Social General Ice Climber Chat

[choknater]

Not to mention it is entirely the sexiest thing you can do with the ICYs imo

wow ****, i need to do it now that miles reminded me of the word sexy

 

[smakis]

ICs stuff is hilarious, I love doing bthrow > wd nana grab > handoff > blizzobble > wobble > kill, so easy but looks so damn ****

 

[choknater]

so sexual lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

ICs are the original gangrape character

 

[choknater]

so as a responsible catholic i've been looking into pope john paul ii's 'theology of the body' and i've found that maining ic's reflects my true purpose in life to give myself fully in a loving consummation with my future wife

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I THOUGHT YOU WERE JEWISH, ANDRE

what the ****

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

[ scientology ]

 

[voorhese]

FoD needs to be banned because of lag in IC dittos...discuss

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

My suit is soo tight.

 

[choknater]

lol plur are u serious? what in blazes would give u that idea

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I was really suprised when I met Chok for the first time and played PT dittos with him.

***** was mad quiet for a black guy and a spammer.

 

[choknater]

black? hahahahah

yo

my spam is just something that comes out of my body

i just type and naturally posts are posted on smashboards

 

[bahamutz69]

Alright so I've been think about this alot lately but I haven't thought up a good way to phrase it.
While playing other fighters I always try to find ways to use what I learn in my smash game. Recently ive getting alot better from playing online and ive really started understanding 2d fighting mechanics.
Mainly what I'm thinking about are resets, for those who don't play 2d fighters, a reset is (from my understanding) when you purposefully drop a combo to lead into an attack that you think you're opponent might run into, thus resetting the combo

Im not sure how the premise of a reset would work in melee, but I think if any character could do it, it would be ics. Simply because they have solo much unreached potential, which lead to my other point.

I feel like all the cool combos ics can do are essentially useless, like a bthrow>wd back grab just seems unnecessary.

I think ics need a set game plan, positioning to opponent. Because that's what's we can use all our flash **** for.

Dthrow>sh ice block can lead to a regrab on a platform = stock
Sorry for my scattered thinking, it's late and I'm posting from my ipod lol

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

WEll, the thing is, IC already more or less thrives on resets into big damaging combos.

Sure, You can attempt a handoff mid-stage bnut what if Nana does a Uthrow instead of a F, D, or (character dependent) Bthrow?

That why we go for Dthrow Dair "Chaingrabs"(not even guaranteed since you can smash DI and escape. It is essentially a reset since people have to fall for it) in order to get a better position for the huge damaging combo(ledge infinite).

All of the flashy stuff that we do are basically resets and combos for better positioning ourselves to do more damage.

Think about it like this(MvC2 was the first game I thought of when you mentioned 2D fighters and resets since I've been playing alot of that), MAgneto has you locked in the infinite and damage-scaling is taking effect so he pnly does 1 damage per hit. Now, when after he already has you basically locked and taking all this damage for free, he decides to triangle dash under your character and grab you, throwing you and reseting the combo counter. You didn't expect the throw so you don't tech it and you don't mash out of the ice so he basically starts ANOTHER infinite on you, this time doing full damage(ie no damage scaling) and killing you off faster.

I'll continue this post later but I'm headed to work. Hopefully, you guys understood though.

 

[smakis]

I tend to do handoff midstage if I can't start the wobble in time, or dmgdealing combos like fthrow > reverse dashattack > stuff, since once you start reaching the higher levels of play people will know how to get out of dthrow dair

and bthrow > wdback isnt more situational than your proposed dthrow sh iceblock, yours require a platform and isnt even guaranteed to work, both lead into a handoff but with bthrow wd regrab you have a higher success rate.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

It's all useful for different things.

They're all mixups, useful for playing with the opponent's head and getting better positioning.

IC has a lot of potential for mixups. It's just a lot harder to reach that potential than with any other character.

It's ridiculous.

 

[Wobbles]

Something funny I did several times to Darkrain in friendlies recently was d-throw->b-air->regrab->handoff. Instead of using the reverse d-throw d-air, which he was getting good at smash DI'ing and escaping, I just had her hit him towards the edge, regrabbed, and went for a handoff. It got me a couple 15%->death combos. Pretty neat.

 

[choknater]

so sexy LOL

man

reverse stuff is so cool

i should use more of it

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I did this really cool combo the other day, I just grabbed my opponent and kept hitting him until he died.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Lololol. I just read Chok's post about Catholicism. OMGLOL. <3 CHOK

 

[choknater]

ic's too good man. ic's are in fact all about marriage and true love.

 

[bahamutz69]

yea i was thinking more blazblue but ive had my fair share of mvc2
i only mentioned it because resets are so important in blazblue that i thought there had to be some similarity for melee.
but melee doesnt have the same combo damage scaling, in mvc damage gets lower per hit as the combo counter gets higher. in bb there are certain attacks with more or less proration, more proration means less damage, so its essentially the same. not to get into other games, sorry.

melee has percent, so if you combo someone to say 90%, they will still be at roughly 90% no matter what you do, so a reset wouldnt be beneficial. is anyone is catching my drift please let me know. im thinking outloud (online?) to help gather myself lol i just think im onto something here. ics have soo much depth.

another thought...

so ICs thrive on the edge right? i mean we also **** midstage with grab combos but the edge holds potential handoffs. im trying to think of ways that we could keep opponents on the edge out of the middle of the stage, even characters like fox or falcon.

ugh too much in my brain, ill post more later. i literally just had a brain melt

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I never had that thought that ICs **** on the edge. I mean I suppose we can **** someone with a handoff but I feel more safe on a platform or in the center-ish of the level.

I like the MVC2 references though because that is my first fighter

Well Xmen vs Street Fighter was but non of yall have ever heard of that.


ALso @ Chok

Do you drive?

Want to make a band? I play drums.

Legit.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

X-men vs Street fighter.

Ahhhhh

Wolverine was hella broken. Berserker Rage -> 1-button infinites

Gay.

Then again, IC = grab -> 1-button infinites

****

 

[Fly_Amanita]

ICs are generally very weak when they have their back is to the edge; getting back to the center against some characters can be a pain. On the other hand, ICs tend to be very strong when they have the opponent at the edge. This is a really common dichotomy amongst Melee characters.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I am/was one of the best Zangief's in the world at Xmen vs Street Fighter.

 

[choknater]

i am the best ice climbers in super smash brothers 64

 

[PEEF!]

ICs are generally very weak when they have their back is to the edge; getting back to the center against some characters can be a pain. On the other hand, ICs tend to be very strong when they have the opponent at the edge. This is a really common dichotomy amongst Melee characters.

Continue. How do you suggest we get back? What are some good ways to take advantage of the opponent being at the edge?

 

[choknater]

blizzblock wall!

waveshield

dash attack

jumping works sometimes but ic's are not good from above..

 

[john!]

WAVEDASH SHIELD

literally the best thing you can do with the ic's like 60% of the time

i wish i had vids up of my ic's, you would all witness the power of wd to shieldgrab/dsmash guessing games

it's like drephen

 

[choknater]

except against jigglypuff, it doesnt always help.

well, it does

but gotta consider that u either get hit during ur WD, or u get hit by one of her aerials which is safe on shield anyway.

for jiggs, only waveshield for positioning!

 

[john!]

jiggs is dumb and i don't know why ppl think that's a good matchup for ic's -_- but then again i'm no pro

luckily i have other characters to deal with her :D

 

[Kyu Puff]

I like planking the ledge.

Edit: with ICs I mean...

 

[choknater]

i happen to think ic's has the advantage vs puff LOL

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Continue. How do you suggest we get back? What are some good ways to take advantage of the opponent being at the edge?

For getting back on stage:

-Waveshield from the edge -> roll tends to be pretty good. A lot of people will throw out one attack that hits the shield and then do something else that the roll will get around. You might still get hit, but chances are you'll get to the other side of the opponent and at least get away from the edge. The opponent can knock you back to the edge in a variety of ways, but that doesn't happen often, which I think has to do with the position people like to occupy while keeping somebody at the edge. If the opponent isn't in a good position to throw out an attack when you choose to waveland onto the stage, waveland -> something like ftilt/utilt can work.

-Wait on the ledge a bit. Lots of ICs players (myself included) like wavelanding onto the stage as soon as they can, so some people will preemptively throw out an attack or start charging a smash in anticipation of this. If you notice your opponent likes to do this, you can often just wait and then either ledgehop -> fair or waveland on stage into an attack or roll depending on the circumstances.

-Ledgehop -> fair is on the janky side of recovery options from the edge, but it does tend to beat a lot of moves that aren't disjointed if spaced well, so you can sometimes use it against somebody who is throwing out moves when you're on the edge. It's kind of worthless against characters like Marth and Sheik, though.

-Something that I rarely do even though it probably is really good is ledgehop -> stationary waveland right at the edge of the stage. Like the usual waveland onto the stage, it gets you off the edge quickly, but it doesn't force you to slide into your opponent. Since people usually position themselves kind of far from the edge when trying to keep ICs from getting back on in anticipation of the long waveland from the edge, this can be pretty decent against most characters who aren't Marth. In this situation, characters that don't have big, disjointed hitboxes may whiff an attack, which you may be able to punish with something like ftilt or fsmash.

-Also on the jankier side of things is ledehop -> diminished ice block. This is inherently situational since you need to have shot an ice block while off-stage in order to have the diminished ice block. Like ledgehop -> fair, the opponent can easily hit you out of your double jump in anticipation of this, but this works in a few situations that ledgehop -> fair doesn't and it's probably not something that anybody is going anticipate unless you've already done it a few times. It's nice in that it can work against a lot of characters. For example, it's one of the only things aside from the waveshield from the edge that can actually help you get around Marth. You can sometimes combo off of the ice block, but at least for me, it's hard to judge when you can legitimately follow it up with a grab or ftilt.

-Once you're actually on the stage, if there's a platform overhead, jumping onto to it, wavelanding towards the center, and fastfalling off the inner side of the platform and using bair to cover yourself can be good. Even though ICs fall slowly, this still tends to be pretty safe as long as you can get to the other side of the opponent since fastfall -> bair can be hard to punish. If you don't think the fastfall -> bair will work on your opponent for whatever reason, instead of trying to fall from the side of the platform to the main stage, you could double jump and waveland onto the top platform. This generally is harder to punish than fastfall -> bair, but how good it is to be on the top platform varies hugely by stage and match-up, whereas fastfall -> bair always puts you near the center and can put your opponent in a bad position.

There's probably more I'm forgetting, but I think that's a decent summary of returning from the edge with ICs.


I don't have as much to say about ways to take advantage of the opponent being at the edge. It tends to be a strong position since if you ever think it's not worth challenging your opponent at any given time, you can safely retreat while still maintaining a better position than your opponent. It also tends to be good since your opponent doesn't have much space to retreat to, so his options are more limited than they typically are otherwise. Also, it's not usually a big deal if you get hit by your opponent since you don't have much to lose if you get towards the opposite side of the stage, whereas your opponent has a lot to lose if he gets hit off-stage. There are characters that can knock you off-stage from this position, but it's usually not a big deal since ICs are quite gimp-resistant. Be very cautious about moves like Peach and Samus' dsmash, though, as they can knock you pretty far off-stage and can lead to early Nana deaths and legitimately bad positions.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Edit: I'm going to add to this post as I get some more videos up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RjPWHfFFt0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlPJYfJ6NV8

Could I get some critique, pretty please?

 

[choknater]

i feel like i should be critiquing the fox... LOL

but honestly since ur ****** him i dont know what to say. he doesnt kno the matchup or isnt that good of a player in general. to critique a match like that i guess all i can say is... punish harder? hahah.

when ur facing away from fox and u block his wake up attack, always bair

i saw that like once and u didnt punish it, i was like tsk tsk :D

 

[ChivalRuse]

I have some matches against better players. Lol.

Here are the rest vs Big Wenz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFkpapoQVeU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRN6AGqg7fY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZbPx6uLggM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1adrt5XZ5u8

Vs Wenbo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XAp7r9RI-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mkxyui2ZHk

 

[Wenbobular]

Critique me too please if you can haha, I'd rather not post these crappy videos in the Fox thread >_<

Also not warmed up johns ~_~

 

[smakis]

sometimes it feels like you are a bit slow to start x chaingrab once you get a hold of him. Also I don't agree with the blizzarding after you throw him off, good players wont constantly jump into them like that fox did. When he missed a tech from your throws (which happened a lot) you always opted for a dsmash, go for a jabreset, if he techs and you dsmash you most likely can't follow up, while if you jab you can wd out of it > techchase, not to mention that if you do it close to the edge like you did most of the time you get a sure kill (handoffs).

edit: watched the wenbo games

vs falcon: 0:13 and 3:33, jabreset that *****.
overall, jab more, jab is awesome.

@wenbo: shine more, shine better, doubleshine (doubleshine is so gay)