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Social General Ice Climber Chat

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
My general feeling is that ICs are much better suited to defensive gameplay than aggressive gameplay. Their approaches aren't bad per se, but most good characters can deal with them pretty easily if they see them coming, so ICs kind of have to approach sparingly. ICs also just have more tools for shutting down approaches than they do for approaching; for example, the majority of their useful desynchs have extremely limited applications for approaching, but are good for discouraging the opponent from rushing in, baiting the opponent into approaching when it isn't safe, and punishing ground-based approaches.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
this is why i find it difficult to enjoy them as a character lately! sigh i've always liked being aggressive, but as usual i find defense far more useful in matches.

slowly leaning toward maining peach, believe it or not...

however, that won't happen until my peach gets at a level equal to or better than my ic's, which is not happening anytime soon.
 

Laijin

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
5,848
Location
Rylai the Crystal Maiden's Igloo
An aggressive ICies would be easier to fight. Ice Climbers are very easy to kill/deal damage to when their airborn. They practically have almost no defense once in the air. So camping a platform and against an aggro player...easy mode. :)
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
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27,296
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Modesto, CA
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choknater
haha, its not so much NOT approaching as it is finding the right times to strike back. this is what makes fly very good
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Mmm... last night I was having a crisis of the same thing. Playing against Peach and Falcon as my primary practice sources kinda does that to you.

The thing is, your pressure isn't going to come from your moves but from your positioning. Resisting the urge to use attacks and to aggress the other guy with a slow and steady encroachment on their safe zones is how you pressure them, compared to characters who rush down shields with stuns and safe aerials.

So I still like to be aggressive, I just don't attack when I do it. Does that even make any sense?
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
That makes a lot of sense. As ICs, getting where you need to be often takes priority over attacking, especially when you have little to gain and a lot to lose from whiffing a laggy attack.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
I approached a lot until I became good at Brawl. True story.

Anyways, ICs might not be well-suited for rushing in blindly, but they're still very good at applying pressure. I don't approach often, but I usually try to be close enough to my opponent for him/her to be uncomfortable. I suppose you could categorize that as aggression; it's really just an issue of semantics.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
I like to wavedash and dash dance within extreme proximity of my opponent a lot. I'll even wavedash or run through him a lot. I just like to see what he does under pressure. I don't care if I get hit once or twice. The information that I gain is invaluable for the rest of the set.
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
Had to get something up against Peach, I feel alot that it´s a key matchup to win in in order to gain higher placings in tournaments and it really is time to step up and beat that earilier "close to free win character", desynch seem to actually fit really well since peach is kinda slow and have to space her fair or stick to her projectile to put pressure on ICs without getting grabbed.


Why I think they actually suit better then any other character to in a way play more offensive is mainly desynch, and by that I mean Nana charging fsmash as a kind of approach/pressure (in a similar way Marth´s uses his dtilt like I´ve mentioned earilier).

That combined with waveshield or just spacing the opponents moves as Popo while the opponent gets pressured, it´s still safe used correcly and can hit the opponent.

Possibly even possible to react and dashgrab them in their hitstun from the fsmash and then do massive damage in alot of ways.
It's just very different for every matchup if desynch is easy to mantain or not, and keeping Nana on the stage.





But I agree that some defensive game is needed, or like I often say at tournaments, theres no offensive game that don´t come from defensive positions, so "offensive play" kinda is just an illusion, or can anyone prove that to be wrong? (would really like to know if theres even a game/sport that benefits offensive play, I guess technical play is a way of calling it offensive since there can be risk in execution, and good reward if maintaining it well)

Actually Armada once proved that to be wrong, it´s in the first teamsset against Mango and Lucky from Apex, sacrificing himself to get one on one situation(taking lucky with him) against Mango, it got them the win too.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
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Dec 25, 2002
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Modesto, CA
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choknater
well i mean, there are just times that a character can push the odds in their favor to win by getting better positioning. sometimes that's by using an attack, sometimes it's by slowing down the game, sometimes it's by getting better positioning. examples:

attack: falco's shl, peach's turnip
slowing down: luigi's jumps, puff's wop, samus' wd back
positioning: ic's movements, fox's platform camping, marth's uthrow beneath platforms

and many more examples. offense/defense are not mutually exclusive in melee, just depends on the matchup and situation. i think the idea here is that in order to beat peach we need to maximize our defensive options by using things like wd back, ice blocks, and other things to not let her in.

and the first way to do that is by suppressing our impulses to approach, and fixing our bad reactions to wd in when we can't actually punish what she did...

easier said than done!!!
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
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Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
LOL nah man, just do ur job. namesearching too good

imma try that copy past namesearch summoning thing again

KUCHIYOSE NO JUTSU


choknater, !Callum!, $up@ N0v@, *P*L*U*R*, -ACE-, -Andy-, -Dourin-x-, -Jumpman-, -Vocal-, 0shadowkai0, 69%, 718_ROOKI3, Acherontic, Aethelwulf, Allied, Alukard, andilex, Atrion, B0NK, b7b8, BarDulL, BeatStick, Bgeller, bGin, BigD!!!, bigman40, BKupa666, Black Mantis, Black Waltz, Blacknight99923, Blubolouis, BooM TX, brickbox, Brightside6382, Bryan500, Bullet Bill, C!Z, castorpollux, Chaos Swordsman, Cheeri-Oats, chillindude829, Circa, ClinkStryphart, CloneHat, Cobalt, Codi, Composer, Cook, crismas, Crystalnite, Dajayman, Dark 3nergy, DarkDragoon, darkm3tr01d, Darth Rancorous, Dazwa, ddiz, defsithe, Dekuschrub, Denti, denwo, DevilKiller, DLA, DoH, Dojo, Dre the Ace, ds22, DumberChild, DusK-The-Stray, Dynomite, Eazy23, eighteenspikes, etecoon, Eternal Yoshi, Evil-Guy, EWC, Falco400, Flame Hyenard, FlipX, fOof, Frown, fUddO, fZk, g2g4gold, Gah777, Gaia_x, Gamegenie222+, Geist, General_Zod, Gova, Grandeza, GreatFalco, Grizzmeister, GwJumpman, Hao, Hazygoose, hemightbegiant, Hot_ArmS, iamthemicrowave, Idea, ihavespaceballs, Iliad, Iron Dragon, IYM!, Jake13, JamesE, Jolteon, Jono, jpak, JPeGImage, Junahu, justaway12, Jynnantonix, J_M, Kada, KageMurphy, Kappy, Kaptain, Keatsta, keeper, Keitaro, KenniSpam!, Kewkky, kid_in_da_hat, KirbyKaze, Kishiru, KittycatAyume, KORNNNNN~, KoRoBeNiKi, Koru Barton, Krystedez, ks0ccergk, KTH, Kuraudo, L-J, LanceStern, Leaf., leelue, leffen, Linkshot, lucassassin, Luigi player, Luigitoilet, L_Cancel, M0nkUn1t, makoforce, mariomariofan, MarKO X, MasterShake, MasterWarlord, Melody, metalmonstar, MetalMusicMan, MikeHaggarTHAKJB, Mogwai, Mokumo, Monkley6, moogle, moosehunter, mr.fizwidget, mzink*, Nabe, NamiNami, NovaSmash, ORLY, Oukashi, Paju, Pakman, PaNiC!, Peachkid, PentaSalia, Phiddlesticks, Plan 9, Player-4, Pluplue, Poltergust, Pr0jecT, Prawn, Professor Pro, pwiito, Pwneroni, Qaomen, Quic, R00R, Rabbi Nevins, Radiowar, Rajam, rapidtransit247, Rat, Raziek, Razmakazi, Reaver197, Red Ryu, rhan, RoanYagyu, Rockettrainer, Ron, Roneblaster, Ronike, Rubberbandman, Rubyiris, ruhtraeel, Rutger, S0L3R, Sage JoWii, Salevits, sasook., Seikend, shanus, Sharkz, Shaya, Shears, Shift, ShiftingShadows28, Shroomed, Signia, SilentVerse, SkylerSilver, Slaps, Slashy, SleepyK, smasher4roy, smashkng, SNG, SNPR, SNTRL, Sosuke+, Ssonic, standardtoaster, stelzig, Sterowent, Stevo, stopNstart, Sudai, Summonedfist, SupaSairentoZ7, SuperTH, Super_Smash_Kid, tacoz42, Takao9411, Tamoo, tarmacker, Teh-Shlurpie, Tele, Tesh, The Demi-Peach, The Real Gamer, The Star King, TheReflexWonder, TheSaintKai, TheTantalus, TheUltimateKoopa, Thunderhorse+, Timerbomb, TKbro, TKila, tmw_redcell, Tommy_G, Tope, Triple R, tw1n, Ugg, Underload, Ussi, UsurperKingZant, vato_break, verge, Vermanubis, ViciousEnd, victra♥+, Vts+, VueBrawler, vVv ChiboSempai, Wave⁂, WedginatorX, What's The Point, WhiteOblv, Wiscus, Wretched, X1-12, xFats, XkaruX, xxmoosexx, yeldarB, Yikarur, Yomi-no-Kuni, Yoshiken96, Young Deezy, Z'zgashi, Zen, Zero_Gamer, Zigsta, ZMT
 

*P*L*U*R*

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,143
Location
Dance to express, not impress!
*namesearches*

Okay, that's a lie.

Sup, guys?

I haven't played in a while but I may or may not be going to a tournament this weekend. I wanna experiment and try a bunch of new things.

This may or may not be recorded.



Also, does anyone in here play touhou hisoutensoku? Been trying to learn that lately. Would like someone to play against.
 

Vts

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
2,535
Location
Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
i can't name search my name is too short lol

idk why ICs are in a tier of there own they are bad make us with the rest of the bad characters :D

it gets lonely being alone with just popo he's kind of a ****
 

painlord k11

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
270
Location
Victoria, BC
hey guys I think im going to start using iceys in singles cause i gotta try something new. where should i start! I live in british columbia in canada........... we got good players in our PR and what not but there's no iceys, like no shieks, 1 marth on pr but like nothin basically. I basically main marth/shiek and im not quitting them just pickin up iceys for singles. since no 1 plays them here maybe they wont know how to fight them lol. advice please direct me to best threads ect
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
the stickied guides are the best threads to get started.......... :)

and this thread is pretty much the most active melee ic thread by far, where most current metagame discussion gets done
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
hey guys I think im going to start using iceys in singles cause i gotta try something new. where should i start! I live in british columbia in canada........... we got good players in our PR and what not but there's no iceys, like no shieks, 1 marth on pr but like nothin basically. I basically main marth/shiek and im not quitting them just pickin up iceys for singles. since no 1 plays them here maybe they wont know how to fight them lol. advice please direct me to best threads ect
How patient are you? I'm writing a MASSIVE ICs guide right now.

and this thread is pretty much the most active melee ic thread by far, where most current metagame discussion gets done
I recommend reading through this whole thread :)
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
LOL nah man, just do ur job. namesearching too good

imma try that copy past namesearch summoning thing again

KUCHIYOSE NO JUTSU


choknater, !Callum!, $up@ N0v@, *P*L*U*R*, -ACE-, -Andy-, -Dourin-x-, -Jumpman-, -Vocal-, 0shadowkai0, 69%, 718_ROOKI3, Acherontic, Aethelwulf, Allied, Alukard, andilex, Atrion, B0NK, b7b8, BarDulL, BeatStick, Bgeller, bGin, BigD!!!, bigman40, BKupa666, Black Mantis, Black Waltz, Blacknight99923, Blubolouis, BooM TX, brickbox, Brightside6382, Bryan500, Bullet Bill, C!Z, castorpollux, Chaos Swordsman, Cheeri-Oats, chillindude829, Circa, ClinkStryphart, CloneHat, Cobalt, Codi, Composer, Cook, crismas, Crystalnite, Dajayman, Dark 3nergy, DarkDragoon, darkm3tr01d, Darth Rancorous, Dazwa, ddiz, defsithe, Dekuschrub, Denti, denwo, DevilKiller, DLA, DoH, Dojo, Dre the Ace, ds22, DumberChild, DusK-The-Stray, Dynomite, Eazy23, eighteenspikes, etecoon, Eternal Yoshi, Evil-Guy, EWC, Falco400, Flame Hyenard, FlipX, fOof, Frown, fUddO, fZk, g2g4gold, Gah777, Gaia_x, Gamegenie222+, Geist, General_Zod, Gova, Grandeza, GreatFalco, Grizzmeister, GwJumpman, Hao, Hazygoose, hemightbegiant, Hot_ArmS, iamthemicrowave, Idea, ihavespaceballs, Iliad, Iron Dragon, IYM!, Jake13, JamesE, Jolteon, Jono, jpak, JPeGImage, Junahu, justaway12, Jynnantonix, J_M, Kada, KageMurphy, Kappy, Kaptain, Keatsta, keeper, Keitaro, KenniSpam!, Kewkky, kid_in_da_hat, KirbyKaze, Kishiru, KittycatAyume, KORNNNNN~, KoRoBeNiKi, Koru Barton, Krystedez, ks0ccergk, KTH, Kuraudo, L-J, LanceStern, Leaf., leelue, leffen, Linkshot, lucassassin, Luigi player, Luigitoilet, L_Cancel, M0nkUn1t, makoforce, mariomariofan, MarKO X, MasterShake, MasterWarlord, Melody, metalmonstar, MetalMusicMan, MikeHaggarTHAKJB, Mogwai, Mokumo, Monkley6, moogle, moosehunter, mr.fizwidget, mzink*, Nabe, NamiNami, NovaSmash, ORLY, Oukashi, Paju, Pakman, PaNiC!, Peachkid, PentaSalia, Phiddlesticks, Plan 9, Player-4, Pluplue, Poltergust, Pr0jecT, Prawn, Professor Pro, pwiito, Pwneroni, Qaomen, Quic, R00R, Rabbi Nevins, Radiowar, Rajam, rapidtransit247, Rat, Raziek, Razmakazi, Reaver197, Red Ryu, rhan, RoanYagyu, Rockettrainer, Ron, Roneblaster, Ronike, Rubberbandman, Rubyiris, ruhtraeel, Rutger, S0L3R, Sage JoWii, Salevits, sasook., Seikend, shanus, Sharkz, Shaya, Shears, Shift, ShiftingShadows28, Shroomed, Signia, SilentVerse, SkylerSilver, Slaps, Slashy, SleepyK, smasher4roy, smashkng, SNG, SNPR, SNTRL, Sosuke+, Ssonic, standardtoaster, stelzig, Sterowent, Stevo, stopNstart, Sudai, Summonedfist, SupaSairentoZ7, SuperTH, Super_Smash_Kid, tacoz42, Takao9411, Tamoo, tarmacker, Teh-Shlurpie, Tele, Tesh, The Demi-Peach, The Real Gamer, The Star King, TheReflexWonder, TheSaintKai, TheTantalus, TheUltimateKoopa, Thunderhorse+, Timerbomb, TKbro, TKila, tmw_redcell, Tommy_G, Tope, Triple R, tw1n, Ugg, Underload, Ussi, UsurperKingZant, vato_break, verge, Vermanubis, ViciousEnd, victra♥+, Vts+, VueBrawler, vVv ChiboSempai, Wave⁂, WedginatorX, What's The Point, WhiteOblv, Wiscus, Wretched, X1-12, xFats, XkaruX, xxmoosexx, yeldarB, Yikarur, Yomi-no-Kuni, Yoshiken96, Young Deezy, Z'zgashi, Zen, Zero_Gamer, Zigsta, ZMT
why would you go to the trouble of doing all of that holy crap lmfao
 
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