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General Legend of Zelda Rep Support Thread

Diddy Kong

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I still think only Impa is a likely choice honestly. There’s also a chance she will reappear in BotW2, and as a young warrior Sheikah seeing as her sister Purah was working on an anti aging Rune. Seeing how Impa also appeared with her Skyward Sword design WITH Hyrule Warriors’ Naginata in Cadence of Hyrule, there’s a chance they will try to make it canon. Because the reception on Impa in HW was great, and she’s easily one of the more important key characters outside of the Triforce trio and Cia / Lana.

I just wanna believe, you know. Impa could use the Sheikah Slate abilities of the original BotW, seeing these abilities are all Sheikah in origin. Then again we know next to nothing about BotW2, only that Ganondorf is a zombie.
 

Darklink46

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I still think only Impa is a likely choice honestly. There’s also a chance she will reappear in BotW2, and as a young warrior Sheikah seeing as her sister Purah was working on an anti aging Rune. Seeing how Impa also appeared with her Skyward Sword design WITH Hyrule Warriors’ Naginata in Cadence of Hyrule, there’s a chance they will try to make it canon. Because the reception on Impa in HW was great, and she’s easily one of the more important key characters outside of the Triforce trio and Cia / Lana.

I just wanna believe, you know. Impa could use the Sheikah Slate abilities of the original BotW, seeing these abilities are all Sheikah in origin. Then again we know next to nothing about BotW2, only that Ganondorf is a zombie.
I agree that Impa would make sense as a choice, although I always see the reason that she appears in a variety of ages as the main reason against her. The other thing I’d be concerned about is that they’d just make her a sheik echo. I don’t agree with the changing appearance reason going against her because as you say they managed to choose one for Hyrule Warriors so there’s no reason they couldn’t do the same in Smash.

I like your comment that Ganondorf is a zombie in Botw 2. I did wonder myself if he’s become like a Redead lol
 
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Dalek_Kolt

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One of my biggest fears about Zombiedorf is that Ganondorf will use that design for Smash 6...but STILL cling onto the Falcondorf moveset.
 

Darklink46

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One of my biggest fears about Zombiedorf is that Ganondorf will use that design for Smash 6...but STILL cling onto the Falcondorf moveset.
Yeah I totally get that. They could always go with his design from Hyrule Warriors, as from what I heard and read, that was very well received.

Having said that, I do like how there’s a character design representing the most revered games in the franchise so far, I.e. Ganondorf (OoT), Zelda (ALttP/ALBW) and Link (Botw)
 

PhantomShab

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One of my biggest fears about Zombiedorf is that Ganondorf will use that design for Smash 6...but STILL cling onto the Falcondorf moveset.
It's going to happen and people are going to defend it. Best abandon all hope right now.
 

UserKev

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I'm a huge advocator for Ghirahim, so much personality and aesthetic. Skull Kid is the least exciting due my fears that he could be made too gimmicky. He's still my next want. I want Wind Waker Ganondorf, I believe he was considered, child Ganondorf and old Impa are my pipe dream Zelda newcomer.
 

fogbadge

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It's going to happen and people are going to defend it. Best abandon all hope right now.
maybe break a little more gently

I'm a huge advocator for Ghirahim, so much personality and aesthetic. Skull Kid is the least exciting due my fears that he could be made too gimmicky. He's still my next want. I want Wind Waker Ganondorf, I believe he was considered, child Ganondorf and old Impa are my pipe dream Zelda newcomer.
child ganondorf?
 

Dalek_Kolt

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I'm a weirdo who only wants Moblin Ganon to be the only other iteration of the character to be in Smash.
I used to want Wind Waker Ganondorf, but my interest in him only extended as far as an alternate to Falcondorf. Unless they bring that particular incarnation back in another Toon game, I'd rather have A Link to the Past/Oracle/A Link Between Worlds Ganon.
 

Darklink46

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I finally caved and bought SSBU this week. I was quite surprised to learn that Zelda doesn’t even have a Hilda alt (or at least not that I could see). I would say it should be treated like the Peach/Daisy scenario but to be honest, I don’t think we need yet another echo to represent the series, especially when there is a rich diversity of unique characters to pick from.
 

fogbadge

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I finally caved and bought SSBU this week. I was quite surprised to learn that Zelda doesn’t even have a Hilda alt (or at least not that I could see). I would say it should be treated like the Peach/Daisy scenario but to be honest, I don’t think we need yet another echo to represent the series, especially when there is a rich diversity of unique characters to pick from.
zelda certainly has a lot of potential echoes i think, hilda, twili midna, nyaru (oracle) din (oracle) farore (oracle) styla, perhaps even marin
 

Darklink46

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zelda certainly has a lot of potential echoes i think, hilda, twili midna, nyaru (oracle) din (oracle) farore (oracle) styla, perhaps even marin
Yeah, that makes sense. I just feel the series deserves more than echoes at this point. Considering we already have 3.
 

Diddy Kong

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We don’t have 3 Echoes for Zelda, not in the slightest. Ganondorf has been way more than a Echo ever since Melee even, he doesn’t play like Falcon at all. Young Link and Toon Link aren’t Echoes either, even if they are somewhat similar to each other.
 

fogbadge

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We don’t have 3 Echoes for Zelda, not in the slightest. Ganondorf has been way more than a Echo ever since Melee even, he doesn’t play like Falcon at all. Young Link and Toon Link aren’t Echoes either, even if they are somewhat similar to each other.
and yet theyre just not unique enough for some people
 

Dalek_Kolt

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Dumb question, how much does Japan care about Majora's Mask?

Smash is one thing, but when Hyrule Warriors first came out, they put in Young Link and Tingle, but left Skull Kid out of the initial DLC roster.
 

CodakTheWarrior

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Dumb question, how much does Japan care about Majora's Mask?

Smash is one thing, but when Hyrule Warriors first came out, they put in Young Link and Tingle, but left Skull Kid out of the initial DLC roster.
That’s a really good question that I wish I had the answer too, but honestly it’s still mystifying to me that Skull Kid was initially left out. Then again though, other super popular characters were left out of hurtle warriors too, like Groose, so it’s not like it’s a skull kid-exclusive thing
 

Darklink46

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We don’t have 3 Echoes for Zelda, not in the slightest. Ganondorf has been way more than a Echo ever since Melee even, he doesn’t play like Falcon at all. Young Link and Toon Link aren’t Echoes either, even if they are somewhat similar to each other.
I’ll have to respectfully disagree. Whenever I played with Ganondorf in brawl or even WiiU/3DS, it was always pretty clear to me that he still drew heavily from Captain Falcon. A character that went from echo status to a more original level was Roy (seemed like a lot of work went into adjusting him), whereas that effort doesn’t seem to be apparent with Ganondorf’s tweaks. In my opinion, adding purple magic to his attacks doesn’t instantly mean he’s a new character and not an echo. It’s like Wheatley says in Portal 2: no this test is completely new, that sign that says Wheatley Laboratories wasn’t there originally so that makes it brand new. (Sorry, got a bit off topic). Even his new new sword attacks I’ve seen several people compare those to Ike’s. Whether they’re right or not, I cannot yet judge as I haven’t unlocked Ganondorf yet. I would also endeavour to point out that if the developers were completely of the mind that Ganondorf isn’t an echo, they wouldn’t have bothered changing anything about him this time around. Obviously, they may have accepted that the fans who coined the term Falcondorf may have had a point.

I think it comes down to what you think an “echo” really should be classified as. If Lucina is a Marth echo yet her sword has different factors relating to damage, to me that’s the same as Young Link and Toon Link. They should be classified as echos (in my opinion) echos because they have slight different arrows, bombs and perhaps Toon Link’s fast down air, possibly some slight speed tweaks as well. However, it’s not like Toon Link uses a deku leaf and Young Link his slingshot and masks perhaps. There are just way too similarities to say they’re completely different characters to me. I mean, I’ve seen someone define an echo as “a fighter who shares their moveset with the original base character with some slight technical alterations”. If that definition wouldn’t cover Young Link and Toon Link, I don’t know what characters it would. I mean I thought Dark Pit has some different moves to Pit doesn’t he? Yet he’s still an echo... I get that Young Link and Toon Link now have different dash attacks to BotW Link, but that was still based on Link’s move originally, it doesn’t make them unique.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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I’ll have to respectfully disagree. Whenever I played with Ganondorf in brawl or even WiiU/3DS, it was always pretty clear to me that he still drew heavily from Captain Falcon. A character that went from echo status to a more original level was Roy (seemed like a lot of work went into adjusting him), whereas that effort doesn’t seem to be apparent with Ganondorf’s tweaks. In my opinion, adding purple magic to his attacks doesn’t instantly mean he’s a new character and not an echo. It’s like Wheatley says in Portal 2: no this test is completely new, that sign that says Wheatley Laboratories wasn’t there originally so that makes it brand new. (Sorry, got a bit off topic). Even his new new sword attacks I’ve seen several people compare those to Ike’s. Whether they’re right or not, I cannot yet judge as I haven’t unlocked Ganondorf yet. I would also endeavour to point out that if the developers were completely of the mind that Ganondorf isn’t an echo, they wouldn’t have bothered changing anything about him this time around. Obviously, they may have accepted that the fans who coined the term Falcondorf may have had a point.

I think it comes down to what you think an “echo” really should be classified as. If Lucina is a Marth echo yet her sword has different factors relating to damage, to me that’s the same as Young Link and Toon Link. They should be classified as echos (in my opinion) echos because they have slight different arrows, bombs and perhaps Toon Link’s fast down air, possibly some slight speed tweaks as well. However, it’s not like Toon Link uses a deku leaf and Young Link his slingshot and masks perhaps. There are just way too similarities to say they’re completely different characters to me. I mean, I’ve seen someone define an echo as “a fighter who shares their moveset with the original base character with some slight technical alterations”. If that definition wouldn’t cover Young Link and Toon Link, I don’t know what characters it would. I mean I thought Dark Pit has some different moves to Pit doesn’t he? Yet he’s still an echo... I get that Young Link and Toon Link now have different dash attacks to BotW Link, but that was still based on Link’s move originally, it doesn’t make them unique.
The thing with echos is that they're based off incredibly arbitrary rules that don't make sense to the player. Toon Link and Young Link SHOULD be considered echos, but theyre not.

To be an echo, a character has to fit the following criteria:
-Same exact skeleton
-Movesets that are pretty much the same from a casual player's perspective.

While YL and TL fit the second one, they don't fit the first one. Lucas and Ness have the same exact skeleton, but their movesets are very different. Echo fighters are pretty much just alternate skins with slight differences. The whole "echo fighter" thing is kinda dumb if you ask me. It'd make a lot more sense if they just made it apply to all clones (i.e. making YL/TL echos, making Roy and Chrom both echos of Marth, Pikachu/Pichu, etc.) but Sakurai be Sakurai.
 

Diddy Kong

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No the definition of an Echo Fighter is the character having the exact same skeleton, or with little tweaks (Daisy is shorter than Peach for example) but the overall move set a and frame data is exactly the same. As well as their overall weight, speed, knock back and damage properties.. just about everything. Chrom and Ken stand out in this, but are still hugely the same as their counterparts in many ways. Lucina and Marth, and Chrom and Roy play nothing alike , but that’s mainly clever work with their overall sword hit boxes.

Ganondorf has been slower, larger and stronger than C.Falcon since Melee, his entrance in Smash. He also still had a different Jab, F Air and U Tilt. Which is quite something for a Melee styled clone. Ganondorf started out as a clone, then Brawl made him a semi-clone till Ultimate to which many of us complained wasn’t quite fitting for him. But still, he hadn’t a different Jab, F Tilt, U Smash, F Air, Side B and they made him even stronger and slower to differentiate him more from C.Falcon. The sword Smash attacks from Ultimate are taken from Ike and Cloud yes, but still aren’t moves ever included in C.Falcon’s moveset.. so no, Ganondorf is in no way an Echo Fighter.

Young Link and Toon Link are quite similar but their overall physics are way different. Young Link is way faster overall, and Toon Link is very floaty. They still have drastically different aerial moves and movement, their projectiles work differently, and Toon Link has a overall better time finishing enemies off. This alone is quite a contrast to BotW Link with his remote bombs and heavier and stronger play style.

Zelda has no Echo Fighters, and could honestly use one if we can’t get nothing else. Impa would work well as a Sheik Echo, or semi-clone.
 

Darklink46

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The thing with echos is that they're based off incredibly arbitrary rules that don't make sense to the player. Toon Link and Young Link SHOULD be considered echos, but theyre not.

To be an echo, a character has to fit the following criteria:
-Same exact skeleton
-Movesets that are pretty much the same from a casual player's perspective.

While YL and TL fit the second one, they don't fit the first one. Lucas and Ness have the same exact skeleton, but their movesets are very different. Echo fighters are pretty much just alternate skins with slight differences. The whole "echo fighter" thing is kinda dumb if you ask me. It'd make a lot more sense if they just made it apply to all clones (i.e. making YL/TL echos, making Roy and Chrom both echos of Marth, Pikachu/Pichu, etc.) but Sakurai be Sakurai.
I guess it’s the slight alteration to the “rules” that define an echo, clone or insert name here that confuses me. While the Zelda characters may not be considered echos by the definitions, I still consider them clones by melee/brawl standards. TL was still considered by many to be a Link clone in brawl/Wii U so if anything it’s the arbitrary rule adjustment that you mentioned that has changed this mindset, which I don’t necessarily agree with. It makes it seem that some series have more unique fighters than they really have, if you ask me. This especially rings true for the Zelda series, as nothing has really changed regarding the characters and their move sets although I’m glad they worked a little more on Ganondorf this time around (although there is definitely still yet more room for improvement), just the renaming and new rules regarding clones to echos.

I mean, as another example looking at the idea of echos (again in my opinion) is Dark Samus. I actually felt her assist trophy from Wii U/3DS was much better designed with different moves compared to regular Samus. Most of the skills she uses in Metroid Prime 2 & 3 are nothing like Samus’ abilities. Dark Samus could have been so much more but she got similar treatment to YL/TL in the melee/brawl days.

“Zelda has no Echo Fighters, and could honestly use one if we can’t get nothing else. Impa would work well as a Sheik Echo, or semi-clone.”

I still argue that this is the last thing the Zelda series needs in my opinion, as it’s had hand-me down movesets on “new” characters for far too long now. This is made especially more disheartening when you consider characters who could have interestingly unique movesets like Midna or Skull Kid. Hyrule Warriors has already proved that to be a case in point.
 

YoshiandToad

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Unpopular opinion but I'd rather Impa was a clone of Cloud than of Sheik.
Gimme that sweet giant blade with water effects if her inclusion options are clone/echo or nothing.

In an ideal world though she'd wield her naginata and be totally unique. Gotta agree we need more uniqueness in Zelda's cast.
 

Darklink46

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In an ideal world though she'd wield her naginata and be totally unique. Gotta agree we need more uniqueness in Zelda's cast.
Yeah, I think this is all I’m really trying to say. It just seems that whenever there’s hope for a new unique fighter from the Zelda franchise, they often get swept aside. I’m not saying every potential character should be included, by any means but when some assist trophies seem weakly based on their in game appearances, it makes me wonder why more couldn’t be done with them. How we ended up with Skull Kid not being tied to the Majora’s Mask moon, I’ll never understand.

I said to some friends a while back, there are fans of other franchises like Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Metroid who can turn round and say: I got a new character! Then Zelda fans are left like Charlie Brown saying: All I got was a rock. XD. I get we got Young Link back but other series got old reps back plus more on top. I know not all series have to be treated equal, but that’s just how it feels to me.
 
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MAtgSy

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Unpopular opinion but I'd rather Impa was a clone of Cloud than of Sheik.
Gimme that sweet giant blade with water effects if her inclusion options are clone/echo or nothing.

In an ideal world though she'd wield her naginata and be totally unique. Gotta agree we need more uniqueness in Zelda's cast.
Giant's Blade is such an odd weapon for her TBH. I'm kinda hoping HW2 if its ever a thing swaps some of the weapons around. (Giant's Blade to a goron, :ultzelda:'s Wind Baton to :ulttoonlink:, Lana's Deku Spear to Saria, etc.)
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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No the definition of an Echo Fighter is the character having the exact same skeleton, or with little tweaks (Daisy is shorter than Peach for example) but the overall move set a and frame data is exactly the same. As well as their overall weight, speed, knock back and damage properties.. just about everything. Chrom and Ken stand out in this, but are still hugely the same as their counterparts in many ways. Lucina and Marth, and Chrom and Roy play nothing alike , but that’s mainly clever work with their overall sword hit boxes.

Ganondorf has been slower, larger and stronger than C.Falcon since Melee, his entrance in Smash. He also still had a different Jab, F Air and U Tilt. Which is quite something for a Melee styled clone. Ganondorf started out as a clone, then Brawl made him a semi-clone till Ultimate to which many of us complained wasn’t quite fitting for him. But still, he hadn’t a different Jab, F Tilt, U Smash, F Air, Side B and they made him even stronger and slower to differentiate him more from C.Falcon. The sword Smash attacks from Ultimate are taken from Ike and Cloud yes, but still aren’t moves ever included in C.Falcon’s moveset.. so no, Ganondorf is in no way an Echo Fighter.

Young Link and Toon Link are quite similar but their overall physics are way different. Young Link is way faster overall, and Toon Link is very floaty. They still have drastically different aerial moves and movement, their projectiles work differently, and Toon Link has a overall better time finishing enemies off. This alone is quite a contrast to BotW Link with his remote bombs and heavier and stronger play style.

Zelda has no Echo Fighters, and could honestly use one if we can’t get nothing else. Impa would work well as a Sheik Echo, or semi-clone.
Adjusting speed and frame data really isn't something you can consider a factor, it's 100% the same skeleton thing. See: Ken. Doctor Mario isn't an echo of Mario even though he definitely should be, but it's exclusively because his skeleton is just slightly different. It has to do with the Cape/Doctor Sheet and the lack of FLUDD, mostly. It's really dumb.
 

fogbadge

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Giant's Blade is such an odd weapon for her TBH. I'm kinda hoping HW2 if its ever a thing swaps some of the weapons around. (Giant's Blade to a goron, :ultzelda:'s Wind Baton to :ulttoonlink:, Lana's Deku Spear to Saria, etc.)
well to be fair the baton was in the game before toon link and it does kind of make sense for it to wielded by someone in the royal family
 

pupNapoleon

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Here's to the races!

Goron!
Zora!
Deku!
Rito!
 

pupNapoleon

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We already have a Sheikah and a Gerudo- but truly I do think the best way to show the breadth of Hyrule is to show the variation of all the people.
 

ZealousGamer

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Question: Who is your favorite representative of each race?

Hylian: Link
Goron: Darunia
Zora: Princess Ruto
Rito: Teba
Deku: Deku Princess
Kokiri: Saria
Korok: N/A (Not a fan)
Sheikah: Paya
Twili: Midna
Gerudo: Ganondorf (Evil) Riju (Good)
Minish: N/A (Never played)
Fairy: Navi
 

YoshiandToad

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We already have a Sheikah and a Gerudo- but truly I do think the best way to show the breadth of Hyrule is to show the variation of all the people.
Sheik isn't really a Sheikah though. Sheik is a Hylian in disguise. That's like saying you caught a Moltres because technically your Ditto can turn into it.

Arguably Ganondorf kinda sucks as a Gerudo rep since it's a race of warrior women and he's the only man. He's basically a reverse Smurfette.

I do however agree that the races should get represented. Young Link missed out on a trick.

Question: Who is your favorite representative of each race?

Hylian: Link
Goron: Darunia
Zora: Princess Ruto
Rito: Teba
Deku: Deku Princess
Kokiri: Saria
Korok: N/A (Not a fan)
Sheikah: Paya
Twili: Midna
Gerudo: Ganondorf (Evil) Riju (Good)
Minish: N/A (Never played)
Fairy: Navi
Hylian: Zelda/Tingle(if he counts)
Goron: Yunobo
Zora: Prince Sidon
Rito: Medli
Deku: Yves
Kokiri: Saria
Korok: Hetsu
Sheikah: Impa although Paya's also pretty fun.
Twili: Midna
Gerudo: Urbosa
Minish: Vaati
Fairy: ...Tingle?
 
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Freduardo

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I like Vaati and will always be biased.

That said, what if Sakurai pulls a Pirahna Plant and realize more zelda fans know bokoblins and octoroks than know who even Impa is?

Which henchman of evil would you support? Yiga clan has a mii. I think bokoblins have a great design, Octoroks are probably the most pirahna plant like. And maybe you’re just a terrible human being and want to play as a Like Like to make their friends hate them.
 

TheCJBrine

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Question: Who is your favorite representative of each race?

Hylian: Link
Goron: Darunia
Zora: Princess Ruto
Rito: Teba
Deku: Deku Princess
Kokiri: Saria
Korok: N/A (Not a fan)
Sheikah: Paya
Twili: Midna
Gerudo: Ganondorf (Evil) Riju (Good)
Minish: N/A (Never played)
Fairy: Navi
Hylian: Link, Zelda, Malon...
Goron: Darunia
Rito: Medli
Deku: The princess or the butler, idk.
Kokiri: Saria
Korok: idk
Sheikah: idk
Twili: Midna
Gerudo: Ganondorf
Minish: idk
Fairy: Tatl
Skull Kid: Skull Kid
 
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Iridium

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I'm surprised I've never showed up here even once. But I still support the character ideas I found, and I would love to be added to the list. I even made my own thread for Dark Link a few months ago, if anyone wants to consider my take on it.

In conclusion, Zelda could really use more rep, and it's strange how we haven't had a new one since Brawl. Hopefully that changes sometime.

I like Vaati and will always be biased.

That said, what if Sakurai pulls a Pirahna Plant and realize more zelda fans know bokoblins and octoroks than know who even Impa is?

Which henchman of evil would you support? Yiga clan has a mii. I think bokoblins have a great design, Octoroks are probably the most pirahna plant like. And maybe you’re just a terrible human being and want to play as a Like Like to make their friends hate them.
I'd laugh if Sakurai ever pulled a Falcondorf and made Deku Baba mostly similar to Piranha Plant. But Octoroks are still among the most prevalent enemies in LoZ overall, like Piranha Plant is for Mario, so I can see that happening if henchman rep were considered.
 

Darklink46

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Yeah, the idea of representing the individual races of the series I’ve been floating around with some friends for a while.

As bowser jr can have koopaling alts, I don’t see why we couldn’t get say a Goron rep, with a Darunia/Darmani/Darbus (the TP one I think, haven’t played TP in a while XD) and Daruk alts. The other few skins could be generic Goron skins from different games in the series, so OoT, TP, SS and BotW.

I honestly think the same could easily apply to Zoras, Rito (although that may be a stretch as they haven’t seen as many different appearances in the series so far) and perhaps a female Gerudo with Nabooru, the leader of the MM Gerudo, Riju and Urbosa.

I’m definitely not saying we need one from each of the main races put into Smash immediately. They could always stagger them out over future titles or something.

Personally I think the one I’d really want from the list of races would be the Zora. They’ve been probably my favourite race in the series (maybe just because the Zora tunic in OoT and TP was blue XD). I’d definitely go for a Zora with Ruto/Lulu/Ralis/Mipha and possibly Sidon alts!

That being said, I still think we’re owed Midna and Skull Kid in one go. Can imagine a trailer of Link fighting Ganondorf, only for Skull Kid to drop in with the glowing eyes of the Majora’s Mask from behind the battle: “Skull Kid makes Impish Mischief!” Have a short bit of Link clashing with Skull Kid. Skull Kid then starts his trademark scream from MM as if he’s summoning the moon, only for him to be teleported away by Twilight magic. Link looks on, confused. Again in a dark background, you see one eye glowing and hear Midna’s laugh from TP. She joins the fray with Link vs Ganondorf and Skull Kid: “Midna Shadows the Competition!”

I think that if Midna and Skull Kid became characters, they could add in Zant and Fi as assist trophies. They are not nearly as popular as the other two but they could make for interesting designs: Zant could use his spin attack around the stage and Fi could dance and sing to some SS melodies as she does in game. Perhaps she could heal you if you can keep up with dancing and jumping around.
 
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