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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
FlamingForce
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 390
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd6z9BlTmEQ
Anyone know how wobbles did that spotdodge popo roll + nana turnaround jab desync at around 7:34?
Anyone know how wobbles did that spotdodge popo roll + nana turnaround jab desync at around 7:34?
Cervidae
Smash Apprentice
He spot-dodged into a buffered roll, allowing only Popo to roll but releasing the c-stick before Nana forward smashes. The jab Nana throws out is of her own volition, since she is far enough away from Popo for the computer to kick in, but close enough to an opponent to throw out an attack (in this case, a jab).
SHIP
Smash Apprentice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmiNNmCaipM&feature=youtu.be
hitboxes are dumb in this game
hitboxes are dumb in this game
What set are you refering too, does it beat second match of this winners finals nintendude and plank played recently? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XTGo0RvVxY
john!
Smash Hero
there are people who still like plank?
This legitimately confused me when I saw people cheering on Plank in the Xanadu chat. I think its just newschoolers cheering on who they believe is the underdog and are completely unaware of who he is and what he's done. Tbh, I guess there's a difference between being a TO and being a player. But even then, people are gonna be hating Fortune for a long while yet, and I'm pretty sure the OGs are never forgiving him.
TheRealFluid
Smash Cadet
Is Peach down smash safe on Ice Climber's shield? If IC's wavedash grab to punish, does Peach have enough time to spotdodge and/or jab?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
yeah you can punish it. If you're too slow she'll dsmash again though.
Yeah, and if you learn to wavedash OoS it's VERY helpful for punishing it.
Ringedge
Smash Apprentice
I am curious, what did plank do?
SHIP
Smash Apprentice
anyone know the frame data on double jab vs jab cancels?
choknater's guide says that jab cancels are faster but when I tried it they seemed to be roughly the same speed.
choknater's guide says that jab cancels are faster but when I tried it they seemed to be roughly the same speed.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBMAbBPfK7w
could anyone help me out here? been a while since i went to the bay and this was a good set for me but i wanna edge it out next time
could anyone help me out here? been a while since i went to the bay and this was a good set for me but i wanna edge it out next time
Really liking your usage of tilts in neutral to covers Peach's approach on the platform, and brave as hell for going for those dthrow>dair CGs. Also gotta say it's good to see how much you're covering Nana's returns back to the stage, or are at least conscience of them in your gameplay. Imma assume you're an ICs who doesn't wobble, as if you are, there were multiple opportunities in which you could have just taken the stock, and in a matchup as horrible as Peach/Icies, I'd almost recommend using whatever you have at your disposal in order to take the game. But overall, good stuff!
Ephenilliac
Smash Cadet
http:// youtu. be/ uFAxtPeZXsc?t=9m17s
Can anyone help explain to me (like timing and such) how Wobbles did the up-b where only Nana goes up on stage while Popo hangs on to the ledge?
Can anyone help explain to me (like timing and such) how Wobbles did the up-b where only Nana goes up on stage while Popo hangs on to the ledge?
OddishGuy
Smash Journeyman
Your link didn't really work for me but I think you are talking about this set/thingamabob
http://youtu.be/uFAxtPeZXsc?t=9m17s
Informative post with gifs and things: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2fta4k/belaystall
Drop down, hop back up to be about level with the stage, slight pause (Popo should be right at the brink of rising/falling), then up-B.
The up-B will start up but Popo will be forced to grab edge. Probably the best way to save Nana in most cases.
You can also edge-cancel the Up-B from what I understand.
Ephenilliac
Smash Cadet
Thank you, and sorry about the broken link but Smashboards doesn't want me posting links until I reach 10 posts lol.
OddishGuy
Smash Journeyman
So I've been having some trouble in the spacies matchup. I have some friends (Foxes/Falcos) who I play a ton, and they're just all over me. I can only dash-dance and space so much, I have to shield quite a bit in the matchup. The main problem comes about when I shield too late and Nana get's hit and separated.
One thing I've been pondering is light-shielding almost exclusively in this matchup. The idea being that the light-sheild will cover Nana, so either you both get hit, or neither.
However, light-shield, from what I understand, comes out 2 frames later than full shield (due to the power-shield window). So if I light-shield with Popo it's only 4 frames faster coverage for Nana than full shield. Also, I have heardit said that light-shield comes with extra shield stun (can't find too much info on this), so that kind of stinks. Not super worried about the extra slide since they're mostly hitting me with safe Dair-shines, so no worries about getting pushed over an edge or missing a potential shield-grab.
Basic question, should I just keep practicing and get those shields/upairs out faster, or is the light-shield tactic legit? Aside from Chu, I don't see much light-shield utilization, so there must be some serious downsides.
Any info/article links would be appreciated!
One thing I've been pondering is light-shielding almost exclusively in this matchup. The idea being that the light-sheild will cover Nana, so either you both get hit, or neither.
However, light-shield, from what I understand, comes out 2 frames later than full shield (due to the power-shield window). So if I light-shield with Popo it's only 4 frames faster coverage for Nana than full shield. Also, I have heardit said that light-shield comes with extra shield stun (can't find too much info on this), so that kind of stinks. Not super worried about the extra slide since they're mostly hitting me with safe Dair-shines, so no worries about getting pushed over an edge or missing a potential shield-grab.
Basic question, should I just keep practicing and get those shields/upairs out faster, or is the light-shield tactic legit? Aside from Chu, I don't see much light-shield utilization, so there must be some serious downsides.
Any info/article links would be appreciated!
NP man, wasn't too hard to figure out the link. But yeah, I forgot about the 10 post link thing, MB.
Light shield is harder to get out, and spacies can just start reacting and shinegrabbing after shield pressure. Another benefit from lightshielding is they often miss the tech, so I try to mix lightshields in when I'm playing spacies, falcon, and ganon who think they're safe by hitting my shield with dair. Popo will lightshield, while nana fullshields and nana can sometimes get the shieldgrab off.
I haven't noticed any downsides specific to lightshielding, usually it's just that the opponents react to me shielding and change their game accordingly.
EDIT: ha, just realized I didn't really offer any information that you asked for like cons of lightshielding. I've got to be more conservative with the 'Post Reply' button.
I haven't noticed any downsides specific to lightshielding, usually it's just that the opponents react to me shielding and change their game accordingly.
EDIT: ha, just realized I didn't really offer any information that you asked for like cons of lightshielding. I've got to be more conservative with the 'Post Reply' button.
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choknater
Smash Obsessed
Thanks. It's not that I don't wobble, but sometimes i have trouble getting low percent setups, so because of pressure/nerves i go for non-guaranteed CG's instead. i will practice it, it cost me a tournament yesterday as well
Ahhhhh I get what you mean. The combined pressure of tourney nerves and being on the stream setup so you know people are gonna be watching you stacks it up a bit, trust me I know from experience (I wobbled one guy to 100+% before then mistiming a hit and he mashed out and I then had to chase him down to kill him lol)
SHIP
Smash Apprentice
I have to practise like twice a week for wobbling because I have no rhythm. Once I get it started I can usually kill though.
If you have any Nujabes in your possession, listen to some of his stuff. Very chilled and beat rhythm and tempo heavy. Listen to his song Spiritual State, has a very good rhythm for wobbling lol. Tbh, I just go off of visual cues and it works just fine for me.
SHIP
Smash Apprentice
I dont like listening to music when I play. I just kinda feel like I have a clock ticking in my head that I have to sync up to wobble properly. Same thing for handoffs and chaingrabs.
Ahhhhh I gotcha. I only listen to music when I'm practicing tech skill that isn't wobbling, but even then, I can still get a solid wobble off if I'm listening to something off-beat for some reason.
OddishGuy
Smash Journeyman
No, this post was helpful, thanks for the reply!
Haven't thought of shine-grab punishment. With good shield DI it should hopefully be avoidable, but then tomahawks come into play. Hrm, not used to people grabbing my IC's too much, haven't given it a lot of thought I guess.
Opponent's missed L-cancels are always nice, but something I'm trying not to rely on too much at this point.
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Vanitas
Smash Ace
Hey guys;
I played Montreal's ranked number 3 Lampadaires (formerly known as PKM Vodka) in tournament this weekend and brought him down to the last game, last stock. Unfortunately, I took too many aggressive options and wasn't able to pull the upset. I also played a fairly strong Falcon from Montreal by the name of SSF after I had a moment to recollect my thoughts and played fine. I would appreciate any constructive criticism!
Vanitas vs Lampadaires (Luigi, Falcon, Peach)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSfFBmcYnQw
Vanitas vs SSF (Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNDSCW0oLPk
I played Montreal's ranked number 3 Lampadaires (formerly known as PKM Vodka) in tournament this weekend and brought him down to the last game, last stock. Unfortunately, I took too many aggressive options and wasn't able to pull the upset. I also played a fairly strong Falcon from Montreal by the name of SSF after I had a moment to recollect my thoughts and played fine. I would appreciate any constructive criticism!
Vanitas vs Lampadaires (Luigi, Falcon, Peach)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSfFBmcYnQw
Vanitas vs SSF (Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNDSCW0oLPk
dizzkidboogie
Smash Cadet
Good stuff! I really like your movement, especially with the solo Ice Climber!
I have a few DI things to share. For the normal dthrow->dair->regrab, I find that it's much harder for the peach to SDI out of it if you do a short hop with the backup climber (http://youtu.be/-7KIZmmQcDo?t=19s) For the reverse dthrow->dair->regrab, I find that it's much harder for the peach to SDI out of it if you do a full hop with the back up climber (http://youtu.be/-7KIZmmQcDo?t=7m3s). Also, Peach's down throw should be DI'd down and away. On Yoshi's (at 10:44) you get hit by the dash attack follow up because you DI'd just away, instead of down and away.
For wobbling, I practice Tomber's "perfect wobble setup" exercise a lot, and I think it would be really helpful for those low percent situations you mentioned (The exercise, for those who don't know, is to bait a level 7 samus to miss a grab, and then wobble them from 0%. If you can do it, then your timing and set up are very good! Once you have that mastered, I've found that a 20XX Short Hop Lasering Falco is even more of a challenge; just stand behind them and start wobbling when they land!). I'm a musician, so rhythm isn't a problem for me, but I still practice wobbling a lot; you can never be too comfortable with it!
In general, I like to play the Peach matchup more slowly, fighting a spacing war against her float. I've been studying the matchup a lot, and have found that Peach really only has one option; Float Cancelled Forward Air (Armada says that the matchup will always favor Peach until we can find an answer to it). Without that move, she's a sitting duck (especially if you can get your wobble setups down!). Because of that, Peach players play REALLY defensively around their fair. In your set, Alan seemed to always follow up his FC Fair (at or near you) with either a down smash or a ground level float (with a few variations). You can punish the float by just grabbing right away! I LOVE when Peaches down smash after their FC Fair; it's so easy to punish with a grab in its wind down! The grab timing is tight, but once you're used to it, you can get it every time! I think the FC Fair punish is the biggest part of the metagame with the Peach matchup, so I like big stages that allow me to get a read on their movements and habits (I usually strike to BF and/or FD, counterpick to BF, PS, or FD depending on how aggressive they are, and ban FoD or DL depending on how aggressive they are). The smartest thing for a Peach to do after a FC Fair is either to jab->jump, or just jump. In that case, you can hit them with bair, squall, or nair (in that order of effectiveness). I think desynched projectiles are only good if the Peach is wary to approach. If they're aggressive, they can get in there and separate you with ease. I played a bunch with Armada, and he SEVERELY punished every desynch that wasn't super safe, so use them wisely!
Another little thing: If a player is pummeling me a lot when they grab (like Alan did to you), instead of mashing to escape the grab, I let my backup climber get close and then attack with them. Your mashing sometimes made Popo roll away from you, when he could have hit Peach and saved you!
I really concentrate on the study and execution of the Peach matchup, with the hope that one day even Armada will fear me! That being said, I'm pretty new and still learning a lot, so I don't mean to present this information as fact; just my opinion! By the way, I LOVE your guide to non-grab skillz! It's practically my bible!
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
another little trick to set up a wobble from 0/low percent, that works especially well on peach is just to fair->spot dodge desync->grab (or jab if you aren't on a platform), since nana acts first you have to handoff.
you can also L-cancel desync to have popo act first, but with peach nana will recover before you can grab peach, which can lead to an improper setup, so I spotdodge.
you can also L-cancel desync to have popo act first, but with peach nana will recover before you can grab peach, which can lead to an improper setup, so I spotdodge.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
thanks so much dizzkidboogie, that was really helpful!!
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Another cool thing is that ICs are actually really good with a turnip in their hand. You can actually combo pretty hard with them.
It's like 5 in the morning, but I'll post some stuff about turnip combos tomorrow.
It's like 5 in the morning, but I'll post some stuff about turnip combos tomorrow.
dizzkidboogie
Smash Cadet
OH YEAH, Derf.MW reminded me; catch Peach's turnips a lot! Ice Climbers are really good at doing "the Armada" (Hold a stitch face and attack without throwing it for a while)! You can ice block from a distance, and squall when up close (desynching a blizzard with the backup while threatening to throw the turnip/shooting an aerial iceblock with the main climber is great too!) I LOVE doing turnip combos, and hitting Peach with her own stitch and then regrabbing it REALLY gets in their head!
It's my pleasure! I'm glad it helps; I love talking about matchups, and Peach is my second favorite (behind the Ice Climber ditto!)! I look forward to watching and learning from your future sets against Peaches!
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DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
It's probably the easiest projectile to catch.
except mr. saturn.
but if you cc it, you can catch it with whichever climber isn't hit by it, which is an easy way to learn the timing.
except mr. saturn.
but if you cc it, you can catch it with whichever climber isn't hit by it, which is an easy way to learn the timing.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I'm not super fond of catching turnips when synced since that causes Nana to do something undesirable generally. One way to prevent her from doing something like a dumb nair, though, is to do squall hammer within 6 frames after catching the turnip with Popo, so that she partakes in synced squall before she can throw an aerial out. Alternatively, you can keep Nana preoccupied with something like a blizzard on the ground when catching the turnip with Popo, although you need to be prepared to defend yourself quickly in that cases since Peaches will often take a blizzard on the ground as a cue to approach. Other than that, grabbing a turnip on the ground with A and having Nana jab is probably okay as long as Peach isn't actively pressuring you, or if you promptly retreat if she is coming at you; you can probably sometimes squeeze under her with dash forward -> upwards turnip toss as well.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yeah grounded catch with a jab is the safest way. i never catch in the air unless im sopo
Samwisely
Smash Apprentice
I've improved a ton since I started competing back in September, working on consistent wavedashing, desynchs, wobbling, hand-offs, etc. Generally been in the lab. I still have a long way to go, but I want to be the best Ice Climber main in my state (Minnesota, so nothing notable). We'll see what comes after that.
In order to prove that progress, I just challenged the most well-known IC main in state to a MM at our next monthly. What should be doing in an Ice Climber ditto?
In order to prove that progress, I just challenged the most well-known IC main in state to a MM at our next monthly. What should be doing in an Ice Climber ditto?
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