Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Banjodorf]

You know, everyone’s going on about either Steve or Banjo, but if Sakurai did want to bring in a Microsoft owned character, am I the only one who thinks he’d might go with this guy?

Now one thing that BK and Minecraft have over Halo is they had (or will) have appearences on Nintendo consoles, but as stated before Sakurai considers that to be more of a courtesy kind of thing rather than requirement. And hey, there was Halo DS in development at some point lol.

Sakurai stated in the past that he wanted to make Smash the best character game in the world, and naturally he’s living up to that promise by including such famous characters like Ryu and Cloud. Let’s face it, terms of popularity, fame and impact, Master Chief (basically Mr. FPS) and Halo basically blow Banjo Kazooie out of the water. Halo revolutionized the modern FPS as know it and became a cornerstone in multiplayer games. I honestly feel like the notion of the Chief appearing alongside Mario, Cloud, Link, Sonic and such in the same game together would cause more hype than Banjo, really. It’s like a GameFAQs character battle come to life.

But of course, all of this depends on if Sakurai can get or even want a Microsoft owned character in Smash.

Here's the thing though. I can't see Sakurai going for Master Chief because his most iconic weapons are realistic guns. Yes, he has similar options that Snake did, but Snake is known for stealth and tactics, not being an FPS icon.

Heres a thing that's different about them;

Master Chief is a Microsoft icon, and one of if not the most iconic company character.

Banjo is a now-Microsoft character that's arguably more iconic for Nintendo fans. In addition, Banjo is arguably the mascot of Rare, which while not as big as it once was, is an important part of Microsoft now and their games have a very important place in the history of gaming and for Nintendo as well.

Coupled with their continued popularity and stated company interest (Yes, who wouldn't want their character in Smash, but I'm sure they've been asked about every character they own being a candidate for Smash and to my knowledge only responded about Banjo. I think it'd be easy to see Banjo as the best crossover candidate, considering the character design, history, continued popularity (especially for a "dead" franchise).

So I can't see them picking Master Chief for this, or Sakurai especially agreeing to Master Chief.

...Though, as a fan of Halo, I'd definitely buy him over Steve.

 

[Deleted member]

EDIT:

The way I see it, the two options are either take an Inkling with different mechanics or wait about 5+ years for Inklings to be fully optimized. If Sakurai brings Inklings in I trust he can work his way around it in a creative way. And if he can't then I'm sure he won't bother putting him in the game, which I can accept.

It's a personal preference.

Alright. I don't agree with you, but that's a respectable opinion.

Except Chief's primary weapon is the Assault Rifle and realistic guns isn't an issue because of Halo 5's loadout REQs.

I have no idea about Halo 5's loadout REQs, to me Halo died with 3, that was the last Halo I played aside from minutes of Reach and the best one imo.

Honestly, I don't see the realistic guns thing as a huge issue for Chief.

The thing is, the Halo series features plenty of non-realistic sci-fi weapons. The energy pistols, needlers, energy swords, energy hammer, etc and like Snake he could use explosives.

My idea for for him in Smash is basically still be able to shoot people in Smash, just like he does in Halo, but with weapons from the Covenant....like how he does in Halo.

Except Humans and especially the Spartans are notorious for using bullet based weapons.

Honestly, I think the no bullets restriction is dumb is PM: Sami is any evidence on how it's done:

https://youtu.be/HvSxLZKvtnU

 

[RoseyBetch]

Did you read the posts on the next page that followed tge one you posted.

On the WiiU, image having 8 different inklings, each one shooting different color ink, on the Wii Fit stage (although, doesn't the WF stage lose the mirror in an 8 player match? I forget). It quite simply wouldn't work, and you'd still have to wonder about their moveset then. If they can only lay ink with one move, and it's limited, then what? ALL of their weapons use ink.

I will preface this by saying that I do not want the Inklings as DLC and that I would not be excited if they were announced as DLC. However, playing devil's advocate, I will say that they very easily could shoehorn them in by making them use various weapons, which would cause ink-based explosions and relegate the squid form to their special moves or dash attacks or something of the like.

 

[Burruni]

The fact that all Inkling weapons use ink, if we're talking about resource, would be as brushed under the rug just like the facts that...

doesn't have a peanut counter for Popguns, or Crystal Coconut counter for the Rocket Barrels.
doesn't have weapon energy.
can't only use Goddess Powers so many times per match.
don't have PP.
doesn't have a missile counter.
don't have to worry about durability.
aren't limited in their usage of bombs and arrows.
doesn't have a magic meter.
doesn't have cooldowns for his Arts.
And most evidently
don't have a PP system.

Double Edit: had no inventory issue for all the ammo, explosives, and tools.

(Edit: The only characters I have in mind that DO have resource management... 's basic durability system and 's KO meter.)

In terms of it being "unrealistic" that only particular specials can apply the Ink Terrain as part of their gameplay...
should paralyze with any shot of her pistol even in "Whip" form; not just her neutral b and down smash. That should say enough. Creative License used to bend rules in the sake of Gameplay Balance.

 

[Deleted member]

So uh...

This is a thing:

 

[Geno Boost]

People now request Master chief and Steve for smash? i rather have a GTA rep before them.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd rather have Goku than a non-Rare Microsoft character...

And that's saying something since I know Goku in Smash is impossible!

 

[BKupa666]

When did it become "common sense" that characters can only be DLC if their movesets are generic and watered down?

 

[Banjodorf]

So uh...

This is a thing:

Heh. Oh look, more Microsoft x Nintendo cooperation.

They're even...livestreaming it? What?!

Is this the beginning of a partnership? A new era? THE POSSIBILITIES.

When did it become "common sense" that characters can only be DLC if their movesets are generic and watered down?

This. I'm willing to bet Ryu's input system was a very technical addition, personally. Besides, the logic still applies that Sakurai will add whoever the **** he wants no matter how complex. We're given no reason to think otherwise.

Also, TFW characters can't be complex and then stages can be ****ing Midgar and SMM.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Am I the only one who feels like we already have enough third party characters (except for Snake returning)? I'd rather see more Nintendo newcomers.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Am I the only one

Didn't we go over saying this is always wrong yesterday?

Personally I would rather just have 1st party characters from now on. Because all of the 3rd parties left I care about are unlikely/impossible.

 

[Pazzo.]

The fact that all Inkling weapons use ink, if we're talking about resource, would be as brushed under the rug just like the facts that...

doesn't have a peanut counter for Popguns, or Crystal Coconut counter for the Rocket Barrels.
doesn't have weapon energy.
can't only use Goddess Powers so many times per match.
don't have PP.
doesn't have a missile counter.
don't have to worry about durability.
aren't limited in their usage of bombs and arrows.
doesn't have a magic meter.
doesn't have cooldowns for his Arts.
And most evidently
don't have a PP system.

Double Edit: had no inventory issue for all the ammo, explosives, and tools.

(Edit: The only characters I have in mind that DO have resource management... 's basic durability system and 's KO meter.)

In terms of it being "unrealistic" that only particular specials can apply the Ink Terrain as part of their gameplay...
should paralyze with any shot of her pistol even in "Whip" form; not just her neutral b and down smash. That should say enough. Creative License used to bend rules in the sake of Gameplay Balance.

Small nitpick: and 's blades, Falchion and Ragnel, had infinite uses.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one who feels like we already have enough third party characters (except for Snake returning)? I'd rather see more Nintendo newcomers.

No.

And I don't see the reasoning in making an exception for a veteran.

Heh. Oh look, more Microsoft x Nintendo cooperation.

They're even...livestreaming it? What?!

Is this the beginning of a partnership? A new era? THE POSSIBILITIES.

Phil Spencer is a total bro.

This is either shaping up to be the greatest thing ever, or the greatest troll ever. We shall see.

 

[Burruni]

Small nitpick: and 's blades, Falchion and Ragnel, had infinite uses.

I knew the Parallel Falchion and its counterpart in 13 were infinite usage. I thought FE1/3/11/12 Falchion and Ragnell had a limited number of usages.

Edit: Falchion has always been infinite usage. Ragnell had durability 25 in Awakening, THAT'S what threw me off.

 

[Banjodorf]

I knew the Parallel Falchion and its counterpart in 13 were infinite usage. I thought FE1/3/11/12 Falchion and Ragnell had a limited number of usages.

Ragnell (and its sister blade Alondite) definitely do not have limited uses. SWORD BEAMS ALL DAY.

 

[Pazzo.]

I knew the Parallel Falchion and its counterpart in 13 were infinite usage. I thought FE1/3/11/12 Falchion and Ragnell had a limited number of usages.

According to the FE wiki, it's always had infinite uses.

That explains why a hundred+ year sword can still be used in combat.

 

[Burruni]

According to the FE wiki, it's always had infinite uses.

That explains why a hundred+ year sword can still be used in combat.

My bad.
But still.
2 examples nulled out of the like 2 dozen listed. And because it's actually moot for their blades.

 

[Pazzo.]

My bad.
But still.
2 examples nulled out of the like 2 dozen listed. And because it's actually moot for their blades.

Oh, no problem.

My point doesn't negate your point. Smash doesn't always have source accurate ammo systems.

 

[Mobes]

People now request Master chief and Steve for smash? i rather have a GTA rep before them.

The thought of having the GTA:SA theme song appear in a Smash game is hilarious to me. What a beautiful ridiculous vision.

There are many weird third-party choices that have varying degrees of small chances of appearing, and most of them would be cool.
Master Chief seems more far-fetched then most, since it's a current console-side icon while someone like Sonic hasn't been for a while now.

Honestly, I'm into these thought experiences mostly because it's fun to think about.
I believe in the ability of the Smash devs to turn most characters / concepts into fun fighters.
So give me the absurd choices, devs! I want Skorpion! I want Steve! I want Paul Phoenix! I want Spyro the Dragon!

 

[Aetheri]

Some words of opinion here...

First: I'd prefer Master Chief over Steve (I actually enjoyed playing Halo 2 and 3 back in the day but have since lost interest, a moveset with limited gun power is still feasible for Master Cheif as Needlers and Energy Sword would be fun as hell to use in Smash admittedly)...but I would prefer Banjo over both of them.. remember that they have been requested since Melee and Sakurai has indeed shown an interest in the duo...

Second: Why are 3DS limitations a problem for Inklings? Firstly their ink doesn't need to cover the entire stage (for the sake of balance as well since they'd be buffed in their own ink and covering the whole stage within seconds will give them a huge boost for the rest of the match) nor does it need to be permanent...look at Orcane from RoA for example who uses a similar mechanic with his puddle, Inklings could probably cover a bit more but it could work similarly...this isn't the same as a second unit with a complicated AI, and I doubt such a thing would be any harder than 4 Olimars with their 12 Pikmin running around either...it's nothing more than an added texture and hitbox added to the stage...and the inklings squid form isn't going to be a full on tranformation like Zelda/Sheik, that wouldn't be any different to Pac-man's pizza form...

 

[Deku Skrublord]

Honestly, I can't see Steve getting in at all. Sure, he's fairly iconic and his game is coming to Wii U, but canonically, he only has one motion. Mr. Sakurai is creative, sure, but to have to make up every single move? It would be like having a completely different character with a Steve skin. It worked with Captain Falcon, but that's only because prior to Smash, I don't think anybody had ever seen him before (not sure if the anime was out yet or not) with the exception of art from the games. We've seen Steve. We know what he can do, and it's not much. Banjo I can see, because he might not be immediately recognizable to the younger, more casual audience, but neither was Melee Marth or Roy, and Mega Man hasn't had a 2D game (that I know of) in decades with the exception of rereleases. I don't know. I think when we try to predict what character will be in Smash, I think we should think of who the casuals want in, who the 7-15 year olds want in, rather than the hardcore 25-40 year old fans want in. Just from a business standpoint, I don't think Banjo will sell because he looks like Duck Hunt to the younger fans, but from a gameplay standpoint, I also doubt Steve will be put in the game. If it were up to me, I think I would put in Sceptile, because of ORAS releasing last year, and the knowledge that it takes about a year for a character to be created would mean that when the idea cropped up, ORAS had just been released. Maybe not though. We have enough Pokemon, maybe we don't need another.

TL:DR:
Steve is too simple to get in, Banjo probably won't because of casual audiences mistaking him for Duck Hunt, Sceptile has potential, but he might not due to too many pokemon

 

[Mobes]

remember that they have been requested since Melee and Sakurai has indeed shown an interest in the duo...

Oh, right! That probably helps their cause atleast a lil' bit.

 

[Burruni]

Some words of opinion here...

First: I'd prefer Master Chief over Steve (I actually enjoyed playing Halo 2 and 3 back in the day but have since lost interest, a moveset with limited gun power is still feasible for Master Cheif as Needlers and Energy Sword would be fun as hell to use in Smash admittedly)...but I would prefer Banjo over both of them.. remember that they have been requested since Melee and Sakurai has indeed shown an interest in the duo...

Second: Why are 3DS limitations a problem for Inklings? Firstly their ink doesn't need to cover the entire stage (for the sake of balance as well since they'd be buffed in their own ink and covering the whole stage within seconds will give them a huge boost for the rest of the match) nor does it need to be permanent...look at Orcane from RoA for example who uses a similar mechanic with his puddle, Inklings could probably cover a bit more but it could work similarly...this isn't the same as a second unit with a complicated AI, and I doubt such a thing would be any harder than 4 Olimars with their 12 Pikmin running around either...it's nothing more than an added texture and hitbox added to the stage...and the inklings squid form isn't going to be a full on tranformation like Zelda/Sheik, that wouldn't be any different to Pac-man's pizza form...

A) You're right. People have a misinformed idea of what a "transformation character" refers to with limitations here sometimes. The issue is not a character who changes forms, in and of itself.
all change for some attacks and have some inflatable fist action.
The issue is RAM. Having the game keep tabs on multiple "active" movesets for a single fighter. This is why and are separated. Why is the only standing third of Pokemon Trainer. It's part of this that made a strain to work (since he has technically a second "moveset" data during Abandon Ship).

B) The 3DS "Limitations" ARE not a problem; they MAY be. It's a matter IF the actual management of the territor-ink with 4 player Smash on 3DS with busier stages or 8 player Smash on things like Wii Fit Studio. Not in the "visual" of ink or so, but in keeping tabs of applied terrains, timers for their duration, and who is affected by which terrain beneficially or negatively. Theory-crafting to try to hold onto one last reason why Inklings "Can't" happen.

 

[PurplishBacon]

Honestly, I can't see Steve getting in at all. Sure, he's fairly iconic and his game is coming to Wii U, but canonically, he only has one motion. Mr. Sakurai is creative, sure, but to have to make up every single move? It would be like having a completely different character with a Steve skin. It worked with Captain Falcon, but that's only because prior to Smash, I don't think anybody had ever seen him before (not sure if the anime was out yet or not) with the exception of art from the games. We've seen Steve. We know what he can do, and it's not much. Banjo I can see, because he might not be immediately recognizable to the younger, more casual audience, but neither was Melee Marth or Roy, and Mega Man hasn't had a 2D game (that I know of) in decades with the exception of rereleases. I don't know. I think when we try to predict what character will be in Smash, I think we should think of who the casuals want in, who the 7-15 year olds want in, rather than the hardcore 25-40 year old fans want in. Just from a business standpoint, I don't think Banjo will sell because he looks like Duck Hunt to the younger fans, but from a gameplay standpoint, I also doubt Steve will be put in the game. If it were up to me, I think I would put in Sceptile, because of ORAS releasing last year, and the knowledge that it takes about a year for a character to be created would mean that when the idea cropped up, ORAS had just been released. Maybe not though. We have enough Pokemon, maybe we don't need another.

TL:DR:
Steve is too simple to get in, Banjo probably won't because of casual audiences mistaking him for Duck Hunt, Sceptile has potential, but he might not due to too many pokemon

I think Steve would be nice.
one of his specials could be throwing spawn eggs that randomly spawn a mob (that would be cool.)
TNT as a down special once too place and then once more to light.
so on and so on

I don't think steve would be to simple at all.

 

[IndigoSSB]

I think Steve would be nice.
one of his specials could be throwing spawn eggs that randomly spawn a mob (that would be cool.)
TNT as a down special once too place and then once more to light.
so on and so on

I don't think steve would be to simple at all.

That's a pretty good route to go actually, using the items in minecraft for his moveset. His side b could be him throwing a potion. You can either throw out a poison potion or a postion of harming, maybe even a healing potion although that may be a bit overpowered.

 

[BKupa666]

Allow the Inklings to transform into squids during some moves, but not permanently as part of a second moveset, and it's problem solved.

Example, have that launching attack be their recovery, during which they become squids, but then turn back into kids upon landing. Or maybe give them a D-Tilt or D-Smash where they shoot ink at the ground, then dive in and pop back up as squids as a two-hit attack. This is yet another example of people getting preconceived notions of characters in their heads and "objectively" judging that character based on those notions.

I picture Inklings to be basically Mega Man with less damage/knockback, but poison damage with ink to account for it.

 

[Banjodorf]

I don't I don't think Banjo will sell because he looks like Duck Huint to the younger fans.

TL:DR:
Banjo probably won't because of casual audiences mistaking him for Duck Hunt (and other things)

....What? There's obvious character inspiration from Banjo for Duck Hunt's cartoony look, but other than that you're just looking at a duo character of a mammal and a bird (it's actually a trio, with the lightgun offscreen) and assuming they look anything alike.

Younger fans will buy whatever appeals to them. Banjo and Kazooie are very different from Duck Hunt in both design and execution, but this is a silly point to argue. Over and over again.

"Cloud won't appeal to younger fans because he's basically Ike. Roy won't be added because we have Marth and Lucina." These are things that would actually give me pause to argue, but it's too late for that. B&K and Duck Hunt being similar? Have you ever played any Banjo games? Those two movesets would be absolutely nothing alike.

I wouldn't even say Steve being too simple is a valid argument. We don't know Sakurai's perspective, and don't know how he views the character potential. He gave a full moveset to Mr. Game and Watch without batting an eye, so I'm not worried at all.

Seriously, Sceptile keeps getting brought up like some kind of avlid contender. Granted, who isn't a valid contender at this point, but the Sceptile support, popular Pokemon or not, only cropped up because people really want a grass starter, and that's it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

When did it become "common sense" that characters can only be DLC if their movesets are generic and watered down?

Since when did people start to think that?

Ryu is probably by far one of the most complex movesets in Smash history!

 

[Pazzo.]

Since when did people start to think that?

Ryu is probably by far one of the most complex movesets in Smash history!

Ignorance.

That, and forgetfulness.

 

[Burruni]

Allow the Inklings to transform into squids during some moves, but not permanently as part of a second moveset, and it's problem solved.

Example, have that launching attack be their recovery, during which they become squids, but then turn back into kids upon landing. Or maybe give them a D-Tilt or D-Smash where they shoot ink at the ground, then dive in and pop back up as squids as a two-hit attack. This is yet another example of people getting preconceived notions of characters in their heads and "objectively" judging that character based on those notions.

I picture Inklings to be basically Mega Man with less damage/knockback, but poison damage with ink to account for it.

This is just me but I took the factor of Megaman's unique Mega Buster approach to jab, f-tilt, and n-air to be kept to him and focusing on, of course Ink Brush and Roller, but even the blunt nature of a Slosher, or even the fact that their "hair" is still their tentacles which could have some good usage.

Maybe that's a little bias from Filia's handling in Skullgirls on the prehensile hair, but I feel like you can give them a good enough core without taking Megaman's biggest thing keeping him so unique.

Double edit:
I WANT THIS THROW.

Edit:

Ignorance.

That, and forgetfulness.

You forget "it doesn't coincide with my reasoning therefore I omit it."

 

[A Distant Demon]

We live in a world where Master Cheif, Scorpion, and Steve are considered viable options.
Im pretty sure I entered the Bizzaro world a month ago . . .

Im glad Sakurai seems to always think differently from us.

 

[NintenZ]

Im glad Sakurai seems to always think differently from us.

Not always my friend.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We live in a world where Master Cheif, Scorpion, and Steve are considered viable options.

I never thought I'd see the day.

Smash's roster is basically a 7-year-old's fanfic right now...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Roy won't be added because we have Marth and Lucina.

Well, of course Roy wouldn't have been familiar to younger kids. Melee was released in 2001 two console generations ago and most young Nintendo gaming kids started around the Wii or Wii U eras.

 

[Burruni]

Well, of course Roy wouldn't have been familiar to younger kids. Melee was released in 2001 two console generations ago and most young Nintendo gaming kids started around the Wii or Wii U eras.

He was in Awakening. As a Bonus Box fighter and had his entire redo design when focused on the Champions of Yore DLC.
Boom.

I never thought I'd see the day.

Smash's roster is basically a 7-year-old's fanfic right now...

Yeah.
Because it wasn't back when it was "Man, have you ever thought how cool it'd be if Mario fought Link? YOU CAN DO THAT NOW!!"

 

[Dark Phazon]

Hey guys just got home and saw this on WiiU Daily

Question:
Is the big announcement whatever it is happening today? If today when? And will it br something we can watch like on Twitch/Nintendo Website/Youtube?

Or is it happening Monday 14th December (Next Week?)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah.
Because it wasn't back when it was "Man, have you ever thought how cool it'd be if Mario fought Link? YOU CAN DO THAT NOW!!"

Well now, we can do "Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man vs. Ryu vs. Cloud"

So many dreams are coming true!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

He was in Awakening. As a Bonus Box fighter and had his entire redo design when focused on the Champions of Yore DLC.
Boom.

As DLC that casual players can complete Awakening without ever knowing of. Along with all the other past lords made DLC. Which basically means about as much as K. Rool being a playable character in Mario Super Sluggers.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hey guys just got home and saw this on WiiU Daily

View attachment 86471

Question:
Is the big announcement whatever it is happening today? Or Monday 14th December (Next Week?)

It was today and it was Minecraft...

 

[Burruni]

Hey guys just got home and saw this on WiiU Daily

View attachment 86471

Question:
Is the big announcement whatever it is happening today? If today when? And will it br something we can watch like on Twitch/Nintendo Website/Youtube?

Or is it happening Monday 14th December (Next Week?)

It was Minecraft WiiU.

Well now, we can do "Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man vs. Ryu vs. Cloud"

So many dreams are coming true!

Yes. But the argument of it becoming "Fanfic-y" isn't a good one when THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE SERIES.

As DLC that casual players can complete Awakening without ever knowing of. Along with all the other past lords made DLC. Which basically means about as much as K. Rool being a playable character in Mario Super Sluggers.

He was chosen as a veteran. But I was just making the point that he HAS been seen in some notable role since 2001/2, excluding his two-line cameo at the end of FE7.