Social General Ice Climber Chat

[shuall]

powershield all of marth's attacks

 

[Blue2ez]

TY Derf.MW and TheRealFluid . Also, sorry for these scrub questions but, how do you get nana to grab the edge for an edgeguard? Every time I do it she ends up rolling/attacking up.

 

[FlamingForce]

Nana will always leave the ledge immediately, if you want to edgehog someone you gotta time it right.

 

[BluntMaster]

Nana will always leave the ledge immediately, if you want to edgehog someone you gotta time it right.

If I want to cover the ledge + slightly above it I like to roll towards the ledge, start charging a smash with nana, and then wavedash back to grab ledge with popo. And just time the smash to when they try to recover.

On this topic, any tips for edgeguarding fox? I know that ledgehop dair is good if the fox is coming from below, but a lot of my struggles come when fox is close enough to the stage so they can either side-b on to the side platform, or firefox that they can either sweetspot the ledge or go for top platform. I feel like my positioning on the stage will determine where the fox goes and securing a kill relies on mostly mindgames and making the opponent think that I'm going to cover a different option.

 

[FlamingForce]

I usually just blizzard the ledge and try to uair > bair any attempts to recover high.

 

[S2rulL]

Wow, interesting people think Marth is their worst matchup! I've always personally struggled more with Peach and Samus. Might just be me though.

 

[Meme]

Practicing Wavedash out of shield helps a lot with the Marth matchup, the matchups I struggle the must are like S2ruIL's Peach and Samus, although I also have problems with Mario/Doc/Luigi.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Wow, interesting people think Marth is their worst matchup! I've always personally struggled more with Peach and Samus. Might just be me though.

wobbles explains those matchups as being a part of the skill curve.
basically, if you compare a peach or samus player at the exact same skill level as an IC player, it is easier for the peach or samus to gain the tools necessary than for an IC

but as they climb to higher levels, the matchups even out a lot more.
Wobbles says Peach/ICs is about 60-40 Peach and that ICs beat samus.

 

[john!]

my favorite IC's edgeguard (one of the easiest and most reliable) is to roll towards the ledge and nanapult (up-b OOS) and have nana grab the ledge. she usually rolls off, and i'm able to cover high recoveries with my move of choice.

 

[S2rulL]

Mine is the ol' reliable of spot dodge desync blizzard>popo wd onto ledge

 

[DerfMidWest]

you don't need to upB out of shield if you roll towards the ledge.
you can just hold up and back and only nana will jump.
same with spotdodge.

 

[john!]

Mine is the ol' reliable of spot dodge desync blizzard>popo wd onto ledge

i don't like blizzard because they can just up-b again right next to the stage

 

[OddishGuy]

She usually rolls off, and i'm able to cover high recoveries with my move of choice.

What godly AI do you have? Mine get-up attacks like 60% of the time every time it feels like, or sometimes normal get up V_V

I don't like blizzard because they can just up-b again right next to the stage

Would you have time to ledge hop bair with Popo while the opponent is getting hit with blizzard?

 

[shuall]

i don't like blizzard because they can just up-b again right next to the stage

If they're up-bing right next to the stage that's prime smash attack range. Unless they grab the ledge real quick, but you can smash while they're getting blizzarded; if it hits, good, if not, grab ledge/blizzard again/smash more.

 

[john!]

doesn't seem like that would work against (for example) spacies, especially on stages with platforms near the ledges. could be a good mixup i guess?

 

[OddishGuy]

doesn't seem like that would work against (for example) spacies, especially on stages with platforms near the ledges. could be a good mixup i guess?

If the spacey is below and goes for a platform they get caught by blizzard. In the situation where a spacey is in the position to either go down to sweet-spot, go straight at you, or go to platform, Nana could cover edge options with blizzard while you cover platform right?
IDK if we're talking about the same edgeguard situation.

 

[DerfMidWest]

nana getup attacks almost 100% of the time if there is someone nearby.
occasionally she will roll.

 

[TheRealFluid]

Is anyone on the shield drop hype train? I feel like it has a lot of use in some of IC's harder matchups like Peach where players like Fly Amanita and Wobbles are using more platforms in their neutral game.

 

[OddishGuy]

Is anyone on the shield drop hype train? I feel like it has a lot of use in some of IC's harder matchups like Peach where players like Fly Amanita and Wobbles are using more platforms in their neutral game.

I usually love sheild dropping with whatever character I'm using and I think it's an amazing option overall. Sheild drop U-air is pretty sick and can catch people if they're right on you. However, one big downside to sheild drop with Ice Climber's is that you can unintentionally desync due to Nana's delay. If you mess up the pace of the motion it's possible to get one of them to fail the sheild drop. This can obviously lead to huge punishes by your opponent who will now have a desynced Nana at his or her mercy, likely near an edge.
So for Sopo, yeah, abuse sheild drop, it's fantastic. But when Nana's around I don't trust myself enough to use it.


EDIT: Also, does anyone know/have a link to a thread about Nana's L-cancels? I've been messing around and have noticed that she occasionally misses them (around a fourth?) But if I light-press to L-cancel she appears to never miss an L-cancel. I would like to know more for possible guaranteed desyncs out of SHFFL and such. Thanks for any info!

 

[Fly_Amanita]

ICs' options out of shield-dropping aren't that great in most regards and it's rare for being in your shield on a platform to be good (exceptions include being on a top platform against a character terrible getting up there and when you're confident that the opponent will actually do something you can punish OoS one way or another). It's a useful skill when you find yourself stuck in your shield on a platform, but it's important to not pull a Sung and put yourself in that situation when it's not forced.

 

[FlamingForce]

From my experience you'll usually end up leaving either popo or nana behind on the platform.
Outside of playing sopo, I'm not a fan of it.

 

[DerfMidWest]

if you do it correctly, you'll drop with both climbers. It takes practice. You have to wait for both climbers to be out of shield stun.
Sometimes, it isn't bad to leave one of them up there, since you're probably dropping down with uair.
Shield drop nair is pretty good too, so is shield drop dair in some situations.
My general choice is bair, since it has range, but at mid percents, it won't set much up, but gets people off of you, and knocks down a lot of the time too.

You can also do some silly desyncs with shield drops.

I like them, but I also play on platforms a lot more than most people.

 

[Vanitas]

I'm looking for critiquing on a couple of matches against Montreal's finest:

Vs BAM (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b23057f-Fg

Vs HHH (Peach)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPQQn9_QXgM

Overall, I'm pleased on how I did against Bam, if my punishes off of grabs were stronger, I feel like it might have been a lot more closer. But any help/tips/critique would help!

 

[S2rulL]

@ Vanitas (The guy on the right kinda looks a lot like Adam Levine js) I see you going for the lvl9 CPU trick, good use of meta and theory to get inside the opponents head, nice bit of psychological meta. Your movement looks really good, nice and quick, and I like some of the options you used in order to get Nana synced back up (i.e. aerial gaunt hammer). You have some nice edgeguards as well, just gotta make sure you're able to send them off for the kill once and for all. Also, despite you SoPo looking good, might help to take a little more care of Nana (I'm guilty of this myself, as are a lot of Icies players). Haven't watched the set Vs HHH but will take a look later!

 

[SHIP]

@ Vanitas I think you are kinda too transparent with your grab attempts. Unless you can make them throw out a move or catch them off guard with some slick movement people won't just let you walk up to them and land a grab. Your desyncs against peach were fantastic but peach is really good at avoiding blizzards, if you tried what you did against peach against the fox I feel like you would have found yourself in a lot more grab setups. In fact you can see in the games that your grabs came easier from WD jab and desynced blizzard.

I also feel like you nair a little bit too often and bair too seldom. In fact you often naired in neutral (which I feel is pretty weak) and tended to bair only as a part of combos.

Grabbing the ledge and rolling when the fox recovers low is very effective.

While your survival DI is pretty good, your combo DI seemed kinda lacking. I like your movement however it only seemed to come into play after your Nana was dead.

So in summary blizzard desync more against fox, back air more against peach, roll from the edge and just generally hit them more with hammers.
In fact my preferred method is to hit them with hammers then techchase grab. Oh also we need to start actually just straight killing people off of the grabs we do get.

 

[Vanitas]

@ Vanitas (The guy on the right kinda looks a lot like Adam Levine js) I see you going for the lvl9 CPU trick, good use of meta and theory to get inside the opponents head, nice bit of psychological meta. Your movement looks really good, nice and quick, and I like some of the options you used in order to get Nana synced back up (i.e. aerial gaunt hammer). You have some nice edgeguards as well, just gotta make sure you're able to send them off for the kill once and for all. Also, despite you SoPo looking good, might help to take a little more care of Nana (I'm guilty of this myself, as are a lot of Icies players). Haven't watched the set Vs HHH but will take a look later!

Yeah I guess I do struggle on what to do after opponents return after the respawn platform and then I usually lose Nana...I will look into protecting my woman more haha if you know any sort of plans on avoiding the opponent inbetween stocks, that would be great! Thank you for the feedback!

@ Vanitas I think you are kinda too transparent with your grab attempts. Unless you can make them throw out a move or catch them off guard with some slick movement people won't just let you walk up to them and land a grab. Your desyncs against peach were fantastic but peach is really good at avoiding blizzards, if you tried what you did against peach against the fox I feel like you would have found yourself in a lot more grab setups. In fact you can see in the games that your grabs came easier from WD jab and desynced blizzard.

I also feel like you nair a little bit too often and bair too seldom. In fact you often naired in neutral (which I feel is pretty weak) and tended to bair only as a part of combos.

Grabbing the ledge and rolling when the fox recovers low is very effective.

While your survival DI is pretty good, your combo DI seemed kinda lacking. I like your movement however it only seemed to come into play after your Nana was dead.

So in summary blizzard desync more against fox, back air more against peach, roll from the edge and just generally hit them more with hammers.
In fact my preferred method is to hit them with hammers then techchase grab. Oh also we need to start actually just straight killing people off of the grabs we do get.

Thank you for the feedback! I have to admit I played poorly against the Peach as I lacked squall hammers, I missed my handoff and my grabs were too easy to read imo. Where does my combo DI seem to affect me? I've been trying to learn how I can improve that but it's difficult to assess my own videos since I'm the one playing. And yes I will try to do more bairs as they are pretty much our best aerials.

 

[SHIP]

Yeah I guess I do struggle on what to do after opponents return after the respawn platform and then I usually lose Nana...I will look into protecting my woman more haha if you know any sort of plans on avoiding the opponent inbetween stocks, that would be great! Thank you for the feedback!



Thank you for the feedback! I have to admit I played poorly against the Peach as I lacked squall hammers, I missed my handoff and my grabs were too easy to read imo. Where does my combo DI seem to affect me? I've been trying to learn how I can improve that but it's difficult to assess my own videos since I'm the one playing. And yes I will try to do more bairs as they are pretty much our best aerials.

Well against fox you got hit a lot of weak bair into upsmash. I think you could have avoided at least one of them by DIing out to the ledge. Its pretty hard to judge especially when playing so maybe its worth trying to get some players you know to talk about it during friendlies.

 

[TheRealFluid]

Hey since we're on the topic of reviewing and critiquing games, can anyone do said things for my games against Chicago's finest?


Me vs Sago (Marth)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5psHoNQkJls

Me vs Orly (Captain Falcon)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbRU6F6hAN4

Me vs Scythe (Falco)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRBcUXSgsc

Thanks doods.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Vs marth
1. I dont know how you got to FoD but I believe it is horrible vs marth. The low platforms assist marth in landing tilts and fsmash as well as being great for his uair followups, It's also got a high ceiling so upsmash finishes out of chaingrabs dont kill as early. generally stay away from yoshi's and FoD, battlefield(cause he has to sweetspot) and dreamland(live long and edgeguard better than him) are both great options if he wont let you take him to FD. In neutral there is an interesting mixup in the matchup; his fsmash on your shield is punishable by WD but if he dtilts it wont work so you need to sh fair toward him if you read dtilt to punish or just retreat/lightshield. A simple trick I find great success with vs marth when edgeguarding is to desync an ice block with nana so the iceblock hit him if he sweetspots and you can just grab the ledge. If the ice block misses him he probably had to upb above the ledge which is punishable by fsmash.
2. You seem to use the roll desync way too much here, sometimes it would have been better to blizzard out of the roll when he was close or use a spotdodge or dash dance desync out instead. Marth cant really approach vs blizzard so he is forced into either retreating with fairs into dtilt or rolling behind you. You also seem to be pushing too hard for grab out of nanapult/ roll desync into ice block, sometimes you were just too slow getting there and sometimes you just needed to JC grab instead of dash grab. Overall I say focus less on desyncs and especially nanapult(you should be using it as a mixup or else you will lose nana too often) try learning the input for sh blizzard instead of nanapult. You were also jumping/ pushing for grabs in places you didnt need to be aggressive, just try and force him into blizzard and get them to approach

 

[DerfMidWest]

completely unrelated to anything relevant, after years of pretending this actually works, yesterday I actually connect dthrow->weak nana bair->regrab on a human and it made me incredibly happy.
I'm going to continue to pretend it is a thing.

 

[S2rulL]

completely unrelated to anything relevant, after years of pretending this actually works, yesterday I actually connect dthrow->weak nana bair->regrab on a human and it made me incredibly happy.
I'm going to continue to pretend it is a thing.

That's always the best, when everyone gets mad hype for you doing some awesome desync thing and in your head you're thinking "That'll never happen again... But I ain't telling 'em that."

 

[DerfMidWest]

That's always the best, when everyone gets mad hype for you doing some awesome desync thing and in your head you're thinking "That'll never happen again... But I ain't telling 'em that."

people always get hyped over things that happen totally by accident, like nana just does something stupid and I react to it and then she dsmashes or weird **** like that were I actually have very little control over what is going on

 

[S2rulL]

people always get hyped over things that happen totally by accident, like nana just does something stupid and I react to it and then she dsmashes or weird **** like that were I actually have very little control over what is going on

Lol at my regions last monthly people got hella hype cus nana did a get up attack off the ledge and I reacted and dsmashed when the opponent's Marth was in a tumble state, and all I could think was "Thank you based Nana."

 

[cemo]

Some of the coolest combos are from reacting to Nana garbage. <3 Nana

 

[DerfMidWest]

some of the coolest combos also end in nana getting stuck in teeter and me falling to my death

 

[SHIP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNuuzN2G0LA&feature=youtu.be

 

[S2rulL]

There were some technical difficulties at my regions last monthly, meaning that the recordings got chopped up, but here's the last game of the Loser's Finals set. If you like salt and Wobbling, this might be for you!
http://www.twitch.tv/underworld_asylum/b/584546837

 

[SHIP]

There were some technical difficulties at my regions last monthly, meaning that the recordings got chopped up, but here's the last game of the Loser's Finals set. If you like salt and Wobbling, this might be for you!
http://www.twitch.tv/underworld_asylum/b/584546837

I wish my opponents still fell for the old roll blizzard. But congrats on getting 2nd. Your movement looks so much better. Those guys really need to learn the matchup rather than running into blizzard and getting shield grabbed for free then johning about the wobble.

 

[S2rulL]

I wish my opponents still fell for the old roll blizzard. But congrats on getting 2nd. Your movement looks so much better. Those guys really need to learn the matchup rather than running into blizzard and getting shield grabbed for free then johning about the wobble.

I think this can pretty much sum the majority of my region up lol. Only a few players have truly adjusted (TFU & Greengrocer) and the rest just claim Icies are easy due to wobbling (which as we all know here is complete garbage).

EDIT: And cheers! Was so proud of my placing

 

[Vanitas]

Salt and Wobbling? Nothing beats DP's salt vs Nintendude. Nothing.