General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[finalark]

It's funny how people hate on the Gambit system saying you can just program it and walk away. As if past FFs outside of like... FFX (for a good while) actually required changing strategies from boss to boss..

This is actually a pretty good point, and something I never really thought of. In most FFs once you've figured out the optimal way to deal damage to a boss while keeping your party alive can just set your cursor to memory and then mash X until you win. Plus, what would the alternative to the gambit system be? Not being able to program your AI party members?

I definitely enjoy them trying some new things. I wouldn't want the gambit system in the new FF's, but it was a fun diversion. Now the paradigm system... *Shudders*

I liked the paradigm system. I thought the idea of shifting classes mid-battle to adapt to the situation was a really cool idea. I just wish FFXIII's combat hadn't been so reliant on the stagger mechanic. Which is a neat concept on paper, but in practice it meant every single battle in the game felt very samey.

 

[RetroBro]

This is actually a pretty good point, and something I never really thought of. In most FFs once you've figured out the optimal way to deal damage to a boss while keeping your party alive can just set your cursor to memory and then mash X until you win. Plus, what would the alternative to the gambit system be? Not being able to program your AI party members?

I see nothing but pluses for the gambit system. I mean they could've gone to the old classic turn based style somehow. I'm not sure how fond I am of FF15's active combat system. I wish Square-Enix would return to their roots. Plus I'm not really a fan of 4 metrosexual guys for our party T_T... I'll take any other character trope over them: Steiner, Quina(not even a trope), Cait Sith, Auron, Umaro, or A GIRL? I know there's the first female Cid, but whatever. I'm a bit apprehensive about FF15. It looks beautiful, just the characters... please give me some genuine charm..

I liked the paradigm system. I thought the idea of shifting classes mid-battle to adapt to the situation was a really cool idea. I just wish FFXIII's combat hadn't been so reliant on the stagger mechanic. Which is a neat concept on paper, but in practice it meant every single battle in the game felt very samey.

Actually, I think staggering is what bothered me most about the game. Find the weakness or pattern, and blow them up when they're staggered. Something just felt kinda off about it. Plus I really didn't like only being able to control one character. I just couldn't get into FF13 at all. Maybe I'll try again someday, but it put a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[finalark]

I see nothing but pluses for the gambit system. I mean they could've gone to the old classic turn based style somehow. I'm not sure how fond I am of FF15's active combat system. I wish Square-Enix would return to their roots. Plus I'm not really a fan of 4 metrosexual guys for our party T_T... I'll take any other character trope over them: Steiner, Quina(not even a trope), Cait Sith, Auron, Umaro, or A GIRL? I know there's the first female Cid, but whatever. I'm a bit apprehensive about FF15. It looks beautiful, just the characters... please give me some genuine charm..

I'm perfectly down for real time FF. IMO returning to roots is what Bravely Default is for. FF is a series about constantly evolving and trying new things. It would feel like a massive step backwards if they went back to old school turn based combat without doing anything significantly different with it.

I'm also perfectly down with the all-dude party. According to Nomura, FFXV's narrative focuses on the importance of men having close friends of the same gender. For as fanfic-fuelrific as that sounds, I think it's something that needs to seriously be addressed. So much media portrays manliness as being a stone-cold badass who doesn't need any of this "emotions" or "attachments." Plus there so much fear among certain groups that showing any sort of fondness for a member of the same sex makes you "gay" (because in some people's minds that the worst thing you can be for some reason). But in reality, having a close group of dudes you can just be yourself around and who will always support you no matter what is a very important aspect of a man's life that gets ignored frequently. As someone who has a very tight-nit group of friends who he's known since he was fifteen I can vouch for this. I applaud FFXV for having the courage to say "nothing is manly than showing your bros how much you love them by cooking them an awesome steak."

It's really late and that was really sloppy, but I hope my point gets through well enough.

Also, Quina is totally a trope. S/he's the weird non-human that joins your party and has little characterization outside of being weird and non-human. Kimahi from FFX, Mareg from Grandia II and Teddie from Persona 4 are all examples of this.

 

[Carrill]

I definitely enjoy them trying some new things. I wouldn't want the gambit system in the new FF's, but it was a fun diversion. Now the paradigm system... *Shudders*

I actually enjoy the paradigm system a whole lot. It was very strategic and it was a mechanic you could tell the game was carefully designed around. There were certain enemies in FFXIII that you absolutely had to use a certain paradigm against to beat.

 

[Minato]

This is actually a pretty good point, and something I never really thought of. In most FFs once you've figured out the optimal way to deal damage to a boss while keeping your party alive can just set your cursor to memory and then mash X until you win. Plus, what would the alternative to the gambit system be? Not being able to program your AI party members?

Basically. Nearly every random encounter can be dealt with by holding X. Any boss battle is about doing your best move and healing every so often. You didn't need to worry about MP usually, use buffs, etc. For any hard bosses, just leveling up and running the usual was good enough too.

I actually didn't like the Paradigm System that much. Wasn't bad for a game at all though, it just felt like a step back from the Gambit System imo. The game was easy enough to just auto battle your way through for regular encounters. XII, you'd at least come across harder enemies, and you might have to deal with a large mob before being able to safely heal to full health. XIII had a few good boss fights that would help the battle system shine though.

Spells were another thing. In Gambits, you wouldn't just pile on spells in your usual gambits. You still selected them and they felt pretty special. Learning Ruin, Fira, etc in XIII just felt like you did more damage or staggered better with more range. The best ones were probably the buffs.

As much flack as Gambits get, I had to manually select commands more often than I ever did in XIII.


FFXV, I don't mind them trying an all male party. Sure there's less diversity, but I think it's different from past FFs which is good enough for me. They already have a story for knowing each other and being in a party. So it's a little refreshing compared to just gathering new people to help save the world.

 

[RetroBro]

I'm perfectly down for real time FF. IMO returning to roots is what Bravely Default is for. FF is a series about constantly evolving and trying new things. It would feel like a massive step backwards if they went back to old school turn based combat without doing anything significantly different with it.

In the most recent years.. yeah FF has definitely been about evolving and trying new things. But up until FFX they didn't really change the turn based combat. If they did go back old school turn-based I would assume they'd do something very significant to spice it up. I guess Bravely Default is their answer for people like me. :O

I'm also perfectly down with the all-dude party. According to Nomura, FFXV's narrative focuses on the importance of men having close friends of the same gender. For as fanfic-fuelrific as that sounds, I think it's something that needs to seriously be addressed. So much media portrays manliness as being a stone-cold badass who doesn't need any of this "emotions" or "attachments." Plus there so much fear among certain groups that showing any sort of fondness for a member of the same sex makes you "gay" (because in some people's minds that the worst thing you can be for some reason). But in reality, having a close group of dudes you can just be yourself around and who will always support you no matter what is a very important aspect of a man's life that gets ignored frequently. As someone who has a very tight-nit group of friends who he's known since he was fifteen I can vouch for this. I applaud FFXV for having the courage to say "nothing is manly than showing your bros how much you love them by cooking them an awesome steak."

Fair enough, I can totally see why a group of only guys can be potentially fun or exciting. I guess Nomura's character designs are just tiring. The semi-shirtless, extra zippers and belts, perfect hair and/or perfect pretty boy style has gotten old to me. I guess ever since Cloud was designed (even then Cloud's outfit was still simple) they went ham with the whole idea.

Also, Quina is totally a trope. S/he's the weird non-human that joins your party and has little characterization outside of being weird and non-human. Kimahi from FFX, Mareg from Grandia II and Teddie from Persona 4 are all examples of this.

Haha, yeah I suppose you're right!

 

[finalark]

Basically. Nearly every random encounter can be dealt with by holding X. Any boss battle is about doing your best move and healing every so often. You didn't need to worry about MP usually, use buffs, etc. For any hard bosses, just leveling up and running the usual was good enough too.

It's not like any of the FF games have ever really been all that hard. Even the games that most people consider very challenging (mainly the NES games) are only hard due to directionless and tough monsters than can be overcome with grinding.

IMO the only FF games that really require any sort of critical thinking skills are probably FFX, which personally had me thinking about my next move more so than other games in the series, and the MMORPGs. Both FFXI and FFXIV require a good, working knowledge of the player's class and the boss fight in question in addition to a healthy dose of open communication and party coordination. Although the biggest difference between FFXI and FFXIV is that FFXI is designed to harshly punish mistakes and screw over the player while FFXIV is comparatively forgiving.

As much flack as Gambits get, I had to manually select commands more often than I ever did in XIII.

I feel like FFXIII's battle system would have been a lot more interesting if you controlled multiple characters. Only have control over one really feels limiting and while FFXIIII's AI is usually pretty good most of the time, I still don't like the idea of AI-controlled party members.

In the most recent years.. yeah FF has definitely been about evolving and trying new things. But up until FFX they didn't really change the turn based combat. If they did go back old school turn-based I would assume they'd do something very significant to spice it up. I guess Bravely Default is their answer for people like me. :O

To be fair, all FFX really did was modernize the combat from FFI-III. It was still a pretty good change of pace compared to the ATB system which had been in use since FFIV. I still think that FF has always been about trying new things, but for most of the games the "new things" part comes in at character customization.

Fair enough, I can totally see why a group of only guys can be potentially fun or exciting. I guess Nomura's character designs are just tiring. The semi-shirtless, extra zippers and belts, perfect hair and/or perfect pretty boy style has gotten old to me. I guess ever since Cloud was designed (even then Cloud's outfit was still simple) they went ham with the whole idea.

Nomura's designs starting feeling very uninteresting and samey at Advent Children IMO. Everyone in that movie all looks like they're wearing variants of the same costume.

But yeah, I'm not entirely enthusiastic about the character design in FFXV. All four of them just kind of run together in my head when I think about the main cast.

 

[finalark]

*Bump*

Square has finally confirmed the fate of Stella, Notcis' love interest from another family. She's been completely dropped from FFXV. Kinda. Apparently, she will be replaced with a character named Luna who will serve a slightly different role in the story. Why they didn't just keep her in and change her characterization and role as the story demanded is beyond me.

http://www.gamesradar.com/final-fan...m_medium=social&utm_campaign=gamesradar-owned

 

[Minato]

Dissidia writer is the writer for this, but apparently they're trying to stay faithful to Nojima's original scenario.

It's safe to say, we shouldn't be expecting anything from what we've seen before.

So basically we lost the original director, scriptwriter (having Dissidia writer instead of Nojima stings), and heroine.

 

[finalark]

Hopefully the scenario won't turn out as confused and directionless as XII's.

I'm sure the game play is going to be fine, but I'm not getting my hopes up that the story will be all that great.

 

[dezeray112]

*Bump*

Square has finally confirmed the fate of Stella, Notcis' love interest from another family. She's been completely dropped from FFXV. Kinda. Apparently, she will be replaced with a character named Luna who will serve a slightly different role in the story. Why they didn't just keep her in and change her characterization and role as the story demanded is beyond me.

http://www.gamesradar.com/final-fan...m_medium=social&utm_campaign=gamesradar-owned

That's a shame.

 

[Carrill]

I wanted to ask the people who frequent this thread a question. It's a generally accepted idea that the Final Fantasy has fallen as of late (or at least, lost sense of its direction). So considering that, what do you think is series' biggest problem currently? Staff members like Nobuo Uematsu and Hironobu Sakaguchi don't count.

 

[Minato]

I wanted to ask the people who frequent this thread a question. It's a generally accepted idea that the Final Fantasy has fallen as of late (or at least, lost sense of its direction). So considering that, what do you think is series' biggest problem currently? Staff members like Nobuo Uematsu and Hironobu Sakaguchi don't count.

For me, there's actually no problem aside from Toriyama's weird story ideas for the Lightning trilogy. The output of anything Final Fantasy related is quite small. If we're starting from XII, XII's biggest problem was that Matsuno wasn't able to have control of everything as director. You can see this through interviews how he said game development has changed. He was fully in charge of his PS1 titles while FFXII, it was a mix of ideas (like the giant ship in the sky wasn't his). Because of conflicting interests, they basically told Ito to finish it up. The gen after that, management and staff numbers really hurt. People had to finish up XIII and help on ARR which slowed down everything. I still feel like you can't put the entire blame on those games though for Versus XIII. Even after all those years with limited staff, it should not have turned out how it did.

Basically I don't see Final Fantasy as having lost its way, even if I enjoyed the older titles way more. Bad management screwed up last gen, giving us mostly XIII that only appealed to a portion of FF fans. ARR is now a huge money maker for them which is good. They're taking fan feedback for XV and even Type-0 by patching camera fixes. In a lot of ways, they're better as a company than they were years ago. Creatively though, we'll have to wait and see until more games out.

 

[finalark]

For me, I feel like the post FFX games do have issues, but I don't think I'd ever call any of them bad. For the most part, I'd say that after FFX is when Square started really messing around with the series seeing how it can keep it relevant to varying degrees of success.

FFXI appeals to a very specific audience, even among MMO fans and it refuses to change that. While the game certainly has a lot I could criticize it for I have to admire their dedication to their players. I feel like Squeenix really wanted this game to be bigger than it was (1.2 million at peak), hopefully putting themselves into a Word of Warcraft scenario where the MMO was so popular that they didn't need to make another single player game ever again. Obviously that didn't work out.

FFXII is more or less an evolution of XI's game play in a single player setting. IMO it's probably one of the most underrated games in the entire series, next to FFV. The only real problem this game had was it's lackluster story and characters, but for me personally I'd say that the game play more than made up for it. Granted, there was also the love-it-or-hate-it licence board and gambit system to consider, but I didn't really mind them.

FFXIII is not a bad game. I wouldn't even call it the worst Final Fantasy, that dishonor goes to Final Fantasy II. And I certainly wouldn't call it the worst JPRG I've played, that would Quest 64. It is flawed, yes. The battle system's attempts to be unique instead end up making many of the battles feel samey and the story really lacks focus despite how much they throw around that word. That being said, I think the Crystaltorium was an interesting evolution of the sphere grid, the paradigm system was a neat concept and I actually like a lot of the characters.

Now we get to FFXIV, or rather the relaunch of it, ARR. As a long time MMO fan I can confirm that yes, it is good, if a little confused on how solo oriented it wants to be. That being said, it's a good case for why the subscription model is healthier than free to play and there's a reason why it's one of the fastest growing MMOs on the market right now.

So yeah, as I said after FFX Squeenix really started experimenting with the series. That being said, Final Fantasy has always been about pushing boundaries and trying new things. Remember the time FFVIII asked "What if you could equip summons and spells?" Or how about when FFIV asked, "What if battles existed in a realm between real time and turn based?" The fact is that there's always been weak Final Fantasies and strong ones. I think with a lot of the post FFX game they did go a bit far in their experimentation, but as @ Minato Squeenix is taking fan feedback on their games and are actively working to make the best games that they can.

IMO half of the reason where there's a census that FF has "fallen" is more due to the general backlash against Japanese media that started in the late 2000s and the general gaming community favoring western RPGs over Japanese ones right now.

 

[CYBERSHADOW_01]

Will the new Dissidia be on PS4?

 

[finalark]

Will the new Dissidia be on PS4?

Yes, it's been confirmed for a PS4 release.

 

[CYBERSHADOW_01]

Yes, it's been confirmed for a PS4 release.

Yes! Thank you.

 

[Atrabilious]

Though that PS4 release won't take place until a year after it's hit the arcades in Japan, from what I understand. So we'll be waiting a considerable while.

 

[finalark]

That's not necessarily a bad thing, since that means the PS4 version will be more balanced and less buggy than the arcade version.

 

[dezeray112]

I wonder when they will unveil the next batch of characters for the Dissidia arcade game?

I'm still hoping the likes of Tidus and Noctis would make it in.

 

[Minato]

Off topic, but since there are JRPG lovers here, Steam has the Ys series up on sale. Think of a fast pace and more progressive Zelda and that's what Ys is. But if turn based is more of your style, keep a look out for Trails in the Sky to be a flash/daily sale. Trails is a really good series that deserves more attention in the west. With the next two games coming out this year and another one next year, the series needs all the support it can get to stay localized.

On topic, any bets on what Square will show regarding FF? They said no XV, but at the very least I'm hoping for Kingdom Hearts news.

 

[RetroBro]

They'll probably try and get us all pumped up for FF7, but then show the same game and the same trailer in front of a huge large audience.

Oh wait, they already did that.

 

[Minato]

If that guy appears on stage again, I'm expecting another troll. The guy's too good at it. lol

 

[finalark]

On topic, any bets on what Square will show regarding FF? They said no XV, but at the very least I'm hoping for Kingdom Hearts news.

In their E3 teaser they used a remix of Frog's theme when they were talking about a new mystery game. Maybe Chrono 3 or a port/remake of Trigger or Cross?

EDIT: Also, my buddy also recommended Trails in the Sky. What makes it so rad?

 

[Minato]

In their E3 teaser they used a remix of Frog's theme when they were talking about a new mystery game. Maybe Chrono 3 or a port/remake of Trigger or Cross?

EDIT: Also, my buddy also recommended Trails in the Sky. What makes it so rad?

A really solid JRPG is the best way to describe it. That and the Trails series has an insane amount of world building which is already in the middle of its third arc.

Trails in the Sky (First Chapter, Second Chapter, The Third)
Zero no Kiseki, Ao no Kiseki
Trails of Cold Steel (aka Sen no Kiseki)

Due to circumstances by trying to play catch up but get new fans going in the west, Third Chapter, Zero, and Ao will be skipped now unfortunately. It was necessary though for the series to continue in the west. If you're looking for a turn based RPG with its unique flair along with really good writing a music, it's a series that you shouldn't pass up.




EDIT: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/15/final-fantasy-vii-remake-is-coming-to-playstation-4/
Yeah... we'll see. I love FFVII but we'll see if they can pull it off, let alone this actually happening.

 

[dezeray112]

Hmm....looks like there will be a Final Fantasy VII remake after all (not the PS1 port):

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/15/final-fantasy-vii-remake-is-coming-to-playstation-4/

 

[finalark]

Hmm....looks like there will be a Final Fantasy VII remake after all (not the PS1 port):

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/15/final-fantasy-vii-remake-is-coming-to-playstation-4/

I'll believe it when I hear it from the mouth of a Square Enix executive.

 

[Minato]

Please don't let Genesis anywhere near a possible remake.

 

[dezeray112]

I'll believe it when I hear it from the mouth of a Square Enix executive.

Same here.

 

[LasermasterA]

Wait what a FF7 remake? Didn't SE say that they would go bankrupt and take tons of time to make one?

 

[Minato]

Wait what a FF7 remake? Didn't SE say that they would go bankrupt and take tons of time to make one?

They also said HD towns are hard. They say a lot of things, haha.

 

[LasermasterA]

Yea but still translating FF7 to a full HD game remake sounds tough. Considering how big it was relatively and how people are expecting the remake to be play out as. Like towns in Crisis Core and all that.

Plus they will have to either bring back the turn based gameplay which is (or may) not well received by new people or change the combat system to make old fans irritated.

Not to forget it took them ages to get FFXV close to completion. And a FF7 remake can very well steal atleast a bit of the new game's thunder.

 

[finalark]

Yeah, I don't think that leak is real. Plus I feel like it wouldn't be 1997 FFVII, but 2005 Hot Topic FFVII.

 

[Minato]

Yea but still translating FF7 to a full HD game remake sounds tough. Considering how big it was relatively and how people are expecting the remake to be play out as. Like towns in Crisis Core and all that.

Plus they will have to either bring back the turn based gameplay which is (or may) not well received by new people or change the combat system to make old fans irritated.

Not to forget it took them ages to get FFXV close to completion. And a FF7 remake can very well steal atleast a bit of the new game's thunder.

I'd say they got a hold of HD development now. Lots of Japanese devs are struggling, but I'd say Square is finally past that. As for gameplay, I don't see a huge risk for sticking with turn based. Remakes are generally for people that liked the originals. With the fanbase of VII, I think it'd be riskier to do something left-field.

FFXV taking ages to complete is due to a number of external factors. I wouldn't say it's something like a slow download speed that took this long to finish. Things were scrapped, people were moved, platform changes, etc. A 1 to 1 remake with XV scale and graphics definitely would take way too long, but I doubt they'd plan to do something like that. Stuff will be cut or altered for sure.

 

[Minato]

Wow, more sources are confirming that FFVII remake really is in the works for PS4. Please keep all those crazy minigames in, Square. You did it in Crisis Core, so I still have some faith left.

 

[dezeray112]

Well, if this FFVII remake is in the works is true. This could pretty much sway me to get the PS4 even more.

 

[finalark]

GUYS ITS REAL. THE FFVII REMAKE IS REAL.

I NEED HELP.

 

[Carrill]

The trailer for the Final Fantasy VII remake makes me worry that they're trying too hard to modernize it. I really hope they respect the fact that it's a game from 1997 and don't try to update the battle system to play more like Final Fantasy XIII or XV.

 

[Minato]

FFVII remake, The Last Guardian, Shenmue 3. Best. E3. Conference. Today.

 

[RetroBro]

Yeah, I think they have enough brains to not change the game too much, while keeping it very modern. I have faith, but I'm very very nervous.