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Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

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Luig

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Wolf? A clone?!

Some people are just so blind...
I've explained my thoughts on it many times, but some people just assume I guess.
Wolf's moveset was derived from Fox's though little is in common.
They are barely similar. I don't get how people see him as a clone when he shares no standard moves and his specials differ a lot....
 

NintenZ

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I've had that exact same thought. It would be oh and if you buy all the DLC, you get the fan favorite Wolf free. Of course you'll also have the option to buy him separately.
Yeah, I think it'd actually be a pretty great idea, and it'd help people experience everything Smash Bros has to offer (And print more money!!! :chuckle:)
Wolf's new theme song everyone!!!
 

DustyPumpkin

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A question? Will we actually main the characters we want in? If they make it in? I mean of course I would main K. Rool for example he'd be fun to use, and I'd be happy he's in. And I would have a blast playing as him I'd think he'd be a trap based heavyweight character .
Weather it be Ridley or Savvy Stylist, I would most certainly do my best to main them, but as with all Smash Bros,sometimes you can't gaurentee you'll be good with someone, Like i really like Shulk but I am poor with him and Zelda isn't someone I liked till Hyrule Warriors and I ended up actually pretty good with her
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I've explained my thoughts on it many times, but some people just assume I guess.
Wolf's moveset was derived from Fox's though little is in common.
They are barely similar. I don't get how people see him as a clone when he shares no standard moves and his specials differ a lot....
Those aren't thoughts, they're FACTS!
 

IndigoSSB

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I've explained my thoughts on it many times, but some people just assume I guess.
Wolf's moveset was derived from Fox's though little is in common.
They are barely similar. I don't get how people see him as a clone when he shares no standard moves and his specials differ a lot....
Other than special moves I don't think Wolf got any moves copied over from Fox. Believe it or not he got the Sonic treatment, where his moves were copied over from a large variety of characters.
 

Luig

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I mean...
still a quasi-clone, the same as :4lucas:.
From a series whose fanbase is VERY HEAVILY weighted in one nation, like :4lucas:.
Who was cut from Brawl to smash 4, like :4lucas:.
Hmm... wonder if there's a trend here.
He's not a semi-clone. Not even close to lucas. He has completely different physics, no standard moves in common, his playstyle is pretty different, and his specials differ in function.
 
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If you strip the villain part about it away, K. Rool and Wolf are significant to their respective series, they have great moveset potential, and would bring a good and fun gameplay aspect to Smash. So they do stand on their own merit.
 
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NintenZ

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If you strip the villain part about it away, K. Rool and Wilf are significant to their respective series, they have great moveset potential, and would bring a good and fun gameplay aspect to Smash. So they do stand on their own merit.
Wolf was a quasi-clone in Brawl bro. ;)
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Other than special moves I don't think Wolf got any moves copied over from Fox. Believe it or not he got the Sonic treatment, where his moves were copied over from a large variety of characters.
His specials are only similar in name.

Blaster has much less range and the gun has a hitbox
Wolf Flash is diagonal and has a meteor sweetspot at the end
Fire Wolf is a multi-hit
Reflector augments the speed instead of the damage

Those small differences, combined with the rest of his moveset being completely different from any Star Fox character, is more than enough to make "semi-clone" a debatable position for Wolf.
 
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Burruni

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He's not a semi-clone. Not even close to lucas. He has completely different physics, no standard moves in common, his playstyle is pretty different, and his specials differ in function.
No.
wolf and lucas are both Quasi-clones.
Characters of custom-special-move tier difference and near-unique standard moves.

A semi-clone is the likes of :4ganondorf::4tlink::4falco::4feroy:.
 
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Luig

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Other than special moves I don't think Wolf got any moves copied over from Fox. Believe it or not he got the Sonic treatment, where his moves were copied over from a large variety of characters.
Yeah, the devs just said they kinda derived him from Fox. Other than that you can see he did get the sonic treatment, like in his usmash, nair and dair.
 
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Most people dont look past specials or weapons when it comes to clones. Ike and Cloud are clones because they both use swords.

Wolf and Fox are clones because they both have similar specials


Some people don't look very deeply. I've seen Ike called a marth clone before :/
 
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D

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Wolf was a quasi-clone in Brawl bro. ;)
Clone or not he's easy to bring back, and his attacks are more stronger and savage and safistic in nature. As compared to Fox and Falvo's speed and elegance so clone or not he should come back bro.
 

NintenZ

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Clone or not he's easy to bring back, and his attacks are more stronger and savage and safistic in nature. As compared to Fox and Falvo's speed and elegance so clone or not he should come back bro.
Do you agree with my idea of him being a prize for buying all the DLC? :)
 

Luig

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I've never heard the term quasi-clone. If you ask me, farther than a semi-clone shouldn't even really be grouped with clone. And I'm pretty sure Lucas is a semi-clone, he still has his moveset from brawl...
 

Burruni

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Do you agree with my idea of him being a prize for buying all the DLC? :)
They may do that but make sure that he's sold separately.

:4mewtwo: 4 Free, Remember?

I've never heard the term quasi-clone. If you ask me, farther than a semi-clone shouldn't even really be grouped with clone. And I'm pretty sure Lucas is a semi-clone, he still has his moveset from brawl...
You know what standard moves Lucas shares with Ness?
Down-Tilt and some throws.
Same as Wolf.

They both have special moves that are litterally custom special levels of different, because they ARE custom specials for the other characters of their franchises in this game.
 
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Zerp

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What do we call Wolf anyway, he's not really a clone, only a pseudo-clone, but his moveset has moves from Sonic, Diddy Kong, and Pikachu. Smash Frankenstein? Seriously though, what do we call it when a character has a lot of re-used moves but their not from the same person, is there a term for that?
 

NintenZ

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What do we call Wolf anyway, he's not really a clone, only a pseudo-clone, but his moveset has moves from Sonic, Diddy Kong, and Pikachu. Smash Frankenstein? Seriously though, what do we call it when a character has a lot of re-used moves but their not from the same person, is there a term for that?
The Hokey-Pokey? :p
 

Luig

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What do we call Wolf anyway, he's not really a clone, only a pseudo-clone, but his moveset has moves from Sonic, Diddy Kong, and Pikachu. Smash Frankenstein? Seriously though, what do we call it when a character has a lot of re-used moves but their not from the same person, is there a term for that?
Well, Sonic actually got the same treatment in brawl. You know, dtilt, utilt, dair, etc. It really doesn't have a name, it's just borrowing moves from other characters.
 
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IndigoSSB

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His specials are only similar in name.

Blaster has much less range and the gun has a hitbox
Wolf Flash is diagonal and has a meteor sweetspot at the end
Fire Wolf is a multi-hit
Reflector augments the speed instead of the damage

Those small differences, combined with the rest of his moveset being completely different from any Star Fox character, is more than enough to make "semi-clone" a debatable position for Wolf.
Similar to Falco, who has similar specials but with different properties. Except the difference between Wolf and Falco, who is considered by many as a semi-clone, is Falco's regular moves are heavily derived from Fox with the exception of Fair and Nair.

He's pretty much in the same boat as Lucas. They play nothing like their supposed "originals" but are still referred to as clones because of similar looking specials
 

pupNapoleon

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Yeah, but the company owning the character must approve the use of its character in Smash.

In other words, the only reason Cloud got in is because Square Enix said yes.

A SITUATION THAT NEVER HAPPENED

Sakurai to Company Y; "And So, with open arms, we would love to bring your mascot to Smash bros... what do you say?"
Company Y (Third Party); "HELLLLLL NO! I'll stick with my own games and profits."
 

NintenZ

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*Sigh*
Look up Clone on the SSBWIKI and you'll find out that Wolf is not a clone in Brawl.
 
D

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Do you agree with my idea of him being a prize for buying all the DLC? :)
I think it's a good idea. But I'd rather him come ragas less. If he's a reward he should've free. Sadly I might not even get the EShop card and if I can't get K. Rool or Cloud at least I could be happy their in. And get some free DLC. But yeah he could be a reward. Also I wasn't mocking you with the bro thing. Sorry if it sounded like that.
 
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pupNapoleon

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I kinda doubt there will be more than three characters left at this point.

I mean, Sakurai's already stated they couldn't make THAT many characters, the Direct we're getting in December mentions that it will be the last broadcast this game gets, and eventually they have to move on sometime.

A year's worth of support for Smash with seven DLC characters is pretty impressive as is. I initially thought we'd only get like three when Mewtwo was announced.
Sakurai stated there couldn't be "That many characters" in the base game, as well. Literally, the same statement.
The one where we got 13 newcomers.

Eventually they do have to move on, but they also need to have something to show for the amount of time they have put in so far, which at this point is 14 months, more than a third of the initial games' development.

A years worth of support is impressive if they did anything with that time. I am of the few who thinks that we will get plenty of content, because they have actually been working this entire time.

So I've been doing speculation for at least a year now, and I've heard "iconic" used pretty frequently. However, I really don't know what that means in this context.

What do you guys consider the definition for "iconic" when it comes to video game characters?

Is iconic simply another word for popular or is there something else we have to consider?
I use icon in regard to being visually recognizable to a mass amount (something, say, Snake is not, even by the standards of his changing design and very average design), but also as something regarding being symbolic of a greater purpose (Something Snake is, in regard to his series and his genre).
 

NintenZ

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I think it's a good idea. But I'd rather him come ragas less. If he's a reward he should've free. Sadly I might not even get the EShop card and if I can't get K. Rool or Cloud at least I could be happy their in. And get some free DLC. But yeah he could be a reward. Also I wasn't mocking you with the bro thing. Sorry if it sounded like that.
No, I didn't feel you felt like that at all. (Partly because I just noticed it)
 

pupNapoleon

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Also: A clone.

A character who was derived of the same moveset.
Regardless of how segregated they become over time due property changes (weight/angle/lag/speed...)
A clone is a clone. I dont care if Wolf plays differently than Fox. That doesnt mean they weren't bread of the same playstyle.

I'm tired of quibbling over a term. When someone says 'clone,' or especially, 'semiclone,' we all damn well know what it means, and it in fact, is not something that can be disproved by 'other' differences.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Since other people are doing it I might as well

In december I think we'll get an update containing:
Cloud (Pre-Ballot)
Wolf (Pre-Ballot)
King K Rool (Ballot)

Then sometime early next year we'll get a character every month of 2, these would be:
Krystal (Ballot)
Isaac (Ballot)
Bandana Dee (Ballot)

Every character would come with a new stage
Cloud obviously has Midgar
Wolf being a veteran probably has a returning stage like Sector Z
K Rool would have Gangplank Galleon
Krystal would have Sauria
I'm not sure about Isaac, never played GS
I'm not entirely sure about BD either
 

ErenJager

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I really want Wolf back, pretty much any vet takes priority over newcomers for me.

I just like completeness.

However I wouldnt be shocked, surprised or hyped for them as much as I would a newcomer.

Left field screw ball characters got me addicted....

Only characters that could really throw me threw a loop are bomberman and geno at this point...
 

Acadian Flycatcher

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I just hope the DLC isn't oversaturated with third party characters. Sonic, PAC-MAN, Mega Man, Ryu and Cloud are huge third party inclusions. It really is gaming's upper echelon. I'd only want a few other big name third party characters, and then sprinkle the rest with Nintendo characters.
 

JayTheBrainMann

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I don't think being "iconic" has anything to do with anything. I mean, the only thing "iconic" about :icsmelee: before Melee was them starring in an obscure NES game. There was absolutely nothing "iconic" about :roymelee: or :4greninja: before they were chosen for their respective games. And what's "iconic" about :4robinm: and :4lucina: other than them starring in one of the many sequels of a several years long franchise? What's "iconic" about :wolf:? What's "iconic" about :4shulk:?

Not that I'm saying "non-iconic" third parties have a good chance, but I just don't think the "iconic" thing holds much water.

Also, what's so "iconic" about CommanderVideo that he gets a trophy, other than having games starring him released on many platforms?

...okay, I'm done now.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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I just hope the DLC isn't oversaturated with third party characters. Sonic, PAC-MAN, Mega Man, Ryu and Cloud are huge third party inclusions. It really is gaming's upper echelon. I'd only want a few other big name third party characters, and then sprinkle the rest with Nintendo characters.
I think we're pretty much done for 3rd parties, 5 is a good amount and other than maybe metal gear, tomb raider, maybe rayman and maybe bomberman I can't really see any big series and Lara is nothing without her pistols, Bomberman is dying a slow death and Snake has that E10 rating going against him
 
D

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Since other people are doing it I might as well

In december I think we'll get an update containing:
Cloud (Pre-Ballot)
Wolf (Pre-Ballot)
King K Rool (Ballot)

Then sometime early next year we'll get a character every month of 2, these would be:
Krystal (Ballot)
Isaac (Ballot)
Bandana Dee (Ballot)

Every character would come with a new stage
Cloud obviously has Midgar
Wolf being a veteran probably has a returning stage like Sector Z
K Rool would have Gangplank Galleon
Krystal would have Sauria
I'm not sure about Isaac, never played GS
I'm not entirely sure about BD either
I agree with this. I think Bandana Dee could come with A Kirby Rainbow Curse stage. And Isaac Venus lighthouse.
 
D

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I don't think being "iconic" has anything to do with anything. I mean, the only thing "iconic" about :icsmelee: before Melee was them starring in an obscure NES game. There was absolutely nothing "iconic" about :roymelee: or :4greninja: before they were chosen for their respective games. And what's "iconic" about :4robinm: and :4lucina: other than them starring in one of the many sequels of a several years long franchise? What's "iconic" about :wolf:? What's "iconic" about :4shulk:?

Not that I'm saying "non-iconic" third parties have a good chance, but I just don't think the "iconic" thing holds much water.

Also, what's so "iconic" about CommanderVideo that he gets a trophy, other than having games starring him released on many platforms?

...okay, I'm done now.
First party characters don't really have the same high standards applied to them as third party characters. Also, that CommanderVideo trophy wasn't put into the game for being iconic.
 

JaidynReiman

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I don't think being "iconic" has anything to do with anything. I mean, the only thing "iconic" about :icsmelee: before Melee was them starring in an obscure NES game. There was absolutely nothing "iconic" about :roymelee: or :4greninja: before they were chosen for their respective games. And what's "iconic" about :4robinm: and :4lucina: other than them starring in one of the many sequels of a several years long franchise? What's "iconic" about :wolf:? What's "iconic" about :4shulk:?

Not that I'm saying "non-iconic" third parties have a good chance, but I just don't think the "iconic" thing holds much water.

Also, what's so "iconic" about CommanderVideo that he gets a trophy, other than having games starring him released on many platforms?

...okay, I'm done now.
In regards to third-parties? Yes, "iconic" does matter. You can't compare all third-party characters we have to all first-party characters and say "oh, some first-party characters aren't that iconic, that means we can get non-iconic third-parties!"

That's a false comparison. You compare third-parties to each other and first-parties to each other. Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud. All iconic thrid-party characters. Hell, Cloud is from THE BIGGEST third-party franchise to date. Sonic was previous the biggest, and he's still the biggest in regards to the character himself, but Final Fantasy is by far a much bigger franchise.



Since other people are doing it I might as well

In december I think we'll get an update containing:
Cloud (Pre-Ballot)
Wolf (Pre-Ballot)
King K Rool (Ballot)

Then sometime early next year we'll get a character every month of 2, these would be:
Krystal (Ballot)
Isaac (Ballot)
Bandana Dee (Ballot)

Every character would come with a new stage
Cloud obviously has Midgar
Wolf being a veteran probably has a returning stage like Sector Z
K Rool would have Gangplank Galleon
Krystal would have Sauria
I'm not sure about Isaac, never played GS
I'm not entirely sure about BD either
I'm iffy on getting 6 but I do think its possible. However, I think we'd get Inklings rather than Krystal. Otherwise its a good lineup; barring Krystal (replace her with Inklings) I can easily see this happen if we get 6 characters.


For Isaac he'd definitely have Venus Lighthouse, its the final dungeon of the first Golden Sun game and its also tied with Venus Psynergy and Isaac is a Venus Adept, so it makes the most sense.
 
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