Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, wasn't Greninja counted as a villain on the Conquest mode once?

 

[CodeBlue_]

I think Pokemon is a very weird franchise that could have a different decision making process than a lot of other First Parties.

"Iconic" is really really hard to argue for these characters. The only truly "iconic" Pokemon characters are from the first generation, as those games defined the Pokemon series and its culture. Look at Lucario, Greninja and Jigglypuff. They returned (or probably will return) because of their popularity and it's difficult to argue them as iconic.

(Jigglypuff is a separate case that really confuses me. I'm guessing it's because she was popular in Japan during the 64 era and probably still is now)

Furthermore, the dynamic between GameFreak and Sakurai is a little confusing to me. I've heard GF is stingy with Pokemon as its IP, but Sakurai makes the decision about what characters get in. Will GameFreak reject a Pokemon if they feel it won't be profitable, Or rather, will Sakurai (after consulting with GF about the series)?

We know Sakurai does research for series, but there is a possibility he consults companies (like GF and Intelligent Systems) for advice on what characters and game elements are popular. Sakurai has the ultimate decision, but I feel it the company could be influencing him.

This really depends on whether Sakurai, for example, directly chose Greninja or whether GF "pushed" him into picking the starter from the new games.

This probably applies to the Fire Emblem franchise too.

 

[Schnee117]

Actually, wasn't Greninja counted as a villain on the Conquest mode once?

Because the Dark Type = Evil type in Japan

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Pokemon is a very weird franchise that could have a different decision making process than a lot of other First Parties.

"Iconic" is really really hard to argue for these characters. The only truly "iconic" Pokemon characters are from the first generation, as those games defined the Pokemon series and its culture. Look at Lucario, Greninja and Jigglypuff. They returned (or probably will return) because of their popularity and it's difficult to argue them as iconic.

(Jigglypuff is a separate case that really confuses me. I'm guessing it's because she was popular in Japan during the 64 era and probably still is now)

Furthermore, the dynamic between GameFreak and Sakurai is a little confusing to me. I've heard GF is stingy with Pokemon as its IP, but Sakurai makes the decision about what characters get in. Will GameFreak reject a Pokemon if they feel it won't be profitable, Or rather, will Sakurai (after consulting with GF about the series)?

We know Sakurai does research for series, but there is a possibility he consults companies (like GF and Intelligent Systems) for advice on what characters and game elements are popular. Sakurai has the ultimate decision, but I feel it the company could be influencing him.

This really depends on whether Sakurai, for example, directly chose Greninja or whether GF "pushed" him into picking the starter from the new games.

This probably applies to the Fire Emblem franchise too.

Actually, Lucario is iconic as he's the poster boy of Gen IV, was one of the first mons revealed for Pokken AND fought Mega Mewtwo Y in official artwork on Mega Evolution. And Sakurai or Game Freak have said GF shows what they're trying to market, though in the case of Greninja Sakurai looked at the concept art and decided he wanted frog legs

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

8/56 (You forgot Dedede) isn't really a lot, where's K Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus, Medusa, Wolf, Porky, Black Shadow/Samurai Goroh etc etc

Yeah, thanks for reminding me about Dedede.
And yeah, that really isn't a lot but by looking at MagnesD3 post, I thought he didn't even know about the villains in Smash.

Including d3 so like 4, the bottom row aren't villains. 4/56 nice...

Which is why I put "debatable" on the bottom row.
They might not be the main villain but they still sort of count...
- Pit's rival. He started off as a 'jerk' to Pit and always mocked him. He's more of a rival to be honest.

- He was considered a villain in Melee along with and Giga . Not to mention the movie.

- In Kirby Super Star, he wanted to take over Dreamland.

- More of an annoying troll in the Mario series. However, he was a villain in subspace emissary.

I know it's not a lot, but I thought you were saying there wasn't any villains in Smash at all.

 

[MagnesD3]

I know it's not a lot, but I thought you were saying there wasn't any villains in Smash at all.

Yeah there are a couple it would be nice if there were a decent amount.


Also for iconic pokemon the only iconic ones in game are pika, mewtwo, Zard and lucario. It's not like iconic status matters anymore in getting into smash anyways there's no point in worrying about it anymore tbh.

 

[NintenZ]

Ahem

(Debatable)

I know you're being sarcastic but I feel like this is worth mentioning.

andaren't gonna be very happy when they see this mate.

 

[Wolfie557]

Pokemon sell, a LOT.
They are veterans who are more unique than any we have seen return sans Mewtwo.
He personally likes Squirtle, a good deal.
They are first party.
They may have data in from the initial game, pending when transformations were cut.
They are unexpected returns.
They are own by first party.
They are exceptionally iconic (and I still argue, more ICONIC than Snake, by definition).

But what will happen will happen.

If we get like , 6 more characters including Cloud, I would say them two awesome Pokemon are pretty likely to come.

 

[FalKoopa]

There isn't a villain quota or something like that to fill. If a villain is notable enough, he should be.

I know MagnesD3 is talking about K. Rool and Wolf who should be in, but that doesn't mean we should be adding villains just for the sake of it. They should stand on their own merits too.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They are exceptionally iconic (and I still argue, more ICONIC than Snake, by definition).

While I agree that Snake isn't very iconic in gaming, he's actually a very iconic figure among the Smash community.

He is the original third party, after all.

 

[Wolfie557]

Ahem

(Debatable)

I know you're being sarcastic but I feel like this is worth mentioning.

Say's hi. IMO, she is one of the best villains to add.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

While I agree that Snake isn't very iconic in gaming, he's actually a very iconic figure among the Smash community.

He is the original third party, after all.

Metal Gear Solid revolutionized gaming with how cinematic it was. Granted, it made David Cage exist, but that's iconic enough

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Metal Gear Solid revolutionized gaming with how cinematic it was. Granted, it made David Cage exist, but that's iconic enough

You call that gaming?

I call it "let's make some popcorn before that 40-minute cutscene"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You call that gaming?

I call it "let's make some popcorn before that 40-minute cutscene"

Visual Novels are still a genre

 

[A Distant Demon]

Dark Pit isn't a villain in any way shape of form. Anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't played the game and doesn't know anything more about him and thinks he is just "edgy pit"

Say's hi. IMO, she is one of the best villains to add.

Oh kitty has claws. . .Too bad it's still not enough to out-do me. Good luck getting into smash when you cant even take a single hit.
Hades for Guidance DLC when?
Viridi as full DLC when?


Snake fills all prerequisites for being playable. He wouldn't have been playable if he wasn't. It' snot a matter of "can he be DLC" but "will he"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Oh kitty has claws. . .Too bad it's still not enough to out-do me. Good luck getting into smash when you cant even take a single hit.
Hades for Guidance DLC when?

Sakurai did a terrible mistake by not including him in the Guidances.

I would've loved to see the "Hades! Pit! Hades! Pit!" sequence in Smash 4

 

[Halifax?]

Playstation 1
* Final Fantasy VII: 9.72 million
* Metal Gear Solid: 7 million

Playstation 2
* Grand Theft Auto III: 7.9 million
* Metal Gear Solid 2: 7 million

Playstation 3
* The Last of Us: 7 million
* Metal Gear Solid 4: 6 million

The people know about Snake.

 

[Pazzo.]

Sakurai did a terrible mistake by not including him in the Guidances.

I would've loved to see the "Hades! Pit! Hades! Pit!" sequence in Smash 4

Spoiler: Kid Icarus Uprising

Well, he did get defeated.

Perhaps when Smash 9 or so comes out, 25 years will have passed and Sakurai will include him.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Spoiler: Kid Icarus Uprising

Well, he did get defeated.

Perhaps when Smash 9 or so comes out, 25 years will have passed and Sakurai will include him.

Spoiler: MORE SPOILERS

He's defeated, but not dead!

His spirit still lives on!

 

[Pazzo.]

Spoiler: MORE SPOILERS

He's defeated, but not dead!

His spirit still lives on!

Spoiler: Yet even more

YES. EVEN DEFEAT CANNOT BIND OUR LORD.

KI:U was a great game in its own merits. It's really a shame that we probably won't see a sequel anytime soon.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Spoiler: MORE SPOILERS

He's defeated, but not dead!

His spirit still lives on!

Spoiler

Well he does say "I'm not even sure if I can be resurrected." Assuming the Japanese version is the same he may be completely dead.

Unlike VIridi. She is alive and kicking and awesome

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Spoiler: Yet even more

YES. EVEN DEFEAT CANNOT BIND OUR LORD.

KI:U was a great game in its own merits. It's really a shame that we probably won't see a sequel anytime soon.

Spoiler: I'll let you guess...

ALL HAIL LORD HADES, MASTER OF THE UNDERWORLD AND GOD OF ALL EVIL!!!

*ahem*

Well, I can wait 25 years...can you?

 

[Pazzo.]

Spoiler: I'll let you guess...

ALL HAIL LORD HADES, MASTER OF THE UNDERWORLD AND GOD OF ALL EVIL!!!

*ahem*

Well, I can wait 25 years...can you?

As long as there's Smash, I can wait 50 years.

Hopefully we won't have to wait quite that long for a KI:U sequel + more Kid Icarus Smash content.

 

[Vintage Creep]

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

I don't think we'll get another shock character at this point tbh.


Also, that's a series which legitimately probably wouldn't happen, because it would basically require guns to make a moveset out of them. And we're never getting guns in Smash, so its out of the question. (I guess that would make them a legit shock, though, lol...)

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

Any non-Nintendo character because I would be appalled by the lack of first party love.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

Ridley
Explicit deconfirmation and an in-game role?

Couldn't **** this fanbase up any harder.

 

[Pazzo.]

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

Same.

Master Chief or any MK character would cause the same shock.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also, that's a series which legitimately probably wouldn't happen, because it would basically require guns to make a moveset out of them. And we're never getting guns in Smash, so its out of the question. (I guess that would make them a legit shock, though, lol...)

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

I'd say the next shocking reveal would be a non-videogame character...

I hope it never happens, however...

 

[FalKoopa]

So, now that Cloud is in, what would be the most legit shook character to be announced next?

My guess? A Grand Theft Auto character. That would destroy me.

A Microsoft character, I'd say.

I mean, GTA would more shocking but it's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Ridley
Explicit deconfirmation and an in-game role?

Couldn't **** this fanbase up any harder.

Yeah, honestly, I think it would lol. I think more people would be shocked by Ridley than a Microsoft character at this point.

 

[Pazzo.]

Yeah, honestly, I think it would lol. I think more people would be shocked by Ridley than a Microsoft character at this point.

Chrom too.

Imagine the salt/confusion.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sure.

But for me, I support a character because I want to play them.

That is a bit upsetting though...

I support characters, to some extent, who I think bring unique new playstyles, and operate in a means all their own.
However, the character may still get in, and be nothing like what I imagined.

In fact, while I've been pretty on point with the character selection so far (only missed Greinja in the initial line up, and the only shock I've had so far was Roy), I cannot imagine how anyone who supports more than veterans could even stick to this principle.

They are? Is that on Smashboards or in general?

I would be excited to see them again, but I feel Wolf and Snake (and ICs) are leaps and bounds ahead of them in popularity.

The vocal smash community is not in the favor of anything Pokemon (in any way, ever).

But general game and Nintendo fans? I'd reckon, Far more interested in Squirtle and Ivysaur than in Wolf or Snake or Icies.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Chrom too.

Imagine the salt/confusion.

Super Similar Fire Emblem Character Bros for Wii U lol.

Not saying Chrom wouldn't be unique. But yeah, basically any character who was outright deconfirmed in some way would be a huge shakeup.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If we get like , 6 more characters including Cloud, I would say them two awesome Pokemon are pretty likely to come.

I honeslty see this as a DISTINCT possibility though.

Checkout my first youtube video (in my sig) for my opinion on thinking we are getting a massive amount of content. We have very little reason to think we are only getting a couple of characters, and very much reason to think we will be getting a big update.

However, I also think 'deconfirmed' means little. I think in cases like Chrom, Sakurai just doesnt want to add the character- and there are enough reasons to boast this assumption.

However, others- perhaps Ridey, ICs, or certain Pokemon/ATs, I think they could be fair game.
In particular, I'd say that Meowth and Eevee are possible (and that they coud still just function as items when those Pokemon are not chosen. Or it could be their shiny form instead). In the case of ATs, I think we could, in theory, get a Warioware design Waluigi (and even if it is yet to be canon, the only way I see Waluigi getting in the game is as a Warioware character).

 

[Dinoman96]

Sakurai did a terrible mistake by not including him in the Guidances.

I would've loved to see the "Hades! Pit! Hades! Pit!" sequence in Smash 4

Something I keep seeing being passed around is that in the JP version of KIU, apparently Hades wasn't nearly as memorable or funny a character like in the localization, sort of like Kefka, and therefore wasn't super popular there or something.

 

[Pazzo.]

That is a bit upsetting though...

I support characters, to some extent, who I think bring unique new playstyles, and operate in a means all their own.
However, the character may still get in, and be nothing like what I imagined.

In fact, while I've been pretty on point with the character selection so far (only missed Greinja in the initial line up, and the only shock I've had so far was Roy), I cannot imagine how anyone who supports more than veterans could even stick to this principle.

I may not want to play them competitively, but if I want to support a character, I'll want to play them at some point.

Be it FFA, 1V1, items on or off, I find a sort of vicarious sense of pleasure in simply playing as my favorite characters.

Take Mewtwo for example. I don't use him often in 1V1s, but I love the satisfaction of reflecting someone's projectile back at them and it hitting someone else. Or Charizard, who I love in FFAs with no items.

Really it's because the feeling of using Charizard as a kamekazi or Mewtwo as some sort of mind-bending master of manipulation resonates with how I view the characters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I may not want to play them competitively, but if I want to support a character, I'll want to play them at some point.

Be it FFA, 1V1, items on or off, I find a sort of vicarious sense of pleasure in simply playing as my favorite characters.

Take Mewtwo for example. I don't use him often in 1V1s, but I love the satisfaction of reflecting someone's projectile back at them and it hitting someone else. Or Charizard, who I love in FFAs with no items.

Really it's because the feeling of using Charizard as a kamekazi or Mewtwo as some sort of mind-bending master of manipulation resonates with how I view the characters.

I'm a big fan of Mewtwo.
I still think PM Did it better.

 

[Dinoman96]

Anyways, my prediction for the final three characters for this game. ? = newcomer, by the way

Cloud, ,

OR
Cloud, , ?

OR
Cloud, , ?

OR, hell

Cloud, ?, ?

One of those four options.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Dark Pit isn't a villain in any way shape of form. Anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't played the game and doesn't know anything more about him and thinks he is just "edgy pit"

Oh kitty has claws. . .Too bad it's still not enough to out-do me. Good luck getting into smash when you cant even take a single hit.
Hades for Guidance DLC when?
Viridi as full DLC when?


Snake fills all prerequisites for being playable. He wouldn't have been playable if he wasn't. It' snot a matter of "can he be DLC" but "will he"

"Villain" is really a personal determination.
It seems in this community that it has the intensity of someone being viewed to have poor morality and ethics, but also is an antagonist.
The former is all that matters.
I could call Dark Pit a villain easily- he exhibits all sorts of personality traits and even villifies himself in the process of the games.
Villain is a really loose word.