Social General Ice Climber Chat

[choknater]

wavedashing under a jump and aggressively using utilt to catch them

or defensively catching a jump approach

utilt's hitbox is very particular and it usually requires some kind of read, or some kind of gutsy commitment, in order to connect

 

[Encephalon Decay]

Thanks mate, and glad you found that blizzard guide (We were talking on the stream last night )

One other thing; I typically face a Peach main who, while not terribly turnip-happy, is a good tech chaser and typically focuses on Popo more than Nana. Any advice?

 

[KingDozie]

Luigi is annoyiny because he's extremely hard to combo due to his floatiness and interrupt your juggles with fast, strong aerials. I also found him very difficult to edgeguard since he can come back from just about anywhere he doesn't die outright and has the ability to control exactly how far he is from the ledge, ultimately sweetspotting his up b just right, every time. Wasn't sure what to do about that, tips?

 

[DerfMidWest]

One other thing; I typically face a Peach main who, while not terribly turnip-happy, is a good tech chaser and typically focuses on Popo more than Nana. Any advice?

you gotta learn to mix your techs up more. It's hard to get the hang of, but yeah.Learn to avoid situations that lead to a knockdown.

Luigi is annoyiny because he's extremely hard to combo due to his floatiness and interrupt your juggles with fast, strong aerials. I also found him very difficult to edgeguard since he can come back from just about anywhere he doesn't die outright and has the ability to control exactly how far he is from the ledge, ultimately sweetspotting his up b just right, every time. Wasn't sure what to do about that, tips?

Lots and lots of projectiles, particularly blizzards.That matchup is infuriating because it's entirely about patience. You have to have endurance to do it.

 

[Chuckles]

Critique my ICs mkay? Ive been playing for about 6 months.

I played the first two sets. Hit me with that IC knowledge.

 

[Tomber]

What kind of situations would really call for utilt? I feel like it's probably a lot more useful than I give it credit for, as I almost never use it. Same with bthrow (If I want to send them backwards, I'll typically just uthrow-fsmash).

U-tilt is also decent to use under platforms if you are confident that the other player will drop through it with an aerial. (http://youtu.be/9JR3rFb8gQw?t=4m )

But yeah, It's a high commitment move and you'll usually need some kind of read in order to use it successfully, as choknater mentioned. I use it a lot against Falcon to catch his aerial approaches and sometimes against spacies as well. In pretty much every other match up I prefer up-smash and SH uair.

Back-throw is usually a pretty weak throw when you have both climbers. However, when you only have one climber it has some decent uses. Against fast fallers you can back throw if you're confident the other player will miss the ground tech or that you can get a tech chase. Against floaties you can at certain %'s follow up on a back-throw with full jump fair if the other player DIs up. You can also force some characters to land on a platform at certain %.

 

[Smasher89]

Desynched solo uptilt on shield is good at forcing reactions.

 

[Encephalon Decay]

Good stuff guys, and thanks for the vid Tomber. Good examples of both moves having uses.

 

[Chuckles]

How do I deal with a marth who constantly platform camps and never approaches until I approach? Just lost a 5$ mm. =[

 

[cemo]

How do I deal with a marth who constantly platform camps and never approaches until I approach? Just lost a 5$ mm. =[

The purpose of platform camping is generally to pull you into a bad position. Being on the platform itself isn't really that strong of a position so don't over commit just to get him off the platform, that's what he wants. When you would come closer, what would he do? How was he getting his hits on you? What positions led to him winning neutral and what positions led to you winning neutral?

 

[Chuckles]

Starts around 9 minutes

 

[DerfMidWest]

get under him. what's he gonna do? lmao.
Or you can just spam blizzards right out of his range and usmash/uair/utilt if he tries to jump in over them.
also don't fish for grabs so much

 

[Chuckles]

If I try and get under him, at least when he's on a platform, he'll drop down and fair or up air into and utilt. Also, Is Usmash actually viable in that MU?

 

[choknater]

do short hop up airs to poke him from beneath the platform BEFORE he comes down

you're in the advantageous position when you're beneath him and he doesn't wanna be there, so he'll either jump from there to another platform, or come down and fair like you said

if you don't wanna commit all the way because you're afraid of getting hit, you can at least bait out the drop down fair if you approach him and then wave dash back. this at least puts him on the ground.

 

[DerfMidWest]

throwing nana at him is also always and option if you want to intercept his fairs

 

[DerfMidWest]

Does anyone have any advice for the Link mu?
I wreck almost every link I run into because they are bad, but then Stro pushed my poo when I played him back in 2013.
I seemed to have a lot of trouble dealing with projectiles, especially the boomerang, and wasn't able to get close to him very easily at all. I remember trying to stay close enough to him that he couldn't pull bombs or projectiles safely, but still give myself room to avoid his dumb upB and stuff.
Now that I've gotten a lot better and faster than I was when I played him last, I'm curious to see how I'd do now, but I still really have no grasp of the link MU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMrV1o-SCmM

 

[Binx]

I havent played a ton of good links but to me its all about avoiding the projectiles and forcing guessing games on him. Link's punish game isnt that good so you can just avoid projectiles until you are in a position to do a wavedash approach or a grab jab grab or something like that. Also all of his aerials are dash dance grabbable I believe if you space well unless he does them retreating. Similar to marth if you corner him you can hit him when he tries to jump over you as long as you dont give him time to dair.

 

[Binx]

also I just watched the vid of you vs link, there were a lot of times he hit your shield with an up b and you fubbled a wavedash smash or grab punish, if you would have just hit all of those you would have done significantly better and possibly won.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yeah that video is old now, I've tightened up my tech game and I'm a lot faster than I was then.
Also stro is a veeery good link. People don't even know.

 

[Binx]

I'm just saying that even though it looked like he was winning by quite a bit if you would have just changed that one thing I think you could have maybe won. I think you were doing things *mostly* correctly as far as the match up is concerned. I think if you avoid the projectiles better and just wavedash forward smash and wavedash grab a lot that Link lacks the tools to really deal with it unless he predicts you very accurately. If you shield the up b just wavedash punish and that will go a long way. But like any other matchup just try not to get hit bait him into situations where he has to guess and you can rack up damage.

Does anyone have tips on how to edgeguard link? the only thing I can think of is if you predict exactly where and when he would want to hookshot and hit him with an iceblock but even then you might not be able to grab the ledge in time to stop the up b. I might just grab the ledge and do a nair onto the stage and just hope for a lucky tag until I figure out something better.

 

[choknater]

to edge guard link, time ice blocks

or a well timed fsmash if u wanna play risky like that. usually doesn't work though if he's recovering well



soooo

i can't do the double forward blizzard. i'm full hop blizzarding with popo, and mashing buttons with nana, but she always does the back blizzard. what do i need to do to ensure she does what i want? does the popo blizzard have to be really early or something? or late? does it work in all versions?

@Fly_Amanita

edit: oops the video shows popo short hopping... still can't get the timing though

edit: OMG I GOT IT. k thanks fly LOL

 

[Smasher89]

The thing i find the hardest with that technique is to get nana to get a high shorthop, short shorthops covers too little space for blizzard imo.

The slopes on yoshis are wierd, sometimes when i wd up towards the stage nana desynchs and jumps up to the platform, sometimes not. If it can be figured out I guess it might be useful against characters that that has a good jump from the ledge like falcon and ganon, to have good control over that zone in that situation, without really commiting more then a wd backwards which is a good option anyway.

 

[Iceman]

I've seen Fly Amanita do a downthrow- charged Fsmash to a regrab. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1evP2NeTZY If you go 9:25 in this video you can see it. Does anyone know how this works?

 

[cemo]

They see the f-smash charging so they won't DI away. I haven't practiced it myself I imagine you are just trying to grab them during the hitlag of the f-smash, before they fly away.

 

[Smasher89]

Writing this as a reminder so ill work on learning if it can be done more efficently.

I want to desynch Nana, so she is in front of me, sliding towards me and both climbers are uptilting, making a groundwall similar to spikes in other games(fox jumps down, gets hit and punished by either one of them).
2 multihitmoves on the ground covering alot of space feels like its a good thing that also has less lag then commiting to other stuff, while also probably is good for fishing lands with hitboxes that are out longer.

I kinda get the effect im working towards with dash back, forward(for nana to get a distance), then slightly holding back to get nana out of her dashlag then up>tilt

That way doesnt feel to practical since it requires 2 very sligth tilts and a timing that is not desynching the climbers.
Can anyone of you get it down

 

[DerfMidWest]

I use dash canceled utilts out of the dash-dance desync. Since popo can't crouch in his initial dash, you can do it in your pivot, and nana will dash cancel utilt, so she is in front of you, but slides back in towards you.

 

[cemo]

We need more conversation topics, or something. How's everyone been progressing lately, and what are you trying to add to your game?

I'm still losing to Ganons up here, but things have been improving. I'd like to add pivot f-tilts but that's going slowly, and I'm trying to be a bit more proactive in my taking space. I got the honour of getting wrecked by Hbox a couple weeks ago and he just completely set the pace so I'm looking at trying to be more proactive in positioning and move placement to combat that in the future. It's fun playing a top player, you can learn a lot.

 

[Binx]

I've been trying to study old wobbles videos especially stuff from evo. His neutral game is really incredible, the way he follows up off uairs and dairs in various ways is crazy. I'm trying to just work on my neutral aerial game and trying to push people off the edge, also I spent a very long time avoiding chain grabs and stuff so I'm trying to improve those so that my punish game is stronger.

Finals are coming up though so havent had as much time to play as I'd like to.

 

[Smasher89]

I got second at a tournament this weekend with some of swedens best players. Had some interesting sets and played good mostly during the tournament. Beat some players which i respect alot and got desynching into a more central part of my game.

Got a random nana fsmash on left side ys(i was at right side) which hit a falco to be the setup for a wobble, so basicly played at the level i imagine ICs should be playing so im happy to getting better at playing with the characters potencial which has yet to develop alot more.

Oh, and peoples reactions to wobbling should definitly get a compilationthread or video. During friendlies people picked up and dropped like their cellphone, controller and probably more things, just because they for some reason picked it up when i got wobbling set up, then i smashed at like 60% since they did put down the controller, and then the panic reactionto try to survive, but holding something else then the controller for no reason lol,

Oh, i also got some wierd punish against peach, clinched jab with her dsmash, got grab afterwards, any idea if thats legit?

 

[Hands]

been screwing around with the dthrow-utilt CG. works on Ganon, still trying to find out other victims. info would be appreciated

 

[DerfMidWest]

works on a lot of the heavy characters (falcon, dk, bowser, etc.). it'll work on spacies too.
but It's possible to SDI out of it pretty easily, so it's not my favorite cg. a cool mix up though, and you can always follow up the utilt if they sdi out.

 

[cemo]

i just stick with like, dthrow dair, dthrow fair, dthrow nair, and dthrow upsmash (for spacies) depending on what i want to accomplish. dthrow uptilt is neat but really easy to di out of. i can see its value as a mixup but i don't feel it's worth experimenting with for very long.

i use a couple mixups but otherwise my grab game is a bit simple. i will probably start trying to get more optimal punishes on them later, i just think my neutral game still needs a bit of work before I can compete properly with top players.

 

[Hands]

in all honesty i didn't think it would be all that useful in my main arsenal of CGs in the first place, i was just trying to expand my knowledge of CGs. i only plan to use it as a mixup anyway. thanks guys

 

[MaPow]

I'm trying to learn the hand-off, and i sort of have it down but i run into the problem of not really knowing how many times nana will pummel after she regrabs. Is there a way to determine that? (I'm very new to ICs btw)

 

[Tuesday]

No, there's no way. You just have to regrab on reaction to the forward throw. But she does a nice little wind-up so you have a bit of warning.

 

[Hands]

that's why i get hype every time i have a successful handoff because it's hard for me to react on nana's throw lmao

 

[cemo]

I had a lot more success with it when I read Wobble's advice of timing it with when Nana brings her hammer forward, so there's that. The more you look for her f-throw windup/do it the easier it will be to react to. brain power!

 

[Hands]

like after the swing, or as she's bringing it forward?

 

[cemo]

I think you want to time the grab to come out right after the hammer is brought forward, but I can't test at the moment. It's a good visual cue though, so just look for it next time you're practicing.

 

[MaPow]

I input the grab right when nana or popo rears their hammer back, but I can never do it quick enough when nana pummels 0 times.