Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

Zack E.

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Since things have slowed to a crawl around here, I might have something that could bring some light to this place.
This is super unlikely, and you can call me crazy, but....

Geno fits the stats of Brave.

Let's see what we have:

- Height of 13.
Slightly shorter than Mario (14), same size as Ness/Young Link/Lucas/Villager. Geno is canonically just a smidge shorter than Mario.

- Weight of 101.
Slightly heavier than Mario (98), weight is closest to Cloud and Mii Swordsman (100). Being made out of almost entirely wood, Geno would weigh slightly more.

- Relatively fast and floaty for their weight.
"Brave" has a surprisingly low gravity spec of 0.09 and a max run speed of 1.74, in between Kirby and Young Link. Odd, no?
...Do you see where I'm leading this?

- Slides a short distance when turning around from a dash.
This is a weird specification for a character. It looks like the skid is on Luigi levels of slippery. Wood has a tendency to skid when travelling fast. This is the longest shot of the theory, but if anything it does help.

- Labelled as "fighter_skin_kind_bio" within the param data.
This is where things get tricky. There are only two labels for this spec: bio or kikai. Kikai is only used for these four characters:
- Samus
- R.O.B.
- Mega Man
- Dark Samus
(The only odd one out of the group, most likely in here since she's an echo of Samus.)
It seems to just be a general "metal" specifier. Everyone in the bio group is, as you may have guessed, biological material. Humans, animals, plants.
Wood is a biological material.

The only thing that I can't seem to work around is the naming convention. If it is Geno, why codename him as brave?

Just something speculative to put into your heads.

View attachment 186395
Huh, I never thought of Geno as a heavy character. I think he would lean towards being a lighter character. That's the only thing stopping me from thinking Geno could be the brave character.

I'm leaning more towards it being Sans, but it could be Geno. After all, if I'm not mistaken, PP is actually heavier than Ridley, so maybe some characters are heavier than we thought.

And would anyone have ever guessed that Paccku would be referring to Piranha Plant? Maybe brave is a character no one would think the codename has a hint to.

Certainly interesting though
 

fleshdude.gov

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Brave talk? Some people suggest that the code name is a little too on the nose. "Jack" was in the game's code back in November but we actually managed to keep that a secret. At the time, nobody knew what it was. It wasn't until the VGAs that people were like "ooooh, I get it" and made the connection between Joker and the code name (Jack referring to either cards like Joker or Jack Frost, Atlus's mascot). "Brave" is a little too upfront especially since this is basically a direct translation of what the main Dragon Quest Heros are called in Japan. On this train of thought, if Pirhana Plant wasn't revealed, we'd all probably be scratching our heads about the code name Paccku. In comparison, the code name "Brave" is a little too obvious which may mean Nintendo may be up to shenanigans and it may be a red herring.
You guys thought the "Jack" codename meant it was Raiden because his name is Jack, right?
Calling Erdrick "Brave" (Yuusha) is on that same level of on-the-nose-ness.


You guys are taking the stats way too seriously. As was previously stated, it is subject to change, as it has been the case with other files.
Doubling the character's height like that would require them to totally remodel the character to fit the height adjustment; otherwise it'd look stretched. Not something I think would be happening.


Yeah, it's really weird. Either way, everyone agrees that the character doesn't move like someone in full armor like adult Erdrick and most people have noted that the character moves like someone with magical/psychic properties. The slide is especially notable because it's so distinctive and unlike a sword fighter. Like I mentioned earlier, these are reasons why people are starting to think something's off and if it's still a DQ character, it's either kid Erdrick or, much less likely, a chibi version of another DQ character.
I've personally been entertaining the idea that Slime is the character and Erdrick is coming as a boss as a sort of inversion of the typical RPG battle. That's only if every DLC character is coming with a boss, though.


I guess, though technically the monsters don't have a whole lot of determination, 'cause they'd melt if they did.

Would Frisk be heavy? I dunno.
Frisk would fall pretty quickly, if they're working like they are in-battle.
Also, Bravery is one of the SOUL color's attributes.....


Really, I think this will come down to whether the Square DLC rep was chosen by Nintendo first, or if it was Square's choice in exchange for Cloud in the base game of Ultimate.
 
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You know what's my problem, deep inside my heart I absolutely want it to be Geno. However, I managed to convince myself that is someone else because it feels it's the safest way to stop raising my expectations. This said I thought it was Geno since the Size data.
March is a perfect month to release DLC Fighter N°2, What about March the 9th.
Incidentally, March has releases for Kirby's Extra Epic Yarn and Yoshi's Crafted World at the opposite ends of the month. What if an announcement is sandwiched between them?

Edit: Huh, looks like the Agumon thread leans on even him possibly being the Brave character.
 
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childishgamgeno

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Geno: JUST PUT HIM IN
Not to be THAT a guy, (even though I LOVE the theory that Geno is brave, gonna see how I can follow that up)

But, why wouldn’t they put his file name like “jino” like they did with the Spirits leak? Maybe it’s a different team?
 

Zack E.

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Not to be THAT a guy, (even though I LOVE the theory that Geno is brave, gonna see how I can follow that up)

But, why wouldn’t they put his file name like “jino” like they did with the Spirits leak? Maybe it’s a different team?
That would make it way too obvious that it is him. The purpose of the code name is more likely to hide who the character is, rather than hint at who the character is.

Not saying it's 100% Geno, but just putting this out there
 
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To be honest, and this isn't to speak on whether Nintendo/Square/whoever is doing this, but just speaking on what I would do, but if a game developer or their team wanted to hide a character but had to put data in for them before release (which I don't understand why they keep doing, but I assume there has to be some method to the madness that a guy who doesn't make games yet just doesn't understand.), why not name the data for the character they don't want leaked something not even remotely related to the character. Say Jibanyan was the next Smash character, how would they throw everyone for a loop without technically lying? Name the character data something irrelevant to anything related to the character or series. Name Jibanyan's data "Potato" "Socket_wrench" "Antidisestablishmentarianism" "Nice_Try_Jerkjobs_you're_not_leaking_this_character", anything that doesn't have anything to do with the character.
 
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Slender

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To be honest, and this isn't to speak on whether Nintendo/Square/whoever is doing this, but just speaking on what I would do, but if a game developer or their team wanted to hide a character but had to put data in for them before release (which I don't understand why they keep doing, but I assume there has to be some method to the madness that a guy who doesn't make games yet just doesn't understand.), why not name the data for the character they don't want leaked something not even remotely related to the character. Say Jibanyan was the next Smash character, how would they throw everyone for a loop without technically lying? Name the character data something irrelevant to anything related to the character or series. Name Jibanyan's data "Potato" "Socket_wrench" "Antidisestablishmentarianism" "Nice_Try_Jerkjobs_you're_not_leaking_this_character", anything that doesn't have anything to do with the character.
I'm glad someone brought this up, because there was one piece of my theory that I left out, simply because I would be pulling a few muscles by reaching this far.

Erdrick could be a red herring.

Thinking about it, if "brave" really is a Square representative, then this would explain why PolarPanda PolarPanda had speculative rumors surrounding Geno with respectable and seemingly valid sources, while insiders like Vergeben are crying out that Erdrick or some Dragon Quest character is coming. There's only one real outcome from this, and that would mean the other was used as a red herring.

Geno was set into motion, but when word about him got out, they used Erdrick as a way to keep track of where the information is coming from and hide the real DLC character.

Or Erdrick was actually the character, and rumor of Geno was just a red herring, which seems to fail in it's motives considering everyone practically thinks Erdrick is on his way.

Am I digging way too deep into this just to find some hope for Geno? Maybe. The future will tell us eventually.
 

Fatmanonice

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Not to be THAT a guy, (even though I LOVE the theory that Geno is brave, gonna see how I can follow that up)

But, why wouldn’t they put his file name like “jino” like they did with the Spirits leak? Maybe it’s a different team?
Like we've been saying, it would have been too obvious. Joker was only figured out after the fact because the clue of "Jack" was so estoteric. Brave is a literal translation and even the wording used in DQ merchandise in Japan.
 

domriver

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I'm glad someone brought this up, because there was one piece of my theory that I left out, simply because I would be pulling a few muscles by reaching this far.

Erdrick could be a red herring.

Thinking about it, if "brave" really is a Square representative, then this would explain why PolarPanda PolarPanda had speculative rumors surrounding Geno with respectable and seemingly valid sources, while insiders like Vergeben are crying out that Erdrick or some Dragon Quest character is coming. There's only one real outcome from this, and that would mean the other was used as a red herring.

Geno was set into motion, but when word about him got out, they used Erdrick as a way to keep track of where the information is coming from and hide the real DLC character.

Or Erdrick was actually the character, and rumor of Geno was just a red herring, which seems to fail in it's motives considering everyone practically thinks Erdrick is on his way.

Am I digging way too deep into this just to find some hope for Geno? Maybe. The future will tell us eventually.
Very interesting. hmmmmm
 

SSGuy

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I'm glad someone brought this up, because there was one piece of my theory that I left out, simply because I would be pulling a few muscles by reaching this far.

Erdrick could be a red herring.

Thinking about it, if "brave" really is a Square representative, then this would explain why PolarPanda PolarPanda had speculative rumors surrounding Geno with respectable and seemingly valid sources, while insiders like Vergeben are crying out that Erdrick or some Dragon Quest character is coming. There's only one real outcome from this, and that would mean the other was used as a red herring.

Geno was set into motion, but when word about him got out, they used Erdrick as a way to keep track of where the information is coming from and hide the real DLC character.

Or Erdrick was actually the character, and rumor of Geno was just a red herring, which seems to fail in it's motives considering everyone practically thinks Erdrick is on his way.

Am I digging way too deep into this just to find some hope for Geno? Maybe. The future will tell us eventually.
If anything, we need someone to be 'that guy' and get our optimism up. Having realistic expectations is one thing, but giving up is something I refuse to do. I appreciate the optimistic point of view you have given regarding Brave's stats
 

Zack E.

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If anything, we need someone to be 'that guy' and get our optimism up. Having realistic expectations is one thing, but giving up is something I refuse to do. I appreciate the optimistic point of view you have given regarding Brave's stats
I will be another one of 'those guys'

GENO IS IN
 
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Brave talk? Some people suggest that the code name is a little too on the nose. "Jack" was in the game's code back in November but we actually managed to keep that a secret. At the time, nobody knew what it was. It wasn't until the VGAs that people were like "ooooh, I get it" and made the connection between Joker and the code name (Jack referring to either cards like Joker or Jack Frost, Atlus's mascot). "Brave" is a little too upfront especially since this is basically a direct translation of what the main Dragon Quest Heros are called in Japan. On this train of thought, if Pirhana Plant wasn't revealed, we'd all probably be scratching our heads about the code name Paccku. In comparison, the code name "Brave" is a little too obvious which may mean Nintendo may be up to shenanigans and it may be a red herring.
Can you disclose what the original predictions for "Jack" were?
 

MattX20

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I've been looking at Erdrick's character information, and the character is supposed to be 16 years old. It's kinda hard to imagine a 16 year old person would be shorter than Mario going off those stats, and it's not like Ness from the Earthbound series who is a kid, Erdrick from the game he was playable in was very much a teenager. So, the height aspect really doesn't add up here.
 

GoodGrief741

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I've been looking at Erdrick's character information, and the character is supposed to be 16 years old. It's kinda hard to imagine a 16 year old person would be shorter than Mario going off those stats, and it's not like Ness from the Earthbound series who is a kid, Erdrick from the game he was playable in was very much a teenager. So, the height aspect really doesn't add up here.
Ness and Lucas are both 13-14 years old.
 

Fatmanonice

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I've been looking at Erdrick's character information, and the character is supposed to be 16 years old. It's kinda hard to imagine a 16 year old person would be shorter than Mario going off those stats, and it's not like Ness from the Earthbound series who is a kid, Erdrick from the game he was playable in was very much a teenager. So, the height aspect really doesn't add up here.
This is actually fairly relevant when you compare the ages of the characters who have similar body proportions in Smash:

Marth- 16
Roy-15
Ike- 17-20
Lucina- 15-18
Chrom- 18
Shulk- 15
Cloud- 21
Link- 16-20

All these characters have fairly similar heights. This is why "Hero" Erdrick is being increasingly ruled out because it would only work if they went with a chibi version of the character.
 
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Back to Mario & Luigi, I honestly wonder if BIS's poor sales on a dying system won't make Nintendo think "welp, that's it, no one cares about M&L anymore, let's cancel it!".

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...rk_early_mario_and_luigi_3ds_sales_disappoint

This is actually fairly relevant when you compare the ages of the characters who have similar body proportions in Smash:

Marth- 16
Roy-15
Ike- 17-20
Lucina- 15-18
Chrom- 18
Shulk- 15
Cloud- 21
Link- 16-20

All these characters have fairly similar heights. This is why "Hero" Erdrick is being increasingly ruled out because it would only work if they went with a chibi version of the character.
And by proxy, that alone would be enough to disprove the 5Chan leak, which hinges on the fact that Eddy's alts would be Anlucia and the Luminary, yet those two are decidedly not super-deformed.
 
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Looma

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Ness and Lucas are both 13-14 years old.
Something to keep in mind: Lucas is 13, Red is 11
Hell Kumatora's an adult and she's not depicted as being much taller than Lucas.
Mother characters aren't proportioned like everyone else due to it's very distinct art style. In fact they generally appear very short in crossovers due to the clash. They don't play by the same rules that everyone else does. Kid Erdrick is definitely a pipsqueak but
this dude's proportions look more similar to (and I'm spitballin here) Young Link than any Mother character, who is Mario height.
 
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A character that predominantly fights with a hat would be pretty funny. Give her the purse and umbrella from the original arcade game as tilts or smash attacks too. Like I've said in the past, I want Pauline to become a mainstay because I want them to address her past relationship with Mario in a future game. They sort of just settled Daisy by making her Luigi's squeeze but I want to see what they do, especially if they decide to go into in one of the RPGs. I don't know why but having Mario's obviously hotter and more accomplished exe as an option is just hilarious to me.
I believe Pauline will become the next Rosalina and will pop up in almost all the future Mario spin off titles which, will eventually get her into Smash.
 

MattX20

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Something to keep in mind: Lucas is 13, Red is 11
Hell Kumatora's an adult and she's not depicted as being much taller than Lucas.
Mother characters aren't proportioned like everyone else due to it's very distinct art style. In fact they generally appear very short in crossovers due to the clash. They don't play by the same rules that everyone else does. Kid Erdrick is definitely a pipsqueak but
this dude's proportions look more similar to (and I'm spitballin here) Young Link than any Mother character, who is Mario height.
And even then, the character stats make it seem less likley given that the character is floaty, and most depictions of DQ characters are given typically more realistic teenager/adult proportions. And it's not like Megaman who is deliberately stout to more closely reference the NES games, all they had for DQ 3 were overworld sprites
 

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Slender had some interesting observations about the frame data last night and he said he would post more specifics later but here are some things I was able to find:

When it comes to aerial landing lag for Brave, nair matches Zelda, Fair matches Luigi, Mii Brawler, Ganondorf, Peach/Daisy, and Ivysaur, Bair matches Dedede, Falco, Corrin, ROB, and Pac-Man, Uair matches Wolf, Falcon, the Belmonts, Pac-Man, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman, and Dair matches Wario, Dedede, Little Mac, Olimar, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman.

Why is this significant? Because Brave's frame data isn't like other swordsmen in the game. Even "slow" Swordsmen have quick aerials as defining characteristics. Consider the following:

Ike/Brave:

N- 8/15
F- 14/13
B- 11/13
U-9/10
D- 14/18

Link/Brave

N- 6/15
F- 11/13
B- 6/13
U- 14/10
D- 19/18

Shulk/Brave:

N- 6/15
F- 10/ 13
B- 11/13
U- 9/ 10
D- 14/18

It's even more notable when you add the Marth Quadruplets and Metaknight. Now compare to some zoners in the game:

Villager/Brave:

N- 9/15
F- 15/13
B- 15/13
U- 13/10
D-13/ 18

Zelda/Brave:

N- 15/15
F- 15/13
B- 12/13
U- 16/10
D- 16/18

Megaman/Brave:

N- 25/15
F- 10/13
B- 20/13
U- 20/10
D- 15/18

Mii Gunner/Brave:

N- 11/15
F- 12/13
B- 11/13
U- 13/10
D- 17/18

Based on these observations along with what was brought up yesterday like Brave's airspeed, fast fall, and strange slide, Brave does not play like a swordsman, he plays like a zoner and follows their characteristics very similarly. The swordsman Brave shares the most similarities with is Mii Swordsmen, the outlier of the sword users. His strong similarities with Mii Gunner and Pac-Man are especially notable, as they are some of the heaviest zoners in the game. I feel like this adds more evidence to the pile that we've been bamboozled to some degree and suggests a possible number of things:

1. The character is Kid Erdrick but plays wildly different than any other swordsman in the game, nixxing a ton of intel swearing on adult Erdrick with a female ALTsl.

2. Brave is an entirely different character. Erdrick may still be in the game but Brave isn't him. Once again, this means more bad intel and torpedos most of the leaks floating around.

Either way, this suggests that there's a strong possibility that something is wrong about the information being put out and wires are getting crossed.
 

faygoshill

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Slender had some interesting observations about the frame data last night and he said he would post more specifics later but here are some things I was able to find:

When it comes to aerial landing lag for Brave, nair matches Zelda, Fair matches Luigi, Mii Brawler, Ganondorf, Peach/Daisy, and Ivysaur, Bair matches Dedede, Falco, Corrin, ROB, and Pac-Man, Uair matches Wolf, Falcon, the Belmonts, Pac-Man, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman, and Dair matches Wario, Dedede, Little Mac, Olimar, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman.

Why is this significant? Because Brave's frame data isn't like other swordsmen in the game. Even "slow" Swordsmen have quick aerials as defining characteristics. Consider the following:

Ike/Brave:

N- 8/15
F- 14/13
B- 11/13
U-9/10
D- 14/18

Link/Brave

N- 6/15
F- 11/13
B- 6/13
U- 14/10
D- 19/18

Shulk/Brave:

N- 6/15
F- 10/ 13
B- 11/13
U- 9/ 10
D- 14/18

It's even more notable when you add the Marth Quadruplets and Metaknight. Now compare to some zoners in the game:

Villager/Brave:

N- 9/15
F- 15/13
B- 15/13
U- 13/10
D-13/ 18

Zelda/Brave:

N- 15/15
F- 15/13
B- 12/13
U- 16/10
D- 16/18

Megaman/Brave:

N- 25/15
F- 10/13
B- 20/13
U- 20/10
D- 15/18

Mii Gunner/Brave:

N- 11/15
F- 12/13
B- 11/13
U- 13/10
D- 17/18

Based on these observations along with what was brought up yesterday like Brave's airspeed, fast fall, and strange slide, Brave does not play like a swordsman, he plays like a zoner and follows their characteristics very similarly. The swordsman Brave shares the most similarities with is Mii Swordsmen, the outlier of the sword users. His strong similarities with Mii Gunner and Pac-Man are especially notable, as they are some of the heaviest zoners in the game. I feel like this adds more evidence to the pile that we've been bamboozled to some degree and suggests a possible number of things:

1. The character is Kid Erdrick but plays wildly different than any other swordsman in the game, nixxing a ton of intel swearing on adult Erdrick with a female ALTsl.

2. Brave is an entirely different character. Erdrick may still be in the game but Brave isn't him. Once again, this means more bad intel and torpedos most of the leaks floating around.

Either way, this suggests that there's a strong possibility that something is wrong about the information being put out and wires are getting crossed.
brave is lightning mcqueen

he's in
 
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Since things have slowed to a crawl around here, I might have something that could bring some light to this place.
This is super unlikely, and you can call me crazy, but....

Geno fits the stats of Brave.

Let's see what we have:

- Height of 13.
Slightly shorter than Mario (14), same size as Ness/Young Link/Lucas/Villager. Geno is canonically just a smidge shorter than Mario.

- Weight of 101.
Slightly heavier than Mario (98), weight is closest to Cloud and Mii Swordsman (100). Being made out of almost entirely wood, Geno would weigh slightly more.

- Relatively fast and floaty for their weight.
"Brave" has a surprisingly low gravity spec of 0.09 and a max run speed of 1.74, in between Kirby and Young Link. Odd, no?
...Do you see where I'm leading this?

- Slides a short distance when turning around from a dash.
This is a weird specification for a character. It looks like the skid is on Luigi levels of slippery. Wood has a tendency to skid when travelling fast. This is the longest shot of the theory, but if anything it does help.

- Labelled as "fighter_skin_kind_bio" within the param data.
This is where things get tricky. There are only two labels for this spec: bio or kikai. Kikai is only used for these four characters:
- Samus
- R.O.B.
- Mega Man
- Dark Samus
(The only odd one out of the group, most likely in here since she's an echo of Samus.)
It seems to just be a general "metal" specifier. Everyone in the bio group is, as you may have guessed, biological material. Humans, animals, plants.
Wood is a biological material.

The only thing that I can't seem to work around is the naming convention. If it is Geno, why codename him as brave?

Just something speculative to put into your heads.

View attachment 186395
I want to believe.... but.... I don't see it.

I just can't imagine Geno even being Mario's weight, much less heavier; he's clearly designed as a glass cannon in SMRPG.

Plus, that run speed is rather low, considering he's the fastest character in SMRPG, and yet, he's slower than Mario and Bowser.

And I can't picture him falling slowly or sliding so much after dashing.
 
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Fatmanonice

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The plot thickens...Maybe this character's stats were all made up just to screw with people.
Not likely. Pirhana Plant's values were attached to other characters too and the basic character concept plays out exactly like the trailer: goofy range and strength but laughably bad lag on a lot of moves and the slowest character in the game with a lot of attacks. Even if the numbers are changed, the basic concept of the character is pretty much mapped out. Here's more examples to further illustrate this:

Olimar/Brave:

Nair: 13/15
Fair: 9/13
Bair: 9/13
Uair: 18/10
Dair: 18/18

Pac-Man/Brave

Nair: 7 /15
Fair: 10/13
Bair: 13 /13
Uair: 10 /10
Dair: 12 /18

King Dedede/Brave

Nair: 10/15
Fair: 18/13
Bair: 13/13
Uair: 13/10
Dair: 18/18

Robin/Brave:
Nair: 11/15
Fair: 11/13
Bair: 11/13
Uair: 11/10
Dair: 16/18

Again, note the similarities between the zoners and how he's notably slower with aerial attacks than the literal slowest swordsman in the game.
 
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link2702

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So now they datamined more and found the characters stats are in?

I’m wondering if Nintendo accidentally left some sort of definitive proof like they did roy and ryu in 4....

Probably not, but then we’d have peace of mind already....
 
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I want to believe.... but.... I don't see it.

I just can't imagine Geno even being Mario's weight, much less heavier; he's clearly designed as a glass cannon in SMRPG.

Plus, that run speed is rather low, considering he's the fastest character in SMRPG, and yet, he's slower than Mario and Bowser.
Well, Smash isn't always canon to a characters stats from their games. :ultkrool: is a lot bigger and faster in the DKC games.
 

Rikarte

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Tinfoil hat theory time! What if Brave turns out to be the Monster Hunter? Valor Style, known as Brave Style in Japan, was one of the most notable additions in Monster Hunter XX, a game that just recently received a western release. This could also explain the long landing lag as the series is know for its slow combat and long animations.
...well, if those stats are anything to go by anyway. Can someone explain why everyone is so sure that those aren't just placeholders?
 
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There is a difference between scaling someone up or down to fit the rest of the roster and completely changing how they work.
:ultridley: is a better example for that. I think for the development team and Sakurai, it was the difficulty in capturing :ultridley:'s moveset right along with the right size to do that moveset justice to finally get him in.
 
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Tinfoil hat theory time! What if Brave turns out to be the Monster Hunter? Valor Style, known as Brave Style in Japan, was one of the most notable additions in Monster Hunter XX, a game that just recently received a western release. This could also explain the long landing lag as the series is know for its slow combat and long animations.
...well, if those stats are anything to go by anyway. Can someone explain why everyone is so sure that those aren't just placeholders?
Hardly an expert but the best reasoning I can come up with would be that if you're putting in "placeholders" you don't go out of your way to make them actual numbers, instead most likely you'd just grab the numbers off someone else and drop them there if you really needed to have numbers somewhere but they couldn't be the actual numbers.
 

Rikarte

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Hardly an expert but the best reasoning I can come up with would be that if you're putting in "placeholders" you don't go out of your way to make them actual numbers, instead most likely you'd just grab the numbers off someone else and drop them there if you really needed to have numbers somewhere but they couldn't be the actual numbers.
Ohhh, I guess that makes sense. Thank you.
 

Fatmanonice

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I want to believe.... but.... I don't see it.

I just can't imagine Geno even being Mario's weight, much less heavier; he's clearly designed as a glass cannon in SMRPG.

Plus, that run speed is rather low, considering he's the fastest character in SMRPG, and yet, he's slower than Mario and Bowser.

And I can't picture him falling slowly or sliding so much after dashing.
Mario's run speed is 1.76 and Brave's is 1.74 so it's not a huge stretch. In comparison, Bowser's is 1.971, who was by far the slowest character in SMRPG. The weight isn't terribly off either. Mario is 98, Brave is 101. Weight is also pretty inconsistent in Smash too. Charizard is heavier than Ridley and Mewtwo, for example. Megaman is literally made of metal and yet Captain Falcon and the Belmonts are heavier than him. Ike and Ridley are the same weight. Keep in mind that Brave is still shorter than Mario too. As for the character concept, a super fast zoning character would be broken for obvious reasons, even if they were light. Imagine Megaman, Mii Gunner, or Villager with double their speed and you'll realize how bull**** that would be, especially with Brave being a floaty fast faller. I feel like if this really were Geno, the adjustments would have been done for the sake of balance because "canon" Geno would probably be a busted mess.
 
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Zack E.

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Slender had some interesting observations about the frame data last night and he said he would post more specifics later but here are some things I was able to find:

When it comes to aerial landing lag for Brave, nair matches Zelda, Fair matches Luigi, Mii Brawler, Ganondorf, Peach/Daisy, and Ivysaur, Bair matches Dedede, Falco, Corrin, ROB, and Pac-Man, Uair matches Wolf, Falcon, the Belmonts, Pac-Man, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman, and Dair matches Wario, Dedede, Little Mac, Olimar, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman.

Why is this significant? Because Brave's frame data isn't like other swordsmen in the game. Even "slow" Swordsmen have quick aerials as defining characteristics. Consider the following:

Ike/Brave:

N- 8/15
F- 14/13
B- 11/13
U-9/10
D- 14/18

Link/Brave

N- 6/15
F- 11/13
B- 6/13
U- 14/10
D- 19/18

Shulk/Brave:

N- 6/15
F- 10/ 13
B- 11/13
U- 9/ 10
D- 14/18

It's even more notable when you add the Marth Quadruplets and Metaknight. Now compare to some zoners in the game:

Villager/Brave:

N- 9/15
F- 15/13
B- 15/13
U- 13/10
D-13/ 18

Zelda/Brave:

N- 15/15
F- 15/13
B- 12/13
U- 16/10
D- 16/18

Megaman/Brave:

N- 25/15
F- 10/13
B- 20/13
U- 20/10
D- 15/18

Mii Gunner/Brave:

N- 11/15
F- 12/13
B- 11/13
U- 13/10
D- 17/18

Based on these observations along with what was brought up yesterday like Brave's airspeed, fast fall, and strange slide, Brave does not play like a swordsman, he plays like a zoner and follows their characteristics very similarly. The swordsman Brave shares the most similarities with is Mii Swordsmen, the outlier of the sword users. His strong similarities with Mii Gunner and Pac-Man are especially notable, as they are some of the heaviest zoners in the game. I feel like this adds more evidence to the pile that we've been bamboozled to some degree and suggests a possible number of things:

1. The character is Kid Erdrick but plays wildly different than any other swordsman in the game, nixxing a ton of intel swearing on adult Erdrick with a female ALTsl.

2. Brave is an entirely different character. Erdrick may still be in the game but Brave isn't him. Once again, this means more bad intel and torpedos most of the leaks floating around.

Either way, this suggests that there's a strong possibility that something is wrong about the information being put out and wires are getting crossed.
I'm heavily doubting that it is Kid Eddy because the brave character is floaty.

The character has similarities between zoners like Pacman and Mii Gunner.

For reference, what are the weights of Ness and Lucas? Might not mean much since Mother characters, like Looma Looma mentioned, are proportioned differently than other characters, but just curious
 
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