Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

Ovaltine

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Banjo & Kazooie weren't necessarily my most wanted, I mainly only started going there for leak discussion. Never even played a Banjo-Kazooie game.

So I have no idea how they suddenly became my third favorite newcomer behind K. Rool and Piranha Plant.
It's Rareware fever, I tells ya. It gets even the best of us...

... which reminds me that I need to replay B-K today for the first time in a few years, hoooo...
 
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I certainly hope so. I refuse to let our support for Geno die out if he's deconfirmed. After all, Smash is but one battle. There is also the possibility of future DLC and other Mario games, namely future Mario RPGs. We have to fight louder and harder than ever before now.

NEVER GIVE UP! Even if he doesn't make it to Ultimate, there's SO much opportunity for us to see Geno return! WE MUST ALWAYS LOOK TO THE FUTURE! Let's go, pals!
Let's push to get him in Mario Kart next. Ooh, or Mario Party.
 
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idk, he'd be cool to have in something like Mario Kart or Mario Party but it was rumored that Sakurai told Retro Studios to hold off on K. Rool in the Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze port to Switch so he could have dibs on his return, so if Geno were to get added to Ultimate I feel it would be a similar case here.

Just add Geno to Smash first and foremost. All the pieces will fall into place for other appearances after that.
 

Dorayaki

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The FPS and Survival Horror are the last big genres not represented in Smash (or least ones that would work in Smash).
Finish the Fighter Pass off with those and then make the fan favorite Geno the final bonus fighter. It makes sense to me. Admittedly, the Geno part is something I'm not as confident in, but who knows.
Duck Hunt is FPS?

It would have been really nice if Geno was added in other games if popularity really worked out.

idk, he'd be cool to have in something like Mario Kart or Mario Party but it was rumored that Sakurai told Retro Studios to hold off on K. Rool in the Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze port to Switch so he could have dibs on his return, so if Geno were to get added to Ultimate I feel it would be a similar case here.

Just add Geno to Smash first and foremost. All the pieces will fall into place for other appearances after that.
The general difference is that KRool is already considered a main character, which is why fans can ask for his inclusion in some other games.

But as for Geno, he is not part of the Mario main cast. Plus right issues, it doubles the difficulty for him to fit in without a formal return in Mario games.
 
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Maxie

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Let's say Geno is DLC in the next Mario Kart title and he gets his own vehicle with him. Would it be a standard kart, a bike or a sports bike?

As for him in Smash, I'll take anything at this point. Whether that be him as a character or the Mii costume.
 
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Let's say Geno is DLC in the next Mario Kart title and he gets his own vehicle with him. Would it be a standard kart, a bike or a sports bike?

As for him in Smash, I'll take anything at this point. Whether that be him as a character or the Mii costume.
Kart so it can be a rainbow truck called the Star Roader.
 

Ovaltine

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Let's say Geno is DLC in the next Mario Kart title and he gets his own vehicle with him. Would it be a standard kart, a bike or a sports bike?

As for him in Smash, I'll take anything at this point. Whether that be him as a character or the Mii costume.
It's gonna be a bike of some kind to follow the trend of cool space people with cool bikes.

It isn't even a trend, it's just Rosalina, but I don't care. Geno Needs A Bike™.
 

Jazzy Jinx

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To be honest, I've become pretty ambivalent towards Geno's inclusion or lack thereof in the game. In spite of that though, I've run into an interesting conundrum.

Who's the obvious choice for DLC at this point?

Dragon Quest getting in was a given; it's a massive franchise in need of more Western support and Square wants their piece of pie. Banjo-Kazooie is ballot stuff + Sakurai bias. The Microsoft relationship is an obvious perk but it's also obvious they took the fans into consideration, not just their business. So in my opinion the final two characters have to make sense from either a business perspective or ballot/Sakurai bias perspective.

Maybe Crash/Spyro? But that begs the question if Banjo opened the floodgates for Western IPs or not. They're certainly getting a lot of love on the Switch right now. A smartphone character could make sense since Japanese people are playing more smartphone games rather than console games at this point but I don't know enough about that scene to know who would be the obvious pick from there. Rex/Pyra could still make sense since they were seemingly excluded due to time constraints and Xenoblade could use the boost in promotion if Nintendo wants to maintain it as a successful IP. I really don't think Mii costumes or any other arbitrary rules are going to get in the way between a business and their money. But hey, that 1st (2nd?) party status and Mii costume could be an albatross over their head.

There are still some gaming icons left that are obtainable: Master Chief, Tifa, Chun Li, Hiehachi, Lara Croft, Resident Evil... Doomguy... In terms of sheer giant impact and wow factor I'd probably pick Master Chief (perhaps the biggest Microsoft icon) and Lara Croft (perhaps the most popular female video game character). But we don't have any indication that they're on Sakurai's radar.

So yeah... I can't really seem to vet who seems obvious at this point. When it comes to who is on Sakurai's radar though, and when we look at who was massively popular in the ballot (presumably) that hasn't been included yet, it's obviously Geno.

That doesn't mean he's getting in, but if I had to pick Sakurai's brain right now and where his mind could be at, Banjo is a pretty big red flag for me. It means the business relationships and practices are valued but not necessarily the sole motivating factor. The ballot is still being used as a guiding light of sorts as well as Sakurai's own bias (since Banjo fulfills a roster spot that was contemplated back in Melee).

It's not hopeless, guys.
 

link2702

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Idk, if it's been discussed yet, but I just checked the website and saw FOUR ? slots instead of two...

So, basically... what? O_O
Mobile or desktop?

I noticed someone on ign said the same thing a few days ago. Though on my phone it shows just two.

I wouldn’t jump to too many conclusions yet, it might just be a sloppy edit of the site by one of the programmers.
 

ShotoStar 2

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Idk, if it's been discussed yet, but I just checked the website and saw FOUR ? slots instead of two...

So, basically... what? O_O
Yeah it's more than likely a glitch it doesn't appear for me and I even tried multiple languages, Nothing. It still shows two slots.

If it is for additional characters then that's great but I doubt it's nothing more than a glitch.
 

GoodGrief741

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Duck Hunt is FPS?

It would have been really nice if Geno was added in other games if popularity really worked out.


The general difference is that KRool is already considered a main character, which is why fans can ask for his inclusion in some other games.

But as for Geno, he is not part of the Mario main cast. Plus right issues, it doubles the difficulty for him to fit in without a formal return in Mario games.
You made me realize that Duck Hunt is technically an FPS and I'll be eternally grateful to you for it.
Let's say Geno is DLC in the next Mario Kart title and he gets his own vehicle with him. Would it be a standard kart, a bike or a sports bike?

As for him in Smash, I'll take anything at this point. Whether that be him as a character or the Mii costume.
Geno has some serious biker energy. Slap some leather on him, he's done.
This joke did not get the appreciation it deserves.
 

owjies

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With the reveals of Joker, Hero, and Banjo, I think this 2017 Famitsu top 100 list is worth revisiting. The top two games on that list by a long shot are Persona 5 (835) and Dragonquest 3 (612). The third place slot went to Splatoon (411). Similarly, when looking at the recent Source Gaming poll for DLC fighters, Banjo won in a landslide. This makes me feel that the DLC is actually quite heavily influenced by fan demand, or at least it’s a primary consideration. It certainly makes Dragon Quest that much more of a no brainer for Nintendo / Square since they can achieve both fan demand and cross promotion simultaneously.

Nothing is certain, and I would call this more of an observation than a theory. However, if you compare the Source Gaming results with the SSB Dojo results posted by Fatmanonice the other day, you’ll notice a trend where Bandana Dee, Shantae, and Geno are in very respectable, “Tier 2,” position and kinda clumped together behind K. Rool and Banjo. As Ovaltine said, it looks like there was serious Rareware fever and K. Rool and Banjo uplifted one another.

When comparing the overall poll results we’ve seen to the actual real-world Smash reveals, it would not surprise me at all if we see one more major western fan request make it in. If I had to guess, I would actually go with Shantae if we’re looking at hard numbers. However, I do believe the seniority of the Geno fan base is a significant factor. Doom Slayer could also fit this spot perhaps as FPS games are popular in the west overall. Just a side note as well, in that Famitsu list, Okami is listed at #17, while Phoenix Wright is listed at #94. Amaterasu also outperformed expectations in that Reddit tournament last year. She could be a sleeper for a possible Capcom rep. Anyway, just some observations. At least it’s clear that fan demand plays a major role in DLC selection.

Also:
Hey owjies owjies , I thought about your voice suggestion some more since yesterday and I have to say...
That made me think about Mallow being Geno's Daru and I shall never forgive you for inadvertently causing that mental image.

oh god why
Now you’ve got me imagining Geno and Mallow in the Future Gadgets Lab stuffing mushrooms in a microwave in order to go back to 2007 and change the outcome of the Brawl roster.
 
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Yeah it's more than likely a glitch it doesn't appear for me and I even tried multiple languages, Nothing. It still shows two slots.

If it is for additional characters then that's great but I doubt it's nothing more than a glitch.
When the game was being datamined right before it came out wasn’t it discovered there was room for like 30 extra characters?

Piranha Plant and the Fighter Pass took up 6 of those slots but technically isn’t there still room for 24 more characters if they really wanted to?

I of course know this doesn’t mean we’re going to get 4 more Fighter Passes, but we could easily get a few more after this Pass is over.

So while it’s more likely an editing error that those two extra slots showed up I still have hope.
 
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Fatmanonice

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The main thing that makes me doubt Shantae is how WayForward tried to start a DLC campaign literally hours before Sakurai announced DLC had already been completely decided. I also feel like their reaction to her being a spirit was kind of conclusive too and implied that was all that they were expecting.
 

ShotoStar 2

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When the game was being datamined right before it came out wasn’t it discovered there was room for like 30 extra characters?

Piranha Plant and the Fighter Pass took up 6 of those slots but technically isn’t there still room for 24 more characters if they really wanted to?

I of course know this doesn’t mean we’re going to get 4 more Fighter Passes, but we could easily get a few more after this Pass is over.

So while it’s more likely an editing error that those two extra slots showed up I still have hope.
Well those slots are including alts for the Fighters Pass characters and whatnot so Joker takes up two I believe, Hero takes up four, Banjo takes up one, Piranha Plant takes up one, That's eight right there. So 22 slots are technically left.

Later there was another thing that came up suggesting 16 slots which Piranha Plant and the Fighters Pass would take up six of those but it doesn't include alts if I'm not mistaken. That's 10 slots for extra characters but I personally feel like it's just future proofing if case Sakurai decides to do more characters and nothing more. Of course I would love to be mistaken but I doubt they'll do two more Fighters Passes possibly one more but two I kind of doubt.

Plus Sakurai spoke out against doing more DLC after this if I'm not mistaken.
 
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The main thing that makes me doubt Shantae is how WayForward tried to start a DLC campaign literally hours before Sakurai announced DLC had already been completely decided. I also feel like their reaction to her being a spirit was kind of conclusive too and implied that was all that they were expecting.
I just don’t think an indie character has a chance at playable status. I enjoy the Shantae games, Shovel Knight, and Hollow Knight. I’m not against against any of them making it. Just don’t think Sakurai would actually do it.

I’m still pretty surprised Shovel Knight even made it as an AT. And I’m happy that Shantae and Risky Boots got some recognition with spirits.
 

Fatmanonice

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It doesn't help that Shantae is still really new in Japan too. It's pretty obvious that Nintendo and Wayforward have been trying to push the series in Japan but those efforts have been really, really recent, as in after the Smash Ballot which is probably what spurred them to do it in the first place. Shantae's definitely a contender for the future but just not with this game.
 
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The general difference is that KRool is already considered a main character, which is why fans can ask for his inclusion in some other games.

But as for Geno, he is not part of the Mario main cast. Plus right issues, it doubles the difficulty for him to fit in without a formal return in Mario games.
I'd say that only strengthens my point honestly.

If Geno appeared in the next Mario Party or something after not appearing since Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars outside of cameos despite being heavily requested for Smash, that's DEFINITELY gonna raise some red flags.
 

ShotoStar 2

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It doesn't help that Shantae is still really new in Japan too. It's pretty obvious that Nintendo and Wayforward have been trying to push the series in Japan but those efforts have been really, really recent, as in after the Smash Ballot which is probably what spurred them to do it in the first place. Shantae's definitely a contender for the future but just not with this game.
How recent? Cause they could probably do what they did with the DQ rep and push Shantae to Japan by putting her in Smash much like they did with DQ to America. Kind of a reverse of that situation but of course if it started in say mid 2018 that may be too late.

Otherwise I don't see why they couldn't do a reverse-DQ situation.
 

Fatmanonice

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How recent? Cause they could probably do what they did with the DQ rep and push Shantae to Japan by putting her in Smash much like they did with DQ to America. Kind of a reverse of that situation but of course if it started in say mid 2018 that may be too late.

Otherwise I don't see why they couldn't do a reverse-DQ situation.
How recent? Basically with Half Genie Hero and the Pirate's Curse ports on the Switch so 2017.
 

ShotoStar 2

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How recent? Basically with Half Genie Hero and the Pirate's Curse ports on the Switch so 2017.
In that case then yeah, I don't really get why they couldn't pull a reverse-DQ situation. I'm pretty sure the DLC would've been settled sometime in 2018 or late 2017 at the earliest. I don't think we'll get any indie rep but this isn't really why in my opinion.
 
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T2by4

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All this discussion of geno appearing In Mario kart and other spinoffs yet I don't see that happening unless he returns to Smash. I think Nintendo is aware of his popularity within the smash scene and bringing him to do anything else but that for his big return seems unrealistic. I feel like he has to come back in either a Mario rpg sequel or smash first. There is no other way he should return. Once he does then he can join Mario kart, party, etc.
 

Ovaltine

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All this discussion of geno appearing In Mario kart and other spinoffs yet I don't see that happening unless he returns to Smash. I think Nintendo is aware of his popularity within the smash scene and bringing him to do anything else but that for his big return seems unrealistic. I feel like he has to come back in either a Mario rpg sequel or smash first. There is no other way he should return. Once he does then he can join Mario kart, party, etc.
I honestly don't care which way he returns. Yeah, Smash or a SMRPG-like with Geno and Mallow are his best bets, but I just want to see him return at all.
 

T2by4

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I honestly don't care which way he returns. Yeah, Smash or a SMRPG-like with Geno and Mallow are his best bets, but I just want to see him return at all.
I completely agree, but if he just returned to Mario kart it wouldn't be as big of a scene as smash I feel. We want him to have that big triumphant return like Banjo got so more people can get into the character.
 

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All this discussion of geno appearing In Mario kart and other spinoffs yet I don't see that happening unless he returns to Smash. I think Nintendo is aware of his popularity within the smash scene and bringing him to do anything else but that for his big return seems unrealistic. I feel like he has to come back in either a Mario rpg sequel or smash first. There is no other way he should return. Once he does then he can join Mario kart, party, etc.
I think Sakurai would have put Geno in Smash back in Brawl if it was up to him. If we don't see Geno as DLC in this game, we can all blame Square-Enix for that. I think even if Geno does get into Smash, Square-Enix won't allow him to appear in the Mario spin offs. I think the only way that's happening is if Nintendo completely buys the rights to the Mario RPG IP and it's characters.
 
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Well those slots are including alts for the Fighters Pass characters and whatnot so Joker takes up two I believe, Hero takes up four, Banjo takes up one, Piranha Plant takes up one, That's eight right there. So 22 slots are technically left.

Later there was another thing that came up suggesting 16 slots which Piranha Plant and the Fighters Pass would take up six of those but it doesn't include alts if I'm not mistaken. That's 10 slots for extra characters but I personally feel like it's just future proofing if case Sakurai decides to do more characters and nothing more. Of course I would love to be mistaken but I doubt they'll do two more Fighters Passes possibly one more but two I kind of doubt.

Plus Sakurai spoke out against doing more DLC after this if I'm not mistaken.
He did, but i wouldnt be shocked if he made an exception for 1-3 more characters without making a 5 character commitment like a fighters pass again. I say this only because PP fills in an area where DLC does not have to be relegated to the fighters pass, and individual DLC in the long run for smash would be beneficial.


Basically i definitely dont see a second pass (Sakurai is right, its too risky when he has to create 5 characters from scratch at the level that he does and balances them with 80 other fighters.), but i 100% forsee a few more post-pass as surprises or fan demand.
 
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Wazygoose

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Just came back to pop in and see how everyone is treating the e3 DLC characters Hero and BK.

My 2 cents is still that Geno is in, for the same reasons as months ago. But it's also telling how after this e3 announcement the conversation has become, "Who is left to add to Smash Bros?" Geno is now by far the oldest-most-desired character that is not in the game. He's the last ultra-hype character.

If he's a costume then that's a total deconfirmation for this game. Costumes have served that role in the past and there's no real reason to expect differently. But I can't imagine he'd be in the fighter's pass along with Hero or BK. The Joker pass's costumes, stage, music, and spirits were all related to that IP. It's billed as Smash Bros X Persona, Smash Bros X BK, and Smash Bros X Dragon Quest, not Smash Bros X Dragon Quest And Rando Characters From Other IPs.

The one and only one thing Geno has against him is that he and Mallow are spirits and each have an adventure mode battle modeled after them. But that's still kind of a big deal, because fighter passes add stages, spirits/spirit battles, music, and costumes along with the fighter. Geno already has a couple spirits and accompanying battles, so there's less content to add. You're not just selling Geno, you're also selling Mallow/Smithy/Croco/Booster costumes, a few other spirits, some lit music, and a stage (my guess is still the Bowyer boss battle in the forest with the lock-buttons gimmick). That said, iadding him last makes the most sense, if only for the logistic reason that they'll be getting less requests--if you add Geno not as the last DLC character, everyone is going to think their currently deconfirmed spirit is on the table for subsequent DLC and flood Nintendo with requests again.

As a last nugget, here's some out-there speculation. After Geno, the rest of his fighter pass content is more or less a stretch. You could add Paper Mario content by lumping in the Paper Mario games with SMRPG as the forefather, but it's insanely unlikely, they're different IPs owned by different companies. BUT, if they bought the license for Geno and Mallow and created brand-new PAPER GENO, making him a Paper Mario IP character, that opens up the floodgates for all the Paper Mario characters for costumes, music, spirits, and stages! You've got massive hype-building and promotion infusing the announcement of a new Paper Mario game. New game, brand-new Paper Geno and Paper Mallow included!
 

Fatmanonice

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I keep going back to those poll results and there really is a power gap when it comes to popularity. Most are already in if not as playable then as an assist trophy. The last character is probably going to be someone popular but, looking at the global results, there's not really any front runners, especially if you put the 2018 timeframe in context.
 

"LC"_Lapen

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That last stage spot is going to be Forest Maze.
If I could pick the Geno stage he would be announced with, and if I were to turn my SMRPG fanboy faucet to full blast, this is what I would go with:

The Stage would be the rooftop of Bowser's Keep with Exor in the background, and the spires could be replaced with the chandeliers for the Battlefield version of the stage.

HOWEVER

As time progressed through the fight, the Seven Star pieces would descend from the clouds as they did in the intro to Super Mario RPG. Then as they fell an scattered, one at random would fall in the fighters' direction and would bathe the battlefield in that star's color transforming the stage as if it was undergoing a stage morph. As the light fades out, the stage's backdrop will have changed to the location where the Star Piece fell in the game. So:

-Blue : Mushroom Kingdom throneroom besieged by Mack and his minions. The Chancellor and his toads would be cowering in the corners.
-Green : The Forest Maze, right on top of the stump where you fight Bowyer. Flunkies would line up on either side, and Bowyer himself could fire arrows either into the distance towards Rose Town or towards the fighters.
-Orange : Moleville mines, with Punchinello desperately trying to detonate his Bob-ombs in the background. Dyna and Mite could ride through on the cart tracks on occasion, and Croco could peek his head out of a corner to check for an opportunity to loot the fighters.
-Purple : Star Hill, covered in fallen wishes and lunar hills. Perhaps visions of the wishmakers could appear over some of the stars, Frogfusious, Mallow's Parents, etc.
-Light Blue: Sunken pirate ship, with Johnny and his crew cheering from the sidelines. King Calamari can be seen writhing in the background.
-Red : Vs. Axem Rangers on the Blade above the Barrel Volcano. As like on the Halberd, occasionally the Breaker Beam will charge and fire across the deck.
-Yellow: Smithy Factory forge vs. Smithy. Conveyer belts and machinery constantly churn out weapons as Smithy angrily hammers away.

Once a certain amount of time has passed, the light covers the battlefield again and it reverts back to the default Bowser's Keep. The cycle repeats with a different star piece after a while.

It seems like a lot to do for one stage, but if there was any a time for Super Mario RPG to get some recognition and love from a developer who knows what he's doing, I say pack in as much as you can.
 
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