General ICs Q&A Thread

[Mr. game and watch]

I CG to a select few songs that I can CG to the beat of...
But I haven't done that in a while.

 

[DeLux]

I have a habit of dropping my CGs at 72% or 104%, depending on the character. Without fail

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Youre just gonna say your bad till you're better than lain, aren't you?

 

[Teh Future]

I have a habit of dropping my CGs at 72% or 104%, depending on the character. Without fail (except when im playing David)

seems about right

 

[DeLux]

Then I drop it at 0 against you David lol

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I'm not allowed to have a wii as freshman in the A&M Corps of Cadets.

My friend is in there too!
He's also a freshman, and plays smash so was bummed about that.
John Ward.
Do ya know him??

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Hey i plan on going IC's vs Falco this weekend.. If and/or my zss falls.
More than likely i'll be Cping to FD.

I have the chaingrab down perfectly.
Anything else i should get down?

 

[Mr. game and watch]

With falco?
Desyncs are bad cause of da lasers.

I think uair out-prioritizes his dair.
I have little knowledge of that MU lol.

May wanna practice some sopo.

 

[DeLux]

you can ISSDI every move from falco. Like literally every move is not safe on shield.

Learn to SDI through Jab for the grab.

I've actually been able to LD1 > IB a phantasm and induce RCO lag for a free grab before if I'm at low percents. When he's recovering, you can tilt it. Utilt is the easiest since it has the longest hitbox duration.

Don't get BDACUSed. You know it's coming. Don't fall for it.


If someone knew a way to get out of the CG consistently, post that, because I'm hit or miss with it

 

[Hylian]

If they start chaingrabbing nana just hit them.

If they start chaingrabbing popo you have to react accordingly. If you just spam blizzard nana will blizzard falco out of it. Falco can counteract this by waiting a second as nana runs up to dthrow, that way the lasers interrupt her. If falco waits so he can hit nana with his dthrow as well, then you have time to mash out.

 

[jbandrew]

When they hit nana and popo and nana are seperated is there a way I can kind of control nana? Cuz nana is stupid and runs into everything the opponent does and I wish I could control her at times too lol.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Nope nana just silly:/
your best option is to run to her sometimes.
Your only option is to watch her die at others:/


I like these concrete questions.

 

[B0NK]

When they hit nana and popo and nana are seperated is there a way I can kind of control nana? Cuz nana is stupid and runs into everything the opponent does and I wish I could control her at times too lol.

Yes, but not very much. She will always run in a straight line towards you, and use perfect SDI towards you anytime she gets hit while she's separated.

So for example, helping her get out of MK's up-air x 4 > Tornado you'd want to run to as far to the side of MK as possible.

Using this concept you can make her jump over charge smashes as well. Other things you just have to observe how nana reacts to figure out what she will do.

Like when she is not in tumble state and already used her second jump, she'll b-reverse up-b away from the opponent, you can make her tech when she's about to land in a tumble near you, etc.

 

[jbandrew]

I see. What about when it becomes a boxing match and they get seperated, as shes coming back, can she like attack them? I notice she does sometimes if I just keep pressing A but its never WHEN I tell her to. jst a little after usually.

 

[B0NK]

She'll buffer whatever input she receives (aka what you are holding) as soon as she gets into "sync" range.

Don't quote me on this, cause haven't check the frame, but I believe as long as you press and hold the input as she's within 10 frames from syncing, she'll do that input.

So let's say you are holding down A within 10 frames apart from her syncing while she's running, she'll dash attack as soon as she is in range.

This is really just a theory of mine, that I've observe to work in game. I'm not sure on the frames, but I'm assuming its 10 since that's the buffer window.

So holding an input would be more effective then tapping and mashing it, from my experience.

I'd love for someone else to clarify and/or correct me on this info ^_^

 

[DeLux]

Nope nana just silly:/
your best option is to run to her sometimes.
Your only option is to watch her die at others:/


I like these concrete questions.

...

this is wrong

stop giving out incorrect answers to questions in the Q&A thread please

Bonk hit it on the head more or less. You'll get a feel for getting Nana to jump and things like that as you get more experience with the character.
Don't forget, if you the situation calls for it, you could also belay her out of danger. Especially since most of the moves used to kill nana are laggy, it would minimize (but not eliminate) the punishes for the rogue belay.

She'll buffer whatever input she receives (aka what you are holding) as soon as she gets into "sync" range.

Don't quote me on this, cause haven't check the frame, but I believe as long as you press and hold the input as she's within 10 frames from syncing, she'll do that input.

So let's say you are holding down A within 10 frames apart from her syncing while she's running, she'll dash attack as soon as she is in range.

This is really just a theory of mine, that I've observe to work in game. I'm not sure on the frames, but I'm assuming its 10 since that's the buffer window.

So holding an input would be more effective then tapping and mashing it, from my experience.

I'd love for someone else to clarify and/or correct me on this info ^_^

I'm going to say if I had to guess, it would be that Nana doesn't receive inputs until she's within sync range (25 IGUs) and it would ignore the inputs 10 frames prior via buffer system. I can't confirm that at the moment, but based off past experience, that would be my guess.

If I decide to ever seriously play ICs again, I might look into it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Is there really any point in playing ICs competitively as long as MK is still legal?

 

[DeLux]

Given our stage control on 50% of level, they at least make overwhelmingly powerful secondaries

At best, MK isn't even our worst matchup so I don't get why MK is such a huge problem for you in terms of maining them

 

[FrozenHobo]

what is our worst matchup?

 

[ch33s3]

MK is far and away our worst MU.

 

[DeLux]

When MK is banned and all the Toon Links of the world bomb us to hell and back, you'll be sorry lol

 

[Hylian]

mk is even. Ics beat top mks all the time. Ics hardly ever beat top snakes/diddys/tls.

There isnt a good reason why mk beats ics, if they didnt have cps we would win the matchup.

 

[Vinnie]

mk is even. Ics beat top mks all the time. Ics hardly ever beat top snakes/diddys/tls.

There isnt a good reason why mk beats ics, if they didnt have cps we would win the matchup.

Hylian you're on crackkkkkkkkk lol

and people say I overrate ICs @_@...

 

[DeLux]

To be fair, he also listed Toon "Projectiles are less effective at high levels of play" Link as one of our worst matchups

 

[ch33s3]

ICs still beat TL. Just because one player is better than us at the MU doesn't make the MU against us.

 

[Hylian]

Hylian you're on crackkkkkkkkk lol

and people say I overrate ICs @_@...

Huh? I think ics lose to snake,diddy,lucario,tl,peach and zss which is more than pretty much any other ic player i know of. It just logically makes absolutly no sense that ic mains have farrr better results against top mks than other characters yet people still say mk is our worst matchup.

 

[Vinnie]

Huh? I think ics lose to snake,diddy,lucario,tl,peach and zss which is more than pretty much any other ic player i know of. It just logically makes absolutly no sense that ic mains have farrr better results against top mks than other characters yet people still say mk is our worst matchup

About 80-90% of ICs know the MK MU. About 30-40% of MKs know the ICs matchup. When you don't know the ICs matchup, you lose. That's why some top MKs can lose to ICs.

 

[ch33s3]

Try and beat an MK, even on neutrals, that REALLY knows the MU and lemme know how that goes.

 

[DeLux]

Which MK REALLY knows the matchup?

 

[Hylian]

The mk players know the matchup fine, its absurd to say top players dont know a common matchup. Its just an excuse that no one can prove one way or the other.

 

[Vinnie]

The mk players know the matchup fine, its absurd to say top players dont know a common matchup. Its just an excuse that no one can prove one way or the other.

As far as I know, the only top MKs that have lost to at least 1 IC player have lost to many.

Try and beat an MK, even on neutrals, that REALLY knows the MU and lemme know how that goes.

This happened already.

 

[Hylian]

That being said, why do all the other characters that beat ics know the matchup but not the mk players? By playing a character not named mk does that give you instant ic knowledge?

Its a slippery slope and has no logic behind it.

 

[Vinnie]

That being said, why do all the other characters that beat ics know the matchup but not the mk players? By playing a character not named mk does that give you instant ic knowledge?

Its a slippery slope and has no logic behind it.

Are you implying no top TLs/ZSSes/etc have lost to ICs?

 

[DeLux]

I can't think of an IC that has even come close to beating MJG in tourney

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

No ICs ever beat me in tournament, therefore Pikachu is even or in Pikachu's favor.

You can't keep using 1 person as an excuse for MUs, it simply doesn't work. Otherwise Pikachu loses to...Lucario, Olimar, and Diddy. Diddy would lose to Ike. One player doesn't make a MU bad, and stop using that ****ing logic. Just because you (lux) get impatient and decide to dash in a MU where you literally have to walk and throw projectiles at HIS landing to give him damage doesn't mean it is a bad MU. You complain you lose it and then don't change anything (After this Hylian is gonna say 'but I lose to him too' and I know, I'm just making a point).

 

[Vinnie]

When has a top 5 IC faced MJG in tourney other than Lain?

 

[DeLux]

ESAM: I've radically changed my matchup approach every time we've played based off trades that I've been losing.
It's been getting better, but the matchup is still absolutely horrendous. I actually grabbed him on stock 3 last time we played (twice) but since I'm a baddie, I choked it out.

Your Pikachu logic doesn't hold because you lost to someone at Pound last time I checked and they used ICs and couldn't even CG lol


Vinnie: Lain and Hylian off the top of my head. He beat them back to back when Hylian actually practice and lain actually used ICs more or less fully

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

*sigh* I'm not even gonna bother trying to argue anymore. Such incongruity >_>

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

So...

Question.
I've been ****in' around with diff CG's and generally i use the Bthrow Dthrow.
But i've been ****ing around with Back throwing to nana and then pivot grabbing the Dthrow with Popo.
I had problems with Nana trying to grab instead of shield sliding back to me, but i solved that problem by buffering a jab so she slides back over to me.
Is this a bad throw?

Also, i have the timing for the Popo -> Nana Fthrow because i use audio cues. are there any for the nana - popo one?

And finally, the Dthrow is the only one you can't mash out of right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebvpYtj30Zg

 

[DeLux]

This is a terrible CG

So much tripping lol. You essentially doubled your chances of tripping for no reason :\


Mashing is character dependent