Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Deleted member]

Another Petition hmm, it won't do anything but knock yourself out.

 

[Morbi]

Another Petition hmm, it won't do anything but knock yourself out.

I never understood petition culture; however, in the same vein, I have never understood counter-petition culture either. It astounds me that so many people seem to care about what others care about.

If this is in regard to Steve(?). I still somewhat doubt his presence in Smash merely because if he were, the announcement would have made much more impact if they did it during the Smash specific presentation.

 

[RoseyBetch]

That's why I said it's the perception of said characters and their inclusion, and we know they take up a good amount of development anyway, since they weren't even included in Brawl, meaning they aren't as easy to include as people want you to believe. Also, Fire Emblem fans start to come off as entitled brats in this regard, if all we are going to hear is "well Sakurai like FE so you can bet FE is going to get new characters while all the veterans become staples even the clones"

Fire Emblem can definitely get another character to represent it. Whether or not it deserves one is debatable, but it's not impossible just because you don't like the franchise. lol

 

[Deleted member]

I never understood petition culture; however, in the same vein, I have never understood counter-petition culture either. It astounds me that so many people seem to care about what others care about.

If this is in regard to Steve(?). I still somewhat doubt his presence in Smash merely because if he were, the announcement would have made much more impact if they did it during the Smash specific presentation.

Minecraft coming to Wii U is a very good thing as that's a very popular game that's finally coming to The system, I doubt it means anything for Steve, but Banjo-Kazooie's chances have increased as a result.

 

[NintenZ]

Fire Emblem can definitely get another character to represent it. Whether or not it deserves one is debatable, but it's not impossible just because you don't like the franchise. lol

He uses this logic all the time, so I think that it's best we ignore him.

 

[Burruni]

Minecraft coming to Wii U is a very good thing as that's a very popular game that's finally coming to The system, I doubt it means anything for Steve, but Banjo-Kazooie's chances have increased as a result.

Explain it to me.
How one of the single most impactful indie-to-major titles in gaming history being released onto Nintendo at last helps /another/ character more when the #1 common factor in our 3rd Parties isn't who's been on Nintendo most but Who's the biggest gaming faces with any tie to Nintendo.

 

[Schnee117]

That's why I said it's the perception of said characters and their inclusion, and we know they take up a good amount of development anyway, since they weren't even included in Brawl, meaning they aren't as easy to include as people want you to believe. Also, Fire Emblem fans start to come off as entitled brats in this regard, if all we are going to hear is "well Sakurai like FE so you can bet FE is going to get new characters while all the veterans become staples even the clones"

Or Sakurai didn't have any clones that he wanted to add to Brawl. Yeah I'll go with that because it doesn't clash with things he's said such as clones in Melee being added to expand on what he thought was an unsatisfying roster.

Ganondorf was lucky that his Spaceworld demo model worked with Captain Falcon's structure.
Read this too: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/01/smash-clones/
Cutting 6 clones in Melee wouldn't have gotten a unique character out of it and clones in SSB4 had a lot less workload.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Fire Emblem can definitely get another character to represent it. Whether or not it deserves one is debatable, but it's not impossible just because you don't like the franchise. lol

LMAO

You have no idea who I am. I've played every single Fire Emblem game ever released, using translation patches for Japanese versions, and before those were available, I struggled through menus in Japanese. I am a huge Fire Emblem fan, much like every Nintendo series, but enough is enough

 

[Morbi]

Minecraft coming to Wii U is a very good thing as that's a very popular game that's finally coming to The system, I doubt it means anything for Steve, but Banjo-Kazooie's chances have increased as a result.

Indeed, it seems as though Nintendo is truly aspiring to their E3 goals which was the predominant reason that I believed Banjo to be likely in the first place. Today is a great day.

 

[ccthirteen]

Minecraft coming to Wii U is a very good thing as that's a very popular game that's finally coming to The system, I doubt it means anything for Steve, but Banjo-Kazooie's chances have increased as a result.

I'm so down with Banjo-Kazooie being included. My trio of blow-my-mind DLC characters for this DLC batch would be Cloud, Banjo-Kazooie and Isaac.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

Another Petition hmm, it won't do anything but knock yourself out.

Higher ups never pay attention to internet petitions, it never gets noticed by companies. I don't see why they even bother, they really are wasting there time.

 

[Deleted member]

Explain it to me.
How one of the single most impactful indie-to-major titles in gaming history being released onto Nintendo at last helps /another/ character more when the #1 common factor in our 3rd Parties isn't who's been on Nintendo most but Who's the biggest gaming faces with any tie to Nintendo.

Eh guess your right, it's more Mojhang and Nintendo collaborating if anything, Microsoft doesn't mind if their in and Banjo-Kazooie qualify as big game characters so hopefully they are being considered.

 

[RoseyBetch]

LMAO

You have no idea who I am. I've played every single Fire Emblem game ever released, using translation patches for Japanese versions, and before those were available, I struggled through menus in Japanese. I am a huge Fire Emblem fan, much like every Nintendo series, but enough is enough

I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions then. But the fact remains that there's still a chance that Fire Emblem can get a newer character down the line. We already have Roy, so almost definitely not for DLC. The next Smash game though? It's possible.

 

[Burruni]

Eh guess your right, it's more Mojhang and Nintendo collaborating if anything, Microsoft doesn't mind if their in and Banjo-Kazooie qualify as big game characters so hopefully they are being considered.

No...
They really don't.
They qualified, in the N64 Era, at their peak.
Two games that combined did a bit over 5 million.
But when your only game in the past 10 years did about 0.76m, you are not a big character.
Put the two post-N64 Banjo games together, you hit about 1.10m sales. That's pitiful for 3rd party. Especially over a span that is over a decade.

 

[Banjodorf]

Eh guess your right, it's more Mojhang and Nintendo collaborating if anything, Microsoft doesn't mind if their in and Banjo-Kazooie qualify as big game characters so hopefully they are being considered.

I'm confident Banjo has more going for them than Steve from Minecraft, and all this shows is that Microsoft is fine with their properties being on Nintendo consoles. And if the Banjo hype built anything, and was actually noticeable, Phil Spencer and Sakurai could've worked something out

Banjo may not *seem* big, but in their heyday, Rare was an influential and extremely popular developer who created a number of iconic worlds. I reiterate again that Banjo being a former Nintendo property makes for good crossover material for Nintendo fans, and as Banjo is essentially the mascot of Rare, represents the golden age of 3D platforming, an extremely iconic developer, and Microsoft's steps into gaming at the same time.

That said, we aren't guaranteed *any* kind of Microsoft anything, and the chips will fall where they will.

I wish they'd end this ****ing suspense already.

 

[Morbi]

No...
They really don't.
They qualified, in the N64 Era, at their peak.
Two games that combined did a bit over 5 million.
But when your only game in the past 10 years did about 0.76m, you are not a big character.
Put the two post-N64 Banjo games together, you hit about 1.10m sales. That's pitiful for 3rd party. Especially over a span that is over a decade.

They are not big based exclusively on sales figures, their impact; however, is quite observable. Not only that, but they are spoken about frequently in regard to Smash as they were once intended (or possible, I cannot recall). Given the nature of the ballot, I would assert that it is vastly more relevant that they have demand than sales in this scenario. A big character does not need to sell a lot of games, they usually do, but Banjo is clearly an exception to the rule.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Or Sakurai didn't have any clones that he wanted to add to Brawl. Yeah I'll go with that because it doesn't clash with things he's said such as clones in Melee being added to expand on what he thought was an unsatisfying roster.

Ganondorf was lucky that his Spaceworld demo model worked with Captain Falcon's structure.
Read this too: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/01/smash-clones/
Cutting 6 clones in Melee wouldn't have gotten a unique character out of it and clones in SSB4 had a lot less workload.

Maybe you are ignoring what I'm saying or just don't want to hear it? It's the perception of these characters, which is why there's so much push back. Sakurai even said himself that he doesn't understand the negative feedback. Plus, we know that Sakurai intended for clones in Brawl but they were never finished, such as Roy and Dr. Mario. Its perception, and honestly, if there's time to work on clones, I rather them work on more alternate costumes than clone characters anyway. Clones are just a waste, sorry, Melee was acceptable since of how short its development time was, but now, I rather more alternate costumes than clones

No...
They really don't.
They qualified, in the N64 Era, at their peak.
Two games that combined did a bit over 5 million.
But when your only game in the past 10 years did about 0.76m, you are not a big character.
Put the two post-N64 Banjo games together, you hit about 1.10m sales. That's pitiful for 3rd party. Especially over a span that is over a decade.

This is the worst logic ever. Might as well remove every character that isn't a Mario, Zelda or Pokemon, since 90% of the roster can be considered irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Even if this game was called Super Mario Bros & The Legend of Zelda versus Pokemon, it would still sell ten million copies

 

[Morbi]

Maybe you are ignoring what I'm saying or just don't want to hear it? It's the perception of these characters, which is why there's so much push back. Sakurai even said himself that he doesn't understand the negative feedback. Plus, we know that Sakurai intended for clones in Brawl but they were never finished, such as Roy and Dr. Mario. Its perception, and honestly, if there's time to work on clones, I rather them work on more alternate costumes than clone characters anyway. Clones are just a waste, sorry, Melee was acceptable since of how short its development time was, but now, I rather more alternate costumes than clones

I would argue that the perception is not pertinent to the decision to add clone characters. The perception has always been there, and not only for Smash either. It is present in other Fighting Games as well. It never stops the developer from doing it because they understand that the characters that the do develop will still appeal to a certain audience. They would rather make a few happy with a character that they enjoy than make everyone "neutral" with a couple of costumes. There are many aspects of a game, no reasonable developer expects you to enjoy or use them all. It is still their job/intent to provide those experiences for people who do. If a roster is small and still has clone characters, I might feel more inclined to agree with you; however, in the case of Smash, 4 or 5 clone characters barely makes a dent.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Oh Minecraft Wii U, that's neat and late

Oh and there's a petition to not put Steve? from Minecraft in Smash
...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

This is the worst logic ever. Might as well remove every character that isn't a Mario, Zelda or Pokemon, since 90% of the roster can be considered irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Even if this game was called Super Mario Bros & The Legend of Zelda versus Pokemon, it would still sell ten million copies

Huh, didn't know Banjo was first party

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Maybe you are ignoring what I'm saying or just don't want to hear it? It's the perception of these characters, which is why there's so much push back. Sakurai even said himself that he doesn't understand the negative feedback. Plus, we know that Sakurai intended for clones in Brawl but they were never finished, such as Roy and Dr. Mario. Its perception, and honestly, if there's time to work on clones, I rather them work on more alternate costumes than clone characters anyway. Clones are just a waste, sorry, Melee was acceptable since of how short its development time was, but now, I rather more alternate costumes than clones


This is the worst logic ever. Might as well remove every character that isn't a Mario, Zelda or Pokemon, since 90% of the roster can be considered irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Even if this game was called Super Mario Bros & The Legend of Zelda versus Pokemon, it would still sell ten million copies

Roy and Doc would have been semi-clones judging how Brawl handled the clone veterans and how Roy is a semiclone now. As long as they play differently, there's nothing wrong with clones. We need more Ganondorfs and Lucases and less Dark Pits and Lucinas.

Sakurai: Third parties have to be special
keyword: THIRD party

 

[Deleted member]

No...
They really don't.
They qualified, in the N64 Era, at their peak.
Two games that combined did a bit over 5 million.
But when your only game in the past 10 years did about 0.76m, you are not a big character.
Put the two post-N64 Banjo games together, you hit about 1.10m sales. That's pitiful for 3rd party. Especially over a span that is over a decade.

*Shrugs.* Your option I think they still qualify as big the two Banjo-Kazooie games were probably two of the most successful games on the N64, they may not be as big as say, Mario or Link, but their definitely a big name. And have a history with Nintendo, so they have a shot, but hey it's your option I respect it and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Schnee117]

Maybe you are ignoring what I'm saying or just don't want to hear it? It's the perception of these characters, which is why there's so much push back. Sakurai even said himself that he doesn't understand the negative feedback. Plus, we know that Sakurai intended for clones in Brawl but they were never finished, such as Roy and Dr. Mario. Its perception, and honestly, if there's time to work on clones, I rather them work on more alternate costumes than clone characters anyway. Clones are just a waste, sorry, Melee was acceptable since of how short its development time was, but now, I rather more alternate costumes than clones

Sakurai sees the clones as free dessert. People are crying (that's putting it very kindly) about free extra content that took minimal work time.
I'd take more options on the roster (and more justice for the character) than costumes which don't do the character justice.
Only a waste to the entitled.

 

[Morbi]

Roy and Doc would have been semi-clones judging how Brawl handled the clone veterans and how Roy is a semiclone now. As long as they play differently, there's nothing wrong with clones. We need more Ganondorfs and Lucases and less Dark Pits and Lucinas.

Sakurai: Third parties have to be special
keyword: THIRD party

I still agree with him. The logic is not correct in the slightest as it implies that sales are the only aspect of "big" or "notable" and insinuates that characters with the most sales are the most likely. That is just blatantly ridiculous. His example was used to contradict the logic because regardless of first or third party, it is not reasonable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I still agree with him. The logic is not correct in the slightest as it implies that sales are the only aspect of "big" or "notable" and insinuates that characters with the most sales are the most likely. That is just blatantly ridiculous. His example was used to contradict the logic because regardless of first or third party, it is not reasonable.

Not really, as Banjo's dead. His first two games were popular, but after that, people either forgot him or hated him, depending on the game. Having 6 games with over half of them being ignored is pretty bad, especially compared to the third Parties in Smash

 

[A Distant Demon]

"making clones is a waste and they should be alts"

So instead of giving free characters and more customization we should have less options?
ok

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I still agree with him. The logic is not correct in the slightest as it implies that sales are the only aspect of "big" or "notable" and insinuates that characters with the most sales are the most likely. That is just blatantly ridiculous. His example was used to contradict the logic because regardless of first or third party, it is not reasonable.

But sales do give us an idea of how big a franchise is and how many people actually know of that character. More sales means more exposure which makes them more recognisable to a general audience, like it or not sales are a factor in determining how big a character is.

 

[Morbi]

Not really, as Banjo's dead. His first two games were popular, but after that, people either forgot him or hated him, depending on the game. Having 6 games with over half of them being ignored is pretty bad, especially compared to the third Parties in Smash

Okay, you are entitled to your opinion; however, that has nothing to do with refuting "sales=(most)important" logic that I was commenting on. If you feel as though Banjo is not notable, that is fair. But his lack of sales does not and will not preclude him from Smash.

 

[NintenZ]

This is the worst logic ever.

You know how ironic considering all the bull**** you've concocted, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

And Burruni has a point.

 

[LancerStaff]

Banjo-Kazooie doesn't exactly have the hype factor that Steve does... Going from announcing Cloud, godfather of JRPGs, to the Duck Hunt lookalike seems pretty backwards to me. Meanwhile Minecraft is a household name and started the big survival game craze like FF7 was. BK didn't start any major trends and the genre faded back into obscurity. They're not comparable.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

"making clones is a waste and they should be alts"

So instead of giving free characters and more customization we should have less options?
ok

Problem? I would trade Lucina and Dark Pit for alternate costumes like Dry Bowser, OOT Ganondorf, Mr. L, a true Fierce Deity alternate, Slippy Toad, more Pikmin captains, better more faithful suit alternates for Samus, and plenty more I can't think of because of final exams

Banjo-Kazooie doesn't exactly have the hype factor that Steve does... Going from announcing Cloud, godfather of JRPGs, to the Duck Hunt lookalike seems pretty backwards to me. Meanwhile Minecraft is a household name and started the big survival game craze like FF7 was. BK didn't start any major trends and the genre faded back into obscurity. They're not comparable.

Ewwww

 

[Morbi]

Banjo-Kazooie doesn't exactly have the hype factor that Steve does... Going from announcing Cloud, godfather of JRPGs, to the Duck Hunt lookalike seems pretty backwards to me. Meanwhile Minecraft is a household name and started the big survival game craze like FF7 was. BK didn't start any major trends and the genre faded back into obscurity. They're not comparable.

Banjo and Kazooie did not pioneer any trends, they just perfected them.

But yeah, I do agree with this sentiment. Steve is one of those characters that is on par with Cloud. That being said, I still believe it is an assumption on our part that the announcement needs to be the equivalent of Cloud. Regardless of the intensity of his reveal, it was still during the last minute of a Nintendo Direct. The character in the Smash Ballot is going to get a lot more recognition even if they are not on his level. Might as well have a character on his caliber though.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

master chief, eh? he could work fine actually, and doesn't need the AR/BAR to do his ****

remember, this dude was in DOA and didn't take out a single gun aside from plasma nades. could easily see an arc-based attack style from him, maybe the spartan charge and assassination style moves from halo 5. borrow the rocket fsmash from snake, and maybe use a warthog or spartan laser as fs.

better than banjo or inklings at least, and more interesting.

 

[Lady Kuki]

I actually do not understand all the hostility towards having Steve in Smash Bros. I think he is not only more fitting than Master Chief, but he is also more relevant and popular than Banjo. I'm not even into Minecraft, and I still think he's an interesting character.

Eh, personally I couldn't care less what Microsoft character gets in Smash, but I feel that Steve is a pretty good choice. If not as many people want him, then I guess Banjo will have to do. Master Chief is too gritty looking, IMO. He might have fit in Brawl, but he certainly doesn't fit in Smash 4, I think.

 

[Amberloo]

Not gonna lie, not a big fan of the idea of Steve in Smash. I find Minecraft pretty fun, but I don't know if Steve himself would actually be interesting. I guess he could do stuff with TNT, potions, and a minecart, but apart from that, he's pretty bland. After all, it's the building aspect that's actually the interesting part, and plus, being honest here, who actually uses default Steve? He's a pretty ugly, bland character (not that that's stopped him from being recognizable I guess), and I much prefer my current Lucina skin when playing. That said, I'm not ignoring the massive audience and influence that Minecraft has, either...

 

[NintenZ]

Also everyone, be thankful we have clones, as if we didn't, then we wouldn't have as big a roster.

I see them less as padding and more as a bonus.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

I actually do not understand all the hostility towards having Steve in Smash Bros. I think he is not only more fitting than Master Chief, but he is also more relevant and popular than Banjo. I'm not even into Minecraft, and I still think he's an interesting character.

Eh, personally I couldn't care less what Microsoft character gets in Smash, but I feel that Steve is a pretty good choice. If not as many people want him, then I guess Banjo will have to do. Master Chief is too gritty looking, IMO. He might have fit in Brawl, but he certainly doesn't fit in Smash 4, I think.

I think a lot of people feel Steve is out of place in Smash Bros. as a far as third party characters go. He is popular now, but he isn't on the level of other third party characters added, in terms of being iconic. Plus, most people don't associate Minecraft with Steve, most people don't even know the character is actually named Steve, he is kind of like Villager. Banjo Kazooie is in a different position as far as third party goes... He was a Nintendo character at one point and reasonates with classic fans and old school Nintendo fans

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fire Emblem can definitely get another character to represent it. Whether or not it deserves one is debatable, but it's not impossible just because you don't like the franchise. lol

Blend Lucina and Roy into one character and I'd say we good for another FE character.

Also, anything from Minecraft in Smash is a bad idea. Have some principals...

Better than BANJO even? I need to get the **** out...

 

[Mobes]

remember, this dude was in DOA

WELL ACTUALLY, SPARTAN-458 in DOA4 is female.

Pictured: me, typing out this post, after I googled for 'doa spartan'.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

I think a lot of people feel Steve is out of place in Smash Bros. as a far as third party characters go. He is popular now, but he isn't on the level of other third party characters added, in terms of being iconic. Plus, most people don't associate Minecraft with Steve, most people don't even know the character is actually named Steve, he is kind of like Villager. Banjo Kazooie is in a different position as far as third party goes... He was a Nintendo character at one point and reasonates with classic fans and old school Nintendo fans

but banjo would be moderately received. people would literally go insane if Chief got in. plus, it makes sense from selection patterns. Chief(arguably, i say Doomguy's the best choice) represents FPSes and is one of the most iconic members of the genre.

WELL ACTUALLY, SPARTAN-458 in DOA4 is female.

Pictured: me, typing out this post, after I googled it.

OKAY FINE but they're still uniformly trained. John could easily swipe moves from Nicole. btw nicole is canon in DOA, it's funny. XD