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General ICs Q&A Thread

B0NK

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
1,282
i dont really play this character but i felt forced to use him in tournament due to a lack of olimar exp.

any thoughts ? XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMf_b4gsmX8&feature=channel
**** dabuz knows this match-up well lol

Your only real mistakes was the dropped CG in the beginning which would have allowed you to keep the momentum and more importantly the lead, second mistake was letting (well not really "letting obv =P ) dabuz get the lead.

Since dabuz held the lead he was able to bait your up-airs on the platforms, while this can be risky since up-air is such a good and damaging aerial he just did a great job at baiting full hopped up-airs as well as hitting your head threw the platform.

Dabuz also did a great job of controlling the purple pikimin and baiting the desynchs to get the much needed damage in. You caught on to this fact, but unfortunately it was at the end of the second stock where he got the up-smash.

Pretty much dabuz knew the match-up better then you did (or probably many climber players) and made great use of the battlefield platforms. He also got the crucial reads before you did, barely staying a step ahead.

Even though it was 8 mins I enjoyed watching the push and pull in momentum.

That's what I got out of the video.
 

Dabuz

Fraud at Smash
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
6,057
Location
Being the most hated
two notes: first of all, i can't stand the IC MU and have really have little experience in it IRL

secondly, orion could of just up-b me when i was baiting the upairs and easily stopped my strategy cold if he hit
 

Sieguest

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
3,448
Location
San Diego, CA
two notes: first of all, i can't stand the IC MU and have really have little experience in it IRL

secondly, orion could of just up-b me when i was baiting the upairs and easily stopped my strategy cold if he hit
The key words right there. o.o
If he missed, he was gonna be wide open to get lol'd upon.
 

ch33s3

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
1,756
i dont really play this character but i felt forced to use him in tournament due to a lack of olimar exp.

any thoughts ? XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMf_b4gsmX8&feature=channel
You didn't time a single one of his landings on the top platform right, you can get 2 uairs and a nair or dair in on him every time he lands, which should shield poke almost every time, assuming you force him to shield with properly timed landings.

lulz
 

B0NK

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
1,282
two notes: first of all, i can't stand the IC MU and have really have little experience in it IRL
Still looked to me you have more experience then orion in the MU, which isn't hard to believe considering he doesn't really use IC's much.
 

ptv999

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
6
I posted this as a separate thread, but then was told this should belong in this thread so...

I've just recently picked ice climbers, and I'm just practicing chain grabs to get the hang of it. With F throw, I can chain 2 of them (Popo throw, nana grabs, then nana throws popo grabs)
but after the process in the parenthesis, I can't seem to grab with nana again... I'm pretty sure the timing is right. I mean I've done it before up to around 5 or 6 times but it doesn't happen often enough. Does anyone know what the problem may be, and why it always has to stop after the 2nd chain grab? A suggestion as to how to fix it would be nice~
I was thinking maybe it's because nana is behind popo more than she is by default after she throws? But I'd need verification on that.

Also, I have a problem with desynching. I'm only doing one method of desynching (squall->attack usually ice blocks) for the sake of practice. Only nana does the ice block, so I'm presuming they're desynced, but the problem is, nana never does the move I want it to. How do you control the desynced characters separately?
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,303
I posted this as a separate thread, but then was told this should belong in this thread so...

I've just recently picked ice climbers, and I'm just practicing chain grabs to get the hang of it. With F throw, I can chain 2 of them (Popo throw, nana grabs, then nana throws popo grabs)
but after the process in the parenthesis, I can't seem to grab with nana again... I'm pretty sure the timing is right. I mean I've done it before up to around 5 or 6 times but it doesn't happen often enough. Does anyone know what the problem may be, and why it always has to stop after the 2nd chain grab? A suggestion as to how to fix it would be nice~
I was thinking maybe it's because nana is behind popo more than she is by default after she throws? But I'd need verification on that.
Alright, I'll be honest when I say that there are so many possible things that could be going wrong that it really is impossible to diagnose over the internet. However, based on my interpretation, my guess is that you aren't grabbing with Nana simply because you are not attempting to regrab within the grab range.

There are two points of interest that you need to consider. First is obviously the grab range of each respective climber. If you need a visual of the grab range, look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ag4JkYeC5o. Second, you need to consider the point at which F throw releases your cg victim. In order for their to be a successful regrab, you need to overlap the points, possibly with the regrabbing climbers grab range bubble slightly infront of the throwing climbers release area to give you some time. This requires walking the climbers forward a substantial amount during most fthrow cg strings.

1. TL;DR - You are probably not walking forward far enough during the throw animation.

Another possible issue could be that the timing is off. Remember, Popo responds fairly instantaneously, while Nana has a 5-6 frame lag time.

2. TL;DR - Grab earlier with Nana than you would with Popo, Grab later with Popo than you would Nana.


Also, I have a problem with desynching. I'm only doing one method of desynching (squall->attack usually ice blocks) for the sake of practice. Only nana does the ice block, so I'm presuming they're desynced, but the problem is, nana never does the move I want it to. How do you control the desynced characters separately?
Each respective move has a startup time, active frames, and cool down. After those frames cycle through, a character is then free to perform another move. During some point of said frame cycle, it becomes possible to buffer a new move, causing the character to perform that move immediately when the character is done with the last move.

In order to control the climbers in a desynced stage, you need to perform a move with the other climber, while they are performing the move cycle, but prior to the buffer window. If you do it too early (aka when not desynced) they both perform the move. If you do it too late, both climbers will do the move, although one of the moves will come out at the buffer time.


I hope this helps and welcome to the community! If you need more help, PM/VM me rather than clutter the board :laugh:
 

Rubberbandman

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
2,264
Location
知らない
Lux, your tl;drs are not very tl;dr.

The main concept it PRACTICE. Practice doesn't make perfect, but it can get hella close to perfect if you practice enough. So just evaluate what you're doing wrong and try something slightly different.
 

RidingOnTheWind

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3
I'm an Ice Climbers main who would like to become more proficient with Blizzard, as I often find that I beat my opponents with their other special moves and physical moves. What's your secret to using it efficiently and effectively?
 

B0NK

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
1,282
I'm an Ice Climbers main who would like to become more proficient with Blizzard, as I often find that I beat my opponents with their other special moves and physical moves. What's your secret to using it efficiently and effectively?
Hmmm...not using it on moves that can beat it is a good start.

Almost any projectile can go through it, and ones that don't usually blow up. So don't try to set up walls when your opponent can just shoot through them.

Needless to say watch the start up and end lag, desynching helps to cover this.

Spacing as with all moves. In general Blizzard is very much beatable by most characters (lol ganon) and shouldn't be spammed. It's used to lead your opponents movements above you, possibly set up a gimmicky trap, and to put damage on/ space the opponent when in range.

It is quite an effective ledge pressure as well, but not really for gimping just some extra damage.
 

BadKarma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
304
Location
Texas
sooo can somebody explain to me how the respawn desync works. I can never pull it off I always make them both do an attack when coming down. I read the desyncing guide but I don't understand the when the cloud stops moving part.

27. Respawn Desync
As you respawn, just before the respawn cloud stops moving, input a move. Nana will break her synchronisation and fall from the cloud early to do the move. With later timing, Popo will fall and do the move with her, but still desynched (in these cases you can buffer a move out of the first and only Nana will do the second move).

does anybody have any visuals or tricks they use or is it just somthing I need to practice alot till I get it down?
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
1,377
Location
OKC, OK
3DS FC
5301-0744-1149
ice climbers ftw! my nxt tat is an EGGPLANT. ofcourse im strickly a melee player so yea. we need more melee players to come to OK

"WE ARE THE EGGGPLANT MAFIA"
 

BadKarma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
304
Location
Texas
Does anybody have any tips or trick against zero suit samus's armor pieces? The start of the match is ****** me and it seems like I lose my nana everytime I get hit with a piece...=\
any help would be great
 

l!nk_aut

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
416
Location
Austria
I just predict her throwing them and dodge/avoid them as good as possible. And if I got a piece I throw it off the stage immediatly.
 

Rubberbandman

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
2,264
Location
知らない
im not trolling Im telling you if you're doing something wrong you can always figure out on your own. Thats how I learned, thats how I teach.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
hey i was doing a 1v1 on castle seige (the first part) and i was screwing around because my opponent was being a **** and planking w/ MK and i tried to do an f-tilt and i ended up having Popo do an f-tilt and nana do an f-smash which lead into a de-synch. i checked the de-synch thread and i didnt see this so maby its something new?
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
(edit button didnt work for some reason otherwise i would have used that -.-) also no pivots or movement of any sort was involved. it was just nana smashing and popo tilting and the lag of nana's smash allowed for a de-synch.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,303
(edit button didnt work for some reason otherwise i would have used that -.-) also no pivots or movement of any sort was involved. it was just nana smashing and popo tilting and the lag of nana's smash allowed for a de-synch.
Unless you post a video of it of the contrary, I'm willing to bet reasonably that it was a derivative of the SND called "Fsmash trap". If my guess is correct, you most likely did some level of movement.

To support this theory, I ask you examine the logistics of the Ftilt and Non-cstick Fsmash. In order to execute these moves, it requires a movement of the control stick in a direction. The SND require a rocking motion in one direction and a flick similar to an fsmash/ftilt. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume you did have some level of pivoting.
 

BadKarma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
304
Location
Texas
who said **** was free?I asked for tips not handouts *******.
Failtroll?
It's just hard to explain how to do chain grab because everybody does it a little different just practice and try new ways to find clues when to grab and it will come.
 

Rubberbandman

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
2,264
Location
知らない
i never hit my opponent 'cause he was busy being a ***** and hanging on the edge opposite to where i was on the field

FSmash Trap
SND (Hold Late Attack)
Nana charges an FSmash, Popo FTilts
A camping setup that allows Popo many more options while being backed by a fully charged FSmash. Most notably leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4).

Like Lux said.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
all right my bad then. thanks for clearing that up. :D\

What should i do in a mirror Matchup w/ another ice climber user?
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
I'm having troubles with the dthrow cg, for some reason I slip up at a few spots and i'm wondering if its due to throw decay if that even happens or just me mistiming

like, I can usually do popo dthrow-nana and maybe another 1 or 2 times but it feels like the timing changes with percent and how many throws i've done, and its confusing me

if i'm just being ******** and am struggling to time the same thing correctly please tell me lol

Also, i've seen something called a "smash hobble" or some **** where after during the ice block reset one of them charges a smash and the other one grabs immediately after, I cant seem to get this down because my popo sits back behind nana while she's charging the smash (using up+z obv) and i dont think i can move forward to grab in that time, unless i'm doing it wrong or just failing to time something again
 

EverAlert

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
3,433
Location
Australia
NNID
EVAL89
3DS FC
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A few throws shouldn't really affect the dthrow chain at all, unless they already have like 30ish on them. But basically the decay doesn't -really- affect the timing. The main thing that affects the timing is what percent they're on relative to their theortic maximum. Decaying will of course allow you to reach that maximum (although in practice this is usually never the case, when do you ever have a fully ystale dthrow at any given time for these things?), but that's all it does.

As far as timing goes, check out the thread on the solo dthrow chaingrab and look at the percents. As a -very- rough guide, buffer your dashgrabs if their percent is within the bottom half of their theoretic maximum, and buffer dash but manually time a late grab when they're within the top half of their max. The grab doesn't need to be too late, only a few frames should suffice in most cases, the main point here is to not buffer it.


As for the smash hobble, you want to charge the smash with cstick+a, not z, as this will allow you to maneuver Popo and prevent him from being stuck in shield.
 
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