changes to the process to make room for more negotiations...what if Geno was intended to come with Hero originally, but these early negotiations came into play and one of the characters Sakurai managed to nab was Geno? What if one of the reasons everything got so breakneck pace was that Sakurai went back to Square to get Geno and dealing with Square tends to have it's issues (though apparently, not nearly as bad as we thought, according to information about how the development process went with Hero) and it was a rush to see if Sakurai could get him or not because Hero was #2 and Geno's Mii costume was going to return with him, so it was a race to see if Sakurai could get him or not before Hero's gameplay breakdown? This would also match up with there being more than one character negotiated for by E3 and therefore matching up with that website glitch.

Here is some more interesting timing for you. had their gameplay breakdown in July and was recorded around the time-frame of May through July. What else happened in roughly in this time period? Apparently, the copyright claims that took down Beware The Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against and Armed Boss happened around this time. The whole Starling thing that has yet to amount to anything came out around this time, and remember, this ended up being something we maybe shouldn't had known about just yet. Do you guys remember how insiders and then also us knew about Dragon Quest in Smash for so many months before it was revealed? You remember how was known for a decent amount of time before their reveal? What about all the information that was said that ended up coming true between both the 'Everyone Is Here' reveal and the August Direct, but that was leaked so many months before hand? When inside information is known, it's often known well in advance before anything official comes out, or at least the trend tends to be for Smash. Either than, or it's known shortly after a leak done by Nintendo themselves. What if the Starling image was actually a hint to Geno like we all hoped in assumed, but the reason we saw nothing for so long and even still about it is because it IS for our boy Geno, but he's not coming until sometime next year, but Sabi's NoA source found out about him being successfully negotiated for shortly after it happened and for the sake of his position and the position of others (because Geno is KINDA a big deal of a reveal for the Smash community and for Sakurai, I'm sure) and thus gave is the vaguest image hint ever with no clarification?

Now, toss in the the CacoMallow video that STILL hasn't been debunked at all. You remember how the Ken debug leak kind just fell away to the wayside until Ken was revealed? How it was lost in the shuffle of other fake leaks but turned out to be the real leak? Suddenly, this is happening to the CacoMallow leak: a ton of people tried to point out why it was fake, couldn't 100% prove it, then gave up and moved to the next big leak. We've been given proof that content is completed well in advance and the Mallow hat also falls in line with another reliable leak...and when was that leak information received? In July, around the same time-frame as everything mentioned before...hmm...

There may have been more on my mind, but I will end this with saying that Geno has never truly left insider circle talk and has gained more steam as we've gone on. On top of that, people like Fatmanonice who has been involved with these circles to a certain degree have such amazing confidence in Geno's chances that he's about to drop the biggest bombshell of 2019 around the time of the VGAs. Also, the Mallow hat in that CacoMallow image looks pretty finished, so not only would I tell you to expect Geno unless something much bigger comes out to completely rule him out, but I would expect him sooner rather than later. Not FP#5, but definitely soon after.

This took some time to type out but I really wanted to get it to you guys sooner rather than later. Tell me, what do you think about all this?

EDIT: This is a huge-ass post and I'm working on making it more sectioned off with spoilers but I'm tired and I REALLY wanted to get this out now, so forgive me as I work on sectioning it off.

 

[AdamBel731]

Well this is an unexpected turn of eventsView attachment 249364

You sir, need to please make more memes in situations akin to this one and the one with Spatulo and the magazine. Because these recent ones are genuinely funny. I enjoy the use of Dr. Doofenshmirtz.

 

[Franco Geno]

You sir, need to please make more memes in situations akin to this one and the one with Spatulo and the magazine. Because these recent ones are genuinely funny. I enjoy the use of Dr. Doofenshmirtz.

Thank you very much good sir, i will try to keep up with the memes as much as i can

 

[TheCJBrine]

Hey guys, what normally takes my time this evening has been cancelled. Thus, it's speculation time!

So a buddy of mine and I were shooting the **** and we starting talking about Smash speculations and how crazy things have been for Ultimate. We started talking about things we were confident in and I spoke up about when I was saying that DLC was too ahead of schedule for nothing to be happening. For those of you who weren't around for that, here's the proof.
I find it funny that I had this stance since July and earlier, but two days later after I argued for my position again, Banjo & Kazooie were released and their gameplay breakdown confirmed my theory into fact.
Anyway, to sum up that theory as it's integral to this one, I basically argued that was done roughly around the time we knew about it and was just being polished and that was more than likely completed in January or February. This allowed enough time to finish and by E3 and that both were in the polishing stages or fully completed by that time.

So it was at this point that this friend and I started thinking about how crazy ahead they were and then I thought...wait a minute! This would explain a lot about future DLC! So, allow me to explain my theory.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now that we know for a fact that the DLC characters are very much completed over a month in advance before being released and that the time between completion and release is dedicated to small things like finishing touches and making sure all the other content that comes with them is finished but that MOST of that in-between times is dedicated to the next character to have them ready and keep up this breakneck pace...let us apply this to the post-pass DLC.

So we've all heard that the Fighter's Pass sold mind-gasmingly well, right? Enough to make the decision to have more of it before the pass was even done, right? So, let's apply some logic real quick to see when the decision for more DLC would have been made...

Spoiler: Part 1: The Decision For More DLC Was Made In Very Early 2019

Now some people may argue that most of the Fighter's Pass sales came from the / announcement, but I beg to differ. Think about it for a moment: the E3 Direct was on June 11th and the announcement of more DLC was on September 4th. Yet the information we got about the success of the Fighter's Pass was just recently in November, right? When you consider that and how ahead of schedule Sakurai and Co have been all year, wouldn't it make more sense for the decision for more DLC to have taken place even earlier than June or July? Also, as some people have suggested, many people bought the pass before the first announce at the VGAs. So, my theory is that the decision for more DLC was made as early as January or February, around the time Joker would have been finished.

So we all know for a fact that a crapton of people went out and pre-ordered the Fighter's Pass with their copy of Ultimate the minute the November Direct ended, right? That's just obvious, but also Joker's reveal at the VGAs most CERTAINLY made people grab the pass in droves when they went to pick up the game. That surge of pass pre-orders and then pass purchases made Nintendo A LOT OF CASH! Enough for Nintendo to tell Sakurai to be like King of Skill and 'DO IT AGAIN!' and I believe this happened in January after we got numbers on how stupidly well the game sold. This would mean that Nintendo stopped by the office and told Sakurai that they wanted more DLC characters in January or early February and thus this is where the breakneck pace for the DLC came from. If you think about it, being done RIGHT at Feb 2020 would be a perfect pace to make sure nothing is rushed, right? Getting five characters done in a little over a year is a pretty fair pace...but when you need to make even more characters after that?

This means that more negotiations are in order and meetings must be had and terms must be agreed to and companies need to have their input put in...that takes a LOT of work and a LOT of time...and so far, Sakurai hasn't promised us any content or made any announcements until it's been either mostly decided and being worked on or has been decided and is being worked on. So, negotiating and planning meetings and talking with other companies and accepting terms and making the basic designs for new characters while also making the ones you already agreed to? That explains a breakneck pace as there is no longer time to take things easy or you won't be able to meet your Feb 2020 deadline.

Now, think about this. With my theory suggesting that more DLC was approved by Nintendo in January, this means that negotiations started earlier this year. That would mean that at some point this year, it's likely that characters were agreed upon and starting being worked on, right? Well, when did we get the announcement of more characters? September 4th. This means that at least one single characters was negotiated for prior to September by Sakurai's standards, right? Now when you consider all the names being tossed around that no one has been able to say they aren't in the game but rather they aren't the fifth Fighter's Pass character and insiders are saying they've heard more than one character's name being tossed about...it would seem that more than one character has been successfully negotiated by this point and time. When you ALSO consider that many of these names have been tossed around since earlier in the year, it supports both multiple characters being successfully negotiated for as well as the decision being made earlier in the year.

Spoiler: Part 2: Some Post-Pass DLC Characters Were Negotiated Before E3

Now, for the bold claims: I believe that at least two characters were successfully negotiated for or very nearly so as early as E3. So we've already established that the talks for more DLC happened very early in the year, possibly before even Joker was finished in February. With that in mind, you remember during E3 when the website glitched and showed those two extra character slots?

What if it wasn't just a website glitch that could be dismissed, but it was that those two slots were purposely added at that time because two more characters were in the works but when they updated the website for / there was a temporary mishap and we saw something they weren't ready for us to see? Sure, this is speculation, but think about the accidental Bloody Tears leak and how Nintendo leaked their own new modes in their commercials on their YT channel and how Nintendo of Spain leaked that we were getting an SNK character. Nintendo isn't perfect and makes mistakes, so it could be just as likely that these extra spots were put in for more characters but that we were never suppose to see it until they were ready to announce it.

Spoiler: Part 3: Supporting My Ideas With The Same Evidence That Supported My Claims Of More DLC + More.

Now, here are some more things that supports these claims of post-pass characters being negotiated for and worked on earlier in the year: 's gameplay breakdown, the large gap in time between 's reveal and Joker's release, the recording time-frame of the gameplay breakdowns for and as well as the teaser footage for , and lastly Sakurai's own statement that it takes a lot of time to do translation for the gameplay breakdown videos.

You ever noticed how odd it is that 's gameplay breakdown was so over-the-top, had all the voice actors involved, and was generally just better production value overall and how that was completely lost for the rest of the Fighter's Pass? Sure, Sakurai said there were budget constraints and I believe him, but what if it was also because Joker's was done in advance and was being created before Sakurai was told to do more DLC characters? What if it was less about budget and more about time constraints because now more characters need to be negotiated for and it was just easier to manage Sakurai doing a gameplay breakdown himself and sending it in to be translated rather than pulling all the stops for big budget breakdowns? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? This also plays into Joker being revealed at the VGAs but not being released until April. Imagine that you have to get two character reveals ready for E3 but you also need to head to a couple of meetings to negotiate these other characters and you have to make sure you hit that Feb 2020 deadline or even earlier. Wouldn't it make sense to take the extra time to make those negotiations and get them done and out of the way earlier in the year? Wouldn't it make sense to cut the extra production of the character gameplay breakdowns to be able to negotiate for more characters?

Now think about and . They were both revealed in June and they had both of their videos recorded within the same week. That sounds like trying to maximize time to me to keep up with the scheduled deadline but also to afford more time for more negotiations. fits this too: remember how completed he was with just his teaser footage, but how we never got the gameplay portion of his reveal because it wasn't ready in time, so instead the put in that cute timeline reflection for home consoles that ended on the Neo Geo? Doesn't that sound like a combinations of Terry not being fully ready for his reveal as well as trying to afford more time for more character negotiations? "Oh, well every other character other than Joker who wasn't even remotely close to being done had a gameplay reveal trailer...but Terry isn't ready enough for that extensive of a reveal and I have meetings scheduled for #8 throughout the month...how about we change up Terry's reveal but let them see the full trailer later when we go over his gameplay breakdown?" Once again, speculation, but it seems VERY plausible.

Lastly, Sakurai informed us that the Terry video was made a month in advance because of editing and translation, which sounds fair to me...but we all know that a good editor could have that video ready in a week or less and I think a translator could dub over it in probably two weeks? Regardless, having gameplay breakdowns done well enough in advance would be a way to afford more time for more character talks.

Spoiler: Part 4: How I Believe This Supports Geno's Chances And Interesting Things To Support That Claim

So now I've implied that both the decision for more DLC was made early on in the year and that negotiations could have easily already been completed for some character by the middle of this year. Now, why is specifically the middle of this year important? Well, it's in regards to a certain blue puppet boi...

and likely had both of their gameplay breakdowns recorded sometime in late May to early July. We would know this because they were essentially 100% complete in their reveals as well as Sakurai stating that the longer breakdown took about a month to prep for us. This means that the teaser footage of Terry was at that level of completion around the same time, and Terry's reveal didn't have any gameplay. Right after that announcement of Terry, we got the announcement of more DLC characters. This to me is more proof that the decision for more DLC and the negotiations for more characters happened very early on, but what I find interesting is what this means about Hero.

So, as we all know, Geno's costume didn't come with . We all worried it easily could, but it didn't. Now, knowing that Hero was recorded only a mere couple days before and that 's sneak preview footage and his reveal before that ties him into that time-frame while also suggesting possible changes to the process to make room for more negotiations...what if Geno was intended to come with Hero originally, but these early negotiations came into play and one of the characters Sakurai managed to nab was Geno? What if one of the reasons everything got so breakneck pace was that Sakurai went back to Square to get Geno and dealing with Square tends to have it's issues (though apparently, not nearly as bad as we thought, according to information about how the development process went with Hero) and it was a rush to see if Sakurai could get him or not because Hero was #2 and Geno's Mii costume was going to return with him, so it was a race to see if Sakurai could get him or not before Hero's gameplay breakdown? This would also match up with there being more than one character negotiated for by E3 and therefore matching up with that website glitch.

Here is some more interesting timing for you. had their gameplay breakdown in July and was recorded around the time-frame of May through July. What else happened in roughly in this time period? Apparently, the copyright claims that took down Beware The Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against and Armed Boss happened around this time. The whole Starling thing that has yet to amount to anything came out around this time, and remember, this ended up being something we maybe shouldn't had known about just yet. Do you guys remember how insiders and then also us knew about Dragon Quest in Smash for so many months before it was revealed? You remember how was known for a decent amount of time before their reveal? What about all the information that was said that ended up coming true between both the 'Everyone Is Here' reveal and the August Direct, but that was leaked so many months before hand? When inside information is known, it's often known well in advance before anything official comes out, or at least the trend tends to be for Smash. Either than, or it's known shortly after a leak done by Nintendo themselves. What if the Starling image was actually a hint to Geno like we all hoped in assumed, but the reason we saw nothing for so long and even still about it is because it IS for our boy Geno, but he's not coming until sometime next year, but Sabi's NoA source found out about him being successfully negotiated for shortly after it happened and for the sake of his position and the position of others (because Geno is KINDA a big deal of a reveal for the Smash community and for Sakurai, I'm sure) and thus gave is the vaguest image hint ever with no clarification?

Now, toss in the the CacoMallow video that STILL hasn't been debunked at all. You remember how the Ken debug leak kind just fell away to the wayside until Ken was revealed? How it was lost in the shuffle of other fake leaks but turned out to be the real leak? Suddenly, this is happening to the CacoMallow leak: a ton of people tried to point out why it was fake, couldn't 100% prove it, then gave up and moved to the next big leak. We've been given proof that content is completed well in advance and the Mallow hat also falls in line with another reliable leak...and when was that leak information received? In July, around the same time-frame as everything mentioned before...hmm...

There may have been more on my mind, but I will end this with saying that Geno has never truly left insider circle talk and has gained more steam as we've gone on. On top of that, people like Fatmanonice who has been involved with these circles to a certain degree have such amazing confidence in Geno's chances that he's about to drop the biggest bombshell of 2019 around the time of the VGAs. Also, the Mallow hat in that CacoMallow image looks pretty finished, so not only would I tell you to expect Geno unless something much bigger comes out to completely rule him out, but I would expect him sooner rather than later. Not FP#5, but definitely soon after.

This took some time to type out but I really wanted to get it to you guys sooner rather than later. Tell me, what do you think about all this?

EDIT: This is a huge-ass post and I'm working on making it more sectioned off with spoilers but I'm tired and I REALLY wanted to get this out now, so forgive me as I work on sectioning it off.

Regarding when more DLC was decided, that's possible, though Imran Khan, one of the top insiders, said more DLC was decided around E3 (at 17:00 in this video):

of course, he could be wrong (he was a bit iffy and said "5 months ago" at first while thinking), and either way it's good for us I guess.

 

[Spatulo]

Hey guys, what normally takes my time this evening has been cancelled. Thus, it's speculation time!

So a buddy of mine and I were shooting the **** and we starting talking about Smash speculations and how crazy things have been for Ultimate. We started talking about things we were confident in and I spoke up about when I was saying that DLC was too ahead of schedule for nothing to be happening. For those of you who weren't around for that, here's the proof.
I find it funny that I had this stance since July and earlier, but two days later after I argued for my position again, Banjo & Kazooie were released and their gameplay breakdown confirmed my theory into fact.
Anyway, to sum up that theory as it's integral to this one, I basically argued that was done roughly around the time we knew about it and was just being polished and that was more than likely completed in January or February. This allowed enough time to finish and by E3 and that both were in the polishing stages or fully completed by that time.

So it was at this point that this friend and I started thinking about how crazy ahead they were and then I thought...wait a minute! This would explain a lot about future DLC! So, allow me to explain my theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now that we know for a fact that the DLC characters are very much completed over a month in advance before being released and that the time between completion and release is dedicated to small things like finishing touches and making sure all the other content that comes with them is finished but that MOST of that in-between times is dedicated to the next character to have them ready and keep up this breakneck pace...let us apply this to the post-pass DLC.

So we've all heard that the Fighter's Pass sold mind-gasmingly well, right? Enough to make the decision to have more of it before the pass was even done, right? So, let's apply some logic real quick to see when the decision for more DLC would have been made...

Spoiler: Part 1: The Decision For More DLC Was Made In Very Early 2019

Now some people may argue that most of the Fighter's Pass sales came from the / announcement, but I beg to differ. Think about it for a moment: the E3 Direct was on June 11th and the announcement of more DLC was on September 4th. Yet the information we got about the success of the Fighter's Pass was just recently in November, right? When you consider that and how ahead of schedule Sakurai and Co have been all year, wouldn't it make more sense for the decision for more DLC to have taken place even earlier than June or July? Also, as some people have suggested, many people bought the pass before the first announce at the VGAs. So, my theory is that the decision for more DLC was made as early as January or February, around the time Joker would have been finished.

So we all know for a fact that a crapton of people went out and pre-ordered the Fighter's Pass with their copy of Ultimate the minute the November Direct ended, right? That's just obvious, but also Joker's reveal at the VGAs most CERTAINLY made people grab the pass in droves when they went to pick up the game. That surge of pass pre-orders and then pass purchases made Nintendo A LOT OF CASH! Enough for Nintendo to tell Sakurai to be like King of Skill and 'DO IT AGAIN!' and I believe this happened in January after we got numbers on how stupidly well the game sold. This would mean that Nintendo stopped by the office and told Sakurai that they wanted more DLC characters in January or early February and thus this is where the breakneck pace for the DLC came from. If you think about it, being done RIGHT at Feb 2020 would be a perfect pace to make sure nothing is rushed, right? Getting five characters done in a little over a year is a pretty fair pace...but when you need to make even more characters after that?

This means that more negotiations are in order and meetings must be had and terms must be agreed to and companies need to have their input put in...that takes a LOT of work and a LOT of time...and so far, Sakurai hasn't promised us any content or made any announcements until it's been either mostly decided and being worked on or has been decided and is being worked on. So, negotiating and planning meetings and talking with other companies and accepting terms and making the basic designs for new characters while also making the ones you already agreed to? That explains a breakneck pace as there is no longer time to take things easy or you won't be able to meet your Feb 2020 deadline.

Now, think about this. With my theory suggesting that more DLC was approved by Nintendo in January, this means that negotiations started earlier this year. That would mean that at some point this year, it's likely that characters were agreed upon and starting being worked on, right? Well, when did we get the announcement of more characters? September 4th. This means that at least one single characters was negotiated for prior to September by Sakurai's standards, right? Now when you consider all the names being tossed around that no one has been able to say they aren't in the game but rather they aren't the fifth Fighter's Pass character and insiders are saying they've heard more than one character's name being tossed about...it would seem that more than one character has been successfully negotiated by this point and time. When you ALSO consider that many of these names have been tossed around since earlier in the year, it supports both multiple characters being successfully negotiated for as well as the decision being made earlier in the year.

Spoiler: Part 2: Some Post-Pass DLC Characters Were Negotiated Before E3

Now, for the bold claims: I believe that at least two characters were successfully negotiated for or very nearly so as early as E3. So we've already established that the talks for more DLC happened very early in the year, possibly before even Joker was finished in February. With that in mind, you remember during E3 when the website glitched and showed those two extra character slots?

What if it wasn't just a website glitch that could be dismissed, but it was that those two slots were purposely added at that time because two more characters were in the works but when they updated the website for / there was a temporary mishap and we saw something they weren't ready for us to see? Sure, this is speculation, but think about the accidental Bloody Tears leak and how Nintendo leaked their own new modes in their commercials on their YT channel and how Nintendo of Spain leaked that we were getting an SNK character. Nintendo isn't perfect and makes mistakes, so it could be just as likely that these extra spots were put in for more characters but that we were never suppose to see it until they were ready to announce it.

Spoiler: Part 3: Supporting My Ideas With The Same Evidence That Supported My Claims Of More DLC + More.

Now, here are some more things that supports these claims of post-pass characters being negotiated for and worked on earlier in the year: 's gameplay breakdown, the large gap in time between 's reveal and Joker's release, the recording time-frame of the gameplay breakdowns for and as well as the teaser footage for , and lastly Sakurai's own statement that it takes a lot of time to do translation for the gameplay breakdown videos.

You ever noticed how odd it is that 's gameplay breakdown was so over-the-top, had all the voice actors involved, and was generally just better production value overall and how that was completely lost for the rest of the Fighter's Pass? Sure, Sakurai said there were budget constraints and I believe him, but what if it was also because Joker's was done in advance and was being created before Sakurai was told to do more DLC characters? What if it was less about budget and more about time constraints because now more characters need to be negotiated for and it was just easier to manage Sakurai doing a gameplay breakdown himself and sending it in to be translated rather than pulling all the stops for big budget breakdowns? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? This also plays into Joker being revealed at the VGAs but not being released until April. Imagine that you have to get two character reveals ready for E3 but you also need to head to a couple of meetings to negotiate these other characters and you have to make sure you hit that Feb 2020 deadline or even earlier. Wouldn't it make sense to take the extra time to make those negotiations and get them done and out of the way earlier in the year? Wouldn't it make sense to cut the extra production of the character gameplay breakdowns to be able to negotiate for more characters?

Now think about and . They were both revealed in June and they had both of their videos recorded within the same week. That sounds like trying to maximize time to me to keep up with the scheduled deadline but also to afford more time for more negotiations. fits this too: remember how completed he was with just his teaser footage, but how we never got the gameplay portion of his reveal because it wasn't ready in time, so instead the put in that cute timeline reflection for home consoles that ended on the Neo Geo? Doesn't that sound like a combinations of Terry not being fully ready for his reveal as well as trying to afford more time for more character negotiations? "Oh, well every other character other than Joker who wasn't even remotely close to being done had a gameplay reveal trailer...but Terry isn't ready enough for that extensive of a reveal and I have meetings scheduled for #8 throughout the month...how about we change up Terry's reveal but let them see the full trailer later when we go over his gameplay breakdown?" Once again, speculation, but it seems VERY plausible.

Lastly, Sakurai informed us that the Terry video was made a month in advance because of editing and translation, which sounds fair to me...but we all know that a good editor could have that video ready in a week or less and I think a translator could dub over it in probably two weeks? Regardless, having gameplay breakdowns done well enough in advance would be a way to afford more time for more character talks.

Spoiler: Part 4: How I Believe This Supports Geno's Chances And Interesting Things To Support That Claim

So now I've implied that both the decision for more DLC was made early on in the year and that negotiations could have easily already been completed for some character by the middle of this year. Now, why is specifically the middle of this year important? Well, it's in regards to a certain blue puppet boi...

and likely had both of their gameplay breakdowns recorded sometime in late May to early July. We would know this because they were essentially 100% complete in their reveals as well as Sakurai stating that the longer breakdown took about a month to prep for us. This means that the teaser footage of Terry was at that level of completion around the same time, and Terry's reveal didn't have any gameplay. Right after that announcement of Terry, we got the announcement of more DLC characters. This to me is more proof that the decision for more DLC and the negotiations for more characters happened very early on, but what I find interesting is what this means about Hero.

So, as we all know, Geno's costume didn't come with . We all worried it easily could, but it didn't. Now, knowing that Hero was recorded only a mere couple days before and that 's sneak preview footage and his reveal before that ties him into that time-frame while also suggesting possible changes to the process to make room for more negotiations...what if Geno was intended to come with Hero originally, but these early negotiations came into play and one of the characters Sakurai managed to nab was Geno? What if one of the reasons everything got so breakneck pace was that Sakurai went back to Square to get Geno and dealing with Square tends to have it's issues (though apparently, not nearly as bad as we thought, according to information about how the development process went with Hero) and it was a rush to see if Sakurai could get him or not because Hero was #2 and Geno's Mii costume was going to return with him, so it was a race to see if Sakurai could get him or not before Hero's gameplay breakdown? This would also match up with there being more than one character negotiated for by E3 and therefore matching up with that website glitch.

Here is some more interesting timing for you. had their gameplay breakdown in July and was recorded around the time-frame of May through July. What else happened in roughly in this time period? Apparently, the copyright claims that took down Beware The Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against and Armed Boss happened around this time. The whole Starling thing that has yet to amount to anything came out around this time, and remember, this ended up being something we maybe shouldn't had known about just yet. Do you guys remember how insiders and then also us knew about Dragon Quest in Smash for so many months before it was revealed? You remember how was known for a decent amount of time before their reveal? What about all the information that was said that ended up coming true between both the 'Everyone Is Here' reveal and the August Direct, but that was leaked so many months before hand? When inside information is known, it's often known well in advance before anything official comes out, or at least the trend tends to be for Smash. Either than, or it's known shortly after a leak done by Nintendo themselves. What if the Starling image was actually a hint to Geno like we all hoped in assumed, but the reason we saw nothing for so long and even still about it is because it IS for our boy Geno, but he's not coming until sometime next year, but Sabi's NoA source found out about him being successfully negotiated for shortly after it happened and for the sake of his position and the position of others (because Geno is KINDA a big deal of a reveal for the Smash community and for Sakurai, I'm sure) and thus gave is the vaguest image hint ever with no clarification?

Now, toss in the the CacoMallow video that STILL hasn't been debunked at all. You remember how the Ken debug leak kind just fell away to the wayside until Ken was revealed? How it was lost in the shuffle of other fake leaks but turned out to be the real leak? Suddenly, this is happening to the CacoMallow leak: a ton of people tried to point out why it was fake, couldn't 100% prove it, then gave up and moved to the next big leak. We've been given proof that content is completed well in advance and the Mallow hat also falls in line with another reliable leak...and when was that leak information received? In July, around the same time-frame as everything mentioned before...hmm...

There may have been more on my mind, but I will end this with saying that Geno has never truly left insider circle talk and has gained more steam as we've gone on. On top of that, people like Fatmanonice who has been involved with these circles to a certain degree have such amazing confidence in Geno's chances that he's about to drop the biggest bombshell of 2019 around the time of the VGAs. Also, the Mallow hat in that CacoMallow image looks pretty finished, so not only would I tell you to expect Geno unless something much bigger comes out to completely rule him out, but I would expect him sooner rather than later. Not FP#5, but definitely soon after.

This took some time to type out but I really wanted to get it to you guys sooner rather than later. Tell me, what do you think about all this?

EDIT: This is a huge-ass post and I'm working on making it more sectioned off with spoilers but I'm tired and I REALLY wanted to get this out now, so forgive me as I work on sectioning it off.

Interlacing quality meme posts with giant conspiracy theories that might actually be right on the money? Genobros we are in top form tonight. Everything in this makes sense to me, speaking as someone with literally 0 insider knowledge outside of what I read on here.

 

[valkiriforce]

yo! I have a message for everybody:

you may carry on now

 

[AdamBel731]

Interlacing quality meme posts with giant conspiracy theories that might actually be right on the money? Genobros we are in top form tonight. Everything in this makes sense to me, speaking as someone with literally 0 insider knowledge outside of what I read on here.

I second that. Personally, I think it is fine that we haven't been on Geno too much lately. We all know how we feel about him. Most of us know his chances are great. It is just that we're starved for information. I see no issue in not being on Geno, as we all have him at heart, yeah?

(This wasn't necessarily directed at you, I just figured some people were annoyed at the lack of Geno-specific talk lately.)

 

[ForsakenM]

Regarding when more DLC was decided, that's possible, though Imran Khan, one of the top insiders, said more DLC was decided around E3 (at 17:00 in this video):

of course, he could be wrong (he was a bit iffy and said "5 months ago" at first while thinking), and either way it's good for us I guess.

So his statement actually works with this, and allow me to explain why.

What Imran says here is what insiders have heard about...the important part about this is that insiders don't always hear about things immediately as they are decided upon or when they are just talks, but actually normally it's after the decision has already been made and work begins towards said decision.

So if in April (as he originally said five months ago before saying at E3, and five months before September is April) insiders caught a rumor that their could be more DLC coming but had no idea for sure about it until E3, that actually makes it likely that the decision was made earlier than April and that the smallest of hints got out to the deepest of insiders. However, this also works with my statement about extra characters getting negotiations finalized and being worked on somewhere around E3 because Imran basically says that was when insiders were 100% sure that there was more coming. This can also easily support Geno due to the timing.

 

[Spatulo]

I second that. Personally, I think it is fine that we haven't been on Geno too much lately. We all know how we feel about him. Most of us know his chances are great. It is just that we're starved for information. I see no issue in not being on Geno, as we all have him at heart, yeah?

(This wasn't necessarily directed at you, I just figured some people were annoyed at the lack of Geno-specific talk lately.)

The real Geno was the friends we made along the way

 

[KoopaSaki]

Whose everybody putting their bets on who the first character post fighters pass will be? I got my chips on Lloyd possibly being shown on the February Direct next year or maybe we get two fighters revealed at the VGA’s? I really hope master chief or nightmare appear in the future too along with Isaac and Shantae!

 

[MisterMike]

Hey guys, what normally takes my time this evening has been cancelled. Thus, it's speculation time!

So a buddy of mine and I were shooting the **** and we starting talking about Smash speculations and how crazy things have been for Ultimate. We started talking about things we were confident in and I spoke up about when I was saying that DLC was too ahead of schedule for nothing to be happening. For those of you who weren't around for that, here's the proof.
I find it funny that I had this stance since July and earlier, but two days later after I argued for my position again, Banjo & Kazooie were released and their gameplay breakdown confirmed my theory into fact.
Anyway, to sum up that theory as it's integral to this one, I basically argued that was done roughly around the time we knew about it and was just being polished and that was more than likely completed in January or February. This allowed enough time to finish and by E3 and that both were in the polishing stages or fully completed by that time.

So it was at this point that this friend and I started thinking about how crazy ahead they were and then I thought...wait a minute! This would explain a lot about future DLC! So, allow me to explain my theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now that we know for a fact that the DLC characters are very much completed over a month in advance before being released and that the time between completion and release is dedicated to small things like finishing touches and making sure all the other content that comes with them is finished but that MOST of that in-between times is dedicated to the next character to have them ready and keep up this breakneck pace...let us apply this to the post-pass DLC.

So we've all heard that the Fighter's Pass sold mind-gasmingly well, right? Enough to make the decision to have more of it before the pass was even done, right? So, let's apply some logic real quick to see when the decision for more DLC would have been made...

Spoiler: Part 1: The Decision For More DLC Was Made In Very Early 2019

Now some people may argue that most of the Fighter's Pass sales came from the / announcement, but I beg to differ. Think about it for a moment: the E3 Direct was on June 11th and the announcement of more DLC was on September 4th. Yet the information we got about the success of the Fighter's Pass was just recently in November, right? When you consider that and how ahead of schedule Sakurai and Co have been all year, wouldn't it make more sense for the decision for more DLC to have taken place even earlier than June or July? Also, as some people have suggested, many people bought the pass before the first announce at the VGAs. So, my theory is that the decision for more DLC was made as early as January or February, around the time Joker would have been finished.

So we all know for a fact that a crapton of people went out and pre-ordered the Fighter's Pass with their copy of Ultimate the minute the November Direct ended, right? That's just obvious, but also Joker's reveal at the VGAs most CERTAINLY made people grab the pass in droves when they went to pick up the game. That surge of pass pre-orders and then pass purchases made Nintendo A LOT OF CASH! Enough for Nintendo to tell Sakurai to be like King of Skill and 'DO IT AGAIN!' and I believe this happened in January after we got numbers on how stupidly well the game sold. This would mean that Nintendo stopped by the office and told Sakurai that they wanted more DLC characters in January or early February and thus this is where the breakneck pace for the DLC came from. If you think about it, being done RIGHT at Feb 2020 would be a perfect pace to make sure nothing is rushed, right? Getting five characters done in a little over a year is a pretty fair pace...but when you need to make even more characters after that?

This means that more negotiations are in order and meetings must be had and terms must be agreed to and companies need to have their input put in...that takes a LOT of work and a LOT of time...and so far, Sakurai hasn't promised us any content or made any announcements until it's been either mostly decided and being worked on or has been decided and is being worked on. So, negotiating and planning meetings and talking with other companies and accepting terms and making the basic designs for new characters while also making the ones you already agreed to? That explains a breakneck pace as there is no longer time to take things easy or you won't be able to meet your Feb 2020 deadline.

Now, think about this. With my theory suggesting that more DLC was approved by Nintendo in January, this means that negotiations started earlier this year. That would mean that at some point this year, it's likely that characters were agreed upon and starting being worked on, right? Well, when did we get the announcement of more characters? September 4th. This means that at least one single characters was negotiated for prior to September by Sakurai's standards, right? Now when you consider all the names being tossed around that no one has been able to say they aren't in the game but rather they aren't the fifth Fighter's Pass character and insiders are saying they've heard more than one character's name being tossed about...it would seem that more than one character has been successfully negotiated by this point and time. When you ALSO consider that many of these names have been tossed around since earlier in the year, it supports both multiple characters being successfully negotiated for as well as the decision being made earlier in the year.

Spoiler: Part 2: Some Post-Pass DLC Characters Were Negotiated Before E3

Now, for the bold claims: I believe that at least two characters were successfully negotiated for or very nearly so as early as E3. So we've already established that the talks for more DLC happened very early in the year, possibly before even Joker was finished in February. With that in mind, you remember during E3 when the website glitched and showed those two extra character slots?

What if it wasn't just a website glitch that could be dismissed, but it was that those two slots were purposely added at that time because two more characters were in the works but when they updated the website for / there was a temporary mishap and we saw something they weren't ready for us to see? Sure, this is speculation, but think about the accidental Bloody Tears leak and how Nintendo leaked their own new modes in their commercials on their YT channel and how Nintendo of Spain leaked that we were getting an SNK character. Nintendo isn't perfect and makes mistakes, so it could be just as likely that these extra spots were put in for more characters but that we were never suppose to see it until they were ready to announce it.

Spoiler: Part 3: Supporting My Ideas With The Same Evidence That Supported My Claims Of More DLC + More.

Now, here are some more things that supports these claims of post-pass characters being negotiated for and worked on earlier in the year: 's gameplay breakdown, the large gap in time between 's reveal and Joker's release, the recording time-frame of the gameplay breakdowns for and as well as the teaser footage for , and lastly Sakurai's own statement that it takes a lot of time to do translation for the gameplay breakdown videos.

You ever noticed how odd it is that 's gameplay breakdown was so over-the-top, had all the voice actors involved, and was generally just better production value overall and how that was completely lost for the rest of the Fighter's Pass? Sure, Sakurai said there were budget constraints and I believe him, but what if it was also because Joker's was done in advance and was being created before Sakurai was told to do more DLC characters? What if it was less about budget and more about time constraints because now more characters need to be negotiated for and it was just easier to manage Sakurai doing a gameplay breakdown himself and sending it in to be translated rather than pulling all the stops for big budget breakdowns? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? This also plays into Joker being revealed at the VGAs but not being released until April. Imagine that you have to get two character reveals ready for E3 but you also need to head to a couple of meetings to negotiate these other characters and you have to make sure you hit that Feb 2020 deadline or even earlier. Wouldn't it make sense to take the extra time to make those negotiations and get them done and out of the way earlier in the year? Wouldn't it make sense to cut the extra production of the character gameplay breakdowns to be able to negotiate for more characters?

Now think about and . They were both revealed in June and they had both of their videos recorded within the same week. That sounds like trying to maximize time to me to keep up with the scheduled deadline but also to afford more time for more negotiations. fits this too: remember how completed he was with just his teaser footage, but how we never got the gameplay portion of his reveal because it wasn't ready in time, so instead the put in that cute timeline reflection for home consoles that ended on the Neo Geo? Doesn't that sound like a combinations of Terry not being fully ready for his reveal as well as trying to afford more time for more character negotiations? "Oh, well every other character other than Joker who wasn't even remotely close to being done had a gameplay reveal trailer...but Terry isn't ready enough for that extensive of a reveal and I have meetings scheduled for #8 throughout the month...how about we change up Terry's reveal but let them see the full trailer later when we go over his gameplay breakdown?" Once again, speculation, but it seems VERY plausible.

Lastly, Sakurai informed us that the Terry video was made a month in advance because of editing and translation, which sounds fair to me...but we all know that a good editor could have that video ready in a week or less and I think a translator could dub over it in probably two weeks? Regardless, having gameplay breakdowns done well enough in advance would be a way to afford more time for more character talks.

Spoiler: Part 4: How I Believe This Supports Geno's Chances And Interesting Things To Support That Claim

So now I've implied that both the decision for more DLC was made early on in the year and that negotiations could have easily already been completed for some character by the middle of this year. Now, why is specifically the middle of this year important? Well, it's in regards to a certain blue puppet boi...

and likely had both of their gameplay breakdowns recorded sometime in late May to early July. We would know this because they were essentially 100% complete in their reveals as well as Sakurai stating that the longer breakdown took about a month to prep for us. This means that the teaser footage of Terry was at that level of completion around the same time, and Terry's reveal didn't have any gameplay. Right after that announcement of Terry, we got the announcement of more DLC characters. This to me is more proof that the decision for more DLC and the negotiations for more characters happened very early on, but what I find interesting is what this means about Hero.

So, as we all know, Geno's costume didn't come with . We all worried it easily could, but it didn't. Now, knowing that Hero was recorded only a mere couple days before and that 's sneak preview footage and his reveal before that ties him into that time-frame while also suggesting possible changes to the process to make room for more negotiations...what if Geno was intended to come with Hero originally, but these early negotiations came into play and one of the characters Sakurai managed to nab was Geno? What if one of the reasons everything got so breakneck pace was that Sakurai went back to Square to get Geno and dealing with Square tends to have it's issues (though apparently, not nearly as bad as we thought, according to information about how the development process went with Hero) and it was a rush to see if Sakurai could get him or not because Hero was #2 and Geno's Mii costume was going to return with him, so it was a race to see if Sakurai could get him or not before Hero's gameplay breakdown? This would also match up with there being more than one character negotiated for by E3 and therefore matching up with that website glitch.

Here is some more interesting timing for you. had their gameplay breakdown in July and was recorded around the time-frame of May through July. What else happened in roughly in this time period? Apparently, the copyright claims that took down Beware The Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against and Armed Boss happened around this time. The whole Starling thing that has yet to amount to anything came out around this time, and remember, this ended up being something we maybe shouldn't had known about just yet. Do you guys remember how insiders and then also us knew about Dragon Quest in Smash for so many months before it was revealed? You remember how was known for a decent amount of time before their reveal? What about all the information that was said that ended up coming true between both the 'Everyone Is Here' reveal and the August Direct, but that was leaked so many months before hand? When inside information is known, it's often known well in advance before anything official comes out, or at least the trend tends to be for Smash. Either than, or it's known shortly after a leak done by Nintendo themselves. What if the Starling image was actually a hint to Geno like we all hoped in assumed, but the reason we saw nothing for so long and even still about it is because it IS for our boy Geno, but he's not coming until sometime next year, but Sabi's NoA source found out about him being successfully negotiated for shortly after it happened and for the sake of his position and the position of others (because Geno is KINDA a big deal of a reveal for the Smash community and for Sakurai, I'm sure) and thus gave is the vaguest image hint ever with no clarification?

Now, toss in the the CacoMallow video that STILL hasn't been debunked at all. You remember how the Ken debug leak kind just fell away to the wayside until Ken was revealed? How it was lost in the shuffle of other fake leaks but turned out to be the real leak? Suddenly, this is happening to the CacoMallow leak: a ton of people tried to point out why it was fake, couldn't 100% prove it, then gave up and moved to the next big leak. We've been given proof that content is completed well in advance and the Mallow hat also falls in line with another reliable leak...and when was that leak information received? In July, around the same time-frame as everything mentioned before...hmm...

There may have been more on my mind, but I will end this with saying that Geno has never truly left insider circle talk and has gained more steam as we've gone on. On top of that, people like Fatmanonice who has been involved with these circles to a certain degree have such amazing confidence in Geno's chances that he's about to drop the biggest bombshell of 2019 around the time of the VGAs. Also, the Mallow hat in that CacoMallow image looks pretty finished, so not only would I tell you to expect Geno unless something much bigger comes out to completely rule him out, but I would expect him sooner rather than later. Not FP#5, but definitely soon after.

This took some time to type out but I really wanted to get it to you guys sooner rather than later. Tell me, what do you think about all this?

EDIT: This is a huge-ass post and I'm working on making it more sectioned off with spoilers but I'm tired and I REALLY wanted to get this out now, so forgive me as I work on sectioning it off.

Hey man, I think you dropped this.

 

[Rohanx17]

I've been slowly constructing my dlc slot master list and now that the insider list is mostly exposed and unlikely to slip anything else with fatman out I'll turn my attention to it again. I'm 100% at a loss who 5 is beyond guesswork so I'll probably wait until after to say anything more on the matter but depending on what gets announced at vga, the next direct, and e3 2020 go we could be in for a very interesting lineup and I'm excited to really dig into this full steam with everyone.

that said I'm almost 100% on lloyd and geno being either 6 or 7, depending on if we get a double reveal or not and to just what extent waluigi is leakbait. the idea of him being plant 2.0 to a 4 man pass is starting to grow on me.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Whose everybody putting their bets on who the first character post fighters pass will be? I got my chips on Lloyd possibly being shown on the February Direct next year or maybe we get two fighters revealed at the VGA’s? I really hope master chief or nightmare appear in the future too along with Isaac and Shantae!

Well let's think about it. If #5 is at the Game Awards, I'm sort of not expecting Post-Pass #1 to be before E3 if I'm being honest, we got fighter 2 and 3 this year there after all.

Banjo and Hero were E3-tier announcements and I imagine they'd continue that line of thinking. So it comes down to who would be worthy of taking a coveted E3 reveal. If we get two, I'd imagine they'd do one 'universally appealing' reveal and one 'hardcore fanbase' reveal ala Hero and Banjo. In that case I would honestly fallback on our leak bros: Doomguy and Geno

But if only ONE reveal is happening at E3, then I might say Doomguy

NOW, if we DO get #1 in say March, and then get 2 and 3 at E3 then I'd flip it around and say Geno in a Direct reveal. As much as we hype up our puppet-man we have to remember, he only really appeals to us, the core Smash base, and his reveal would be better suited for a Direct

 

[Rohanx17]

One thing I've mentioned before is that I think the nature of season 2's content will be changing but not exactly sure in what way. the marketing structure, axing out stages and/or the spirit board or some amalgamation of everything. I know I upset people the last time I said this but some characters really just aren't fighter's pass material in comparison to others, waluigi being a prime example since he has no game to draw spirits from and his only relevant stages are a mario kart track and game board. Music is the one constant I expect to stay no matter what though and I can't think of a single candidate that couldn't produce at least the 2 token tracks. For example waluigi has the tracks to the two aforementioned locations and they honestly rock.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

One thing I've mentioned before is that I thing the nature of season 2's content will be changing but not exactly sure in what way. the marketing structure, axing out stages and/or the spirit board or some amalgamation of everything. I know I upset people the last time I said this but some characters really just aren't fighter's pass material in comparison to others, waluigi being a prime example since he has no game to draw spirits from and his only relevant stages are a mario kart track and game board. Music is the one constant I expect to stay no matter what though and I can't think of a single candidate that couldn't produce at least the 2 token tracks. For example waluigi has the tracks to the two aforementioned locations and they honestly rock.

I can see them cutting out Spirit Boards, stages might be a tough sell for some people unless they drastically lower the price of the Fighter's Pass (Assuming they bundle them again at all)

For 25 bucks here, we got 5 characters, 5 stages, Spirit Boards, and literally over 60 additional music tracks. Talk about bang for your buck

But if they cut out Spirit Boards and even stages, charging 25 again might be pushing it (Though we all know we'd still buy it). Maybe 15 bucks would be fair

 

[Deleted member]

edit: nevermind

 

[Rohanx17]

I can see them cutting out Spirit Boards, stages might be a tough sell for some people unless they drastically lower the price of the Fighter's Pass (Assuming they bundle them again at all)

For 25 bucks here, we got 5 characters, 5 stages, Spirit Boards, and literally over 60 additional music tracks. Talk about bang for your buck

But if they cut out Spirit Boards and even stages, charging 25 again might be pushing it (Though we all know we'd still buy it). Maybe 15 bucks would be fair

Well I say that because the structure of how they sell it is one of those things that might change. They could go back to the smash 4 model, maybe the size would change or like you mentioned the price would change. We won't know until Sak breaks it down, likely next jan/feb when we get our next direct.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Assuming we're still third party, I think Crash Bandicoot is inevitable. He's a gaming icon, he's going through an amazing revival with a new game on the way, and he'd complete the "Rival Trio" with Mario and Sonic

 

[Rohanx17]

Another thing to keep in mind for the future of that timeline theory forsaken laid out is that a 1st party character requires no negotiation step so the difference from that needs to be taken into account whenever it will come up for theorizing for beyond the pass.

 

[Malo Mart]

You sir, need to please make more memes in situations akin to this one and the one with Spatulo and the magazine. Because these recent ones are genuinely funny. I enjoy the use of Dr. Doofenshmirtz.

I should take on this task as well; need to put my editing skills to good use as well. Me and Franco Geno are like the official Photoshoppers of the thread at this point, and I don't wanna be left behind his top notch work, lol!

Interlacing quality meme posts with giant conspiracy theories that might actually be right on the money? Genobros we are in top form tonight. Everything in this makes sense to me, speaking as someone with literally 0 insider knowledge outside of what I read on here.

I second that.

I third that. This thread is the quality gift that keeps on giving, much like Smash itself. And on that topic, ForsakenM , I gotta congratulate you for your texts. You and Fatman always keep me engaged with your massive essays, which isn't something I can't say very often. It's very intriguing to think Sakurai is not only way ahead of schedule with the Fighter Pass, but also got the greenlight for more fighters after it this early on and already has a slew of them negotiated or even in development right now, including our puppet himself. Still just speculation, but some good food for thought nonetheless.

Personally, I think it is fine that we haven't been on Geno too much lately. We all know how we feel about him. Most of us know his chances are great. It is just that we're starved for information. I see no issue in not being on Geno, as we all have him at heart, yeah?

(This wasn't necessarily directed at you, I just figured some people were annoyed at the lack of Geno-specific talk lately.)

I've thought about this before too. At the end of the day, I agree with you that it's fine to stray a little bit away from Geno talk at times. We all like or at least support him in here, and the conversation always tends to turn back to the boy sooner or later anyway, so it should be fine.

 

[Zeb Nasaki]

Well I say that because the structure of how they sell it is one of those things that might change. They could go back to the smash 4 model, maybe the size would change or like you mentioned the price would change. We won't know until Sak breaks it down, likely next jan/feb when we get our next direct.

Maybe some characters, like first party ones, will be free dlc released along the way of the year with the updates of the game, like mario tennis and kirby did?
Or at least they will come individually at a low price.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I dont think they'd cut spirit board and stages. It's part of the "character experience"

Plus it's kind of important if the character has no previous presence in smash. Otherwise they seem out of place, you know?

 

[Rohanx17]

I dont think they'd cut spirit board and stages. It's part of the "character experience"

Plus it's kind of important if the character has no previous presence in smash. Otherwise they seem out of place, you know?

Both plant and corrin got shortchanged on content so I think it's entirely possible. Especially if there series already has a presence in smash like you said.

Maybe some characters, like first party ones, will be free dlc released along the way of the year with the updates of the game, like mario tennis and kirby did?
Or at least they will come individually at a low price.

As much as have to go through to make these I doubt anything will be free or under priced from here on out. Plant was likely cut from base and the niche they gave him as a timed purchase bonus is gone naturally.

 

[Franco Geno]

I should take on this task as well; need to put my editing skills to good use as well. Me and Franco Geno are like the official Photoshoppers of the thread at this point, and I don't wanna be left behind his top notch work, lol!



I third that. This thread is the quality gift that keeps on giving, much like Smash itself. And on that topic, ForsakenM , I gotta congratulate you for your texts. You and Fatman always keep me engaged with your massive essays, which isn't something I can't say very often. It's very intriguing to think Sakurai is not only way ahead of schedule with the Fighter Pass, but also got the greenlight for more fighters after it this early on and already has a slew of them negotiated or even in development right now, including our puppet himself. Still just speculation, but some good food for thought nonetheless.


I've thought about this before too. At the end of the day, I agree with you that it's fine to stray a little bit away from Geno talk at times. We all like or at least support him in here, and the conversation always tends to turn back to the boy sooner or later anyway, so it should be fine.

Oh boy , the fun that you and i will have together

 

[Sigran101]

While we wait for the VGA, what is your favorite Pokemon game? mine is Withe 2, i love both the designs and the music is just fantastic and don't get me started on the region itself!

I'm gonna get roasted for this since it's a hugely unpopular opinion, but Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness for sure.

 

[Zinith]

While we wait for the VGA, what is your favorite Pokemon game? mine is Withe 2, i love both the designs and the music is just fantastic and don't get me started on the region itself!

My favorite Pokemon game is Sanic

 

[Organization XIII]

I'm gonna get roasted for this since it's a hugely unpopular opinion, but Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness for sure.

Look everyone is entitled to an opinion. People who don't like XD are absolutely entitled to be wrong if they so wish.

 

[OffBi]

Malo Mart Franco Geno may i also join the meme crusade?

 

[Franco Geno]

Malo Mart Franco Geno may i also join the meme crusade?

Of course!

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

It's midnight, at least for me. Which means...

TEN MORE DAYS! GIVE IT UP FOR 10 MORE DAYS

 

[OffBi]

Of course!

Nice, when do we begin?

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I really don't know why Fortnite guy keeps being thrown around as DLC when that troll post was debunked, but screw it, we need something new to talk about

He runs into the same problem Steve would: Building is a core part of their characters, and it severely disrupts the flow of combat in Smash. If they WERE in, their building mechanics are likely to get them banned.

For instance:
Build a walk off, bait your opponent to come near you, backthrow, profit
Build a cave of life
Build a wall to gimp recovery

You could compromise by making the structures super fragile or only last a few seconds, the former would work for wooden Fortnite builds, but the fact that they wouldn't last kind of defeats the purpose. Steve does have enough in his toolkit to make a moveset without building, but Fortnite guy's whole thing IS building, and again, if you remove building all together you remove the core identity of those two characters

So I ran into this problem when I was creating a Moveset for Crash involving his down B being the ability to place a TNT crate or nitro crate if the input was held. So how I tried to solve this was by having the crates have the ability to float above the ground or platforms. This would prevent an immediate obstruction at the ledge and makes sense as there are floating crates in the Crash games. The crates would still make getting back on the platform more difficult but not directly prevent it. I debated whether using the move over no floor/platform or at the ledge would either not work or would just cause the crate to fall or if at the ledge it would just force the crate in a position away from the ledge hovering over the ground or platform behind Crash. I do think that it'd be nice to have the option to edge guard with the move since I had Crash as being a kind of slow average fighter with meh recovery so basically I just made the move have some undesirable start up delay and end lag. I also toyed with idea of having crate explode immediately hurting Crash if placed too close to the edge but that seemed too finnicky. I ended up doing everything I said like undesirable start up delay and end lag and have the move able to be used for edge guarding but only if Crash uses it in the air by the ledge. Using the move on the ground by the ledge will put the crate hovering above and slightly behind Crash. Also, Crash could only have one crate at a time and placing another crate will cause the previous one to disappear. I think there's ways to balance these moves but it definitely takes creativity. I think there would have to be a lot of limits on the way Steve could place blocks and it would probably take a lot of difficult coding.

While we wait for the VGA, what is your favorite Pokemon game? mine is Withe 2, i love both the designs and the music is just fantastic and don't get me started on the region itself!

If I had to pick just one I would go controversial and say X. Gen 6 gets some unwarranted hate imo. Kalos is my favorite region so far and the one that felt the most lived in and the one I had the most fun exploring despite no post game. Plus all the improvements to breeding allowed me to breed my first perfect iv shiny Pokemon (accelgor) and because of those improvements, I sank the most hours into that game breeding and trying different strategies in battle Maison singles and doubles. This is also when I completed a living Dex which I continued in sun/moon (which had my least favorite region but further improved breeding so at least it had something). Oddly enough, gen 6 has overall probably my least favorite series of Pokemon though. I love the Pokemon designs from gens 4, 5, and 8 especially. But X, despite having no postgame, was a game I really felt like I could sink hours into without batting an eye because the whole wide world of breeding was now open to me. In gen 5 I did the battle train with my friend and we would do doubles and I thought my perfect 2 iv chandelier with heatwave and hp ice was the best thing ever cuz getting IVs was such a pain before gen 6.