Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Neoxon]

Well then, didn't know Brawl was rated T in murica.

Gosh why does USA have to be sooo harsh with that E10 too.

The ESRB can be weird like that.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I seriously doubt Cloud is a ballot character and even if he was there's no way he'd be the first developed, Cloud has never been that popular in the smash community. There's also the fact that Cloud was finished just a month after the ballot ended, that's a little suspicious.

I'm actually with Push on this. I seriously doubt they just started on developing the first ballot character right after it ended. Usually when it comes to ballots or polls or whatever. The majority of the votes happen within the first month or so. And the numbers come to a slow halt later until the final few days. Not only that but the polls we've seen on who voted for who is only really a minority of Smash fans and is not actually that accurate for who's on top.

And besides the stages & mii costumes I don't think the Smash team was just sitting there whistling and waiting until the ballot and then suddenly started working after it ended.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm actually with Push on this. I seriously doubt they just started on developing the first ballot character right after it ended. Usually when it comes to ballots or polls or whatever. The majority of the votes happen within the first month or so. And the numbers come to a slow halt later until the final few days. Not only that but the polls we've seen on who voted for who is only really a minority of Smash fans and is not actually that accurate for who's on top.

And besides the stages & mii costumes I don't think the Smash team was just sitting there whistling and waiting until the ballot and then suddenly started working after it ended.

We got Mii costumes after the Ballot started. They clearly have been working on stuff. Don't forget Tournament Mode and Stages. Cloud was likely worked on during some of this time. Probably near the start of the Ballot when enough votes came in to make sure Sakurai was sure he'd be popular and worth the licensing.

 

[Neoxon]

I'm actually with Push on this. I seriously doubt they just started on developing the first ballot character right after it ended. Usually when it comes to ballots or polls or whatever. The majority of the votes happen within the first month or so. And the numbers come to a slow halt later until the final few days. Not only that but the polls we've seen on who voted for who is only really a minority of Smash fans and is not actually that accurate for who's on top.

And besides the stages & mii costumes I don't think the Smash team was just sitting there whistling and waiting until the ballot and then suddenly started working after it ended.

And when you factor in the fact that the Smash Ballot was never really an election to begin with, Sakurai probably had the freedom to cherry-pick the characters that stuck out to him months ago. Cloud is most likely one of those characters, more so judging by the wording of Sakurai's tweet concerning Cloud's reveal. Besides, I doubt that we could have suggested someone mind-blowing within the last month of the Ballot who wasn't already mentioned, anyway.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I'm actually with Push on this. I seriously doubt they just started on developing the first ballot character right after it ended. Usually when it comes to ballots or polls or whatever. The majority of the votes happen within the first month or so. And the numbers come to a slow halt later until the final few days. Not only that but the polls we've seen on who voted for who is only really a minority of Smash fans and is not actually that accurate for who's on top.

And besides the stages & mii costumes I don't think the Smash team was just sitting there whistling and waiting until the ballot and then suddenly started working after it ended.

Then why make the ballot last 6 months if you aren't gonna stick to it, things can change over time and who's to say that as games have been announced the amount of votes for certain characters have increased, Chibi-Robo and Wolf are good examples of this with Zip-lash and Zero.

They weren't waiting around, they were making stages, mii costumes, balance adjustments and Cloud along with whoever that second slot belonged to.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Then why make the ballot last 6 months if you aren't gonna stick to it,

So people dont get annoyed for the months where there isn't any characters because they need to be developed.
Plus then they get all the data for future games during that extra period, which they have stated the ballot will be used for.

Just one possibility.

 

[IndigoSSB]

Then why make the ballot last 6 months if you aren't gonna stick to it, things can change over time and who's to say that as games have been announced the amount of votes for certain characters have increased, Chibi-Robo and Wolf are good examples of this with Zip-lash and Zero.

They weren't waiting around, they were making stages, mii costumes, balance adjustments and Cloud along with whoever that second slot belonged to.

The length of the ballot, despite working on characters early, could be to hold off expectations until it ends. Nintendo's not stupid, they know there'll be major expectations of SOME kind of DLC to be produced after the Ballot. And while it's possible some characters gained more popularity as time went on, that doesn't change the fact that the top contender could be determined very early on. What you're saying holds some merit, but I doubt it had a significant impact to the top contenders. (maybe Wolf, but I'm pretty sure he was just as popular before)

 

[Miikon]

Even then there are issues involving the ESRB, CERO and PEGI, as Snake could bump the age rating up.

Brawl was rated T, with Snake being one of the main reasons for it. And before you bring up Melee's T rating, the E10+ rating didn't exist when Melee came out. Sakurai & the guys at Bandai Namco bent over backwards to make Smash 4 rated E10+, even going as far as to remove Tharja's trophy.

The rating system changes over time as to what should be considered 10+ and what to consider teen. Brawl and Sm4sh has the same age rating in Europe even with the Snake difference.
It also hasn't been confirmed that Snake himself bumped the age rating and assuming so is illogical as an argument, because Brawl have atleast three elements that could be considered more offending than Snake:
Snake's codex entry on Zero Suit Samus ("Mei Ling, Samus took her clothes off!").
The realistic approach to the graphics (unlike Sm4sh's more cartoonish look).
Snake choking other fighters as a grab.

 

[aldelaro5]

....I dont; come to this thread much but how is this STILL talked?

.....Anyway, my takes is basically preballot was done since months and cloud is preballot, direct is only after ballot.

However, I don;t think all remaining slots are 100% third party (fun fact, I bet my sig on that prediction lol).

Basically, to me, it would make sense that cloud was ballot, like push said, he got top 20 on his poll and I do see why him, but I don;t think it;s something that Sakurai would have chosen on its own without any ballot consultation. Plus, the quote back in June to me implied quite enough to me that preballot was done anyway so this shouldn;t be surprising to me if he was ballot.

This implies that i think wolf chances are dead, I don;t see Sakurai putting him on the ballot decision AT ALL, he should have had priority tbh.

And while I am at it, I might as well just say that i still think paper mario chances are good. Though, with what has happened and how difficult it is to speculate, it's too difficult to compare chances. I coudl say kkr has chances......but I feel the costumes reduced them.......which makes it really hard to tell how likely he is compared to others.

Same for inklings, yes they have chances, but costumes and......well this is becoming less of a problem, but on long term would sakurai want it? or it;s just a dlc solution that will be fine for short term?

So, i can;t say who will go first, i can only say that the 3 characters I jsut mentioned has chances after ballot, that I think wolf is very unlikely and that I don;t think all remaining character will be third party.

.....that's it, I can;t really say much more because you go into discussions that I need to know more to answer.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

Just throwing this out there:
Are we still make up rules for other characters.....to think they will get proven wrong later. We just can't predict this man this has proven many times throughout Smash 4 development. I know it's just speculating but com'on guys we can't believe everything we say I myself given on fandom rules quite some time ago until Sakurai or Nintendo says otherwise I'm not believing no one says till proven further. It's like are fan rules even possible to listen to anymore?

 

[Wolfie557]

Just throwing this out there:
Are we still make up rules for other characters.....to think they will get proven wrong later. We just can't predict this man this has proven many times throughout Smash 4 development. I know it's just speculating but com'on guys we can't believe everything we say I myself given on fandom rules quite some time ago until Sakurai or Nintendo says otherwise I'm not believing no one says till proven further.

Yh. I'm not believing the rule of 'iconic big-name 3rd parties' just because that is the current pattern.

And heck, I actually believe someone like Banjo or Master Chief have at least a small chance. - I previously thought MS 1st party's would never ever be even possible.

 

[Deleted member]

They already did with the Titan/Mutant games.

Activision didn't own Crash until late in Mind Over Mutant's development. Still, I'm not sure if I'd like another Crash game published by them.

 

[Clipse]

I thought maybe this new poll help to the discussion

To try to make results similar to the Ballot, I made a brainstorm poll, where people can vote what they voted already in the official Ballot, and if your character is not there, they can always add it and people can vote for it later. Like this, it gives more options than a close poll, and we can see closer results to the Smash Ballot.

Here is the poll:
https://www.tricider.com/brainstorming/2srOXE2n99x

Im gonna leave the poll open until the broadcast this december. Its a free server for polls... so sometimes is going down because many people are on it, but you can always check on it later. Its already more than 750 votes.

This is the results some hours ago... it's already changed, (King K. Rool is number 3, shantae is number 5, schovel knight 7. Sora is going up really quick now as well) But nothing is stopping Isaac from the number one :O

Anyway, I hope this is usefull for discussion. I will publish the final results on the website before the broadcast

 

[IndigoSSB]

Yh. I'm not believing the rule of 'iconic big-name 3rd parties' just because that is the current pattern

I would literally lose my **** if we start using this as an iron clad rule in our predictions, and then come December Direct Sakurai throws us for a loop by adding the most generic, 1st party character as DLC.

 

[NintenZ]

I don't follow your logic.

It's because he's from an M rated game and could thus raise the rating.

 

[Kenith]

It's because he's from an M rated game and could thus raise the rating.

This game involves genocide and shooting and exploding human beings with real guns with no levity whatsoever.
E10+.

Snake would not influence the rating.

 

[Bowserlick]

Bomberman is an iconic puzzle-game character. I think there is a chance he can be in.

 

[Wolfie557]

It's because he's from an M rated game and could thus raise the rating.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Background does not matter, it's how character is implemented in Smash.

Bomberman is an iconic puzzle-game character. I think there is a chance he can be in.

I would feel so sad if he or SimonB comes in before Snake is back..

 

[pupNapoleon]

Can we talk about Bomberman again?
Apparently, in late October, it was just announced he would be getting a mobile game.
My hope is that this is in some partnership with Nintendo.

To me, he and Banjo are still so Nintendo, that I yearn for them.
I may be stretching, but I do think he would be more hype than Cloud.

I dont thifnk the next characters are bound to be more 'wtf' than Cloud... I think Cloud was our bow out to that idea.
That said, I do think the most satisfying thing we could see is some Nintendo action. Even in the base game, we had exactly 2 'legacy' Nintendo characters who were new- DHD and Little Mac.

Other than that, we have had no Nintendo-history-power since Brawl.

EDIT: I made that post from page 42. Honestly, the universe is screaming Bomberman to me.

 

[Deleted member]

I still can't wrap my head around Cloud being in. It's surreal and so cool!

 

[Alice Margatroid]

If there's something I learned, "leaks" are fake 99.9% percent of the time, so don't believe it. The pic was taken with a crappy camera anyway, he could've just Print Screened it.

I second this.

At this point it's a lot better for everyone involved to just ignore leaks permanently.

 

[LIQUID12A]

You can fake anything on a website if you have access to the source code.

Watch.

Spoiler: apologies kenith

Yeah, I'm inconsistent, I know. Just demonstrating.

So really, there's no reason for "website leaks" to be believed.

 

[Burruni]

You can fake anything on a website if you have access to the source code.

Watch.

Spoiler: apologies kenith

View attachment 83141

Yeah, I'm inconsistent, I know. Just demonstrating.

So really, there's no reason for "website leaks" to be believed.

I dun get it.
That's some genu-INE KtG there.
What's the issue?

 

[LIQUID12A]

I dun get it.
That's some genu-INE KtG there.
What's the issue?

I'm pretty sure there's a joke I'm missing, but I changed his name to KenithTheEdger, title to OW THE EDGE, his location, the actual content in the post and the amount of users who liked said post from 6 to 99.

It's not an issue, just showing how easy this is to fake.

 

[Deleted member]

You can fake anything on a website if you have access to the source code.

Watch.

Spoiler: apologies kenith

View attachment 83141

Yeah, I'm inconsistent, I know. Just demonstrating.

So really, there's no reason for "website leaks" to be believed.

This made laugh harder than i thought...

 

[Ura]

As someone said in this thread, there's no reason why characters from the Smash Ballot can't be selected during different time intervals. I really see no reason for the ballot to be opened for 6 months straight when you can use results the following week. Just think about how many people voted in the first week the Smash Ballot was opened. Why wouldn't you start right away with that many people?

Also, there seems to be a debate as to whether or not Cloud is a ballot character or not. I personally believe he is given what I said in the above paragraph. I assume that he was one of the earliest choices in the ballot thus leaving a lot of time for things like licensing and stuff.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The problem is that Konami & Nintendo's relationship went down the toilet in recent years (plus the potential censoring issues concerning the game's E10+ rating). Compare that to the positive working relationship Nintendo has with Sega (who gave Nintendo a 3-game exclusivity deal for Sonic, as well as working with Nintendo on the Mario-Sonic Olympic crossovers on a regular basis), Bandai Namco (who works with Nintendo on games quite often, three of which being Smash 4, Mario Kart 8 to a smaller extent, & now Pokkén Tournament), Capcom (Nintendo helps Capcom localize & advertise the mainline Monster Hunter games in exchange for Nintendo exclusivity), & Square-Enix (Nintendo also helps them out with localizing & advertising some of their 3DS games, mainly the Bravely Default series). You can see why I have my doubts concerning Snake in Smash 4.

Are you speculating that that's why Snake got kicked out? I don't necessarily agree with that. Based on the respective websites:

Smash Wii U is rated E10+ because of: Comic Mischief, Cartoon Violence, and Mild Suggestive Themes.

Smash Bros. Brawl was rated Teen because of: Cartoon Violence and Crude Humor

Neither of the reasons for Brawl indicate anything against Snake. If it did, it would have listed something a bit more specific I would think in terms of the violence. Even then, why wouldn't they just edit 2 moves from his moveset?

If we're speaking in terms of Konami being to blame for their lack of a partnership, that seems like it's falling a little back on the whole "relationship with Nintendo" thing. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean I honestly see it more as a situation at this point where we have a character that could easily fit in with the rest of the 3rd parties, could bring a stage and is highly requested.

I understand why people feel that way, but I think there's more to it. I disagree that it's the rating, and Konami working with Nintendo as far as the Hudson IP's go at least indicates that they can do business. I don't really know that there's bad blood necessarily.

I think our next third-party character will be a character that comes from the West, but is well known enough by Japanese audiences to sell well and not be obscure. I predict Rayman or Shantae.

Rayman I can see, but Shantae? No way.

 

[jigglesthepuff]

We have a game where Mario, Sonic, Pacman, Ryu, Mega Man, and Cloud are all in the same game. We could get any video game character at this point.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Nothing has changed for Wolf...sooooooo not really sure why people are giving up on him.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If you think about it, all the third party characters in/that have been in Smash are iconic ones who rep a different (sub)genre of games
Sonic - Action Platformer
Snake - Stealth
Mega Man - Side-scrolling Shooter
Pac-Man - Arcade/Puzzle
Ryu - Fighting
Cloud - RPG
What genres do that leave us with? FPS, Racing, Survival Horror, Collectathon, etc
Who would be the most iconic characters from each of these genres that belong to series which have history with Nintendo?

Someone put Mario in the "Collectathon" field... wrong. Oh my.
Open World is a pretty poignant type of genre too... and I would say this goes to Minecraft Steve
But other genres? There are too many if we are getting this specific.
Just like with movies- we can go with basic ones- Comedy, Action, Thriller, Drama...
or we can get more specific- Superhero (which isnt a genre despite common belief), with Psychological Thriller, Horror, Gore...
or we can get Netflix specific, wherein we have categories such as, "Mother-Lesbian Heartfelt Misfortune."

We got Mii costumes after the Ballot started. They clearly have been working on stuff. Don't forget Tournament Mode and Stages. Cloud was likely worked on during some of this time. Probably near the start of the Ballot when enough votes came in to make sure Sakurai was sure he'd be popular and worth the licensing.

They were absolutely working on characters in this big lapse of time since E3.
Please, for the love of god, will a programmer come in and explain that a Mii costume takes ten minutes to make?
100 of them is probably less work than one character.

And when you factor in the fact that the Smash Ballot was never really an election to begin with, Sakurai probably had the freedom to cherry-pick the characters that stuck out to him months ago. Cloud is most likely one of those characters, more so judging by the wording of Sakurai's tweet concerning Cloud's reveal. Besides, I doubt that we could have suggested someone mind-blowing within the last month of the Ballot who wasn't already mentioned, anyway.

The internet claims to know anything about the ballot- how it worked, what the most voted characters are...
yet there are so many variables therein, it is truly ridiculous that anyone takes it as anything more than a speckle of speculation. (Hmm.... etymological reference??)

I DO personally have little faith but high hope, that maybe... each vote somehow was read.
Its a bit strange, but I truly think that if Sakurai read my statements about Pokemon Trainer, he might get a surge of inspiration as to how to make the character work. I truly believe that he wanted the character in himself, not just the Pokemon changing mechanic. He knows it is important to capture the essence of a series, and I do not believe he is happy with Pokemon in its current standing.

Then why make the ballot last 6 months if you aren't gonna stick to it, things can change over time and who's to say that as games have been announced the amount of votes for certain characters have increased, Chibi-Robo and Wolf are good examples of this with Zip-lash and Zero.

They weren't waiting around, they were making stages, mii costumes, balance adjustments and Cloud along with whoever that second slot belonged to.

They definitely were not waiting around, but nothing we have seen thus far is indicative of how much time they have been working. Nothing. The mii costumes take a minute, the stages take two. We havent had many characters announced.

I do believe the Miiverse and Mario stages did require a lot of time; I also believe Tournament mode was a bit more of a challenge they they initially had thought.
But I cannot fathom those being all that time consuming. Unless we have a team of five, it just doesnt make sense.

 

[zabimaru1000]

I've been saying Cloud was the most natural SE rep since September...



But I can see Sora getting in eventually (he's owned by Disney, not SE). Sora would fit in perfectly in Smash, IMO.

As a Kingdom Hearts fan, I do not see Sora getting in by himself alone. He will need assistance from Disney to make his inclusion more meaningful than just being a secondary Square Enix JRPG protagonist compared to Cloud. If Cloud is a SE rep, then Sora will have to be a Disney rep.

This means a King Mickey trophy and one of the Disney inspired worlds, and Disney music from the game should be included with him. My idea of a stage would be Traverse Town with Donald, Goofy, and the Heartless making cameo appearances.

That is if Disney would even allow Nintendo to use Kingdom Hearts. Before Cloud's reveal this idea would be impossible, but now it's half possible due to Square Enix getting on board. With that said, I will be ecstatic if Sora and Cloud can fight in a game other than Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Burruni]

I'm pretty sure there's a joke I'm missing, but I changed his name to KenithTheEdger, title to OW THE EDGE, his location, the actual content in the post and the amount of users who liked said post from 6 to 99.

It's not an issue, just showing how easy this is to fake.

It was raw sarcasm. Tried to make it clear. Good job.

Nothing has changed for Wolf...sooooooo not really sure why people are giving up on him.

Because getting a veteran at this point wouldn't be hype enough.
That's the logic I've heard.
Because, y'know, it's not like a Veteran like Wolf isn't going to sell just about as well as a newcomer with a fraction of the work and please a massive amount of the fanbase.

 

[MagnesD3]

Nothing has changed for Wolf...sooooooo not really sure why people are giving up on him.

Its the fact this is the last smash presentation and the fact we have never received more than 3 characters of dlc at a time. Then there is the fact we dont know if cloud was a poll character or not because it really doesnt sense to most people that ive seen around. Point is Wolf fans are mostly screwed because the bulk of his fandom is from the west and japans wants are more important to him (Lucas and Roys games are japan only and a large bulk of their fanbase is from japan). Its the same reason I think Banjo Kazooie doesnt stand a chance either, he was developed in the west and Rare was a famous western company all his 3rd parties have all been from Japan his fandom is mostly in japan so I doubt he gets in even though he most likely polled high like wolf.

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

Nothing has changed for Wolf...sooooooo not really sure why people are giving up on him.

With the very little 'slots' we have and the rumor of December being the last DLC pack, I understand why some people are losing hope. Smash fans are hungry for newcomers and newcomers only.
He still stands a good shot but at this point, I really don't know.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't know man. The negativity is silly imo.

As I posted yesterday, there's nothing to worry about. Yeah, we got a really hype character with Cloud. It's going to be tough to outdo that. But there's plenty of ways to do that. Wolf and Snake are top wants. So is K.Rool. There are 2 slots in the data, but when would they only do 7 characters when they could do an 8th and have two even packs?

First pack is Mewtwo, Ryu, Roy and Lucas. Second pack can be Cloud, Wolf, Snake and the Ballot Winner. Wolf and Snake finish off vets pretty nicely, K.Rool satisfies the popular vote in the ballot...there you go.

I see no reason to bring back the others but not Wolf. People are getting way too negative and not considering everything. Just chill.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

So if Cloud got into Smash, then does that mean any iconic character with a series which has been on Nintendo systems is possible? Because, if that's the case, then Scorpion from Mortal Kombat is the only other character I could see that would generate more hype from Cloud. It would be amazing to see all the reactions. The Internet would probably explode!

 

[Burruni]

So if Cloud got into Smash, then does that mean any iconic character with a series which has been on Nintendo systems is possible? Because, if that's the case, then Scorpion from Mortal Kombat is the only other character I could see that would generate more hype from Cloud. It would be amazing to see all the reactions. The Internet would probably explode!

Ignoring the matter of getting a character from the series famous for the fatalities that arguably kickstarted the demand for gaming rating systems in the US.
A) Scorpion isn't a character that people have said "It'd be awesome, but he's too much of a Sony character," like . I feel like you are HIGHLY up-playing his hype.
B) . We already got the king of fighting games as DLC for this game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I wonder if Ridley will be the big finale...

 

[Roaring Salsa]

Why Scorpion when you can have Sub-Zero? Ice moveset ftw

I wonder what were Sakurai's thoughts when Phil Spencer tweeted he'd be okay with Banjo and the huge Banjo outburst that happened soon after that

 

[MagnesD3]

I wonder if Ridley will be the big finale...

Nope.