General ICs Q&A Thread

[toobusytocare]

Pm it to me too =D

me too!

yea

 

[Hylian]

It's probably something I showed lain at no koast lololol.

 

[00-Zero]

It's probably the footstool thing.

 

[Smoom77]

Why are we making a big deal? Lol. Upair>footstool> fastfall>grab.

 

[lain]

There's more to the footstool combo, and I've figured out some more character changing **** that will BLOW. MINDZ.

The footstool combo is super difficult because you not only have to hit someone in the right spot with the right velocity, but it's also just not guaranteed. Typically, both climbers footstool, which is the easiest way to do it.

Now, once you jump off of them, you can fast fall and make ONLY popo, or even BOTH climbers fast fall to the ground. The problem is when the people hit the ground. I've had people figure out how to stop the **** by timing their getup attacks when I come right to the ground. There's just gotta be better ways to handle this sort of thing. single climber stall above them? wat

There's been talk of being able to get nana to only do the footstool, so no big deal then popo just either grabs them OUT of the footstool itself, or can iceblock or some **** to make them stand up. HOWEVER, discussing with swordgard at APEX, it is VERY DIFFICULT to make only nana footstool, because you have to buffer the jumping after the hit. This is highly unreliable, and thus isn't viable in tourney.



don't worry, once I finally perfect some of this **** I've been experimenting with, I'll reveal it all to you.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Lain, not only would you have to buffer the jump, but you would have to buffer it twice in order to footstool, which would cause you to jump.

What is really needed is someway to light hit the opponent out of the ground fall, so they have an instant get up. The only moves capable of doing that are Ice Block, Blizzard (When spaced well so it doesn't freeze), and Nair.

 

[DeLux]

If I have some (read: four) different desync derivatives that I discovered recently, would it warrant a new thread or should I just post it in the genreral desync thread. Also, does the DSG (dash shield grab for all you non skypers) and its derivatives also warrant a thread? Just trying to advance the game =]

without internet. from my cell phone.

 

[Sieguest]

Put it in the desync thread. o.o

 

[lain]

new threadddddddd

ALWAYS PUT NEW STUFF IN THREADS IF YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT

 

[l!nk_aut]

but only if it's IMPORTANT!



and in this case, it is.

 

[GimR]

Dash shield grab?

 

[DeLux]

tldr is never dash grab. always shield grab out of dash.

the rest of the thread will discuss the frame advantage theory as well as mixups. I see it as the way to play a more agressive climbers

 

[GimR]

Oh dash canceled shield grab. I thought it may be something else

 

[Rubberbandman]

Our dash canceled grab is twice as good as anyone else's because of the fact we have so much slide in shield, making it about the same distance as our dash grab, but with less lag.

 

[Teh Future]

dash grab OoS is useful in a lot of situations...

obviously you shouldnt be dashing grabbing across FD but there is a window after you start dashing before you can shield :[

theorycraft better

 

[Rubberbandman]

You cancel a run by going in shield, once you get in shield, you can shield grab out of it at frame 1. Not hard to understand. =/

 

[Sieguest]

Methinks Future is talking about the initial dash animation before the climbers start running. You can't shield during that time and it may be during that time that opponents take a shot at you or at least make some other move that would change how things are going.

If that's what he was getting at... x_x

 

[r3d d09]

dash grab OoS is useful in a lot of situations...

obviously you shouldnt be dashing grabbing across FD but there is a window after you start dashing before you can shield :[

theorycraft better

Minecraft>theorycraft.

 

[byron]

I am having problems chain grabbing can anybody give me advice on how to prefect it like lain does?


A vid of me trying to chain grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMOa0WNBSeE

 

[Micklem]

Is it realistic to learn ICs as a secondary character?

 

[B0NK]

Is it realistic to learn ICs as a secondary character?

Yes, I've seen plenty of people do it for problem match-ups such as falco.

 

[Micklem]

As a falco main myself, I'd possibly consider IC mirror matches in order to combat that weakness.. But if they're only my second character would I be likely to get dominated if we're about the same ability in general? I imagine most IC mains don't have much experience Vs other IC users?

(I tend to avoid counterpicking characters which give ME the advantage since they follow by counterpicking in the next match, and we go around in an annoying circle which never works out for me somehow. Sooner or later a pikagay gets involved.)

 

[B0NK]

Well that's a misconception, many IC players know how to play against other IC's. It's just become necessary to learn because so many people will try it. (Gracias Meep, GIMR, and Chu for the ditto practice lol)

It just creates a player vs player environment instead of a MU dependent environment.

But other MU i've seen people pick them up for are for just about any lightweights in general that you may be having trouble with. (Oli, Falco, Fox, Pikachu, Kirby, there are plenty more) All because the general consensus is it's easier to learn lightweight CG.

 

[Micklem]

Ah, well kirby & pikachu are the other 2 bad MUs for falco lol so it seems it's worth learning ICs anyway (if I can lol I'm aware of the learning curve). Also useful if I'm not in the mood for a falco ditto..

Thanks for the info, I couldn't find much on the MU thread so any advice for either of these would be appreciated.

I guess I'll just have to man up and take ICs on as falco until I rock *** with ICs.

Anyway, I seem to have cut across Byron, who's question is now a page back (sorry bout that)

I am having problems chain grabbing can anybody give me advice on how to prefect it like lain does?


A vid of me trying to chain grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMOa0WNBSeE

 

[GimR]

@Byron, hold Z down so Nana's shield comes up and then let go of z to drop the shield. The shield drop animation is faster then Nana's grab animation thus it makes the chain grab quicker.

 

[byron]

I don't understand what u mean. I did the chain grab using nothing but the z button and the joystick. do i grab with Popo hold z till i see the shield than back throw?

 

[toobusytocare]

Ah, well kirby & pikachu are the other 2 bad MUs for falco lol so it seems it's worth learning ICs anyway (if I can lol I'm aware of the learning curve). Also useful if I'm not in the mood for a falco ditto..

Thanks for the info, I couldn't find much on the MU thread so any advice for either of these would be appreciated.

I guess I'll just have to man up and take ICs on as falco until I rock *** with ICs.

Anyway, I seem to have cut across Byron, who's question is now a page back (sorry bout that)

kirby isnt bad for falco <___<;
also falco can beat ICs, especially if it's someones ****ty secondary ICs
just camp and play really, really gay

 

[JOE!]

is there a frame data thread floating around somehwere for these guys?

 

[Sieguest]

is there a frame data thread floating around somehwere for these guys?

Yes there is. This is the thread. (It's just the bread and butter stuff. x.x)

 

[Luxor]

Amazing Ampharos is going to go over ICs again, this time including Nana IIRC. Fear not for frame data.

 

[BadKarma]

I don't understand what u mean. I did the chain grab using nothing but the z button and the joystick. do i grab with Popo hold z till i see the shield than back throw?

After you back throw keep holding down the grab button so nana will shield and slide back to popo.
Other than that practice practice practice.

 

[DeLux]

dash grab OoS is useful in a lot of situations...

obviously you shouldnt be dashing grabbing across FD but there is a window after you start dashing before you can shield :[

theorycraft better

I'll go more into this on Tuesday when I get internet but I disagree with your assessment. The premise that you can't shield out of dash is true, but isn't really applicable to the situation on weighing what is more useful between traditional dash grabbing and DSGing.

tldr The button inputs for the dsg will make you dash grab out of shield so they are equal OoS options.

 

[Evil-Guy]

Are nana and popo related?

 

[BadKarma]

does anybody know how many frames per second there are? Like I understand what they are and its how the game is run but I've never understood how quick they actually are.
Thanks

 

[Rubberbandman]

Are nana and popo related?

No one actually knows their connection. Just use your imagination. :V

does anybody know how many frames per second there are? Like I understand what they are and its how the game is run but I've never understood how quick they actually are.
Thanks

60 frames per second. As in, 1 frame is 1/60th of a second.

 

[GimR]

I don't understand what u mean. I did the chain grab using nothing but the z button and the joystick. do i grab with Popo hold z till i see the shield than back throw?

hold Z after Nana D-throws so Nana shields while popo grabs then instantly release it

 

[Revolutionary1804]

is there frame data for the ice climbers

 

[Rubberbandman]

is there frame data for the ice climbers

Why yes of course, all characters have frame data.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228027

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So I'm bored.

Any vids of Ice Climbers 0-deathing a good Ganon?

 

[Rubberbandman]

No, because no one does Icies vs. Ganon.