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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
It's retarted really. think of there chain throws like this. end of throw is here nana uses _____ hit stun and doesn't knock them far you get a grab. Really look around youtube or mess around with there throws for a bit you will learn things. really there is a lot to learn for them
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
Ok I really like, no love ice climbers! Any quick tips I should remember? I will be reading the guide, but this would help. Like post it notes. (because I probaly won't have time to read the whole thing now cuz of CLASS ;p)
But yeah. I love just having nana do stuff randomly and help me just set up something hahahahaha.
But yeah. I love just having nana do stuff randomly and help me just set up something hahahahaha.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Fox/Falco
D-throw, sh d-air (Nana), run forward and regrab.* Escapable with smash DI down/away.
U-throw, dash attack (Popo, assuming DI away), regrab. Varies with DI, platforms can get in the way.
B-throw, wavedash grab (Nana). Only works on Fox.
Some more obscure grab combos are d-throw -> ice block (Nana), and d-throw -> f-air launchbox (Nana). Both only work to medium %s.
Falcon/Ganon
D-throw, reverse d-air (Nana jumps past them so they fly backwards), turnaround regrab. Hard to escape, but can be done with smash DI up. If they do, you can just d-throw regrab to try to scare them out of it.
Ganon/Sheik/Pikachu/Roy/others
D-throw, chase the DI and regrab. You can throw in a d-smash for extra damage, this is unescapable to a certain % when each character can jump out or land on a platform. If they DI to the edge, you can edge cg to death.
*D-throw d-air works on any character, but most characters (depending on floatiness) can escape with regular DI. The easiest way for floaties to escape is DI up, so a good DI mix-up is d-throw -> reverse d-air -> u-tilt -> b-air. You can also try to take advantage and kill them with a non-DI'd u-smash.
D-throw -> u-smash is a good DI mix-up on fastfallers' escape DI. They'll DI away and you can follow up with dash attack or grab.
Edit -- Didn't type fast enough. x.x
D-throw, sh d-air (Nana), run forward and regrab.* Escapable with smash DI down/away.
U-throw, dash attack (Popo, assuming DI away), regrab. Varies with DI, platforms can get in the way.
B-throw, wavedash grab (Nana). Only works on Fox.
Some more obscure grab combos are d-throw -> ice block (Nana), and d-throw -> f-air launchbox (Nana). Both only work to medium %s.
Falcon/Ganon
D-throw, reverse d-air (Nana jumps past them so they fly backwards), turnaround regrab. Hard to escape, but can be done with smash DI up. If they do, you can just d-throw regrab to try to scare them out of it.
Ganon/Sheik/Pikachu/Roy/others
D-throw, chase the DI and regrab. You can throw in a d-smash for extra damage, this is unescapable to a certain % when each character can jump out or land on a platform. If they DI to the edge, you can edge cg to death.
*D-throw d-air works on any character, but most characters (depending on floatiness) can escape with regular DI. The easiest way for floaties to escape is DI up, so a good DI mix-up is d-throw -> reverse d-air -> u-tilt -> b-air. You can also try to take advantage and kill them with a non-DI'd u-smash.
D-throw -> u-smash is a good DI mix-up on fastfallers' escape DI. They'll DI away and you can follow up with dash attack or grab.
Edit -- Didn't type fast enough. x.x
Finch
Smash Lord
Dthrow dair works on everyone in the cast as long as you time it right and they don't DI up. For some characters like luigi the timing is kind of hard and it you don't short hop it they will nair you. If they DI up they will nair you too, so it's safer to just dthrow upsmash him. For spacies and maybe a few more characters this should be inescapable.
Reverse Dthrow dair works on a lot of the cast but not all of it. It's easier to get floaties with it though since it's harder to know where to DI to escape it. For falcon, ganon, DK, maybe some other characters that I haven't tried it on, it's inescapable. For Samus, Marth, Peach, etc. it's escapable if they DI up. This won't work on small characters like spacies or pikachu unless you just got the grab and nana is still a bit in front of you from her grab animation.
Handoff is the only other legit cg. All the others are just silly and only work like once if they DI a certain way.
Reverse Dthrow dair works on a lot of the cast but not all of it. It's easier to get floaties with it though since it's harder to know where to DI to escape it. For falcon, ganon, DK, maybe some other characters that I haven't tried it on, it's inescapable. For Samus, Marth, Peach, etc. it's escapable if they DI up. This won't work on small characters like spacies or pikachu unless you just got the grab and nana is still a bit in front of you from her grab animation.
Handoff is the only other legit cg. All the others are just silly and only work like once if they DI a certain way.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Let's talk about Brinstar and Mute City. Those are the only stages I'm really uncomfortable on nowadays.
Actually, I might only hate Mute since I never play against anybody aside from Peach there. Still, I really dislike the stage.
Actually, I might only hate Mute since I never play against anybody aside from Peach there. Still, I really dislike the stage.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Mute City has several parts that are really big giving room to space well.
And the whole draw back of getting edge guarded becuae of no ledges isnt that bad, because we can use that against our opponents too.
And the whole draw back of getting edge guarded becuae of no ledges isnt that bad, because we can use that against our opponents too.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I mostly just get ***** by the cars. I think I do fine on the car-less sections for the most part.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Brinstar is no fun though, you are right.
I dont feel I can move well with the uneven ground.
I dont feel I can move well with the uneven ground.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Icys just blow on Mute and Brinstar. That's what secondaries are for. 
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I was gunna say I second Jigs so Im like YAAAAY brinstar and mute, but that isnt productive for this conversation.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
At the last tourney I went to, where I had a bracket full of Jigglypuffs and Peaches, I just started banning Brinstar and bringing out my ****ty Marth on Mute. I really don't want to continue this trend, though; I think there's a correlation between me hitting walls and relying more on secondaries.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Some match ups are that bad, and when coupled with your opponents counterpick, it makes a matchup almost un-winable. I dont think there is any shame with having a counterpick for specific matchups on specific levels.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
I've been focusing more on secondaries recently because Peach is beginning to seem less and less beatable. Supposedly d-smash is the only move that you can punish, but for some reason punishing d-smash the hardest part of the match-up for me.
I don't have trouble reading her float game -- reacting to different float heights, figuring out when she's jumping/landing and when it's safe to jab -- or her turnip game, or most of her approaches. But d-smash completely tears me apart. Any Peach player can give me trouble just by spamming d-smash at the right times, and whenever I think I can punish it I end up running into something stupid like spotdodge more d-smash.
I don't have trouble reading her float game -- reacting to different float heights, figuring out when she's jumping/landing and when it's safe to jab -- or her turnip game, or most of her approaches. But d-smash completely tears me apart. Any Peach player can give me trouble just by spamming d-smash at the right times, and whenever I think I can punish it I end up running into something stupid like spotdodge more d-smash.
Kyu: Well, that's the thing about the peach matchup. Many times you wind up with those coin-toss situations where if you call something wrong, you eat a d-smash and then Nana dies. Of course, if you're CG'ing well then the Peach will die if *you* get it right, so it's pretty vicious for both parties.
As for Mute and Brinstar, I recommend practicing on them a LOT
Most people don't touch them except when they get counterpicked in tournament--and that counts for the Peaches and Puffs as well.
Honestly, I kind of LIKE fighting Peach on Mute simply because she doesn't get edges, so you can grab her from up+b when she recovers. Not only that, half the time the level is like a miniature FD. Plus, since she'll always just float out and n-air or f-air you when you go for the edge *anyhow*, you never really have one to begin with.
As for Brinstar:
Pros:
--Slopes give you interesting wavedash spacing mixups.
--Lava can sometimes save Nana from bad gimps; she bounces around and might not make it back but she can still be distracting.
--Harder to edgeguard other people normally because of the hitbox stalling obstacles on the sides.
--Dsmashes last forever in the middle
--Lots of delicious places to handoff.
--At the sides of the stage the edges are kind of close for good smash finishers.
Cons:
--Being stuck on the top platform is crappy when the level rises, especially against Peach Puff.
--Lava can interrupt chaingrabs.
--Slopes potentially de-sync Nana even on normal wavedashes.
--Easy to get stuck in the middle part when you wavedash.
First con is usually solved by trying to trick your opponent with your forward+b and aerial maneuvering. It's not perfect, but getting pushed into the lava isn't really great either. Second, if you learn the initial lava patterns you can turn this into a pro with d-throw f-air. Let them tech and get hit by the lava while you take to the higher platforms, potentially landing more grabs and hits; it's not as good as a full zero-to-death CG but it's still nice and looks pretty cool. For the third, spend most of the match pretending you've only got Popo anyhow, and use more dash-dances and rolls for your general maneuvering. For four, just mess around in training mode and get a feel for how the middle part deforms when it gets hit.
Most of the cons are solvable with experience and stage awareness. You can still get screwed over but it's the kind of stuff that also hurts your opponent, so if you're paying attention you can force them into those spots as well. I think Brinstar is actually really fun to play on. I guess I'm crazy, I just haven't lost a match on Mute or Brinstar in a long while because I play there more than most of my opponents.
As for Mute and Brinstar, I recommend practicing on them a LOT
Most people don't touch them except when they get counterpicked in tournament--and that counts for the Peaches and Puffs as well.Honestly, I kind of LIKE fighting Peach on Mute simply because she doesn't get edges, so you can grab her from up+b when she recovers. Not only that, half the time the level is like a miniature FD. Plus, since she'll always just float out and n-air or f-air you when you go for the edge *anyhow*, you never really have one to begin with.
As for Brinstar:
Pros:
--Slopes give you interesting wavedash spacing mixups.
--Lava can sometimes save Nana from bad gimps; she bounces around and might not make it back but she can still be distracting.
--Harder to edgeguard other people normally because of the hitbox stalling obstacles on the sides.
--Dsmashes last forever in the middle
--Lots of delicious places to handoff.
--At the sides of the stage the edges are kind of close for good smash finishers.
Cons:
--Being stuck on the top platform is crappy when the level rises, especially against Peach Puff.
--Lava can interrupt chaingrabs.
--Slopes potentially de-sync Nana even on normal wavedashes.
--Easy to get stuck in the middle part when you wavedash.
First con is usually solved by trying to trick your opponent with your forward+b and aerial maneuvering. It's not perfect, but getting pushed into the lava isn't really great either. Second, if you learn the initial lava patterns you can turn this into a pro with d-throw f-air. Let them tech and get hit by the lava while you take to the higher platforms, potentially landing more grabs and hits; it's not as good as a full zero-to-death CG but it's still nice and looks pretty cool. For the third, spend most of the match pretending you've only got Popo anyhow, and use more dash-dances and rolls for your general maneuvering. For four, just mess around in training mode and get a feel for how the middle part deforms when it gets hit.
Most of the cons are solvable with experience and stage awareness. You can still get screwed over but it's the kind of stuff that also hurts your opponent, so if you're paying attention you can force them into those spots as well. I think Brinstar is actually really fun to play on. I guess I'm crazy, I just haven't lost a match on Mute or Brinstar in a long while because I play there more than most of my opponents.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
hey wobbles don't forget about the freeze frames when you hit stuff it slows the game down letting you input more B's when side Bing. Can make a fair differece. which is why sometimes I don't know if I should try to hit my foe or not to and sometimes they aren't fast enough and get jabed or d-smashed
Actually, from what *I've* noticed, if you hit something and try to input B during the hitlag it doesn't count. This can throw off your timing and make you sink if you connect with somebody while squalling. You have to actually slow down your taps if you want to continue rising.
This is what's happened to me, anyhow.
This is what's happened to me, anyhow.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I once thit someone and they were stuck in it a for a little and I when higher than normal for me. I just figured if the game slowed you presss more B's
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Lol, Carzy. According to what Wobbles is saying, then, you must be mashing B pretty slowly in order for the hitlag to have actually improved your distance.
In all honesty I'm not sure how it works. It's kind of a guess, I just notice that I sink a lot when I hit people with the squall; recently I started accounting for the stun and I've been keeping my height.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
just hit b 60 times per second and you don't have to worry about it.
PB&J
Smash Hero
i was wondering what the deal was..thanks wobbles
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
oh well if I,m slow I,m slow, funny I play melee, because everything esle is like SLLLOOOOOOWWWW DDOOOOWWWWNNNNN AANNNNDDDD TTTAAAKKKEEEEEE YOOOUUUURRRRRR MMMMMEEEEDDDDSSSSS. I,m like F*** you and run 3 miles while there at AANNNN. And I,m like F*** man you should play MEELLEEEE!!!! But their head explodes from awesomeness and guts everywhere and it's like oh F*** I can't do time they don't play melee there.
But yeah I,m slow(ish) to the side-B thing I can't go wobbles high
. (i don't really have meds but many people said they should put me on them)
But yeah I,m slow(ish) to the side-B thing I can't go wobbles high
. (i don't really have meds but many people said they should put me on them)
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I wish Wobbles and Chu could do a fusion.
That would be sooo ****.
That would be sooo ****.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
yeah that would be the best of both. Really somekind of de-synce monser would be cool to. like they would de-synce autocanceled bairs and stuff.
Hey any advice I haven't been able to play for 2 weeks and it only took maybe a hour to get my tech skill for everyone esle back in check which sucked because for some reason I no longer wanted to SHFFL with X anymore and I when with the stick. But my ice climbers suck so bad now I can't do the chain throws worth S*** and my de-synce won't work and I can't wavedash back on the stage anymore. I freakin hate it. when ever I can't play melee my ice climber turn to S*** and if anything everyone esle gets a little better heck I haven't been playing and I was able to get a 3 knee combo and make my pichu super smooth and make my falco at least decent at pillaring.
I know I have to much going on for me but I love 90% of the cast and the ice climbers can't get any love for some reason. I know what I want for them but I can't for some reason. And their the only charcter I play as I don't mind game with and I focus more on them because I have watch nana and watch my timing for things. any advice on how to keep my skill? I love them so much I have had to start all over again from step 1 so many times. At least 5 times I,ve had to start over for just them tech skill wise and many small break downs.
And wouldn't they SH farther if they wd than run? like how falcon junps farther when he runs.
Hey any advice I haven't been able to play for 2 weeks and it only took maybe a hour to get my tech skill for everyone esle back in check which sucked because for some reason I no longer wanted to SHFFL with X anymore and I when with the stick. But my ice climbers suck so bad now I can't do the chain throws worth S*** and my de-synce won't work and I can't wavedash back on the stage anymore. I freakin hate it. when ever I can't play melee my ice climber turn to S*** and if anything everyone esle gets a little better heck I haven't been playing and I was able to get a 3 knee combo and make my pichu super smooth and make my falco at least decent at pillaring.
I know I have to much going on for me but I love 90% of the cast and the ice climbers can't get any love for some reason. I know what I want for them but I can't for some reason. And their the only charcter I play as I don't mind game with and I focus more on them because I have watch nana and watch my timing for things. any advice on how to keep my skill? I love them so much I have had to start all over again from step 1 so many times. At least 5 times I,ve had to start over for just them tech skill wise and many small break downs.
And wouldn't they SH farther if they wd than run? like how falcon junps farther when he runs.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Yea I feel like you get a small momentum boost to your SH when you wavedash. I don't know if it's just a myth or not, though.
I haven't played Icees in so long.
I'm dumb. I've been playing too much of the top tiers. Need to work on mai iceez.
I haven't played Icees in so long.
I'm dumb. I've been playing too much of the top tiers. Need to work on mai iceez.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
how do i fight against IC's as fox or Falcon.
i always lose to the same IC's at every local I go to <_<
i always lose to the same IC's at every local I go to <_<
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Shine a lot with Fox. A running shine is obnoxiously hard for ICs to punish. Bairs are also hard to punish and sitting on platforms is usually pretty safe.
Falcon just knees a lot and sometimes raptor boosts when it's safe. Don't be afraid to grab shielding ICs, too.
edit: Could you give more specific problems?
Falcon just knees a lot and sometimes raptor boosts when it's safe. Don't be afraid to grab shielding ICs, too.
edit: Could you give more specific problems?
Ballistics
Smash Champion
And the lord said let it be done, and he named the creature uber ice, because he saw that it was good.
watch mango (falcon) vs ICs vids. he like knees to weaken shield, then Side Bs for a gaurentteed hit. As fox, U need to shine a ton. i don't know much about the match-up, i just play ICs. Oh, and don't run into Dash attacks and utilts
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Lol. So true. That kid is a monster.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Well crap once I get my ice climber tech skill back I want to try going all out de-synces(other than fighting campers) and juggles or grabs if they happen. I know that has some flaws and I will suck really bad at first but I just hate being boring as the ice climbers I get all kinds of crazy ideas that sound fun but I never get to use them. And I could do a moving de-synce like if you waveland your de-synced if you time it I don't know the timeing for a fact but I know it's do able. That and for the ice climbers I don't use my mind nearly as much as anyone esle I play as because I,m to focused on keeping up my flow and trying to keep my cool.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
It's nice to see UberIce getting more recognition.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Falcon is tough. Difficult to grab him. And knee ***** your shield. Not to mention, once Nana is separated, Popo is a very comboable weight.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Not at all. When he knees your shield just get away from him as quickly as possible. Knee on shield doesn't guarantee him anything as long as it doesn't poke because you shielded late or something. If he tries to raptor boost and you don't shield grab, you get a free stock.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I mean knee eats your shield. Like you lose a third of the full shield bubble from a knee. And the next one will shield poke you (I suck at light shielding).
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
I guess. I try to refrain from shielding vs Falcon. You can hold him off with u-airs and b-airs; when he overwhelms you or you want to create distance, shield can act as a reset button. If you play patiently and don't leave yourself open it's not a difficult match-up by any means. It only takes one or two moves to lead into a grab, and the moves you need to land happen to be pretty good against Falcon.
He also shouldn't be able to recover against you; it's easy to cover all of his options. If you stand facing away away from the ledge, you can edgehog/d-smash on reaction. If he techs the first d-smash you have another guaranteed d-smash unless he sweetspots. If he recovers up and over there is room for error, but b-air still beats his recovery.
B-air -> d-smash is unpunishable on his shield, and for some reason Falcon players tend jump into the d-smash. Reverse d-air is pretty hard to escape; I only know one person who escapes it consistently and he doesn't main Falcon (none of the top falcons besides m2k are good at escaping it). Anyways, I wish people would explain why they think he beats ICs without linking me to ancient vids. It's one of my favorite match-ups.
He also shouldn't be able to recover against you; it's easy to cover all of his options. If you stand facing away away from the ledge, you can edgehog/d-smash on reaction. If he techs the first d-smash you have another guaranteed d-smash unless he sweetspots. If he recovers up and over there is room for error, but b-air still beats his recovery.
B-air -> d-smash is unpunishable on his shield, and for some reason Falcon players tend jump into the d-smash. Reverse d-air is pretty hard to escape; I only know one person who escapes it consistently and he doesn't main Falcon (none of the top falcons besides m2k are good at escaping it). Anyways, I wish people would explain why they think he beats ICs without linking me to ancient vids. It's one of my favorite match-ups.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Is SS vs. Wobbles too ancient for you?
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
For one thing Wobbles' emotions definitely played a role in the outcome. He also made plenty of mistakes. At any rate that set is not an accurate representation of the match-up.
'Explain' is the key word. Referencing random sets doesn't constitute the analysis of a match-up.
'Explain' is the key word. Referencing random sets doesn't constitute the analysis of a match-up.