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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
Binx
Smash Master
more detail would be good.
For starters Fox's at lower levels arent always technical enough to avoid being shield grabbed before and sometimes after shines.
So windows vs Fox's shine
If they miss L cancels just grab them before it comes out, if you are decent it should pay off for you more often than it hurts you vs Fox's that aren't consistent.
If the hit L cancels but don't jump super quickly afterwards you can grab as soon as the shine connects on your shield.
And lastly there are fox's that full jump out of shined and try to drill again because the consistently miss short hops, in this case you can upsmash out of shield or short hop uair out of shield and often lead into stuff.
Otherwise vs technical foxes just dont get shined, it's very difficult but there are ways to do it, you can just treat them like Marth and try and stay out of range, sometimes you have to take a risky wavedash or roll to not get trapped the the edge of stages but often times if you aren't predictable it works or you can waveland on a platform to get behind them. Also a lot of fox's will space nairs in a predicable way and you can dash dance grab them. Lastly you can just blindly grab vs some Fox's that like to run and shine you ( throw them quickly though because most Fox's will be pressing buttons quickly to try and do whatever they were going to do if they hadn't been grabbed and will struggle out quickly, as a consequence of this they will often miss techs on quick backthrows or fail to DI properly for dthrow regrabs even at low percents. )
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
How do I stop spamming down smash?
Also, how do I deal with Falco's lasers, and Marth's fair spam?
Also, how do I deal with Falco's lasers, and Marth's fair spam?
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
The least esoteric way of dealing with lasers that actually works is to just shoot ice blocks. There's a multitude of tricks that involve having Popo take a laser and Nana do something; those can also work very well.
Marth has a variety of different ways of using fair that can be a nuisance. For double fairs, if he doesn't start retreating very quickly after hitting you with the first one, you can often wavedash OoS under him and dsmash. If he does start retreating, you can either roll or wavedash backwards. He can catch this if he doesn't start pulling back after the first fair, but then you can do stuff like the dsmash thing I just mentioned.
For the fairs where he just floats and does a descending one, you can either just not challenge the fair or you can try to hit him with dash attack or fsmash before the fair comes out.
In general, blizzards tend to work very well against fair-happy Marths; just try to get out of his face and get into a good position for camping. Marth needs to commit to risky approaches to beat blizzard, and if he starts doing that, you can generally find ways of grabbing him or knocking him upwards out of his approaches.
Marth has a variety of different ways of using fair that can be a nuisance. For double fairs, if he doesn't start retreating very quickly after hitting you with the first one, you can often wavedash OoS under him and dsmash. If he does start retreating, you can either roll or wavedash backwards. He can catch this if he doesn't start pulling back after the first fair, but then you can do stuff like the dsmash thing I just mentioned.
For the fairs where he just floats and does a descending one, you can either just not challenge the fair or you can try to hit him with dash attack or fsmash before the fair comes out.
In general, blizzards tend to work very well against fair-happy Marths; just try to get out of his face and get into a good position for camping. Marth needs to commit to risky approaches to beat blizzard, and if he starts doing that, you can generally find ways of grabbing him or knocking him upwards out of his approaches.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Appreciate the advice. I just get overwhelmed when using ICs. I'm used to other characters where my options seems much more... cut-and-dry, I guess. ICs have a layer of depth to them I'm not used to.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Few questions:
• I did a grab release chain grab today (Holding with Popo, let go and grabbed with Nana). Is this practical at all?
• Is Squall Hammer ever useful apart from recovering?
• For continuous de-synchs, is there any particular attacks that work well with it, or do you just go all out. Most of the time I've been doing something along the lines of de-synch > Nana charge smash > Popo approach > Nana back-up (with blizzard, blocks, smash, etc...).
• I did a grab release chain grab today (Holding with Popo, let go and grabbed with Nana). Is this practical at all?
• Is Squall Hammer ever useful apart from recovering?
• For continuous de-synchs, is there any particular attacks that work well with it, or do you just go all out. Most of the time I've been doing something along the lines of de-synch > Nana charge smash > Popo approach > Nana back-up (with blizzard, blocks, smash, etc...).
Why grabrelease when you can dthrow > regrab? It's only useful when nana is headbutting too much, they get out and you regrab with popo
Squall can be useful for attacking since you often can get a dsmash with nana if you hit them with popo single squall (this really only happens when you are recovering desynched and nana comes back on your own while you squall into your opponent),
As for desynchs, all attacks works, just make sure the other climber is in lag when you input another move (obviously belay/squall isn't really the best move to use in these situations).
Squall can be useful for attacking since you often can get a dsmash with nana if you hit them with popo single squall (this really only happens when you are recovering desynched and nana comes back on your own while you squall into your opponent),
As for desynchs, all attacks works, just make sure the other climber is in lag when you input another move (obviously belay/squall isn't really the best move to use in these situations).
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Oh, one more thing.
I can't seem to pull off the Solo Nana Belay edge-guard, is there any trick to it? She hardly moves horizontally when I do it, so I have to be right next to the edge.
I can't seem to pull off the Solo Nana Belay edge-guard, is there any trick to it? She hardly moves horizontally when I do it, so I have to be right next to the edge.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Completely dependent on the situation. My most used attacks are probably Fair, Uair, Blizzard, and Ice Block. Sometimes, it's best to do tilts or smashes though.
Blizzard is def my most used move when I'm doing a continuous desynch since it has a long range, meaty hitbox BUT it's not THAT useful. I use it if I just need time to figure things out as far as positioning is concerned and to limit the options of where my opponent can go. Block is useful if you knock them away and force them into a teching position, so basically, limiting more options. Their specials are really good at limiting options from a neutral position if they are desynched.
This is probably the best example that I have of how I use continuous desynching on youtube and I messed up alot during this. lol The first Blizzard after the Fair was for me to get some time to think. It also gives the opponent something else to focus on, which is why I squeezed out a WDJab-Dsmash. I shot the Ice Block because I thought he would land on the platform in a teching position so the ice block would either force him to tech or reset him. When I noticed that he slid off the edge and it cancelled all of his hitstun, I made Nana jump and Blizzard to wall off that entire platform with a lingering hitbox. The Usmash was a mistake actually. I'm pretty sure that I meant to Utilt, which would have lead to me making Nana Nair or reverse Bairing him off the stage, which sets up for edgeguards. Instead, I usmash but his knockback is reset by by blizzard, he stomps nana and she dies. If I had been SMARTER, I could have just Nair/Uaired him before the stomp even happened though.
Overall though, continuous desynching is really unreliable though. Especially if you can't really gain any momentum off of it. I would say that it only really works because IC has this intimidation factor by merely existing so when someone sees a "flurry" of two hitboxes coming towards them, they **** bricks and die.
TL;DR Not the most reliable thing in the world and certainly not the safest, but continuous desynching is really freaking cool if you know what you're doing.
Also, if you're coming down to the ground and Nana and the opponent are there, stop trying to L-cancel the aerial and make Nana do something to cover your tracks. Yeah, you lose the quickened recovery but L-cancelling always makes Nana shield when she could have done something else to better protect you. Basically, you are sacrificing a little speed for staggered hitboxes. Not to mention, if someone were going to hit you, they would knock you out of the sky since IC doesn't have many options for coming down. It's really hard to describe, I'll try to get vids up of me doing it or something.
Talking about all of this makes me realize how much i love this freaking character. So many quirks and gimmicks.
God i need to play like you @_@
Question. In the video, you did the blizzard -> usmash. If you'd done a utilt instead, what would you have done? I was trying to imagine the most **** possible, which led me to blizzard -> utilt -> bair with nana -> fair spike with popo. The last two, I imagine, would need to be really close together, I just don't know if the timing is even possible. Forgot the utilt's lag.
Question. In the video, you did the blizzard -> usmash. If you'd done a utilt instead, what would you have done? I was trying to imagine the most **** possible, which led me to blizzard -> utilt -> bair with nana -> fair spike with popo. The last two, I imagine, would need to be really close together, I just don't know if the timing is even possible. Forgot the utilt's lag.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Continuous desynching is generally only pretty good if you have a blizzard out half the time. Even then, it's still somewhat frail. It's good for baiting some characters into approaching and it's really good for preventing a lot of characters from getting back on stage, but there's not much more than that it should be used for.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
I would have just Naired with nana, which would have given me enough time to turn around and finish it with a Popo Bair or Nana Nair -> Popo off stage Nair -> Double jump Nair.
And my playstyle isn't as effective as it is entertaining. I do want to be known as one of the IC greats at some point though. So I have to step it up and stop sucking.
Fly is right, though.
Fly's right in what way?
Smakis, you´re wrong on that grabreleases isn´t useful. It can condition the opponent to mash out=bad DI=early kills.
Something that should help advancing the ICmetagame overall is to discuss when desynchs are safe(since there´s two of em, gonna use that advantage), and close to always leads to things, I´ll start with an example:
Final destination, opponent has got the ledge on the left side, you stand a bit from it and desynchs Nana to charge a forward smash.
All while moving popo forward and shield. Expecting either to hit with Nanas fsmash(since moving forward forces the opponent to take action or get hit), which in the hitstun, can lead to a grab or just a very hard hit that also resets the situation(or makes it possible to gimp).
Something that should help advancing the ICmetagame overall is to discuss when desynchs are safe(since there´s two of em, gonna use that advantage), and close to always leads to things, I´ll start with an example:
Final destination, opponent has got the ledge on the left side, you stand a bit from it and desynchs Nana to charge a forward smash.
All while moving popo forward and shield. Expecting either to hit with Nanas fsmash(since moving forward forces the opponent to take action or get hit), which in the hitstun, can lead to a grab or just a very hard hit that also resets the situation(or makes it possible to gimp).
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
That continuous desynchs are frail brickwalls or super situational combo tools.
They look alot more intimidating or broken than it actually is. Ice Climbers are really mental-based characters.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
If that is the case, I really don't care for being effective. Continuous de-synchs are just too **** cool.
I love how you quoted me in your sig :D
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
LOL well, the quote made me feel really good. Thanks
Finch
Smash Lord
uberice uses continuous desynced fsmashes against marth and usually lands them when he needs to. It looks pretty cool.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
As in just nana Fsmash -> Popo Fsmash? Enlighten me, I don't understand
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
UberIce has the weirdest playstyle ever, but he's extremely good, so I can't fault him for it.
Found one with the desynced fsmashes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmPTONw-zjc&feature=related
Skip to 0:18.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmPTONw-zjc&feature=related
Skip to 0:18.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
4:05 of the same video.
Ridiculous.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
I feel like all of the top IC mains play very different from one another.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i can play like 75% of an ic's vs puff matchup doing continuous desynchs LOOOOOOL
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
IC vs puff is pure bull****, I got a friend who NEVER touched puff, he took him and then he got like 3 rest by random down-Bing or crouching...................
I was 4-stocking him with Fox and 1 stocking him with IC... I hate that match up I'd rather pick Pikachu in tournament against puff than IC lol.
I was 4-stocking him with Fox and 1 stocking him with IC... I hate that match up I'd rather pick Pikachu in tournament against puff than IC lol.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
Anyone have some general tips against C Falcon? I usually just have one in mind:
"Dont get hit by the knee"
"Dont get hit by the knee"
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Dude ... ICs are great against Puff. It's one of those wildcard matchups that we're actually good at, like Sheik.
I'm convinced that the Puff MU isn't as good as it seems. It is even ONLY when wobbling is on. Otherwise Rest really is the trump card.
Fly, would you mind writing a guide on Marth?
WOBBLES WRITE YOUR GOD DAMM PEACH GUIDE!
Also, the Blizzard>iceblock (Icewall) for characters holding the ledge is starting to not be as effective vs people I play alot. Ledge jump>DI away from the stage> ledge cancel a platform seems to get around it every time.
Fly, would you mind writing a guide on Marth?
WOBBLES WRITE YOUR GOD DAMM PEACH GUIDE!
Also, the Blizzard>iceblock (Icewall) for characters holding the ledge is starting to not be as effective vs people I play alot. Ledge jump>DI away from the stage> ledge cancel a platform seems to get around it every time.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Nah Puff/ICs is 50/50 even without wobbling imo.
Hbox 3 stocked UberIce and Chu in the same tournament. Sh*t wasn't even close, and that was WITH wobbling. Resting nana is too easy and unpunishable. It's especially easy to win once they learn how to get around blizzard.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
So? M2K 3 stocks top Fox players all the time. Does that mean that Marth counters Fox? No.
Hbox is just >>>> Chu/UI.
Hbox is just >>>> Chu/UI.
Faced hbox at APEX and the matchup is IMO in slight favour for ICs with both onstage, with Nana away theres not much to do though.
Got rested once when I tried to grab so it's easily better to just smash in every oppoturnity except when you know you´ll take the stock with wobbling or whateaver.
Desynch blizzard>iceblock under platforms makes an unapproachable wall as long as you play correcly and have nice timing (best on PS, other stages is probably not as good for that strategy), that deals damage which is all that´s needed since it´s patience vs patience, but possibly sometimes actually can lead to a grab (like IB>grab) even though it´s prefered to just smash. Due to this I think IC should beat puff, and random throwcomboes as popo.
ICs can even deal with a planking puff (ledgepuff) which is really great to be able to do.
Got rested once when I tried to grab so it's easily better to just smash in every oppoturnity except when you know you´ll take the stock with wobbling or whateaver.
Desynch blizzard>iceblock under platforms makes an unapproachable wall as long as you play correcly and have nice timing (best on PS, other stages is probably not as good for that strategy), that deals damage which is all that´s needed since it´s patience vs patience, but possibly sometimes actually can lead to a grab (like IB>grab) even though it´s prefered to just smash. Due to this I think IC should beat puff, and random throwcomboes as popo.
ICs can even deal with a planking puff (ledgepuff) which is really great to be able to do.
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
I just wrote something about that in the topic "Ice climbers match up chart" or something like that, and there's also a video.
I can't believe you can think that IC>Puff without wobbling lol... Puff has just way too much easy combo on nana and he rests easier IC with hitlag when he gets nana...
Whereas IC can't chaingrab and they haven't enough range to approach a good spacing.
This is mostly garbage. I play against the best puffs in the MW alot (I know that doesn't mean too much) but I can assure you Iceblock>blizzard is not an unapproachable wall. It is just about the easiest time to hit the ICs. Puff can just float to the other side of you and totally regain control. If you try to move backwards you get put in bad stage position. Blizzard isn't worthless, but it really isn't good once they learn how it works.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Puff is a weird matchup.
A lot of ICs seem to be good at it
But most of the community thinks its unwinnable for ICs.
I can't explain why IC performs so well in it. We just do.
A lot of ICs seem to be good at it
But most of the community thinks its unwinnable for ICs.
I can't explain why IC performs so well in it. We just do.
Vts
Smash Champion
cus our character is gay as hell also.
IC are starting to be the new hate and/or getting more hate from more people :S
i play this game for my enjoyment not urs so just accept my character is gay and learn how to beat it.
pretty much my feelings, its also way we are almost never rooted for.... people hate our character and don't think its cool and they think its too cheap :S
choknater
Smash Obsessed
oh yeah lol
apart from blizzblock
i spam dairs LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! idk why but it works
i almost never lose this matchup.
but hbox doesnt live in cali.
peef AMAZING SIG
apart from blizzblock
i spam dairs LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! idk why but it works
i almost never lose this matchup.
but hbox doesnt live in cali.
peef AMAZING SIG