General Legend of Zelda Rep Support Thread

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Breath of the Wild is my favorite game in the series so far, and it was really wild to me seeing how some of my favorite aspects of the game were seen as flaws for P PhantomShab

To throw in my two cents... The music was definitely different, but bad? Hell no. The music is some of the best in the entire series, because it so perfectly fits the game. Sure, none of it going to make you start banging your head and tapping your feet... but it's not supposed to. The music is supposed to add to the experience, and it does so perfectly without distracting from the game at all. The horse riding music is godlike.

The "no actual dungeons" comment really is only a problem because they visually were similar. The dungeon design in BotW is really good, and perfectly serves the gameplay of "you can do whatever you want" where every puzzle has at least 30 solutions. I will definitely admit that they were visually boring after a while, though.

The stronger enemies in the game do seem like damage sponges at times (and in Master Mode they DEFINITELY are terrible) but I think it's really to encourage you to not just straight up fight them. You don't have the Triforce of Power, you have the Triforce of Courage. Find a clever way to beat your enemies instead of just throwing down without any sort of plan at all. If you go into every fight just throwing your weapons down like a madman, you're gonna break them all and be sad. But if you go into them stealthily and get sneakstrikes, or try to trick them or lure them places with food, etc etc you're going to be way better off.

Basically what I'm saying is, I think all the people who didn't like BotW were expecting a Zelda game more like what we've been getting like OoT or TP or SS, when we got a Zelda game that feels much more like a sequel to the original Zelda game on the NES. My favorite Zelda game before BotW came out was MM, and I am not exactly a huge fan of OoT or any of the other OoT-esque games, so for me it was perfect.

What I want them to do in the sequel is get rid of the shrines and make the inevitable replacement for spirit orbs just be found in the world. Instead of finding a shrine, going inside and doing a puzzle, you find a puzzle in the world. That would make the ""tedium"" of the shrines completely negated. That and making the main dungeons more visually different would help. As much as I think the enemies were well-done for the type of game it was, more varieties and different AI instead of just more health would be a lot more fun.

 

[Darklink46]

I think it’s all just getting used to the new format that BotW brings. I personally am not keen on the music, but it’s perfectly fine if you are. Sometimes the music (like the horse riding tunes) were maybe just a bit too abstract. The music just feels sorely lacking when you stack it up against other entries. Like because a lot of the overworld theme is so quiet, when there are tunes that are supposed to be more impactful, they become less noticeable. Honestly, I think without playing the game again, I couldn’t recall many tunes except maybe Kass’ Theme and the Hyrule Castle music.

As an example, I certainly wouldn’t put the Dark Beast Ganon battle music anywhere near on par to say, OoT’s Ganon fight. The OoT fight felt epic (partially down to the soundtrack but also the setting), whereas BotW’s didn’t feel climactic at all. I believe it used a similar theme to the main theme? It just doesn’t feel like boss music.

I reached the point I was going and buying soundtracks for most games after OoT up to ALBW but the music in BotW just didn’t give me that sense of adventure, don’t get me started on Midna’s Lament or Gerudo Valley. PokéfreakofBACON I think a lot of your thoughts I could already apply to the series as a whole long before BotW and so my view is why change something that isn’t broken? I enjoyed BotW but as I’ve said before, not for the reasons I usually enjoy a Zelda game. One of the main reasons I buy Zelda (and most Nintendo franchises) is because I always found the music absorbing and feeling provoking. The music in BotW never really did that for me. It’s not that I think the music was bad, it just didn’t live up to my expectations and when you take away a key part of someone’s experience, I think it’s only natural they will a bit lost or let down.

I don’t think my problems with the dungeons were visual as I expected them to look similar what with them all being Sheikah made Divine Beasts. It’s more the repetitiveness of the “activate terminal” when there could have perhaps been some other elements. I think they should have lasted longer. People have been complaining for years that Zelda dungeons were too easy, yet even in say TP, a dungeon would take me at least an hour, whereas BotW’s (except for Hyrule Castle) took me about 20 minutes each which considering they are supposed to be big parts of the game (and the series) is disappointing. I still find the lack of enemies very frustrating if I’m honest. No mini boss either. The only problem visually I had with the dungeons was the boss design. They all looked far too similar and were all fairly one dimensional, basically hit with a weapon until they’re beaten (not necessarily having to do anything else beforehand). They were certainly close to the classic NES bosses in that regard, but I think those sort of bosses are just a bit too simple for this day and age. I mean, I go into a Mario game, expecting Bowser to not be particularly challenging but with Zelda, I absolutely expect Ganon to be tough the first time I fight him. His Beast form was almost entirely immobile and just sat there allowing you to pepper him light arrows and that was all there was to the fight. Hyrule Warriors Ganon was an incredible fight. The fact that you had to use every item you’d collected to weaken him, then use light arrows and THEN attack him with your weapon.

I know this was the way most Zelda bosses worked even before BotW but it felt that you could experiment with different items to see the result. You didn’t necessarily have to use a dungeon item on its boss. For example, I only found out the other day that you could use ice arrows on Bongo Bongo in OoT to disable him. I never really felt that level of multidimensionality with BotW’s bosses (except maybe the dlc boss - easily the best in the game in my opinion).

One of the biggest complaints I actually have about BotW is that during development Nintendo said we were going to learn more about the Sheikah but after playing through the game (for well over 100 hours) I didn’t feel I learnt anything new about them that we hadn’t been told before release (except maybe the Yiga clan...)

Maybe I’m being too overprotective of Zelda tradition. It’s usually hard to accept change (look at the furore over Pokemon SnS). I think it just feels from my point of view that a lot of the things others see as improvements I don’t see the same way or if I do, it’s like a one step forward, two steps back scenario.

 

[fogbadge]

why is it every time a group of zelda fans get together it all ends up going on about a game that one fan said they didnt like?

 

[Darklink46]

why is it every time a group of zelda fans get together it all ends up going on about a game that one fan said they didnt like?

Well to be fair, people have said they didn’t really like Zelda games other than BotW. I think it’s just because that’s the latest entry so it’s the title discussed the most... Also, I wouldn’t put it down to just Zelda fans, I would say it’s probably true of almost any fan base.

Sometimes, I think people’s opinions come across as if they’re trying to state facts, rather than put their point of view across, so others start to clash with them.

That being said, what else should we talk about? How about we all name our favourite dungeon from the entire series (and if that’s a bit too difficult, maybe top 3)?

I think I’d have to go with the Water Temple (OoT). Unpopular opinion I know but I enjoyed the challenging nature of it, the longshot upgrade was cool as the hookshot is probably my favourite item of the series so far and the Dark Link fight is just so cool and memorable.

If I was to name two more, I think I’d go with the Stone Tower Temple (MM) as the music is just fantastic and the inversion mechanic is amazing. I’m starting to struggle to actually narrow it down lol. I like so many of them. Perhaps Arbiter’s Grounds (TP) just because of the spinner being fun as hell to use and the Stallord boss is so fun, despite how easy it is.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Well to be fair, people have said they didn’t really like Zelda games other than BotW. I think it’s just because that’s the latest entry so it’s the title discussed the most... Also, I wouldn’t put it down to just Zelda fans, I would say it’s probably true of almost any fan base.

Sometimes, I think people’s opinions come across as if they’re trying to state facts, rather than put their point of view across, so others start to clash with them.

That being said, what else should we talk about? How about we all name our favourite dungeon from the entire series (and if that’s a bit too difficult, maybe top 3)?

I think I’d have to go with the Water Temple (OoT). Unpopular opinion I know but I enjoyed the challenging nature of it, the longshot upgrade was cool as the hookshot is probably my favourite item of the series so far and the Dark Link fight is just so cool and memorable.

If I was to name two more, I think I’d go with the Stone Tower Temple (MM) as the music is just fantastic and the inversion mechanic is amazing. I’m starting to struggle to actually narrow it down lol. I like so many of them. Perhaps Arbiter’s Grounds (TP) just because of the spinner being fun as hell to use and the Stallord boss is so fun, despite how easy it is.

Snowpeak Ruins will always be my favorite dungeon in the series. The fact that an entire dungeon was designed around making a pot of soup is just genius.

Great music, great boss, fun puzzles, and just atmospheric as hell.

 

[PhantomShab]

Just a few things I really want to respond to here.

Basically what I'm saying is, I think all the people who didn't like BotW were expecting a Zelda game more like what we've been getting like OoT or TP or SS

I was expecting a Zelda game on an open world scale. What I got was a new ip with the Zelda name slapped on it.

when we got a Zelda game that feels much more like a sequel to the original Zelda game on the NES.

Zelda NES and BotW are nothing alike, at all. You still need certain items and the average player wouldn't be getting through the later dungeons right from the start because they have actual enemies that would one-shot them instead of floating skulls that pose no threat whatsoever. It also had actual dungeons. Zelda NES is unironically closer to the OoT-style Zelda games than it is to BotW. Aonuma saying it's closer to the first very first Zelda game (which he's confirmed himself to have never even beaten lol) and an extremely misleading piece of artwork for BotW was nothing but marketing. BotW has a lot more in common with your average Ubisoft game than it does with the original Zelda.

why is it every time a group of zelda fans get together it all ends up going on about a game that one fan said they didnt like?

That's the Nintendo community for you.

 

[fogbadge]

Well to be fair, people have said they didn’t really like Zelda games other than BotW. I think it’s just because that’s the latest entry so it’s the title discussed the most... Also, I wouldn’t put it down to just Zelda fans, I would say it’s probably true of almost any fan base.

maybe i was thinking of another forum

 

[Darklink46]

Snowpeak Ruins will always be my favorite dungeon in the series. The fact that an entire dungeon was designed around making a pot of soup is just genius.

Great music, great boss, fun puzzles, and just atmospheric as hell.

OMG, I can’t believe I forgot Snowpeak Ruins! That music, cool (no pun intended) miniboss, interesting enemies (love the ice shard ones), the mansion setting, ice sliding blocks, great dungeon item and a sudden twist at the end for the boss. I actually liked the system of “go to this room, key is definitely here”, find random soup item, and the male yeti: “Well let’s just make the best of this situation!” Darunia shove Link “Thanks for the ingredient, now bring me more!”

Now I’m not sure of my top 3 anymore lol!

 

[Darklink46]

Zelda NES and BotW are nothing alike, at all. You still need certain items and the average player wouldn't be getting through the later dungeons right from the start because they have actual enemies that would one-shot them instead of floating skulls that pose no threat whatsoever. It also had actual dungeons. Zelda NES is unironically closer to the OoT-style Zelda games than it is to BotW. Aonuma saying it's closer to the first very first Zelda game (which he's confirmed himself to have never even beaten lol) and an extremely misleading piece of artwork for BotW was nothing but marketing. BotW has a lot more in common with your average Ubisoft game than it does with the original Zelda

While I agree with some of your points, like the certain item requirements and the floating heads for dungeon enemies, I think when Aonuma said BotW is closer to Zelda NES, he meant more the exploration aspect. As in, you are plonked into Hyrule (albeit, after an hour or so on the Great Plateau) but then you’re free to explore any direction which is what Zelda NES did. Ok there were some places you required certain items (like OoT) but BotW did that too, in a different way, like with clothing for example. You couldn’t easily get up Death Mountain without elixirs and then buying clothing items to be able to stay there long term.

Your comparison about later dungeons in Zelda NES is a bit skewed against BotW in my opinion. The average player wouldn’t be able to make it through Hyrule Castle in BotW right from the start. Limited resources/armour would see to that.

Now, I’m not saying I love BotW. I did come away feeling a bit disappointed. I felt like Mario had made the jump to open world beautifully whereas Zelda suffered losing its charm and identity along the way. Don’t even get me started on the voice acting: cringeworthy on multiple occasions. Why they couldn’t get a British actress to voice Zelda instead of using someone from the US to put on a false accent (and it shows), I’ll never know.

There are things that upset me about BotW. Before that, I would have agreed with fogbadge about blindly loving the series, (although I never want anything to do with the CDi games). But there comes a time when things change, maybe just a bit too much. I adored Hyrule Warriors because I felt it kept the essence of the series, even though it was mainly a hack ‘n slash game. But that essence seemed absent for much of BotW. There were some good moments, sure, but in my opinion, outweighed just a bit by the bad things. Dungeons have always been top of my list in things I love about the series: The dungeons in BotW felt like they were stripped down to the bare bones. I love puzzle solving but if it’s too easy and doesn’t take very long, there’s not really any satisfaction in finding solutions. I have to admit, I never really felt that there were loads of potential solutions to one puzzle. Maybe just because once you’ve found a solution, it’s hard to try and rethink of a new way round things.

This is why I love traditional Zelda and games like Portal. Ok, the puzzles might not have a myriad of alternative solutions but they vary in difficulty where some might take you only a moment to spot the solution whereas others are more challenging and take some thought and therefore you end up feeling satisfaction when you solve one you’ve struggled with for a little while. I never really hit that point in BotW, perhaps because the dungeons were so short? In my opinion, 20 minutes is not long enough for a dungeon, that’s a glorified shrine, if anything.

Sorry I’ve gone back to talking about negatives again but Zelda is so important to me that if I don’t speak my mind, it would feel like it’s losing its significance... Which is something I don’t want to happen. It’s been a big part of my life growing up.

 

[fogbadge]

(although I never want anything to do with the CDi games)..

i dont think anyone does

 

[PhantomShab]

Blindly loving something isn't exactly a positive thing to be proud of. That's essentially being a fanboy who refuses to look at something they like critically.

 

[fogbadge]

Blindly loving something isn't exactly a positive thing to be proud of. That's essentially being a fanboy who refuses to look at something they like critically.

well thats just rude, there is nothing wrong with taking extreme enjoyment out of something, and what skin is it off your nose if we do

how dare you

 

[Darklink46]

Blindly loving something isn't exactly a positive thing to be proud of. That's essentially being a fanboy who refuses to look at something they like critically.

Which is why I said I agreed with you on several points. Its very easy to end up being a sheep (I don’t want to call anyone that, it’s the only way I can think to describe it) and just blindly going along with everything someone does. I wasn’t saying I wanted to be blindly loving of the Zelda series, more that I liked it the way it was and when things change that I don’t agree with, there’s nothing wrong with putting my opinion forward. It’s why I now critique Smash for lack of new Zelda characters, whereas lots of people act like everything to do with Smash is 100% perfect. I’ve also started to feel this way regarding the Pokemon series, now that they’ve decided to cut core content...

 

[Darklink46]

well thats just rude, there is nothing wrong with taking extreme enjoyment out of something, and what skin is it off your nose if we do

how dare you

Ok guys, come on. Let’s not take this discussion in the wrong direction. I apologise about the “sheep” comment but I honestly couldn’t think how else to word it. Please don’t take it as I’m commenting on anyone in particular. I mean I’ve been a sheep myself with a lot of game series in the past and have only recently started voicing my concerns. I don’t like to complain really, but if you love something, then it only makes sense you’re going to comment on what you perceive to be negative changes.

I understand what fogbadge is saying but I will point out that sometimes, criticism needs to be stated for the record. Just not in a way that (a) offends other people and (b) tries to push their opinion onto others. If there’s never any criticism of things, things might not change for the better. I could argue that it was criticism of the Zelda series that led us to BotW, as I understand it, a large proportion of the fan base felt like the OoT style of Zelda games was getting stale and the series was stuck in the past because of this and that’s one of the main reasons they went all out with changing so much for BotW.

I think one of the other problems as well is when people/developers choose to ignore criticism. It’s how we end up with series like Paper Mario being a shadow of its former self.

At the end of the day, opinions are subjective so it’s inevitable that you will eventually meet someone with opinions that clash with yours...

 

[PhantomShab]

well thats just rude, there is nothing wrong with taking extreme enjoyment out of something, and what skin is it off your nose if we do

how dare you

It's not rude, it's true. It's ok to love something but also voice your criticisms over something you feel could be improved about it.

 

[Impa4Smash]

OMG, I can’t believe I forgot Snowpeak Ruins! That music, cool (no pun intended) miniboss, interesting enemies (love the ice shard ones), the mansion setting, ice sliding blocks, great dungeon item and a sudden twist at the end for the boss. I actually liked the system of “go to this room, key is definitely here”, find random soup item, and the male yeti: “Well let’s just make the best of this situation!” Darunia shove Link “Thanks for the ingredient, now bring me more!”

Now I’m not sure of my top 3 anymore lol!

Honestly Twilight Princess, while maybe not the best Zelda as a whole, just has so many amazing dungeons. Snowpeak, Arbitar’s, City in the Sky, and Palace of Twilight are all classics. And the rest are all solid too.

 

[Darklink46]

Honestly Twilight Princess, while maybe not the best Zelda as a whole, just has so many amazing dungeons. Snowpeak, Arbitar’s, City in the Sky, and Palace of Twilight are all classics. And the rest are all solid too.

Agreed, they may be a tad on the easy side, but the designs for all of them are top notch. I still debate to this day which game in the series is my favourite and Twilight Princess is certainly high on the list (possibly due to my love for Ocarina of Time) and I felt a game in the same vein was awesome. I think maybe I’ll always lean towards Ocarina, as it was my introduction to the series and it was why I came to love it so much.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Agreed, they may be a tad on the easy side, but the designs for all of them are top notch. I still debate to this day which game in the series is my favourite and Twilight Princess is certainly high on the list (possibly due to my love for Ocarina of Time) and I felt a game in the same vein was awesome. I think maybe I’ll always lean towards Ocarina, as it was my introduction to the series and it was why I came to love it so much.

Twilight Princess is definitely underrated. It was the first Zelda game I ever played so it holds a special place in my heart - for sure top 5.

Though I agree Ocarina is still king. Maybe with BotW close behind.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

well thats just rude, there is nothing wrong with taking extreme enjoyment out of something, and what skin is it off your nose if we do

how dare you

Nah dawg.
The attitude that you've gotta be 100% loyal and only say nice things about a franchise is terrible attitude, and a form of gatekeeping.
It never sits right with me when I meet a fan that's constantly trying to shame and silence fellow fans for having criticisms. Even if you dont consider their criticisms valid.
Nothing makes me madder than how often people throw around buzzwords like entitled, or toxic, just because they dont think a video game is perfect.

Being a fan who is completely satisfied with every game that comes out, that's fine. I'm happy you found something that consistently makes you happy and you wouldn't change for the world. But being a proud "blind" fan, who looks down your nose at others for having the ability to be critical is really rotten and silencing critique ultimately is counter productive to growth.

In any case, no fan criticizes a series out of malice, they do it because they love the series and want it to be the best it can be ( something Pokemon fans seemingly refuse to acknowledge )
It's not rude, it only seems rude if you take other peoples video game opinions personally.

 

[fogbadge]

Ok guys, come on. Let’s not take this discussion in the wrong direction. I apologise about the “sheep” comment but I honestly couldn’t think how else to word it. Please don’t take it as I’m commenting on anyone in particular. I mean I’ve been a sheep myself with a lot of game series in the past and have only recently started voicing my concerns. I don’t like to complain really, but if you love something, then it only makes sense you’re going to comment on what you perceive to be negative changes.

I understand what fogbadge is saying but I will point out that sometimes, criticism needs to be stated for the record. Just not in a way that (a) offends other people and (b) tries to push their opinion onto others. If there’s never any criticism of things, things might not change for the better. I could argue that it was criticism of the Zelda series that led us to BotW, as I understand it, a large proportion of the fan base felt like the OoT style of Zelda games was getting stale and the series was stuck in the past because of this and that’s one of the main reasons they went all out with changing so much for BotW.

I think one of the other problems as well is when people/developers choose to ignore criticism. It’s how we end up with series like Paper Mario being a shadow of its former self.

At the end of the day, opinions are subjective so it’s inevitable that you will eventually meet someone with opinions that clash with yours...

you posted your sheep comment after i posted that, it wasnt directed at you at all

It's not rude, it's true. It's ok to love something but also voice your criticisms over something you feel could be improved about it.

telling someone they way they enjoy the series is wrong is rude, dont get all judgey with me just cause i have no criticisms

Nah dawg.
The attitude that you've gotta be 100% loyal and only say nice things about a franchise is terrible attitude, and a form of gatekeeping.
It never sits right with me when I meet a fan that's constantly trying to shame and silence fellow fans for having criticisms. Even if you dont consider their criticisms valid.
Nothing makes me madder than how often people throw around buzzwords like entitled, or toxic, just because they dont think a video game is perfect.

Being a fan who is completely satisfied with every game that comes out, that's fine. I'm happy you found something that consistently makes you happy and you wouldn't change for the world. But being a proud "blind" fan, who looks down your nose at others for having the ability to be critical is really rotten and silencing critique ultimately is counter productive to growth.

In any case, no fan criticizes a series out of malice, they do it because they love the series and want it to be the best it can be ( something Pokemon fans seemingly refuse to acknowledge )
It's not rude, it only seems rude if you take other peoples video game opinions personally.

i have not done any of that, i do not look down on people for their differentiating opinions, and i do not try and silence people, you are conflating things based on a simple expression of my love for the series and made assumptions about what i must be like, i just try to point out what i see as flaws in people's logic, give them facts they seem to be missing or occasionally wonder aloud why we must bicker over a game someone doesnt like, why dont you go check to see if ive done any of the things you think im doing before you next start making a commentary

 

[PhantomShab]

telling someone they way they enjoy the series is wrong is rude, dont get all judgey with me just cause i have no criticisms

I didn't say it was wrong, I said it wasn't something to be proud of. Anyone would tell you that loving a game series unconditionally without ever being able to look at or speak about what you feel the game could have done better is textbook fanboy-ism. You can have a mindset like that and still not be obnoxious about it, which you haven't been if it means anything.

 

[Impa4Smash]

So...anyone get into Cadence of Hyrule?

 

[Darklink46]

So...anyone get into Cadence of Hyrule?

Unfortunately all my time at the moment gets taken up with trying to finish the last boss run in Hollow Knight. It’s funny, but I swear the Metroidvania model isn’t far off the traditional Zelda one. When I played through Hollow Knight, I felt like I was playing a Zelda game in some ways: Finding a new item/ability and going back to previous areas to find new routes to explore...

I’m also a bit apprehensive of the melodic style of gameplay. I don’t know how well I’d be able to keep up lol.

 

[Darklink46]

I think one of the problems with differing opinions is that there are always those who behave like: my opinion is the majority opinion, therefore it must be right. Not for a moment am I saying anyone here is doing this.

Can we just agree to disagree? Some people here liked BotW. Others didn’t. And both opinions are ok.

 

[fogbadge]

I didn't say it was wrong, I said it wasn't something to be proud of. Anyone would tell you that loving a game series unconditionally without ever being able to look at or speak about what you feel the game could have done better is textbook fanboy-ism. You can have a mindset like that and still not be obnoxious about it, which you haven't been if it means anything.

well maybe i dont feel they need to be improved, its just not the way i play games i enjoy them for what they are and try not to think about what could have been cause at the end of the day if i enjoy the games thats what matters

if i did have any problems with them i would voice them as i have the with a lot of other things, but i the long run i always have more positive things to say than negative

So...anyone get into Cadence of Hyrule?

yes, it was awesome

 

[Impa4Smash]

Unfortunately all my time at the moment gets taken up with trying to finish the last boss run in Hollow Knight. It’s funny, but I swear the Metroidvania model isn’t far off the traditional Zelda one. When I played through Hollow Knight, I felt like I was playing a Zelda game in some ways: Finding a new item/ability and going back to previous areas to find new routes to explore...

I’m also a bit apprehensive of the melodic style of gameplay. I don’t know how well I’d be able to keep up lol.

Hollow Knight is indeed a fantastic game.

And if you’re interested but are worried about the rhythm element of Cadence - it’s very easy to get the hang of. And a good chunk of the game let’s you explore freely too.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Important character for the series
Is relevant
Appears in many tittles
Huge moveset potential
Is very very popular

 

[Darklink46]

Hollow Knight is indeed a fantastic game

Did you try the pantheons in the last dlc? They’re evil and extremely challenging.

 

[fogbadge]

Important character for the series
Is relevant
Appears in many tittles
Huge moveset potential
Is very very popular

View attachment 233706

to bad all those factors dont always mean anything

 

[Lenidem]

Important character for the series
Is relevant
Appears in many tittles
Huge moveset potential
Is very very popular

View attachment 233706

Would be fun as an assist or a stage hazard. Already is on the bridge of Ordinn.

Would be a waste as a character.

 

[smashingDoug]

1 Twilight Princess Link with his hidden skills woked into his Moveset.

2 Vaati. wind mage would be fun

3 Tingle

 

[fogbadge]

2 Vaati. wind mage would be fun

so his monster form?

 

[Darklink46]

I still think Midna and Skull Kid should definitely get the upgrade from AT to playable. Hyrule Warriors showed how fun it is to play as those two.

I think Vaati would be a great addition as well because as far as I’m aware, he doesn’t really have ANYTHING to show he even exists in Smash. (If he now has a spirit or something, mybad. I’ve not come across it yet). I think probably his Minish Cap form would be best with his wind mage form for his final smash. He could turn characters to stone and use tornadoes for his attacks...

 

[YoshiandToad]

I still think Midna and Skull Kid should definitely get the upgrade from AT to playable. Hyrule Warriors showed how fun it is to play as those two.

I think Vaati would be a great addition as well because as far as I’m aware, he doesn’t really have ANYTHING to show he even exists in Smash. (If he now has a spirit or something, mybad. I’ve not come across it yet). I think probably his Minish Cap form would be best with his wind mage form for his final smash. He could turn characters to stone and use tornadoes for his attacks...

His monster form has a spirit, but nothing of his Minish/humanoid form.

Vaati needs more love from Nintendo in general, despite being fairly popular amongst the fans.

A lot of people seemed annoyed he was missing from Hyrule Warriors, myself included. Koei Tecmo please communicate with Capcom if a sequel ever happens. We need Vaati and the Oracle Games villains!

 

[fogbadge]

His monster form has a spirit, but nothing of his Minish/humanoid form.

Vaati needs more love from Nintendo in general, despite being fairly popular amongst the fans.

A lot of people seemed annoyed he was missing from Hyrule Warriors, myself included. Koei Tecmo please communicate with Capcom if a sequel ever happens. We need Vaati and the Oracle Games villains!

well vaati first appeared in four swords surely capcom dont own part of the right to him cause of that, his minish self sure

 

[Darklink46]

His monster form has a spirit, but nothing of his Minish/humanoid form.

Vaati needs more love from Nintendo in general, despite being fairly popular amongst the fans.

A lot of people seemed annoyed he was missing from Hyrule Warriors, myself included. Koei Tecmo please communicate with Capcom if a sequel ever happens. We need Vaati and the Oracle Games villains!

Ah fair enough. I think his human/mage form would be best to create a character, although I understand Capcom own the rights to that? On the other hand, you’d think working with Capcom on Smash, they could resolve that for Smash at least... If they do a Hyrule Warriors sequel, it would be awesome if they could get Vaati, the Oracles villains and perhaps the Oracles themselves into it...

 

[PhantomShab]

If Nintendo owns all the Donkey Kong characters Rare made then I don't see how they don't also own the Zelda characters that Capcom made. I don't think there was an official statement on it though. I always just chalked it up to Nintendo being too prideful to acknowledge a Zelda game that they didn't make as long as they don't have to.

 

[TheCJBrine]

It is strange if they don't own Vaati, though they don't own the original characters in Super Mario RPG, either...

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Nintendo own the character of Vaati, so they can use him when they wish, but the Human Design does belong to Capcom, and had to be credited as such in the credits of Minish Cap, that's why they are allowed to use it's character as Spirit, but not the Human form

Other than that, and on the general subject of this thread, I'm a big advocate of Midna in Smash personally ! She's been my most wanted since Brawl days, and well .. Since Twilight Princess became my favorite game of all time actually haha

I just find her character to be really amazing in both story, design, power, and personality, she's the definition of "Character Growth" really haha, she was just amazingly made in Twilight Princess, where she is basically the Protag of the game (Everything resolve around her, you're just seing her story, from Link's point of view)

As for her in Smash, I find her to be a pretty interesting candidate ! Like ... Her Hair Power and Magic could translate so well in Smash, I already have a whole moveset planned down for her actually, but with how much potential she have, it would be totally possible to make her completly different, with it still being accurate to the character !

I've been supporting her since a long time, and I don't think I'll stop anytime soon, Midna is just too much of an interesting character, and Zelda rep IMO, I also appreciate how big the fanbase got in Brawl, and how her follow up got after that, in both Brawl, Smash 4, Pre Ultimate and Post Ultimate, Midna always ranged from 1st to 2nd as a Zelda rep in any Fan pools ! Which is huge for a "One Off", I strongly believe that if one of the AT had to be promotted at the moment, Midna would definitly make the cut !

 

[fogbadge]

If Nintendo owns all the Donkey Kong characters Rare made then I don't see how they don't also own the Zelda characters that Capcom made. I don't think there was an official statement on it though. I always just chalked it up to Nintendo being too prideful to acknowledge a Zelda game that they didn't make as long as they don't have to.

well its a different circumstance to be fair, rare made those games as part of nintendo (so they split the up the characters depending on who made what series originally) where as capcom was still separate, closest comparison the whole square owning the smrpg characters but theres nothing to say they had the same deal going on, however in licenced works like the oracles manga i cant find anything acknowledging capcoms ownership which would suggest they dont

so in short i guess your theory holds the most water, does make me wonder who own the HW guys