Rockstar
Smash Ace
Im preping for a tournament. Do you guys think this is a good way to get ready? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boE2WiDdOQk
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General Ness discussion
- Thread starter thesage
- Start date
thesage
Smash Hero
Go to the brawl boards, but in brawl you can only practice with other people pretty much. It's all reading.
IDK, I don't really play Ness to win or anything, nor do I play smash to win. I play smash because I have fun with it. If I wanted to be good at smash and not care about fun, I'd just pick Fox, since he's the best character in the game.
Honestly, instead of complaining, just list the types of situations you can't punish and then we can figure out what to do in that situation.
I still suck though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
IDK, I don't really play Ness to win or anything, nor do I play smash to win. I play smash because I have fun with it. If I wanted to be good at smash and not care about fun, I'd just pick Fox, since he's the best character in the game.
Honestly, instead of complaining, just list the types of situations you can't punish and then we can figure out what to do in that situation.
I still suck though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
toasty
Smash Hero
Yedi - you're wasting your time if you're trying to make Ness "viable."
There's a reason you main Falco and not Ness, LOL.
Does Ness have his applications even in high level play? Absolutely. Is that application a frequent opportunity? Absolutely not. You generally have to be playing against a high level player who either a) doesn't know the matchup, or b) doesn't play the matchup in a textbook (Read: "gay") fashion, or c) picks a lower-than-usual tiered character.
I mean your complaint about not being able to appropriately punish would-be opportunities is at the heart of what DEFINES Ness as a bottom tiered character! If he had a sweet punishing game, then it wouldn't matter as much that he dies easily, has a crappy and highly punishable offensive game, and has a ****ty recovery.
There's a reason you main Falco and not Ness, LOL.
Does Ness have his applications even in high level play? Absolutely. Is that application a frequent opportunity? Absolutely not. You generally have to be playing against a high level player who either a) doesn't know the matchup, or b) doesn't play the matchup in a textbook (Read: "gay") fashion, or c) picks a lower-than-usual tiered character.
I mean your complaint about not being able to appropriately punish would-be opportunities is at the heart of what DEFINES Ness as a bottom tiered character! If he had a sweet punishing game, then it wouldn't matter as much that he dies easily, has a crappy and highly punishable offensive game, and has a ****ty recovery.
otg
Smash Master
You're right Yedi, Doc has a chance unlike Ness. I would never suggest dropping Falco for Ness ever. You should consider using Ness vs. other Low Tiers only, it's actually pretty awesome.
Europe doesn't KNOW about those NY ness's.
Europe doesn't KNOW about those NY ness's.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Ness isn't viable, but DJC fair out of shield is simply beautiful.
it is when you catch them dashing. fair has been making me sad recently, im starting to just sh fair more. Since its easier to space that to not get cc grabbed by marth.
Also it sucks when people dont fall for djc bair shield pressure anymore
Also it sucks when people dont fall for djc bair shield pressure anymore
Well, why not?
otg
Smash Master
I'm telling you guys, start ****ing with Nair more (especially OOS). It IS Ness's best move, hands down.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Wait, otg, I want to hear more about this nair.
We all know it's 5 frames and has a constant hitbox. But what else does it have going for it?
(Admittedly, DJC nair out of shield makes you look like a baller. Lol)
We all know it's 5 frames and has a constant hitbox. But what else does it have going for it?
(Admittedly, DJC nair out of shield makes you look like a baller. Lol)
im not convinced that hes not viable either. Its easily possible that it's true, but I still think he's still underdeveloped so we can't really tell whether he's viable or not.
More and more his grab range frustrates me, defensive options are so good vs him. (shield, cc).
I play a marth whose pretty decent, and he's been playing my ness alot.
Things that stopped working on him:
djc bair shield pressure (he he just wds out, or drops his sheild and cc grabs if hes at low percent.);
dtilt spamming just gets cc grabbed;
dash attack/djc fair gets cced out of his hitlag;
he doesn't just let me upB to the stage anymore/recover at all, he makes it as gay *** possible (the reverse bair to bair/dair edgeguard. If marth jumps as soon as he sees yu recovering, he can almost always get you);
fullhop delayed djc baits (i got it from toasty vids) barely work anymore since he watches for it, and doesn't take the bait, he's perfectly content to wait for me to land;
in extension to that he never ever falls for delayed dair, no matter how I use it.
Things that still work/i started doing and theyve been useful.
I'm still able to predict dash aways with dash attack and it not getting cced;
spacing in front of someone's shield with uair so I don't get grabbed.
Sh fair has been more useful than djc fair for me, atleast in the marth match up.
I can still edge guard with pkthuinder to edgehog/fullycharged bat against marth; (this is so ****)
I can still combo with pk thunder/make it lead to techchase on platforms;
running up and shielding to w/e still works sometimes. Can't spam it or I just get grabbed lol.
Things i wanna play around with more:
delayed SHing to either an aerial/or djc waveland onto a platform;
platform tricks in general;
usmash oos (if i can get consistent with this, than djc fair oos will become more powerful cuz of this mix up)
anyone have more ideas?
i still dont combo with dthrow to dash attack, i have no idea when it works and on what characters
ninja'd, yea nair *****. I actually have been using it less. Pretty much only as a oos option. Due to it's lack of range I find it hard to find places to use it. Where else do you use it?
More and more his grab range frustrates me, defensive options are so good vs him. (shield, cc).
I play a marth whose pretty decent, and he's been playing my ness alot.
Things that stopped working on him:
djc bair shield pressure (he he just wds out, or drops his sheild and cc grabs if hes at low percent.);
dtilt spamming just gets cc grabbed;
dash attack/djc fair gets cced out of his hitlag;
he doesn't just let me upB to the stage anymore/recover at all, he makes it as gay *** possible (the reverse bair to bair/dair edgeguard. If marth jumps as soon as he sees yu recovering, he can almost always get you);
fullhop delayed djc baits (i got it from toasty vids) barely work anymore since he watches for it, and doesn't take the bait, he's perfectly content to wait for me to land;
in extension to that he never ever falls for delayed dair, no matter how I use it.
Things that still work/i started doing and theyve been useful.
I'm still able to predict dash aways with dash attack and it not getting cced;
spacing in front of someone's shield with uair so I don't get grabbed.
Sh fair has been more useful than djc fair for me, atleast in the marth match up.
I can still edge guard with pkthuinder to edgehog/fullycharged bat against marth; (this is so ****)
I can still combo with pk thunder/make it lead to techchase on platforms;
running up and shielding to w/e still works sometimes. Can't spam it or I just get grabbed lol.
Things i wanna play around with more:
delayed SHing to either an aerial/or djc waveland onto a platform;
platform tricks in general;
usmash oos (if i can get consistent with this, than djc fair oos will become more powerful cuz of this mix up)
anyone have more ideas?
i still dont combo with dthrow to dash attack, i have no idea when it works and on what characters
ninja'd, yea nair *****. I actually have been using it less. Pretty much only as a oos option. Due to it's lack of range I find it hard to find places to use it. Where else do you use it?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Up-smash out of shield is nice occasionally. Thing that's sweet about it is that it breaks CC at 33%, which is pretty freaking amazing, considering most of his other moves can be CC'ed beyond 60%.
A couple of my anti-Marf tactics.
Wd out of shield -> u-tilt to catch Marth after/between fairs/in the startup of his jump animation (or early in his jump). You can substitute f-tilt/occasionally f-smash or up-smash for the u-tilt.
Shield a Marth fair from close and wavedash through him and then grab him from behind (incredibly good way to compensate for Ness' godawful grab range).
A couple of my anti-Marf tactics.
Wd out of shield -> u-tilt to catch Marth after/between fairs/in the startup of his jump animation (or early in his jump). You can substitute f-tilt/occasionally f-smash or up-smash for the u-tilt.
Shield a Marth fair from close and wavedash through him and then grab him from behind (incredibly good way to compensate for Ness' godawful grab range).
Massive
Smash Champion
I second this.
It stays out an incredibly long time and can mess people up if they're trying to shield-grab you or do some OOS move. It's also awesome for knocking people out of standup animation from the side/ground.
Vs. Marth I've actually had a lot success using PK thunder as a recovery gimp.
If you cancel marth's momentum after he uses dancing sword or his second jump his ability to recover horizontally is effectively ruined. A tail whip from PK thunder or a collision with the side of his body facing away from the stage are both decently effective tactics.
otg
Smash Master
I don't play Peach, but I use Ness's nair in the same fashion a Peach would. It's really strong, fast and stays out for a long time. It's great OOS. It tends to beat most CC attempts which is nice. I don't know how sneaky you guys are with your DJC Fair timing/usage from various positions (as in, if you're standing, how soon do you DJ after your initial jump, or if you're already airborne, what height you begin the DJ while falling, and after you DJ, how far do you commit, etc etc), but if you try to Nair in certain places where you might opt to fair, you'll start to see how good it is. It's priority and speed tend to make it his only saving grace in CQC situations.
toasty
Smash Hero
you should record/upload vids of your ness max,
but i dont wanna see that **** if its vs jona's zelda or nikos roy
but i dont wanna see that **** if its vs jona's zelda or nikos roy
D
Deleted member
Guest
I'll see if I can do something this weekend with my friend tim (Ultimascout). we always have the best matches and I think he's coming up for the weekend.
otg
Smash Master
Bair is great, and I admittedly don't use uair enough. I'll definitely explore with it more.
btw I forgot to mention before (to those who asked) that I like to do things like DJC at the height between a sh and fh with nair away. Stuff like that.
Word, I really only use Ness vs. other low tiers. Jona and niko really don't play anymore. I'll see what i can do tho.
I think yedi was talking to me, but your name's Max as well right?
thesage
Smash Hero
My name is Max as well...
otg
Smash Master
We run ****
thesage
Smash Hero
you probably haven't had anybody call you maxi pad yet.
....................................................................................
or max factor (that sounds pretty cool though).
....................................................................................
or max factor (that sounds pretty cool though).
otg
Smash Master
Maxipad is definitely old news, max factors a new one tho.
thesage
Smash Hero
Do you guys think Ness is worse than Pichu?
lol no
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
BowserMax, NessMax, DocMax, etc.
otg
Smash Master
I don't use Bowser...
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Sypher is BowserMax.
Sage is NessMax.
You use Ness too, but Sage has been using him for years, so I think he gets the title.
Sage is NessMax.
You use Ness too, but Sage has been using him for years, so I think he gets the title.
thesage
Smash Hero
I have been using him since I unlocked him in smash64.
I'm pretty close to dropping him altogether though. Doll gave me a lecture that Ness sucks and that I should stick to Peach. He said he doesn't have to try at all vs. my Ness to 4-stock it, while he actually has to try vs. my Peach. =/
I'm pretty close to dropping him altogether though. Doll gave me a lecture that Ness sucks and that I should stick to Peach. He said he doesn't have to try at all vs. my Ness to 4-stock it, while he actually has to try vs. my Peach. =/
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Doll is mean.
thesage
Smash Hero
No he's not. I've been thinking the same thing for the last couple of months. I wish I had gone all Ness at Pound V. I would've placed the same and it would've been a proper sendoff. Now I'm just going to go all Peach. Fair is to easy to sdi, pkt is too punishable if you miss, his combos are too hard to do for not that much reward. I'm better off as a player finishing off learning Peach well enough so I can make it to brackets and then maybe I'll try Ness again.
D
Deleted member
Guest
lol, i'll beat doll's peach w/ ness. watch me.
thesage
Smash Hero
I've 3 stocked him twice in a row. One time when he wasn't trying...
Remember I made you quit out of a match against my Peach?
Remember I made you quit out of a match against my Peach?
Massive
Smash Champion
Your Ness will get better when you get better with other characters.
I've seen it many, many times. Cross training improves all of your characters, not just the one you're playing with.
I've seen it many, many times. Cross training improves all of your characters, not just the one you're playing with.
Thats not true all the time.
Though personally, usually when i get better with other chars my ness does as well. But most recently i got a lot better and noticed a distinct difference in how i perceive the game which made most of my characters better, except for my ness.
Though personally, usually when i get better with other chars my ness does as well. But most recently i got a lot better and noticed a distinct difference in how i perceive the game which made most of my characters better, except for my ness.
Massive
Smash Champion
My DJCs definitely got looser by not playing him as frequently, but I feel as though I have more than made up for it with the improvements made in tech skill and mindgames.
Big jumps in skill usually stem from some kind of character specific epiphany, so that could preclude the bonuses for your Ness.
Big jumps in skill usually stem from some kind of character specific epiphany, so that could preclude the bonuses for your Ness.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
How do you guys get out of air trapping situations? I feel like airdodging is counterproductive since Ness is so floaty.
I would imagine that falling down with fair/nair to cover your tracks could occasionally work if you're tricky with the spacing. Also, PK Fire might be worth using sparingly since you can shoot it backwards. It might catch people at some awkward angles.
I would imagine that falling down with fair/nair to cover your tracks could occasionally work if you're tricky with the spacing. Also, PK Fire might be worth using sparingly since you can shoot it backwards. It might catch people at some awkward angles.
Massive
Smash Champion
I use dair when I'm just trying to get back on the ground.
The hitbox stays out long enough you can usually plow through most moves with it, and it's directed straight down. The startup time is the only thing to worry about. Otherwise Fair.
Every time I've used pk fire in a situation other than tech chasing or ledge guarding I've regretted it. It is not a defensive move because the range is so small and the recovery lag is enormous.
The hitbox stays out long enough you can usually plow through most moves with it, and it's directed straight down. The startup time is the only thing to worry about. Otherwise Fair.
Every time I've used pk fire in a situation other than tech chasing or ledge guarding I've regretted it. It is not a defensive move because the range is so small and the recovery lag is enormous.
thesage
Smash Hero
You can also use the descend from heaven technique lol.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I might try falling down with PSI Magnet once in a while just to confuse people. 
thesage
Smash Hero
That works..... sometimes........