Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[Fenrir VII]

@ mega4000 ,
You're right about metal blade being fairly unreliable, but the nice thing is that the down-angled MB is essentially a safe poke, so you throw it... if it lands, you get an utilt... if not, you just don't go for the utilt and you're still safe. That's an incredibly nice tool to have that essentially solves the issues of a safe way to get kills.

Also the blade doesn't have to hit twice to get the utilt. It all depends on your spacing when the blade lands. As the blade causes a small amount of pop-up, which makes the opponent land. You can hit the utilt during their landing lag. That's really the optimal use. Now to your point, I find the straight downward MB much harder to reliably connect into utilt (partially because it's much harder to actually hit the blade, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Blue24]

Mega Man has above average killmoves in terms of raw killpower.
The current problem is that they are (A) fairly hard to setup and (B) very bad for you on miss/shield.

IMO, Megaman WOULD have a shot at top 3 if his kill moves were easy to set up and lower in risk

 

[Locke 06]

Of matchups I actually feel like I understand:
- I've played a lot of Mega vs Greninja. That's probably my most well known matchup. It seems to be a very even matchup in my experience. He strings us along incredibly well and can space things like his FAir which is safe on shield. We can't take advantage of his major flaw, which is poor OOS options (best is Jab OOS), but we do keep him out well and win neutral (like usual). Maybe it's the fact that my training partner plays Greninja and we've been going even since November with us both improving as players.

- NAir is good and safe. But just being patient against those approaches, much like Sheik and her FAir approaches, helps a lot. Her lack of a normal grab makes our defense incredibly strong and a whiffed grab should always be a hard punish. That said, her reward off of a grab is great (dthrow>uair kills) so she'll be looking for those opportunities. I think we have a good matchup against a top tier, but she's a top for a reason. Ability to shut down her paralyzer game, as well as being short, pushes the needle for Mega Man.


And jab lock>utilt is a solid kill setup off of a sourspot FAir (5% hit) as well as landing traps (Air dodge into the ground>punish). Fsmash is a somewhat safe kill move at the right range. And uair kills are always fun. That said, most of my kills come from punishes, reads, and edge guards in that order.

 

[mega4000]

@ mega4000 ,
You're right about metal blade being fairly unreliable, but the nice thing is that the down-angled MB is essentially a safe poke, so you throw it... if it lands, you get an utilt... if not, you just don't go for the utilt and you're still safe. That's an incredibly nice tool to have that essentially solves the issues of a safe way to get kills.

Also the blade doesn't have to hit twice to get the utilt. It all depends on your spacing when the blade lands. As the blade causes a small amount of pop-up, which makes the opponent land. You can hit the utilt during their landing lag. That's really the optimal use. Now to your point, I find the straight downward MB much harder to reliably connect into utilt (partially because it's much harder to actually hit the blade, but that's just my 2 cents.

the problem with de down-angled MB is you have very few time to see if it will connect or not, because if the opponent blocks it and you go neard, he can grab you. The only safe solution I've found is 1 mastering my reflex and two, if I see a block i retreat in the air while using lemons. Never use the flamesword after the MB if they don't have a crash bomb attached.

Of matchups I actually feel like I understand:
And jab lock>utilt is a solid kill setup off of a sourspot FAir (5% hit) as well as landing traps (Air dodge into the ground>punish). Fsmash is a somewhat safe kill move at the right range. And uair kills are always fun. That said, most of my kills come from punishes, reads, and edge guards in that order.

Could you explain how to jab lock consistently with FAir or anyother move? also, the key for ZSS match are the lemons. Never face her, just spam the crap out of her, because she can't spam you. They usually get very frustrate when you jump and shoot all the time without giving them a chance to punish.

 

[CopShowGuy]

bair on the ground is unsafe against shield. You can use bair only in the air, unless you know a way to perform bair on the ground and make it safe..

I don't mean using it so low to the ground. It has some landing lag on it. It's a solid kill move off stage and in the air though. Also you can SH bair.

 

[mega4000]

I don't mean using it so low to the ground. It has some landing lag on it. It's a solid kill move off stage and in the air though. Also you can SH bair.

how can you make SH bair safe against shield?

 

[CopShowGuy]

Retreat in the air. You have a little weave room before you land.

 

[Locke 06]

Could you explain how to jab lock consistently with FAir or anyother move?

At certain %'s, some moves launch at a low angle close to the ground and force your opponent to tech and react quickly. Most easily done is dash attack at 0%. If they miss the tech, you can jab lock with lemons while moving forward to get in position to utilt.

Jab locking is hitting them while they're down but not hitting them out of their knocked down state. In this, your opponent cannot get up or do anything and just flops in place.

Sourspot FAir starts doing this at 90-100% which is well over utilt kill%. It's very easy to do if you want to try it out in training mode. The trick is getting the 5% hit. Once you do that, you just fire 3 lemons while walking forward and you have your kill.

 

[mega4000]

At certain %'s, some moves launch at a low angle close to the ground and force your opponent to tech and react quickly. Most easily done is dash attack at 0%. If they miss the tech, you can jab lock with lemons while moving forward to get in position to utilt.

Jab locking is hitting them while they're down but not hitting them out of their knocked down state. In this, your opponent cannot get up or do anything and just flops in place.

Sourspot FAir starts doing this at 90-100% which is well over utilt kill%. It's very easy to do if you want to try it out in training mode. The trick is getting the 5% hit. Once you do that, you just fire 3 lemons while walking forward and you have your kill.

should I do it with SH? I really don't get what is sourspot.

 

[Chickenmcdonky]

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd let you all know that i'm taking the Megster to a local tourney next week. A bit nervous about it but I have Shulk to fall back on for bad matchups thankfully. Nothing big, around 20-30 players with a few out-of-towners joining in. You veterans have any friendly advice for me? Haven't been to a pro-styled tourney for about 10 years and i lost that one to a 12 year old Dr Mario player. I don't expect to win or anything, i'm sure there will be some talent there ready to stomp my ass. That being said, wish me luck. I'm excited as hell for it.

Edit: i was only 14 at the last one i went to. There were wavedashers there. The salt was real.

 

[mega4000]

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd let you all know that i'm taking the Megster to a local tourney next week. A bit nervous about it but I have Shulk to fall back on for bad matchups thankfully. Nothing big, around 20-30 players with a few out-of-towners joining in. You veterans have any friendly advice for me? Haven't been to a pro-styled tourney for about 10 years and i lost that one to a 12 year old Dr Mario player. I don't expect to win or anything, i'm sure there will be some talent there ready to stomp my ***. That being said, wish me luck. I'm excited as hell for it.

Edit: i was only 14 at the last one i went to. There were wavedashers there. The salt was real.

my advice: practice your kill setups, because killing with mega man is very very hard in high competitive play. If you lose it will be because you coudn't get the killing blow, remember that.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Be patient and don't over-commit to anything that will get you hurt before you're ready to finish them.

 

[ScAtt77]

Anyone have any tips for fighting Greninja and Bowser Jr.?

 

[Dr.Megaman]

I need help with the match up

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Captain can be a tough one. You really just need to whittle him down with pellets and blades. You can't commit to smashed cause he can punish so well. Also he actually is really good at keeping is from getting back on the ledge.

 

[Locke 06]

I play against a regular Ness main. He always recovers very low unless put in a terrible position. So low that I can't possibly leaf stool or dair meteor without putting my self in terrible danger of not making it back.

*EDIT*
Sorry for being WAY late to that discussion. I was catching up on the topic and felt like throwing that in after forgetting this topic moved on.

Don't worry about it. I'm not really sure how low that can be. PKT2 travels far, but not further than Rush and certainly not further than Rush+double jump. If Ness is recovering that low, you should be able to throw a metal blade at his recovery to half the distance and kill him that way. Worst case scenario is that you get hit by PKT2 and you both die. I'd try to get used to run off DAir without fast falling, because that seems like it should work while conserving your double jump. To be honest, I haven't used the metal blade against Ness' recovery (I probably should). I usually body block (when I am at low %'s), DAir, go for a NAir gimp, Leafstool again, or BAir. Since Ness is stagnant during PKT, DAir usually works out if they're not under the stage. BAir works if they try to ride the stage, but they can tech it.

re sourspot FAir: I have never been able to get it out of a sh, but that would be ideal. What I do is full hop and FAir at the apex>fast fall. It's incredibly unsafe on shield, but reward can be nice. Also, the sourspot isn't really a spot; it's the last frames of the attack.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Low enough that he's already moving upwards by the time I can get in dair range. Low enough that I can't get rid of Leaf Shield soon enough unless I activate it very early.

 

[mega4000]

I'd try to get used to run off DAir without fast falling,

How do you do that without fastfalling?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

C stick on wiiU. Not worth the risk on 3ds

 

[mega4000]

C stick on wiiU. Not worth the risk on 3ds

I still fastfall using the c stick. Why is that? Is something wrong I'm doing?

 

[Locke 06]

Smash C-stick is similarly difficult as using a normal input. Tilt C-stick you can do it without any problem.

Normal input you just have to be careful and flick the control stick down. If you hold it too long, you'll fast fall. I don't have technical specifics, but the input is not very forgiving.

 

[p1ay6ack]

does anyone know what generally works in the samus matchup? i feel like i got to condition samus into grabbing me so i shiled alot and sometimes do nothing, so they approach, and it works

but then, samus catches on and they start camping with the charged shot -_-

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I've had a lot of trouble with Samus as well.

I think the key it to be not too far (or you get out projectiled) or too close (get meleed). Stay right at lemons range. Which can be tough to do.

Most opponents it doesn't hurt to be a little outside of lemon range but with samus it does so you have to watch that.

 

[p1ay6ack]

I've had a lot of trouble with Samus as well.

I think the key it to be not too far (or you get out projectiled) or too close (get meleed). Stay right at lemons range. Which can be tough to do.

Most opponents it doesn't hurt to be a little outside of lemon range but with samus it does so you have to watch that.

oh that's really good. ive fought samus players who just mash a when i lemon spam at that mid distance. how do you deal with samus rolls? tbh, its quite hard to punish as a megaman player, because of samus fast smash att out of it o.o

 

[Sorichuudo]

oh that's really good. ive fought samus players who just mash a when i lemon spam at that mid distance. how do you deal with samus rolls? tbh, its quite hard to punish as a megaman player, because of samus fast smash att out of it o.o

Honestly, when Chopper Dave said she is one of our worst matchups, he was NOT kidding. Even the slightly decent ones can give you trouble.

It is pretty much what KRT said, the way to go is to stay at lemon range so we can deal with her missiles, harass her while she tries to charge up, and be able to react if she decides to go close combat on us.

As for her rolls, if you can predict it, fsmash works wonders, you should be safe with a some distance and should have time to charge it a little.

Her missile+charge shot barrage is really annoying but as long as you keep harassing her, you should be able to deal with it, plus is one matchup where we can use fsmash safely as she lands.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Honestly, when Chopper Dave said she is one of our worst matchups, he was NOT kidding. Even the slightly decent ones can give you trouble.

It is pretty much what KRT said, the way to go is to stay at lemon range so we can deal with her missiles, harass her while she tries to charge up, and be able to react if she decides to go close combat on us.

As for her rolls, if you can predict it, fsmash works wonders, you should be safe with a some distance and should have time to charge it a little.

Her missile+charge shot barrage is really annoying but as long as you keep harassing her, you should be able to deal with it, plus is one matchup where we can use fsmash safely as she lands.

yea ive fought decent ones and very high skilled ones o.o....omg the highskilled ones know thier frame data, cuz when im off the stage, they know exactly when to fire charged shot, and hit me everytime, or put me in a very dangerous spot e_e thanks about the charged shot. i'll try to apply that the next time i see a samus player
p.s.its a funny matchup cuz one time i was able to 0 to death a samus player, and i noticed the samus player just started spamming a and b moves, and made it easy to predict,

 

[---]

Any thoughts on Wario? The bike is always annoying to deal with, and Chomp counters/baits out Metal Blade approaches. His aerial momentum doesn't help either.

Fought a Wario main the other day in FG who knew what they were doing (as rare as that is for an already rarely seen character) and I got destroyed.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Metal Blades knock him off the bike for starters.

 

[Locke 06]

Woop. Wario matchup time. Sorry about the delay.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I've fought some tough Warios. He is surprisingly fast and strong with a small frame which makes him tough to hit. His smashes pack a punch.

I think this is a tough matchup for mega. Again I think the key is to not overcommit to anything because wario punishes extremely well.

Keep at lemon range or further which is tough because of warios speed.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

The more and more i've been playing on Anthers ladder the more I've realized who Mega has trouble with.

It seems the faster the characters and the better they can combo the harder time mega has. It seems like characters like Captain Falcon, Sonic, are tough. Even characters that are relatively slow but have good combo ability like Luigi, Mario, Wario can be a real problem if you let them get in close.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry if this isn't the right place for this, I looked around a little bit and wasn't sure where else to mention this, so yeah. Right now we're discussing the Megaman match-up in the TL board, so if anyone can help us out there it would be really appreciated. http://smashboards.com/threads/tl-match-up-discussion-week-14-megaman-mk-g-w-ness.378737/

 

[Locke 06]

Sorry if this isn't the right place for this, I looked around a little bit and wasn't sure where else to mention this, so yeah. Right now we're discussing the Megaman match-up in the TL board, so if anyone can help us out there it would be really appreciated. http://smashboards.com/threads/tl-match-up-discussion-week-14-megaman-mk-g-w-ness.378737/

The perfect place for it.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Lemon walls.

How to avoid.

pls

 

[Fenrir VII]

Lemon walls.

How to avoid.

pls

 

[Aunt Jemima]

So I grab them and pocket them, go home, make lemonade, then pour it all over Mega Man and watch as he shorts out and eventually dies?

Thanks!

 

[Zensay]

Hey there, I didn't see a lot of discussion about Villager in these threads and there was a short but rather deep conversation about Mega Man over on the Villager boards. If anyone has any experience in the MU and would like to share their thoughts it would be most appreciated. Otherwise it might be useful information if your having trouble against Villager. http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-13

 

[Kronos2560]

Neither Shiek or ZSS where as bad as I originally thought they would be when I played them today in a tournament. I only do poorly against character who negate my projectiles or match ups I am currently unfamiliar with. (Donkey Kong seems like a completely different character to me)

Hey SS, I'm a competitive Megaman player as well. I'm the highest rated one in Northern California, and I wanted to collab with you about match up issues.

I placed top-16 at a 128-man regional tournament, only losing to the guy who won (NME Zex) and a guy who finished top-8, and is one of the best Warios in the region.

I have trouble fighting Shiek for sure, but the character that sneakily gives Megaman A LOT of trouble is Wario.

Megaman can go toes with him in the neutral game, but it is insanely hard for me to secure a kill. Back throw usually doesn't kill until 200, and it's very difficult to land an upsmash because he doesn't have to do anything unsafe. He literally waits me out, bikes through lemons, and punishes stupid mistakes.

My question to you is, when you are fishing for kills, what do you think is Megaman's safest kill option when dealing with a character with superior air movement? (One like Wario)

 

[Ffamran]

Hey SS, I'm a competitive Megaman player as well. I'm the highest rated one in Northern California, and I wanted to collab with you about match up issues.

I placed top-16 at a 128-man regional tournament, only losing to the guy who won (NME Zex) and a guy who finished top-8, and is one of the best Warios in the region.

I have trouble fighting Shiek for sure, but the character that sneakily gives Megaman A LOT of trouble is Wario.

Megaman can go toes with him in the neutral game, but it is insanely hard for me to secure a kill. Back throw usually doesn't kill until 200, and it's very difficult to land an upsmash because he doesn't have to do anything unsafe. He literally waits me out, bikes through lemons, and punishes stupid mistakes.

My question to you is, when you are fishing for kills, what do you think is Megaman's safest kill option when dealing with a character with superior air movement? (One like Wario)

Wait, aren't you the Kronos2560 whose videos are uploaded by showdowngg? Like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkeyqX-6t4.

If so, awesome.

Edit: I just looked for your name, so I didn't completely watch the video when this was posted, and yeah... That Sheik is crazy. Nevertheless, still cool.

 

[Kronos2560]

Wait, aren't you the Kronos2560 whose videos are uploaded by showdowngg? Like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkeyqX-6t4.

If so, awesome.

Edit: I just looked for your name, so I didn't completely watch the video when this was posted, and yeah... That Sheik is crazy. Nevertheless, still cool.

Yeah, I'm him! Zex is the best player in Northern Cal, but lives with ZeRo and M2K in Socal right now, where he's rated top 5. Tough match, haha, but I promise there are better videos of me out there.