Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[pupNapoleon]

if you legit want to remove gore from the main character of the goriest franchise ever where it is known and loved for it's amount of gore and violence you are not going to have a lot of disappointed fans

It made its name in Gore, it is not necessarily the entirety of the franchise. I dont see how that is different than taking Snake, a character who uses many weapons of a variety of wartime merit, and making him a bomber-man.

Mortal Kombat is known for being Gore, but it is also a series which makes light of itself with comedic brevity often. It is this juxtaposition that I believe is more the heart of the series. Sure, you have fatalities, but you also have babalities. You can punch someone onto a spike, but then a voice comes out in a high pitch voice and screams, "Toasty." The game is filled with examples of this- it's not as if Scorpion is Kratos, who is inherently more badass. There is an undeniable lightness within the Mortal Kombat world, and that could be highlighted without making Mario bleed to death from a spear through the heart.

sure people would lose their minds or whatever but he doesn't fit in, sakurai wouldn't allow it for the same reasons he doesn't allow ridley

Firstly, Ridley is in the game, and he has been in every game.
If your point is a matter of truth to the character- then I still argue there is a huge difference between tone of a character and mechanics, the latter being why Ridley has yet to be included, and the former being your justification for why Scorpion would not make it in.
There are definitely ways to make Scorpion more viable via tone- such as utilizing the disparity of the in game tone versus our perceived tone. Again to relate it to theater- on stage, the characters may feel everything is serious, a melodrama. However, the tone of the piece is determined by how the audience perceives it, and often a melodrama ends up being funny from an outside perspective, and is thus labeled a 'comedy.'
That said, I think the thing that makes Scorpion unlikely, is the fact that we have a character who is slate to be the "face of fighting games." I doubt we would, after that, get another non-Nintendo fighting mascot.

Gotta love when fans speak for Sakurai, though. It's just your opinion, and as we have seen many times by what fans of the series believe can and cannot happen, it does not hold true for what Sakurai believes to be truth.

 

[Burruni]

I just realized something, Sora can't be owned by Disney, as he's set to make an appearance in Dissida Final Fantasy 012 along with Roxas, so that would mean he's owned by Square if he's in Dissida.

That's like saying Alphadream owns Geno because of the cameo in Superstar Saga.
Check the credits.

 

[NintenZ]

That's like saying Alphadream owns Geno because of the cameo in Superstar Saga.
Check the credits.

"Geno is own by Square-Enix Co. Copyright 2002"
Then again that was just a small cameo, Sora and Roxas are full-on playable characters in the upcoming Dissida.

 

[Burruni]

"Geno is own by Square-Enix Co. Copyright 2002"
Then again that was just a small cameo, Sora and Roxas are full-on playable characters in the upcoming Dissida.

That's not what I mean.
I mean that Disney's in the CREDITS of D-12 but not at the start because their teams didn't help make it, unlike the KH games.
When you look at the title screens of Kingdom Hearts, you'll see a little something.
"© Disney, Developed by Square Enix."

 

[pupNapoleon]

Considering guns get removed, anything related to lots of gore would be banned from Smash sooner than you could say 'Sakurai'

Guns are violent, not gorey. In fact, they are inherently almost the antithesis of gorey- in which the visual reprecussions of what you see happen does not truly convey the damage they tend to do.
They, along with knives and other street weapons, arent in Smash, but it has seemingly more to do with what weapons are associated with reality and which are associated with fantasy. We all know swords are real weapons, but its not as if they are ones someone in 2015 would use to actually defend themselves.

There will always be one unsatisfied person, but you're fooling yourself if you're not acting as you're trying to speak for this minority. It's pretty clear YOU are accounting for YOUR personal taste only.

Yeah, clearly, based on the internet, I am the one unsatisfied person.
Do you not see the irony in your position? It literally boils down to you saying, "You don't speak for the masses! I do!" It's made all the more ironic in the fact that you simply disagree with me, and you think that gives your own opinion more merit.
There is no proof in your context, and just saying something loudly does not make it accurate.

 

[NintenZ]

That's not what I mean.
I mean that Disney's in the CREDITS of D-12 but not at the start because their teams didn't help make it, unlike the KH games.
When you look at the title screens of Kingdom Hearts, you'll see a little something.
"© Disney, Developed by Square Enix."

Oh, so that does mean Roxas and Sora are owned by Disney then and they allowed Square to use them in D012, correct?

 

[Burruni]

Oh, so that does mean Roxas and Sora are owned by Disney then.

At LEAST Sora.
Roxas's case I don't actually know.
But here's how I understand it.
The rights to Sora, and the Disney sources that KH uses are owned by... Disney.
The rights to things such as Donald and Goofy's KH outfits, keyblades, created enemy designs, Org XIII, the FF sources, etc., are owned by Square Enix.
A weird contractual matter that requires both hands to sign rights to a project under it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

At LEAST Sora.
Roxas's case I don't actually know.
But here's how I understand it.
The rights to Sora, and the Disney sources that KH uses are owned by... Disney.
The rights to things such as Donald and Goofy's KH outfits, keyblades, created enemy designs, Org XIII, the FF sources, etc., are owned by Square Enix.
A weird contractual matter that requires both hands to sign rights to a project under it.

I wonder what the arrangement actually *is* in regard to KH. We have costumes and the iconic keyblade in Disney media (such as Disney Infinity). Those are definitely copywritten items, but I dont think any credit is given in Square Enix in those games. Even if Disney does not have full rights to Sora, they at least have equal rights to other properties created in Kingdom Hearts.

Who has the rights to what ideas in what context can get very confusing. In the Marvel Cinematic universe(s), Fox is the only company allowed to don the 'mutant' word. The WORD.

No it isn't. The game's core and foundation has always been shock value and gore. Even the new game has maintained this consistency: decapitating, splitting people in half, chopping them into tiny bits, mutilating their organs/body parts, and featuring horror movie murderers. Scorpion will never be in Smash Brothers. Ever.

To not acknowledge that this is the major pillar of MK is naive or biased.

Snake got in due to Kojima being friends with Sakurai. MK and him are not comparable.

I have acknowledged that the initial pillar of MK's success was to be bloody- but it is certainly not the only thing that makes it successful. That is quite diminishing of the series other merits. It also seems to imply that the games do not demonstrate depth and gameplay value, but simply rely on a cheap tactic of being gratuitously visual- which is certainly not the case.

Comparing Mortal Kombat to Metal Gear is silly when you consider that as M rated games, Metal Gear is far, far lighter than MK is.

The worst Metal Gear has is death and torture. Mortal Kombat greatly exaggerates the death to a degree where it's hard to tone down.

I will more than admit that I am playing devils advocate, but I'm not attempting to compare MK to MG- at least not overall context of the conversation. The point I am making is more comparing incorrect fan-speculation to current fan assumption (which is just as likely to be incorrect). Just because the general community deems something to be impossible does not make it so, it merely means they don't see a solution that Sakurai may see.

In regard to Mortal Kombat, I think it is possible to keep the implication of gore but still make it Nintendo-friendly. I've posed a theory or two on how- here is another. It could be so exaggerated, that it again becomes cartoony. Or hell, maybe this isnt how Sakurai would do it- but I do think he *could* do it.

 

[Geno Boost]

Do you think we will lickely have Crono mii fighter costume? I don't feel we would get it because Crono has never appeared in the newest generation of gaming in 3D, maybe square would hide him until they show him reuterning in a huge game as playable and they wants to save the huge hype for him.

 

[Burruni]

Do you think we will lickely have Crono mii fighter costume? I don't feel we would get it because Crono has never appeared in the newest generation of gaming in 3D, maybe square would hide him until they show him reuterning in a huge game as playable and they wants to save the huge hype for him.

Last time we saw Megaman X was on the PSP iirc, Chrono with the DS is not outside of the realm of possibility.

Edit: Wasn't Lloyd Irving last seen on the Wii, as well?

 

[NintenZ]

Do you think we will lickely have Crono mii fighter costume? I don't feel we would get it because Crono has never appeared in the newest generation of gaming in 3D, maybe square would hide him until they show him reuterning in a huge game as playable and they wants to save the huge hype for him.

It's not impossible, but I don't think so, however it'd be the closest thing to a Dragon Ball Z character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Last time we saw Megaman X was on the PSP iirc, Chrono with the DS is not outside of the realm of possibility.

Edit: Wasn't Lloyd Irving last seen on the Wii, as well?

Not to mention, K Rool getting an entirely unique design combining elements of his two iconic versions... also the HD.

 

[NintenZ]

What would you guys think of Nikki from Swapnote as a playable character?

 

[Burruni]

What would you guys think of Nikki from Swapnote as a playable character?

1) Double post.
2)

 

[NintenZ]

1) Double post.
2)

That wasn't a double post actually, and, oh... She's already a playable character...

 

[papagenos]

Clouds reveal is having us speculate on KH ownership and if chrono trigger might get repped in some way. Never thought these things would fall into the realm of possibility but it's pretty amazing we are here.

 

[NintenZ]

Clouds reveal is having us speculate on KH ownership and if chrono trigger might get repped in some way. Never thought these things would fall into the realm of possibility but it's pretty amazing we are here.

I swear that I always thought we'd get a Chocobo as a Final Fantasy character. (JUST LOOK AT HOW CUTE THEY ARE!!!)

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's not impossible, but I don't think so, however it'd be the closest thing to a Dragon Ball Z character.

Maybe its just me, but I think Lucario plays a lot like a Dragonball fighter would. he just happens to look like a Pokemon.

I swear that I always thought we'd get a Chocobo as a Final Fantasy character. (JUST LOOK AT HOW CUTE THEY ARE!!!)

That picture is either very endearing, or very terrorizing. It's hard for me to not see it as crosseyed.

 

[NintenZ]

Maybe its just me, but I think Lucario plays a lot like a Dragonball fighter would. he just happens to look like a Pokemon.

That picture is either very endearing, or very terrorizing. It's hard for me to not see it as crosseyed.

Fun fact, Lucario is voiced by Sean Schimeal, the same person who played Goku.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Random though, Assuming Sora is actually owned by Disney I think he'd be a great addition with Cloud here, Kingdom Hearts is popular, relevant and has multiple appearances on Nintendo consoles.

Aside from him I actually think adding Mickey mouse wouldn't be horrible, he's one of the most iconic and well known characters ever created and has managed to stay relevant in all forms of media, including video games, dating all the way back to the 80s

 

[Wolfie557]

If Mickey was added.....then that's one step closer to Gandalf! =D #Mickey4Smash

Though seriously I don't think 4th party will happen until a lot more 3rd parties join, which would be a while.
Thinking about it, a 4th-party multiplat Smash-like fighting game by Bamco would be epic.

 

[NintenZ]

If Mickey was added.....then that's one step closer to Gandalf! =D #Mickey4Smash


Though seriously I don't think 4th party will happen until a lot more 3rd parties join, which would be a while.
Thinking about it, a 4th-party multiplat Smash-like fighting game by Bamco would be epic.

I don't think 4th parties will happen at all.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yeah let's not go with 4th parties. That's just silly. We really don't want the community actually going for Goku. >_>

If we're getting a Disney character make it Sora thanks.

 

[NintenZ]

Yeah let's not go with 4th parties. That's just silly. We really don't want the community actually going for Goku. >_>

If we're getting a Disney character make it Sora thanks.

Remember on Nintenzone when we discussed Mii Costumes based off anime characters? XD

 

[Wolfie557]

I actually believe Lara Croft & Rayman are pretty overdue at this point...

Since Master Chief ain't happening, for obvious reasons.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Don't know how I'd feel about Lara. Incredibly iconic but hasn't really been relevant in years but, then again, they did let Sonic in Smash so...

 

[NintenZ]

I actually believe Lara Croft & Rayman are pretty overdue at this point...

Since Master Chief ain't happening, for obvious reasons.

I don't think we'll be getting Lara.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I actually believe Lara Croft & Rayman are pretty overdue at this point...

Since Master Chief ain't happening, for obvious reasons.

I have agreed on the Lara Croft front for a while. Not only is the series amidst an entire reboot (and of which, I am a huge fan in the added realism of humanity involved), she is a clearly iconic character and representational of a third party genre which we have not yet encapsulated in the current 3rd party roster.

Also, every straight man in the video game world would have to buy several new systems after shooting **** over ZSS v Lara.

(meanwhile, us gay guys cannot even get an actual shirtless male character, and are left feeling like pedophiles with the only option being panties-Shulk. Thanks, Sakurai. I want my mighty-man Ike in a speedo, thanks in advance for the view of his real real weapon of mass destruction).

Spoiler

I don't think we'll be getting Lara.

No offense, but it doesn't really matter what any single person thinks, does it? It is unlikely, and this is just my own hunch, that you vouched for Ryu and Cloud. Can we stop using our own thoughts as justification for anything more than what they are- thoughts of an individual?

Don't know how I'd feel about Lara. Incredibly iconic but hasn't really been relevant in years but, then again, they did let Sonic in Smash so...

I don't think any of the third party characters were at the height of their appeal when they were added. In fact, they all have been past their prime as additions. We might as well make that a third party requirement.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Maybe I'm just old but the roster for this game is just becoming more and more surreal as time goes on. The original Smash was pretty basic although the addition of Samus and Ness really surprised a lot of people, Melee brought over Japanese exclusives and a few characters that hadn't had games in thousands of years, Brawl did third parties, and this game is bringing in a good number of some of the biggest icons in gaming, period. Smash basically started as a celebration of present day Nintendo, then it's past and present, then Nintendo and it's supporting third parties, and now it's pretty much a celebration of gaming as a whole. It's like, damn, what a wild ride. Smash has become such a big deal to the gaming industry overall that I will never understand how people can think that Nintendo's just going to suddenly stop the series after this game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The original Smash was pretty basic although the addition of Samus and Ness really surprised a lot of people.

Who was surprised by Samus in SSB64? Is that who you intended to say? I feel as though you either meant Jigglypuff or Captain Falcon... Samus was not by any means a strange character for the game.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Who was surprised by Samus in SSB64? Is that who you intended to say? I feel as though you either meant Jigglypuff or Captain Falcon... Samus was not by any means a strange character for the game.

Kind of was since it was debatable at the time if Metroid was a dead franchise or not. Captain Falcon had F-Zero X in 1998 and Jigglypuff was one of the most popular Pokemon world wide at the time.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Kind of was since it was debatable at the time if Metroid was a dead franchise or not. Captain Falcon had F-Zero X in 1998 and Jigglypuff was one of the most popular Pokemon world wide at the time.

This information seems very incorrect to me.
Metroid was, at the time, the 6th top selling franchise Nintendo had.
Pokemon getting two characters was controversial, because it was so new.
Jigglypuff was also as out of character as possible, and a clear clone of Kirby (obviously the primary factor in her character description was the fact that she was a balloon).

I've never once heard the notion that Samus was a strange inclusion (and being only 8 at the time, perhaps I was not the best judge of such circumstance), but I find this to be somewhat uncredible.

 

[Deleted member]

Sora would be cool.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Don't know how I'd feel about Lara. Incredibly iconic but hasn't really been relevant in years but, then again, they did let Sonic in Smash so...

Am I missing something here because Rise of the Tomb Raider would like a word with you

Sidenote, I'd like Lara in the game but without her dual pistols she isn't lara croft although Excalibur and Thor's hammer from Legend and Underworld would be awesome

 

[Fatmanonice]

Pokemon was a run away success in Japan at the time and was already creating a firestorm of attention overseas. Samus was just kind of weird because it was debatable whether the series was dead or not. Keep in mind that plans for Metroid Prime weren't announced until 2001 so the franchise was pretty much in a 5 year hiatus at the time, which may not seem like that long nowadays but this was also back when Nintendo doing yearly updates on a good number of their franchises was far from unusual.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

(meanwhile, us gay guys cannot even get an actual shirtless male character, and are left feeling like pedophiles with the only option being panties-Shulk. Thanks, Sakurai. I want my mighty-man Ike in a speedo, thanks in advance for the view of his real real weapon of mass destruction).

Spoiler

No offense, but it doesn't really matter what any single person thinks, does it? It is unlikely, and this is just my own hunch, that you vouched for Ryu and Cloud. Can we stop using our own thoughts as justification for anything more than what they are- thoughts of an individual?

I don't think any of the third party characters were at the height of their appeal when they were added. In fact, they all have been past their prime as additions. We might as well make that a third party requirement.

True, I want TP wresting link

 

[Halifax?]

~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Fatmanonice]

If they had to go with a totally off the wall character, I'd want it to be Popeye. Donkey Kong was originally supposed to be a Popeye game but the licensing deal went to crap and thus history was made. Also, the MUGEN version of Popeye is so damn cool that I'm surprised nobody has tried to get him in a real fighting game yet.

On the topic of Cloud, I'm hoping for a lot of other Square Enix content. I'm personally hoping for SMRPG costumes or even music. In a perfect world, Chrono Trigger content would happen too but I don't know how likely that is since the game is supposedly a licensing nightmare nowadays.

 

[Ura]

Opening the floodgates for 4th party characters can never be a good thing. Just think about all the ridiculousness that would come about from doing that.

As for the whole topic of MK, I don't think it's a stretch to say that an MK character in Smash Bros could work if they just removed the blood. Has anyone ever played MK VS DC? That game was rated T and it wasn't the end of the world for the game. The heavily toned down a lot of things about the game like there being very minimal blood and other things. Same thing can be done for Smash Bros. Lets use Scorpion as an example. He can still have all his iconic moves like his spear and whatnot and the only thing that would have to be toned down is the blood.

Pokemon was a run away success in Japan at the time and was already creating a firestorm of attention overseas. Samus was just kind of weird because it was debatable whether the series was dead or not. Keep in mind that plans for Metroid Prime weren't announced until 2001 so the franchise was pretty much in a 5 year hiatus at the time, which may not seem like that long nowadays but this was also back when Nintendo doing yearly updates on a good number of their franchises was far from unusual.

LoZ had a 7 year drought of console games though from ALTTP and OoT though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Link's Awakening came out in 1993 and Ocarina of Time was known to be in development as far back as 1995 so Zelda doesn't really count.