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Social General Ice Climber Chat

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
Alright, sounds good.

edit: Actually, in retrospect I don't think I should have said stage control is something that solely comes with experience. I do think it is something that can be taught, although it probably requires committing a lot of scenarios to memory nonetheless.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
Really generally speaking, you want to be in a position where you have better options than your opponent does. How you can use the layout of the stage to accomplish this varies by match-up and stage, unsurprisingly. Still, there are a few really common good situations.

For example, it's really good to occupy the center of the stage. From here, you can often approach without putting yourself at too much risk and you can retreat pretty far should you need to. It is also worth mentioning that you shouldn't sacrifice the center of the stage easily; It can often be tempting to chase somebody onto a side platform, and while this is often fine, messing up can allow your opponent to get below you or get to the center of the stage. This doesn't mean you should perpetually try to occupy center stage, or even that you should be spending the majority of your time there, but it's often good to try to stay closer to the center than your opponent is.

Other positions that are situationally good to occupy include the space below a platform, since you have the option of wavelanding onto the platform, whereas you don't have that sort of movement option elsewhere on the stage, and the top platform, which some characters have a hard time reaching.

I don't think it's necessary to think of stage control in this sort of way to get good at it, but it definitely helps; I know that I wasn't any good at it until another player in my area whom I used to regularly practice with pointed out how I could be positioning myself better.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Peef, don't forget that you can bthrow techchase Falcon if Nana is momentarily unavailable. It's broken when you have your back to the ledge. After you've bthrow dsmashed a person enough times, they start teching in out of fear, which means free grabs, and Nana eventually wanders back to you, which probably means they're dead.

Other good things to do from a grab with Popo are dthrow -> jab (before they hit the ground) -> regrab and dthrow -> ftilt -> wavedash dsmash (they always miss the tech).
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
3,001
Location
Popping and locking butt naked.
I am starting to really hate fighting Samus, it is so easy for her to wreck Nana. It really depresses me that one missile can just kill Nana or a random Dsmash.


I think that in general I need to light shield more. I never do, but I think that would really improve my game a lot and alleviate a lot of my frustration at random shield stabs leading into Nana dying.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Yea, light shielding is crucial, especially vs Peach, but also just in general.

PMIRL, Samus is annoying, I agree. You have to avoid approaching her at the edge because of dsmash (similar to Peach's threats). You can wavedash -> shield her missiles and then approach with wavedash oos from there, but I personally like using ice blocks. I've noticed that on collision they cancel out missiles. Also, you can jump over the missile while throwing ice blocks. It's good for disrupting her ground game. I don't know if you can jab missiles (I've failed a couple times), but ftilt should be capable of disintegrating her projectiles as a last resort if you're worried about getting shield stabbed or whatever.

Whenever you grab Samus, make it count. Always blizzard her in the grab and dthrow to some smash attack. You can actually dthrow -> Nana fair -> Popo dsmash. In order to do this to Samus (and several other characters, including the Marios) you have to Nana jump forward a bit. It's a trick worth learning, though. From a grab at extremely low percents, I would recommend dthrow -> usmash -> uair -> another aerial, drawing from the book of ChuDat.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
3,001
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Popping and locking butt naked.
You have to avoid approaching her at the edge because of dsmash (similar to Peach's threats).
So true.

I get soo frustrated when I will rack the Samus up to around 100% and then all they do is Dsmash me near the edge and then Nana is gone. Once Nana is dead my friend camps me hella hard.

I am getting better at the match up, I used to always beat him, but then he learned the match up and I have been losing since then. I managed to get a few wins in against him with ICs today. Most of the time I just go Jigs and soundly **** him, but I want to learn the match up as ICs.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
I have a new trick out of grab.

Start just like charged fsmash chaingrab when fox is around 80-90%. Let it charge for a sec, dthrow, then walk forward with popo a bit and upsmash. This results in nana fsmashing them into Popo's usmash. Since they are DI'ing up, they die early from the usmash. It looks awesome.

Also works as a jiggs rest punisher. Charge a nana f or dsmash, drag her to jiggs, and when it goes off usmash with popo. jiggs will get smashed into popo's usmash and their DI will boost the hell out of your knockback.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
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Apr 6, 2007
Messages
3,001
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Popping and locking butt naked.
I have a new trick out of grab.

Start just like charged fsmash chaingrab when fox is around 80-90%. Let it charge for a sec, dthrow, then walk forward with popo a bit and upsmash. This results in nana fsmashing them into Popo's usmash. Since they are DI'ing up, they die early from the usmash. It looks awesome.

Also works as a jiggs rest punisher. Charge a nana f or dsmash, drag her to jiggs, and when it goes off usmash with popo. jiggs will get smashed into popo's usmash and their DI will boost the hell out of your knockback.
This sounds MAD CUTE, I am excited to try it out.


GET PEEFed. LOL.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Theres no reason to Fsmash>grab if fox is over 100. You will kill him with Fsmash>Usmash.

The reason it is easier is simply because the hitbox is out for way longer, and it is giant. I don't think Fsmash>grab is hard, but Fsmash>Usmash is easier.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
You COULD dthrow>charge Fsmash...

Or you could charge Fsmash>Usmash and make the crowd nut for you.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
I mean, the fsmash regrab isn't exactly commonplace either.

Random question: Can our dsmash be survived by DI'ing down and teching?
LOL, it can be survived by DIing down and missing the tech.

Yeah, it is vulnerable to double stick teching, and really you don't have to double stick. Just DI down and tech at most percentages. This only really comes into play vs recovering sheiks and....thats about the only situation I can imagine someone expecting the dsmash and knowing to double stick tech. Other than that, it'd only be on accident.
 

Vanitas

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
812
Location
Final Destination
Yesterday, i repped IC in a tournament and came 3rd D:
stoopid marths
can anyone give me advice on what to do with marth once you have a grab at early percents?
 

Vts

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
2,535
Location
Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
Moogle got 2nd and ihsb got 3rd at the tournament.

had to play moogle in winners then in losers ihsb

moogle lost to -chad- and ihsb lost to j00t in winner then beat j00t in losers semi's.

moogle also doesn't go sheik against me anymore since i beat him, now he goes peach >< and ihsb you know is that crazy samus player that never removes his hat :psycho:

over all every tournament i go to i always lose to a peach , samus, or marth
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
I'm trying make a tech skill vid for hmw's contest. I have some cool routines already but not enough for a full length video. Soo if anyone has any ideas for absurdly hard variations of continuous desynchs or anything like that I'd appreciate hearing them and give you credit (if I finish the video).

Edit -- 1111th post
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
3,001
Location
Popping and locking butt naked.
On Yoshi's you can up air > edge cancel dair > side b edgecanecl > into more nonsense
also on yoshis you can control nana on a platform from below, im sure you can make up some interesting looking things with that.


wobbling peach with a turnip in nanas hands is **** and comical.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
If you're allowed to have other characters in it, you should totally chain grab somebody on Randall.

There are probably neat things you could do with canceling ice blocks, whether canceled by landing or canceled by sliding off a surface.

I also recommend doing that desynch where you have only Popo L-cancel an aerial.

I bet you could do some cool things on FoD if you have one IC on a platform and the other one below it.

Just doing a bunch of obscure desynchs in general would probably look cool (squall hammer OoS, anything involving pivots, having Nana continuously jump while Popo stays on the ground, that one desynch where Nana teleports to a platform and does blizzard, maybe light-shield tricks, although those might be too sluggish for a tech skill video).

You know how if you try to sweetspot belay with Popo when you have both ICs and don't do it correctly, Nana falls? I think it would be neat if you did this repeatedly, although I'm not sure if it's actually possible to do this since Nana might fall out of range. I bet you could at least do some entertaining things with belay at the edge, nonetheless.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
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Messages
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Popping and locking butt naked.
If you're allowed to have other characters in it, you should totally chain grab somebody on Randall.

There are probably neat things you could do with canceling ice blocks, whether canceled by landing or canceled by sliding off a surface.

I also recommend doing that desynch where you have only Popo L-cancel an aerial.

I bet you could do some cool things on FoD if you have one IC on a platform and the other one below it.

Just doing a bunch of obscure desynchs in general would probably look cool (squall hammer OoS, anything involving pivots, having Nana continuously jump while Popo stays on the ground, that one desynch where Nana teleports to a platform and does blizzard, maybe light-shield tricks, although those might be too sluggish for a tech skill video).

You know how if you try to sweetspot belay with Popo when you have both ICs and don't do it correctly, Nana falls? I think it would be neat if you did this repeatedly, although I'm not sure if it's actually possible to do this since Nana might fall out of range. I bet you could at least do some entertaining things with belay at the edge, nonetheless.
Goes to training mode to entertain myself.

Cool stuff Fly.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
I was planning on doing my tech skill video for that contest with my Falcon, but it sounds like it would be more entertaining to do one with ICs.

"(squall hammer OoS, anything involving pivots, having Nana continuously jump while Popo stays on the ground, that one desynch where Nana teleports to a platform and does blizzard, maybe light-shield tricks, although those might be too sluggish for a tech skill video)."

How do you do these? I don't know how to do any of them...

I want to do a wierd handoff chaingrab on Falcon that ends with something dumb.

Hopefully Kyu Puff doesnt take all of ur ideas because I wannaaaa
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
Squall hammer OoS: Jump out of shield and input side-B while Nana is still shielding. Only Popo will do the squall hammer.

Pivot desynchs: Nana can't pivot, so things like pivot fsmash with Popo will desynch the ICs.

Nana-jumping-thing: After doing something like a roll, spot dodge, or whiffed grab, hold up. Nana will continuously jump while Popo stays on the floor.

Teleport-blizzard-thing: I don't actually remember how this works and was hoping Kyu would know.

The light-shield things probably weren't worth mentioning, but if you have both ICs light-shield, you can then have Popo adjust his shield size while Nana's shield size remains large. It's actually useful, but probably not good for showing off.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Squall hammer OoS: Jump out of shield and input side-B while Nana is still shielding. Only Popo will do the squall hammer.

Pivot desynchs: Nana can't pivot, so things like pivot fsmash with Popo will desynch the ICs.

Nana-jumping-thing: After doing something like a roll, spot dodge, or whiffed grab, hold up. Nana will continuously jump while Popo stays on the floor.

Teleport-blizzard-thing: I don't actually remember how this works and was hoping Kyu would know.

The light-shield things probably weren't worth mentioning, but if you have both ICs light-shield, you can then have Popo adjust his shield size while Nana's shield size remains large. It's actually useful, but probably not good for showing off.
I can do the pivot one.

The teleport sounds awesome and ima try it. Thanks for the link Smasher89.

So in the nana jump one, I should be able to imput a popo attack whenever nana is jumping right? At least during her jump startup. Thatd be cool
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
Yeah, you can have Popo do an attack or even walk around a little as long you don't let the control stick stray too far from straight up.
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
Thanks for the ideas PMIRL and Fly. For the l-cancel desynch, you just input a really late l-cancel right? It seems to be working for me.

By the way, that's my old desynch video that Smasher linked to. Most of the things were found by me or Wobbles (the blizzard teleport was me). :p

I'm planning to have it really continuous and smooth like all the other characters' tech skill vids... I want to show that ICs can be really technical too, it's just that most of their technical stuff doesn't look so technical... I wish there was some way to make Nana pivot because it would make my continuous desynchs a lot more flexible.

My biggest problem right now is finding cool platform/edge-canceling stuff. One thing I'm playing around with is ending a routine with up+b, and having both Nana and Popo edge-cancel the landing.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
I feel like a real copycat, but I wanna do my techskill video with the ICs toooo kyuuu =[ Not for competition sake, just for coolness and stoof.

Just tell me what you want to do in yours, and I wont do those things in mine. They are only a minute each so you can't hit everything...
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
Well I can't tell you what you can and can't do. :p

If you want to make one also go for it. I'm sure there are a million space animal tech skill videos being made; these will at least stand out from each other more than those.
 
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