Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Deleted member]

Looks like Minecraft is the big announcement still pretty cool.

 

[Dark Phazon]

It was today and it was Minecraft...

Ow . . . . .

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yes. But the argument of it becoming "Fanfic-y" isn't a good one when THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE SERIES.

The point was to put Nintendo characters together to kick each other's ***

While I agree that it was already "fanfictiony" before, those third parties just keep breaking the limits.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

He was chosen as a veteran. But I was just making the point that he HAS been seen in some notable role since 2001/2, excluding his two-line cameo at the end of FE7.

He was chosen due to his popularity.

And my point was that the DLC role wasn't notable in terms of exposure to younger kids.

 

[Aetheri]

And another thing regarding the Inklings and limiting their ink usage for Smash...

Remember that in Pikmin, Olimar can have up to 30 pikmin running doing stuff for him (at once he can have more doing other things) but in this game he can only use three...Even with a limited amount of ink terrain the Inklings would still make for a unique character, just based on the different weapons they use...and a half dozen options for their final smash to boot...

Edit: Characters can be buffed/nerfed in between titles...

 

[Burruni]

And another thing regarding the Inklings and limiting their ink usage for Smash...

Remember that in Pikmin, Olimar can have up to 30 pikmin running doing stuff for him (at once he can have more doing other things) but in this game he can only use three...Even with a limited amount of ink terrain the Inklings would still make for a unique character, just based on the different weapons they use...and a half dozen options for their final smash to boot...

Uhm.
You've been playing the wrong game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Uhm.
You've been playing the wrong game.

It proves his point even more!

If Sakurai managed to make a moveset out of a guy that uses 100 Pikmin by crippling him to only 3 at once, why couldn't he make the Inklings possible?

 

[Jterr]

People thought is was going to be Smash news today... but its Minecraft for Wii U. Still pretty awesome

 

[Polan]

The point was to put Nintendo characters together to kick each other's ***

While I agree that it was already "fanfictiony" before, those third parties just keep breaking the limits.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Literally read the first sentence of that post.

"but if Sakurai did want to bring in a Microsoft owned character, am I the only one who thinks he’d might go with this guy?"
"if Sakurai did"
"if"

You're literally putting words in people's mouth

In what way am I putting words in someone's mouth? I'm commenting on what people are speculating. Halo, as a franchise, has no history with Nintendo, this isn't like Banjo Kazooie. Or do you just reply to my posts because you want to make me look like a jerk? Cut it out dude

 

[Z1GMA]

People thought is was going to be Smash news today... but its Minecraft for Wii U. Still pretty awesome

No, it's definitely Ridley for DLC.
Why else would they do this play on Words-thingy with the word big ?
They did put quotation marks around the word big - This announcement is gonna be "big", and Sakurai is very familiar with the saying "Ridley is too big".

There you have it, folks

 

[Opossum]

This is a quick reminder that Minecraft U discussion does not belong here and any further posts talking about it will be treated as spam. This thread is for Smash DLC exclusively.

 

[Jterr]

This is a quick reminder that Minecraft U discussion does not belong here and any further posts talking about it will be treated as spam. This thread is for Smash DLC exclusively.

...Sorry

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Am I the only one who feels like we already have enough third party characters (except for Snake returning)? I'd rather see more Nintendo newcomers.

No, you're not. I'd rather have only Nintendo newcomers for now on.

 

[Jterr]

This is a quick reminder that Minecraft U discussion does not belong here and any further posts talking about it will be treated as spam. This thread is for Smash DLC exclusively.

I am a Chrom supporter too, he should have been in the game over his daughter. He got disrespected imo.
Its one of the things that annoys me in Smash 4... And if you're going to put Lucina out of all the FE characters, at least don't make her a clone....

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

We all kind of knew Minecraft was coming at some point in time, if anything we were just waiting for confirmation of that. I'm starting to doubt will get news on that Special Broadcast any time soon more than likely will get it next week just in time for holidays.

 

[IndigoSSB]

In what way am I putting words in someone's mouth? I'm commenting on what people are speculating. Halo, as a franchise, has no history with Nintendo, this isn't like Banjo Kazooie. Or do you just reply to my posts because you want to make me look like a jerk? Cut it out dude

I don't reply to people just to slander them. That's pointless.

You told us to use a little bit of common sense because Master Chief is nearly impossible as DLC. Nobody has even suggested that he's possible, we're all speaking hypothetically.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

He got disrespected imo.

I don't want Chrom to Smash but I still agree with this. Mainly because "No point having two characters that are pretty much carbon copies" when we literally have two characters that are carbon copies.

 

[Ura]

I prefer having Lucina over Chrom personally. Chrom is a bit overrated if you ask me.

 

[Burruni]

I am a Chrom supporter too, he should have been in the game over his daughter. He got disrespected imo.
Its one of the things that annoys me in Smash 4... And if you're going to put Lucina out of all the FE characters, at least don't make her a clone....

Chrom got more disservice than was justified.
However.
"He should have been in the game over his daughter."
Lucina wasn't his competition. It was Robin.
Lucina was going to be in the game just as a costume until late into the works and skimmed by because of it.
Chrom could've worked as his own fighter. Especially if they up played the Shield/Buckler of the Fire Emblem and his potency in Lances. But Robin just showed more promise.
I will gladly take Lucina as a barely changed clone than Chrom as one.

 

[Halifax?]

Also, TFW characters can't be complex and then stages can be ****ing Midgar and SMM.

There are stage developers and there are character developers. Character team's been grinding savagely for 12 months. Yeah, veterans take less time ... same for veteran stages. Stage team just tweaks, makes an FD clone, and art team slaps a skin on. They've had loads of time to develop Super Mario Maker, Midgar, and whatever else comes. Very excited to see what's left in store.

Also curious how the art team's been ... somebody's drawing all these characters, stages, Mii costumes, trophies, etc. Surely they work the fastest, wonder what they've been up to the past year?

 

[Jterr]

I don't want Chrom to Smash but I still agree with this. Mainly because "No point having two characters that are pretty much carbon copies" when we literally have two characters that are carbon copies.

Exactly. Its like we don't want Carbon copies but you make Lucina a clone... smh

 

[IndigoSSB]

The problem with Chrom was, at least to an outsider unaware of FE lore, that he didn't really bring anything new to the table. I'm sure Sakurai would have been able to make a new moveset for him, but at the end of the day he would have just been another swordsmen. Robin was just a more appealing choice, since he could represent aspects of FE the other Lords could not.

And to be fair Lucina was originally a Marth alt (which I would have preferred, so I could play as her with a tipper mechanic >_>)

 

[Burruni]

Inklings would cost the most development of any character. Ink could disappear rapidly. Could use the uninkable surface concept for moving platforms, walkoffs, and other complex territory. Could use the Splatzone concept to segment stages into pieces of inkable and uninkable surfaces. On Dreamland, Whispy's wind could disperse the ink. Sakurai surely wants to do every character justice and explore their potential ...

What a pain in the ***. Dev team would revisit every stage & omega, custom stage, Master Fortress, and god knows what else to utilize the ink. It's truly up to Nintendo whether they devote time to such a large project, half-*** it, or set it free for another day. If we get a fully functioning Inkling, Sakurai deserves a standing ovation.


In theory sure, but there are stage developers and there are character developers. Imagine the character team grinding savagely for 12 months. Yeah, veterans take less time than newcomers ... same for veteran stages. Stage team just tweaks, makes an FD clone, and art team slaps a skin on. They've had loads of time to develop Super Mario Maker, Midgar, and whatever else comes. Very excited to see not only the character finale, but the stage finale as well (if it's Midgar that's still cool).

Also curious how busy the art team has been ... Somebody's been drawing all these characters, stages, Mii costumes, trophies, etc. Surely art team works faster than the character and stage teams. Wonder what they've been working on the past year?

Or...
Y'know.
Give an ink special the same properties of , only applying to the first surface that is under it.

"Inklings would cost the most development of any character."
No.
Effectively speaking, any 3rd Party would in the pay of legal staff for the contractual negotiations and of course any payments that are part of the contract itself.
They may take some extra work to get Ink to go because they're such a unique fighter, certainly. But you have a model which is already perfect for Smash which could be transfered between wings of Nintendo. While this may be argued for 's from SFIV, and by a stretch from FF7 HD, the advent children model for Cloud alone would've been more model work and the work in balancing animations for the raw size of the Buster Blade (seen in how he grips the blade during his jumps even through spins) would be around the base work of say, the squid model and fluidly transitioning for what limited moves would require it.

 

[Jterr]

Chrom got more disservice than was justified.
However.
"He should have been in the game over his daughter."
Lucina wasn't his competition. It was Robin.
Lucina was going to be in the game just as a costume until late into the works and skimmed by because of it.
Chrom could've worked as his own fighter. Especially if they up played the Shield/Buckler of the Fire Emblem and his potency in Lances. But Robin just showed more promise.
I will gladly take Lucina as a barely changed clone than Chrom as one.

Robin is a nice choice to me because he's a unique fighter; wields swords and magic. Although I wish we had a FE Smash character who wielded something different from swords, such as Hector with Axes or Ephraim with Lances...
I always thought Chrom would be faster than Ike but slower than Marth. Just not a clone of Marth.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Exactly. Its like we don't want Carbon copies but you make Lucina a clone... smh

I was referring to Pit and Dark Pit. Marth and Lucina look very similar but aren't exact carbon copies.

 

[Jterr]

The problem with Chrom was, at least to an outsider unaware of FE lore, that he didn't really bring anything new to the table. I'm sure Sakurai would have been able to make a new moveset for him, but at the end of the day he would have just been another swordsmen. Robin was just a more appealing choice, since he could represent aspects of FE the other Lords could not.

And to be fair Lucina was originally a Marth alt (which I would have preferred, so I could play as her with a tipper mechanic >_>)

The prob

I was referring to Pit and Dark Pit. Marth and Lucina look very similar but aren't exact carbon copies.

Well I'm not as upset with Dark Pit as a clone. Sure, I would have liked him to be an alternate costume of Pit, but Dark Pit is an ACTUAL Clone of Pit (If you've played Kid Icarus Uprising) so him being a clone makes more sense than Lucina, although I wish he wielded his staff more besides in his Final Smash. Lucina and Chrom are part of Marth's bloodline, but Lucy is a unique character and is different than Marth in Fire Emblem.

 

[Burruni]

Robin is a nice choice to me because he's a unique fighter; wields swords and magic. Although I wish we had a FE Smash character who wielded something different from swords, such as Hector with Axes or Ephraim with Lances...
I always thought Chrom would be faster than Ike but slower than Marth. Just not a clone of Marth.

He'd share more similarities to Ike, if you look at their builds. The fighting style was largely his own, however.

But.
You want a FE character that doesn't just rely on swords?

Swords and Staves from Trickster.
Lances from Merchant.
Bows from Outlaw (has one named after her)
Hidden weapons from Puppeteer.
Tomes from Witch.

Everything BUT Axes, as of late.

Edit: Has appeared in every FE game but Gaiden.
Even appears in SMT x FE
Developer favorite to use.
Known for variety and flexibility for writing.
A staple of the franchise.
...In short, go Anna.

 

[Aetheri]

Uhm.
You've been playing the wrong game.

Or not played it enough....I've messed around with a couple multiplayer modes on Pikmin 3 here and there with one of my buddies...but I haven't put any serious hours into the game...

Either way my point still stands and that merely reinforces it further...

 

[Jterr]

He'd share more similarities to Ike, if you look at their builds. The fighting style was largely his own, however.

But.
You want a FE character that doesn't just rely on swords?

Swords and Staves from Trickster.
Lances from Merchant.
Bows from Outlaw (has one named after her)
Hidden weapons from Puppeteer.
Tomes from Witch.

Everything BUT Axes, as of late.

Yeah, Chrom is built more like Ike. I wanted more FE characters from previous FE games
We have 2 Characters from Awakening
1 from Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem
1 from the Tellius games (PoR/RD)
And the classes you're talking about is from Fates right? Fates isn't even out yet everywhere so other classes would be better imo...
I would like Ephraim from Sacred Stones, Hector from Rekka no Ken, even Micaiah from Radiant Dawn. Anna would be interesting, she is popular and one of the oldest FE characters....

 

[ccthirteen]

I'm holding out hope that the Smash Bros Nintendo Direct will be released later tonight with the announcement of Cloud a possibly another couple of characters being available to download. If they follow the same format as the last DLC release, it'll be one newcomer and two returning fighters. Personally, I had always hoped for Issac (Golden Sun) or Banjo-Kazooie or both. Never thought Cloud would be announced until it happened. Especially after a little joke one of my friends made back in Brawl days. He sent me a message online saying "Confirmed! Cloud will be in Brawl!" with a link. I excitedly clicked it only to see a snapshot of two fighters in one of the stages with an arrow pointing to a cloud in the background.

If they did follow the same pattern as the last DLC release and put two returning fighters back in wit Cloud, I believe the first pick would obviously be Wolf, but I don't know if they would bring Snake back. They've expressed their inability to bring Ice Climbers back into the fold, so that leaves the possibility of Squirtle or Venusaur as a standalone character. But, there's enough Pokemon representation in Smash 4 already.

 

[Jterr]

I'm holding out hope that the Smash Bros Nintendo Direct will be released later tonight with the announcement of Cloud a possibly another couple of characters being available to download. If they follow the same format as the last DLC release, it'll be one newcomer and two returning fighters. Personally, I had always hoped for Issac (Golden Sun) or Banjo-Kazooie or both. Never thought Cloud would be announced until it happened. Especially after a little joke one of my friends made back in Brawl days. He sent me a message online saying "Confirmed! Cloud will be in Brawl!" with a link. I excitedly clicked it only to see a snapshot of two fighters in one of the stages with an arrow pointing to a cloud in the background.

If they did follow the same pattern as the last DLC release and put two returning fighters back in wit Cloud, I believe the first pick would obviously be Wolf, but I don't know if they would bring Snake back. They've expressed their inability to bring Ice Climbers back into the fold, so that leaves the possibility of Squirtle or Venusaur as a standalone character. But, there's enough Pokemon representation in Smash 4 already.

I do miss Squirtle and Ivysaur but we have a lot of Pokemon in Smash lol

 

[A Distant Demon]

Reminder that keeping the clones alt when you have the ability to upgrade them for free is a terrible choice. More options are pretty much always superior

It is still a pipe dream of mine to have lucina radically decloned. By pairing up with chrom

2 fighters 1 hitbox. Crazy duo moves.

. . . Basically what Pxzone 2 did with them

 

[Jterr]

Reminder that keeping the clones alt when you have the ability to upgrade them for free is a terrible choice. More options are pretty much always superior

It is still a pipe dream of mine to have lucina radically decloned. By pairing up with chrom

2 fighters 1 hitbox. Crazy duo moves.

. . . Basically what Pxzone 2 did with them

Yeah, more options are more superior but I did not want Lucina in the game (I love her in Awakening) and the fact she's a clone is just like bruh

 

[Burruni]

Yeah, Chrom is built more like Ike. I wanted more FE characters from previous FE games
We have 2 Characters from Awakening
1 from Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem
1 from the Tellius games (PoR/RD)
And the classes you're talking about is from Fates right? Fates isn't even out yet everywhere so other classes would be better imo...
I would like Ephraim from Sacred Stones, Hector from Rekka no Ken, even Micaiah from Radiant Dawn. Anna would be interesting, she is popular and one of the oldest FE characters....

Issues of characters from older Fire Emblem games.
1) Recency. With a series that is changing casts every game or two. Sad to say but this will always be a huge factor. You won't hear a lot of requests for the likes of Sigurd when he was up there with Marth for Melee.

2) The series itself was very niche pre-Awakening. was and is the flagship lord. got LUCKY and has stuck because of veteranism. is a fan favorite and the only other Lord to star in more than one game. My Unit in FE12 and more polished in 13 from the most well-off game of the series? We knew we were getting an Awakening character because of its success, you couldn't have had that certainty with Ike. is Roy II in terms of situations. You are effectively locked for the most pronounced recent protagonist or, you try to stretch for the two characters of the series that have fan and maker popularity alongside MULTIPLE apperances: Tiki and Anna. Anyone else is just too small of an impact in the field.

3) Trickster was in Awakening. Merchant was in Awakening as non-playable, including the Apotheosis Anna who is the hardest boss of the FE series to date. The others were from Fates, because recency is SUCH a major thing with this series and Smash. But if I extended the points to Assassin or Bride, you'd get Bows either way. The tomes from her Mage classes. All you lose are the Hidden Weapons from Fates itself.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sure the Direct will be soon, whoever the characters are at the point, should be exciting. I can see Banno-Kazooie's chances being very high.

 

[Halifax?]

The process includes contracts, sure. Nintendo doesn't send Jerry the coder from character dev to negotiate with Phil Spencer about using Microsoft IP though. Jerry's paid to work at the office on characters as a developer.

I agree Ryu and Cloud were no laughing matter, art guys had their work cut out. Character devs just made another moveset though with some extra moves and inputs. Stage devs just made another stage for art team to skin.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Slippery Slope:




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

I see no slippery slope fallacy in anything I've said. I haven't even suggested or resorted to that form of thinking in any form in this argument.

Be more careful, and don't use terms you don't understand.

Anyway, my point is simple, and before we continue, I simply want you to define one word for me, since that os the crux of this whole conundrum.

What is "relevance?"

Give me an objective, context sensitive for this word, definition for this word.



Under this definition, all videogame characters that fit Sakurai's criteria are "relevant."

Because the problem lies in people misusing the term, and applying it subjectively to mean anything from "recent" to "I'm not fully aware of this character, and I don't like them, thus they aren't "relevant".

You said the people in the video aren't an accurate representation of gamers, yet you had a couple people who clearly stated thry played video games, yet failed to recognize the villager, among other characters.

Sure, they're casual gamers, but they are gamers nonetheless.

In addition, I can assure you that most non-Nintendo fans would be unable to recognize Marth, Ike, Shulk, etc... yet to you, they're still "relevant."

Alright, then perhaps we should narrow our scope to just Nintendo fans, but as I showed you, a large part of Nintendo's audience was unable to name the characters. And in fact, there are many Nintendo fans, who buy Smash, who don't know a large part of the cast. And that's not even accounting for generational differences, which I'll get to in a moment.

So then, should we narrow our scope to only include hard core Nintendo and Smash fans? Why? And why should tge subjective opinion of a vocal fanbase be the only one to be heard, especially when that opinion is not very representative of the broader Nintendo fanbase, let alone most gamers, both audiences that Nintendo would sure be glad to draw in if possible (hence Cloud getting in, and a lot of -younger- Smash fans getting upset that he got in over "muh Waddle Dee"). What's "relevant" the small core, isn't true in the slightest for the larger outer layers.

Likewise, the Smash fanbase itself is divided on what's "relevant" due to generational differences. For the younger kids characters like Rayman and Master Chief are more "relevant" than Banjo, Mega Man, and such simply cause they grew up with the former, and never experienced the peak of Banjo, or Mega Man, etc... and then backwards rationalize their assumptions through groupthink (aka, they bandwagon in order to fit in) once certain characters get in, and those them become "great gaming icons " [see reactions to: Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Nan, etc..]. But the fact of the matter is, Banjo isn't "relevant" to some, in the same way Mega Man isn't, as they are merely experienced after their decline in popularity, but for all the people who were alive then, we can confirm that Banjo was AS BIG a gaming icon as Mega Man, and Rare as reputable in the industry as Capcom. These were the giants back then, and because if this, they are "relevant" to us.

So, can you see now why "relevance" is such a weak argument due to it's purely subjective nature? It means absolutely nothing. Unless you can provide me with a concrete and objective definition, it's simply not a proactive form to debate anything, and only winds up in circular arguments.

tl;dr - there is no slipperly slope in my reasoning, check your terms more carefully, and "relevance" is a weak argument due to it's purely subjective mature thanks to the constant misuse of the term. Using that to back up your POV is completely unmeritable and pointless.

Your logic was a slippery slope fallacy because you are stating if smaller franchises within the Nintendo community aren't relevant because most Nintendo fans don't know them, then larger icons in gaming such as Cloud, Ryu and Megaman must not be relevant because most "general gamers" don't know them and so on.

Like I said in the last post, you are moving the goalposts by changing the definition of a relevant character to one that the general public would know. You ignored my example of the Mario Bros being "pop-culture" icons which is a higher standard than "gaming" icons.

Pop culture icons are relevant to anyone who is exposed to pop culture, gaming icons are relevant to anyone exposed to gaming.

However, gaming icons are usually divided by the genre or system a player is exposed to. Most people who play CoD or Halo will have trouble listing Nintendo characters. And conversely, most Nintendo fans will have trouble identifying Kratos or Master Chief. Are we suddenly assuming that these characters aren't relevant because only a section of a community knows them?

Even so, owning a Nintendo console doesn't mean you know what every series is. The group of asian teenagers (excuse me if this is a tad racist) had one who could identify every Pokémon playable in Smash, but failed to identify characters such as Kirby. This is probably because he only played specifically Pokémon or possibly because he knows Pokémon as a pop culture icon itself.

I must also note that you consistently cite the irrelevancy on Nintendo First Parties (and falsely assume I believe all of them are relevant), when Burruni was referring to a Third Party character. Relevancy may not apply to first parties, but it can for third parties.

I have no issue with saying relevancy isn't that important of a factor. In my original reply to you, I said relevancy was more that the fan base or developers still find a character important. Pretty much meaning a fan base must still exist. This comes from the general popularity of a character.

The longer the public is not exposed to a character, the smaller the fan base can become. This is what makes Banjo have some trouble. He didn't touch multiple generations (the gba games and nuts and bolts really weren't that big) and hasn't been in the public eye for almost two decades.

It isn't entirely "they haven't had a game in fifteen years" but rather "they have fallen into obscurity over fifteen years". You failed to explain how Banjo-Kazooie has maintained itself in modern gaming in order to fit with the others third party icons we have in Smash.

There IS a difference in popularity between Banjo and Ryu/Cloud/Mega Man and it's pretty large. But that isn't my issue with your argument.

It's that you are dragging those icons to Banjo's level by saying their importance to gaming and their lasting popularity (which I'd argue is truly what relevancy is) doesn't matter. Their importance is gaming is irrelevant (kek) to their iconicness in pop culture and is, in my opinion, significantly larger than that of Banjo.

Tl;Dr Banjo Kazooie isn't "irrelevant" but is rather less "relevant" than other third parties we see. Don't pretend relevancy is black and white.

Edit 2: This is a slight tangent, but I personally feel relevancy to Nintendo also applies to third parties. But this is a pretty loose requirement (see Cloud). This is probably a mix of how the characters fits with the rest of the cast and how popular the character will likely be to the Smash community.

 

[-crump-]

I'm really hoping the Dirct is this week, because next week I have midterms...
That said, I'm still thinking it'll be in the 15th-17th range. I don't think Nintendo is gonna base the date on American exam schedules.

 

[Burruni]

Burruni

Contract negotiation is part of the process, sure. However Nintendo doesn't send Jerry the coder from character dev to negotiate with Phil Spencer about using Microsoft IP. Jerry's paid to work at the office on characters, he's a developer.

I agree Ryu and Cloud were no laughing matter in terms of development, art team had their work cut out for them. The character devs were just making another moveset with some extra moves and inputs though. Stage team just made another stage for art team to skin.

People want Inklings to interact with stages like in Splatoon. Watering them down to standard gunner (which practically exists already) would be disappointing. Fully utilizing and programming Inklings into Smash takes a huge commitment from all teams. It's a global change at worst and a clever illusion of existing mechanics at best, development-wise. Ultimately, Nintendo doesn't want to squander the Inklings for Smash 5 if it exists.

Nobody's stating to water them down to a standard gunner.
Make their Side+B the Splatterscope. The projectile it launches trails ink underneath, prioritzing higher platforms like Thunder.
This ink lasts for a set amount of time or someone goes across it.
Inklings in their crouch movement (squid form) would recieve a speed boost, maybe a jump height increase from the ground. Enemy fighters would get an inverse multiplier.
They get plenty of tools to still work with, but the territorial gameplay with Ink dedicated to one special. That is focusing, not watering down.

"Nintendo doesn't want to squander Inklings for Smash 5..."
Don't speak for the company on their wants and wishes when you don't have any evidence to support it. What case do we have of any fighter ever being delayed because "They'd be better for the next game." The CLOSEST matter is Snake and Sonic who were proposed for Melee but were cut short by development time on a very tight schedule. DLC doesn't have quite as tight of a grip and we're talking about the stage where character choosing needs to appeal as much as possible to ensure payment back on the development. Inklings damn well do that.