General ICs Q&A Thread

[Sieguest]

Scrooge? Like selfish? I don't get it lol

Using Tactics to gain victory, such as racking up some damage on you, and then stalling you out the rest of the match. For, MK, he'll just start flying under the stage and whatnot...

Anything to avoid having to fight you, while legally beating you =/

 

[00-Zero]

Well that's really gay. I usually try to just hang out on the first stock, dodging, blocking and punishing until I get a grab. Of course I'm throwing some attacks in to hold my own, but they usually slip up before they get a chance to do all that, leaving me a stock ahead with them having to approach. That's only really with people that can time me out. Anyone else, I'm not so grab reliant because my desyncs are godly

 

[theunabletable]

I'm pretty sure scrooging only refers to gliding under the stage over and over again.

Well that's really gay. I usually try to just hang out on the first stock, dodging, blocking and punishing until I get a grab. Of course I'm throwing some attacks in to hold my own, but they usually slip up before they get a chance to do all that, leaving me a stock ahead with them having to approach.

Exactly. Which is why I scrooge often against ICs; because I'm likely to make one mistake and die.

 

[toobusytocare]

back to the chaingrabs...

i only bthrow>dthrow every character lol

 

[00-Zero]

Do you buffer the dthrow?

 

[J4pu]

Well that's really gay. I usually try to just hang out on the first stock, dodging, blocking and punishing until I get a grab. Of course I'm throwing some attacks in to hold my own, but they usually slip up before they get a chance to do all that, leaving me a stock ahead with them having to approach. That's only really with people that can time me out. Anyone else, I'm not so grab reliant because my desyncs are godly

you have me intrigued, I must have vids now.
I hope you can live up to your own hype.

 

[00-Zero]

I'll totally get you some asap. Though no one to play except my little brother until I get back to Sac. The next tourney I'm going to isn't until the 13th, though I'm considering going to one on the 30th, tomorrow, so I'll see if I can't get some videos up for you

 

[theunabletable]

Ok, guys, I think I may have an extra use for a situational desync (I'm not sure if people have discovered this way or not (the Squall desync description in the thread seemed a little different than what this is), but I assume not because I don't ever see people using it and it seems like it could be really useful).

Every time you Squall, if you input an attack (anything at all) if you input it at the right time (the timing seems really easy, but I can't explain it. It has a visual cue for sure considering I can do it consistently after 30 seconds of practice after accidently doing it in a random CPU battle, I just can't explain the visual cue lol), only Nana will do the attack (actually sometimes just Popo by himself seems to do the attack, but I'm not sure what the timing for that is... just seems to randomly happen instead of just Nana by herself doing it lol).

I can't explain the timing, but after 30 seconds of practicing I can do it consistently.

Free desync EVERY time you Squall (including after a recovery for something super duper situational).

You can do it with smashes too.

It just seems like it could be a good mixup.

And a desync off of nearly every recovery could be pretty useful, I think (and it's not nearly as laggy as, say, Up-Bing to the ledge then having Nana on the ledge for like 3 seconds so you can desync, this is just a desync added on to every single Squall recovery).

Idk why I don't see people doing this (unless no one knows about it). A projectile/hitbox wall appearing (+desynced for extra stuff) after most normal recoveries seems really useful.

 

[Smoom77]

Scrooge=Meta gliding under the stage. Lol.

I did a chart on it once.

Buffered-bthrows are technically the best way to chaingrab. It's way above the other too.
btw, the chart doesn't have stale moves. Forgot about it.

 

[00-Zero]

Ok, guys, I think I may have an extra use for a situational desync (I'm not sure if people have discovered this way or not (the Squall desync description in the thread seemed a little different than what this is), but I assume not because I don't ever see people using it and it seems like it could be really useful).

Every time you Squall, if you input an attack (anything at all) if you input it at the right time (the timing seems really easy, but I can't explain it. It has a visual cue for sure considering I can do it consistently after 30 seconds of practice after accidently doing it in a random CPU battle, I just can't explain the visual cue lol), only Nana will do the attack (actually sometimes just Popo by himself seems to do the attack, but I'm not sure what the timing for that is... just seems to randomly happen instead of just Nana by herself doing it lol).

I can't explain the timing, but after 30 seconds of practicing I can do it consistently.

Free desync EVERY time you Squall (including after a recovery for something super duper situational).

You can do it with smashes too.

It just seems like it could be a good mixup.

And a desync off of nearly every recovery could be pretty useful, I think (and it's not nearly as laggy as, say, Up-Bing to the ledge then having Nana on the ledge for like 3 seconds so you can desync, this is just a desync added on to every single Squall recovery).

Idk why I don't see people doing this (unless no one knows about it). A projectile/hitbox wall appearing (+desynced for extra stuff) after most normal recoveries seems really useful.

I'm pretty sure this is known. Me being one to work desyncing in off of nearly anything, I always go for the desync after a squall. I'm pretty sure you can also shield with popo at the end of it and have nana do something else. People get more confused by nana charge deception imo. I get kills with it like crazy.

Scrooge=Meta gliding under the stage. Lol.

I did a chart on it once.

Buffered-bthrows are technically the best way to chaingrab. It's way above the other too.
btw, the chart doesn't have stale moves. Forgot about it.

That's cool lol. But buffered bthrow? I can't ever seem to get those ones off, so I buffer a throw after the bthrow. Do you really buffer the bthrow though? That's insane if you do and do it consistently.

 

[toobusytocare]

Do you buffer the dthrow?

indeed i do

its hard on heavies though so sometimes i dont vs them :\


im pretty sure that the best way to practice buffering throws is to just CG as fast as you can on a platform, and if you dont fall through then you're buffering it


EDIT: LOL i also just found the timing for the squall desync just yesterday XD
you kinda put in a move around the same time you'd want to buffer something

 

[rchau]

sorry if im sounding like a noob. This was the only formal link i could find on on buffering (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167109) and I've seen Chibi's buffering vids.

Can we get into a small discussion of how you guys time it, or what's easier for you guys? (I recognized the previous post btw Jc4pu so plz don't flame me for asking how to do something..)

Cuz i basically have bthrow to dthrow down on light/med chars, and can bthrow bthrow alternate but am unsure of exactly HOW fast i should be doing it. Should i be practicing in a slower time mode, or is the only way to really get it is to do it in 1x speed? And list the command inputs and commentary on how fast.

thx

 

[Smoom77]

That's cool lol. But buffered bthrow? I can't ever seem to get those ones off, so I buffer a throw after the bthrow. Do you really buffer the bthrow though? That's insane if you do and do it consistently.

It's soooooo hard, I don't know even if it's possible. People tell me it is, but I can barely do it.

 

[Sieguest]

It's soooooo hard, I don't know even if it's possible. People tell me it is, but I can barely do it.

It is possible, I've done it before, (on Mario :x) but I always start fumbling around 60%-70% >__>.

 

[Smoom77]

It's just so fast; how do you know if you buffered it or not? Lol.

 

[Sieguest]

I only know it's buffered when as soon as Popo regrabs he goes straight into bthrow, I don't even here the grab sound x.x. Eventhough, I can only get the Nana regrab from a buffered bthrow if I make Nana dthrow to Popo. o.o

 

[Zatchiel]

Ok, this thread is good. I have a problem...

I try 2 chain forward throw 2 forward grab, when the chain is about at 220% i try 2 go for a forward throw 2 up smash kill....But they go up and over the smash attack...

Any suggestions? or should i play like tournament me?(Chaning then up smash killing at 170)

Any help will be GREATLY Appriciated, Thank you!

 

[Sieguest]

Ok, this thread is good. I have a problem...

I try 2 chain forward throw 2 forward grab, when the chain is about at 220% i try 2 go for a forward throw 2 up smash kill....But they go up and over the smash attack...

Any suggestions? or should i play like tournament me?(Chaning then up smash killing at 170)

Any help will be GREATLY Appriciated, Thank you!

Release the smash before the throw is finished.

 

[Rubberbandman]

If they are at 220%, then you should have been finished.

 

[Zatchiel]

If they are at 220%, then you should have been finished.

Thanks dude, ill try to kill them at 150%

You 2 Guest!

 

[J4pu]

Scrooge=Meta gliding under the stage. Lol.

I did a chart on it once.

Buffered-bthrows are technically the best way to chaingrab. It's way above the other too.
btw, the chart doesn't have stale moves. Forgot about it.

bthrows may be best for dmg vs time but I was referring to dmg vs # of throws to minimize error since we are all human.

sorry if im sounding like a noob. This was the only formal link i could find on on buffering (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167109) and I've seen Chibi's buffering vids.

Can we get into a small discussion of how you guys time it, or what's easier for you guys? (I recognized the previous post btw Jc4pu so plz don't flame me for asking how to do something..)

Cuz i basically have bthrow to dthrow down on light/med chars, and can bthrow bthrow alternate but am unsure of exactly HOW fast i should be doing it. Should i be practicing in a slower time mode, or is the only way to really get it is to do it in 1x speed? And list the command inputs and commentary on how fast.

thx

I believe you're asking about bufferring again.
It's easier to explain buffering using any character other than IC's, pretend you are ganondorf, you jump, you fall, you airdodge before hitting the ground, then you press A to jab, but ganon is currently stuck in his airdodge/landing animation, if this game did not have buffering the result would be that you end up standing on the ground doing nothing after you land. Brawl though, can read your inputs even when you input them before they can actually occur, and then the game does it for you automatically at the earliest possible time (exactly as your current action ends) which would result in Ganon jabbing in the previously mentioned example, this is buffering.
So then because IC's are two characters that respond to your inputs whenever possible, this makes them slightly more difficult to understand, but basically all it is, is the above ganondorf example but replace air-dodge/land with grab, replace jab with throw, and replace ganondorf with Popo or Nana. Oh, and ignore the initial jump part of the example.

Buffering your CG is only helpful if your opponent is mashing out before you do your next throw, it won't increase your regrab accuracy or anything like that.

 

[Rubberbandman]

@J4pu

Buffered F-throw is the most optimal for damage to number of throws, since it does the most damage of all the Ice Climbers throws (8%) while the rest do 6%, this isn't counting staling.

When considering staling, it would be best to down (F-Throw) -> (Any other throw) for the optimal amount of damage; It does a steady 14% per cycle while F-Throws do a staling 16% (for 2 throws) per cycle.

 

[J4pu]

@J4pu

Buffered F-throw is the most optimal for damage to number of throws, since it does the most damage of all the Ice Climbers throws (8%) while the rest do 6%, this isn't counting staling.

When considering staling, it would be best to down (F-Throw) -> (Any other throw) for the optimal amount of damage; It does a steady 14% per cycle while F-Throws do a staling 16% (for 2 throws) per cycle.

In my previous post where I mentioned the most optimal I said alternating Fthrow Bthrow with nana doing the fthrow...
most dmg/throws as well as able to be performed standing in a very small region.

It wasn't a question, it was a statement :/
but thanks for agreeing with me

 

[InfamousLegato]

Hello Ice Climber boards!

I recently decided I wanted to learn the Ice Climbers for their unique play style, grab game, combos, and amount of techs they have.

I've only been playing for a couple days but I've gotten fairly proficient at their non-desynced tactics, approaches, defense and I'm currently practicing their various recovery tactics, DI, and the like but I have to ask just like every other IC player the following questions

What are the easiest, fastest and best desync methods?

Which chain grabs should I practice the most?

How do I control Nana more efficently? I can smash with her if Popo has grabbed my opponent, but do I have to desync to have her do F-air so Popo can follow up with F-Smash?

 

[DZhou]

@J4pu

When considering staling, it would be best to down (F-Throw) -> (Any other throw) for the optimal amount of damage; It does a steady 14% per cycle while F-Throws do a staling 16% (for 2 throws) per cycle.

Wouldn't the other throws still stale? Because i thought Popo and Nana have seperate stale move lists.

 

[Smoom77]

Thanks dude, ill try to kill them at 150%

You 2 Guest!

Even then you shoulda finished them. 150% is like for snake. IMO, kill lights around 100%.

 

[sauc3]

Hello Ice Climber boards!

I recently decided I wanted to learn the Ice Climbers for their unique play style, grab game, combos, and amount of techs they have.

I've only been playing for a couple days but I've gotten fairly proficient at their non-desynced tactics, approaches, defense and I'm currently practicing their various recovery tactics, DI, and the like but I have to ask just like every other IC player the following questions

What are the easiest, fastest and best desync methods?

Which chain grabs should I practice the most?

How do I control Nana more efficently? I can smash with her if Popo has grabbed my opponent, but do I have to desync to have her do F-air so Popo can follow up with F-Smash?

Hello, and welcome to the ic boards, its awesome you decided to pick up ics, they are hella fun, but require a lot of practice, and it can be frustrating at first, but in the end they're worth it.

What are the easiest, fastest and best desync methods?

-dash-dance once, then tap once popo stops, if done correctly, he'll do an iceblock and nana will stand there.

Which chain grabs should I practice the most?

-on the lightweights (mk, kirby, gaw, marth and a few others), popo bthrows, as you're flicking the opposite direction, hit grab and nana will pivot grab, then dthrow with nana and regrab with popo. Simple bthrow -> dthrow

-on heavy weights (dk, snake, rob etc.), either dthrow to dthrow, or dthrow (popo) to fthrow (nana)

-there are other versions (like bthrow to fthrow on lightweigts, or fthrow to fthrow, or even bthrow to bthrow), but the above are the most common.

-technically any throw will work on any character, they both have their ups and downs, the dthrow to dthrow one being you run out of stage, and have to turn it around, where most ics lose their timing, and the bthrow to dthrow disadvantage being nana-***** can trip.

How do I control Nana more efficently? I can smash with her if Popo has grabbed my opponent, but do I have to desync to have her do F-air so Popo can follow up with F-Smash.

-if you're talking about the dthrow to fair, then I just hit down (throw registers, nana crouches), then hit up (popo is still in animation, and nana jumps), then c-stick forward (pop is still in animation and nana fairs), so thats down, then up, then c-stick forward.

-for de-synched blizzards, you simply have to input something when they're desynched, then forget about it once they start doing it, and focus on the other icy and give them a command before the animation finished on the first icy.

-for charging grabs in a throw, cstick in the direction you want to smash, then hold Z, its awkward but worth it.

 

[InfamousLegato]

Hello, and welcome to the ic boards, its awesome you decided to pick up ics, they are hella fun, but require a lot of practice, and it can be frustrating at first, but in the end they're worth it.

What are the easiest, fastest and best desync methods?

-dash-dance once, then tap once popo stops, if done correctly, he'll do an iceblock and nana will stand there.

Which chain grabs should I practice the most?

-on the lightweights (mk, kirby, gaw, marth and a few others), popo bthrows, as you're flicking the opposite direction, hit grab and nana will pivot grab, then dthrow with nana and regrab with popo. Simple bthrow -> dthrow

-on heavy weights (dk, snake, rob etc.), either dthrow to dthrow, or dthrow (popo) to fthrow (nana)

-there are other versions (like bthrow to fthrow on lightweigts, or fthrow to fthrow, or even bthrow to bthrow), but the above are the most common.

-technically any throw will work on any character, they both have their ups and downs, the dthrow to dthrow one being you run out of stage, and have to turn it around, where most ics lose their timing, and the bthrow to dthrow disadvantage being nana-***** can trip.

How do I control Nana more efficently? I can smash with her if Popo has grabbed my opponent, but do I have to desync to have her do F-air so Popo can follow up with F-Smash.

-if you're talking about the dthrow to fair, then I just hit down (throw registers, nana crouches), then hit up (popo is still in animation, and nana jumps), then c-stick forward (pop is still in animation and nana fairs), so thats down, then up, then c-stick forward.

-for de-synched blizzards, you simply have to input something when they're desynched, then forget about it once they start doing it, and focus on the other icy and give them a command before the animation finished on the first icy.

-for charging grabs in a throw, cstick in the direction you want to smash, then hold Z, its awkward but worth it.

I'm having a hard time dash-dancing. I know it's a simple concept but I definitely don't have the timing or the method for doing it down.

Besides the dash dance desync are there any other ones worth learning?

 

[toobusytocare]

dash backwards, dash forwards, hit B

 

[00-Zero]

I'm having a hard time dash-dancing. I know it's a simple concept but I definitely don't have the timing or the method for doing it down.

Besides the dash dance desync are there any other ones worth learning?

Take a look st this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243922

 

[scorekid100]

what do I do when nana has been killed? How would I aproach, rack damage and KO? It seems like whenever nana dies I just use dsmash when they're close to me, and if they're off the edge I bair. Suggestions?

 

[Smoom77]

To tell you the truth, I think I basically do that too. I run away and pivot grab a lot too.

 

[Sieguest]

I start spamming Nairs, Blizzards and IBs whenever Nana dies....
oh wait... I all ready do that when they're both alive.... x.x I must be doing something wrong.... although I do tend to become a bit more defensive whenever Nana is gone... to be honest.

 

[scorekid100]

To tell you the truth, I think I basically do that too. I run away and pivot grab a lot too.

What do you do once you get a grab? If they're at low enough percents I dthrow chaingrab but if they're at high percents I have no idea what to do T_T

I start spamming Nairs, Blizzards and IBs whenever Nana dies....
oh wait... I all ready do that when they're both alive.... x.x I must be doing something wrong.... although I do tend to become a bit more defensive whenever Nana is gone... to be honest.

Yeah I tend to get defensive to. I usually run away spam ib's, if they get close dsmash and...die?

 

[Sieguest]

What do you do once you get a grab? If they're at low enough percents I dthrow chaingrab but if they're at high percents I have no idea what to do T_T

If they're at high percents I usually uthrow them and start using uair x.x

 

[J4pu]

Wouldn't the other throws still stale? Because i thought Popo and Nana have seperate stale move lists.

Nana doesn't stale iirc, popo stales for both
so w/e moves popo used will be stale for nana

 

[Rubberbandman]

I start spamming Nairs, Blizzards and IBs whenever Nana dies....
oh wait... I all ready do that when they're both alive.... x.x I must be doing something wrong.... although I do tend to become a bit more defensive whenever Nana is gone... to be honest.

My DI is so much better with nana gone, its stupid. I go kinda more offensive to make sure damage is substantial for the next stock.

 

[rchau]

hey, thx for the explanation J4pu. I'm really gonna try and work on buffered throws now.

I went to my first tourny last yesterday, and it either consisted of people who (i) people that didn't bother to mash out at all; (ii) people that could mash out as soon as I grabbed them.

Now i understand how good the pros like Kakera and Lain really are. Their grab game is just flawless. I guess I've been learning something new about the ice climbers every time I think I've mastered something. For example, a list of the things ive learned so far in order is:
1. Popo dthrow Nana fair (prolly everyone's first exposure if not a fthrow fthrow chain)
2. Popo bthrow nana dthrow to popo regrab; repeat
3. hobbling fatties (though i don't use it anymore cuz i'm not sure if it works)
4. just recently learned and mastered my bthrow to bthrow alt timing with every char xcept jiggs and yoshi
5. and now i really want to get into the habit or making desynching just an instinct when I'm not near my opponent. It's like i have consciously think about it, and i think that kinda messes me up, cuz competition is already kinda stressful / nerve racking. And ofc I need to start making all my throws buffered.

i guess my question is, for nostalgia, do you guys remember ur first tourny experience with the ICs? howd u do? and did u hav things u knew u wanted to work on right away?

 

[DK SPEED DK]

What is a good second for the ICs other than mk?... im horrible with mk

 

[Sieguest]

What is a good second for the ICs other than mk?... im horrible with mk

Marth
DDD
Kirby?