General Discussion

[Redact]

actually you can do it with any player, holding down z also makes weird noises happen...

Play pal for an hour then switch to ntsc and tell me what happens.. until then stfu


why the **** are you talking about frames anyway.. it had nothing to do with the frames. THE SPEED OF THE GAME CHANGES!!!! jesus **** are you that ****ing ******** you cant read english >_> pal 60hz is a hybrid upscaling of 50hz to try and match ntsc, yet its still slower because its merely trying to emulate 60hz from 50hz ****ing ****.

for e.g I played PAL with jaz in sydney with others for several hours then switched to ntsc.. immediately jaz notes "ahmigod who is this beast??" after using Falcon for about 5 seconds. Now why on earth would he say that????? "I'll have to get used to the speed for a few matches".................. WHHHAAAAA?!?!?!?!?!!?

the game is produced in 60fps in both ntsc and pal

attacks go for the SAME AMOUNT OF FRAMES in both versions

thus theyre both the same speed

its simple logic

ps: its not just attacks too hey, everything is the same frame-wise, input/animation and all

also with your upscaling theory its wrong, the games been designed the 60hz base, then gets scaled down for 50hz, thats why the 50hz stuffers in quality

 

[unreon]

I'm with Zac as far as the games looking and feeling different.

I absolutely can't play 50Hz. It's very noticeable I play 50Hz; my tech rhythm goes completely out the window. Once I switch to 60Hz - HEY PRESTO! - I can play alot smoother.

However I don't think there is a speed difference in the games, just the TV display goes whack.

 

[Redact]

I'm with Zac as far as the games looking and feeling different.

I absolutely can't play 50Hz. It's very noticeable I play 50Hz; my tech rhythm goes completely out the window. Once I switch to 60Hz - HEY PRESTO! - I can play alot smoother.

However I don't think there is a speed difference in the games, just the TV display goes whack.

not even talking about 50hz, no one plays 50hz

talking about pal 60hz vs ntsc

unless zac is talking about pal 50hz

then rofl

very rofl

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

ntsc is faster, your just slow.

 

[Redact]

ntsc is faster, your just slow.

compelling argument with plenty of proof behind it

 

[tibs7]

zac got *****, just won't admit it, coz he is the best.
Nuff said.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

sigh australian smashers at there best.

 

[Splice]

the game is produced in 60fps in both ntsc and pal

attacks go for the SAME AMOUNT OF FRAMES in both versions

thus theyre both the same speed

its simple logic

I THOUGHT 50hz take out frames, but stays the same speed just missing frames?

If so doesn't that mean saying SAME AMOUNT OF FRAMES = SAME SPEED isn't 100% true?

I don't understand very much of this at all I'm asking a question don't hurt me Redact.

 

[Redact]

I THOUGHT 50hz take out frames, but stays the same speed just missing frames?

If so doesn't that mean saying SAME AMOUNT OF FRAMES = SAME SPEED isn't 100% true?

I don't understand very much of this at all I'm asking a question don't hurt me Redact.

50hz is actually slower, 5/6ths of the original speed to be exact

but this entire debate is about 60hz pal melee vs ntsc

sigh australian smashers at there best.

**** those australian smashers like atticus, who lived in America for... like 10 years or something i dunno

just if we could be as un-australian as you, living in Queensland (not part of australia)

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

your a scrub

 

[Redact]

your a scrub

well your post quality is going up amazingly, ill just stop posting now before the thread gets too bad hey

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

hanging around you guys too much me thinks..

 

[Pantsmann]

you know, zac. even if you're right, you're not providing ANY evidence except saying "but i feel that it is" which doesn't really stand up as reasoning anywhere. so you shouldn't be calling people scrubs or ******* when you're making really really badly formed arguments. "uninformed" would be better.

 

[CAOTIC]

I've played more competitve NTSC-US Smash than anyone here and I can't tell any differences between that and PAL60, as Peach anyway. I think Falcon feels slightly different in both games because he is slightly a different character in both versions (some moves/controls changed). So it might not be because of the scaling or anything, but rather just different code between the versions.

 

[Redact]

I've played more competitve NTSC-US Smash than anyone here and I can't tell any differences between that and PAL60, as Peach anyway. I think Falcon feels slightly different in both games because he is slightly a different character in both versions (some moves/controls changed). So it might not be because of the scaling or anything, but rather just different code between the versions.

thats exactly it, some moves are different (if you look at the thread atticus provided) weights changed so on so forth, but there is no difference in speed

 

[Sieg]

Look, back in 2005, Shined Blind was fast. Alot of us though it was sped up.

Obviously the game is played at a higher level today than it was back then. Shined Blind still looks fast even today, but obviously we have more knowledge of the game now.

I'm sure Cao would even agree that that video was amazing when it came out. No one had really seen a compilation of what Fox could do at the time.

But anyway.

The video looked sped up back then, that's how I saw it.

Stupid arguments about the speed of the game on two different region codes are pointless.

 

[undead_moose]

Incase you guys didnt catch it

Qld thought shined blind was sped up

Just incase you missed it

 

[CAOTIC]

The Fox rap was clearly amazing.

 

[Sieg]

I remember that Zel made a thread about how he didn't have the song anymore, and told people to quit bugging him about it even though it had already been out about 4 years lol.

 

[Atticus]

why the **** are you talking about frames anyway.. it had nothing to do with the frames. THE SPEED OF THE GAME CHANGES!!!! jesus **** are you that ****ing ******** you cant read english >_> pal 60hz is a hybrid upscaling of 50hz to try and match ntsc, yet its still slower because its merely trying to emulate 60hz from 50hz ****ing ****.

the fact that you think frames are irrelevant shows exactly why you have no idea what you're talking about. frames have EVERYTHING to do with the speed of the game because that's how one can quantify the speed of the game: the number of frames rendered in a second.

if the game is slower, it means less frames are being rendered in a second. if you go to training mode and run at 1/2 speed, the game isn't suddenly running at 30 hz, because it would then be the same speed and you'd just not be seeing half the frames because the image displayed isn't being refreshed often enough. rather, it's just rendering each frame of gameplay twice as long i.e. 30 fps but refreshing at the same rate of 60 hz.

games don't need to implement slowdown anymore because modern TVs in PAL regions genuinely support a 60 hz refresh rate with a PAL signal - the only "hybrid upscaling" going on is you get the best of both worlds, the refresh rate of NTSC and the increased scanlines of PAL. "emulating" a refresh rate doesn't even make sense. it would look like what happens when you try and play 60 hz on a tv that can only handle 50 hz.

the only reason to slow down a game 1/6 of a second is to make it run flawless in 50 hz, which older games did including smash 64. the fact that melee plays smoothly in 60 hz and looks like turd in 50 hz is proof that the game DOES run at normal speed.

 

[undead_moose]

Redact and atticus

Trollface.jpg ring any bells?

 

[Atticus]

it occured to me but i can't be expected to tell the difference between when syke is trolling or genuinely ********. i'll try and contain the the rising inferno of rage he has induced in me

 

[Sieg]

And you were the one who told me "What was the point of joining in" last time.

 

[TakFR]

Because Atticus' posts are all of amazing quality, therefore it is good whenever he joins into something =)

 

[Dekar289]

just for the idiots who didn't actually read any posts but pretended to understand whats going on, or are just idiots:

SYKE thinks that PAL 60hz melee is SLOWER than NTSC 60hz melee
syke furthermore says "frames have nothing to do with it. the speed of the game changes!"
rofl

 

[unreon]

Silentwolf and Eggz speed up the game.

I swear on it!

I want those magic hands

 

[King Kong]

I remember Ken saying that PAL version feels 'fake' to him. There is most certainly a difference in the feel of both versions (Even if it has nothing to do with framerate or whatever). Also I feel like a bat**** crazy demon on crack when i play NTSC sheik.

peace out

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

NM that KK, Ken said he felt like he was playing a fake version when I put my NTSC on secretly also....he couldn't tell the difference lol.

Edit: That doesn't mean there's no difference btw...there is....and it's HUGE with many characters really.

 

[CAOTIC]

Even thought it would do no benefit for me in tournaments, I really do prefer playing NTSC over PAL. Matchups seem more brutal for me so I try a bit harder.

 

[Dekar289]

perhaps a new poll in the melbourne melee thread kgo!

 

[S.D]

To me NTSC does feel smoother and better, I don't know why, it just does, I'm not going to analyse it.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

ok I'll put it as basically as I can,

NTSC - is as SD said, smoother and faster because its at its natural refresh rate (we'll call it that) where as PAL was downed to 50hz but then had the option of 60hz but because its played on Australian hardware its slightly ******** (we'll call it that)

The gamecube hardware was downscaled to a default 50hz but they created an emulated 60hz using that 50hz engine (dumbed down version) for incase your hardware (t.v) could support that, because those t.vs also emulated a 60hz mode. The frames dont change at all, the speed of attacks dont change.

You could say that if fox's shine was 10 frames in ntsc, well they changed it to say 8 frames in pal to make it seem the same. Now they certainly didn't change the frames but they did change the scaling so that is was similar to ntsc. **** this is hard to word..

PAL 60hz is jaggy and feels sluggish, yet you play 60hz and everything feels much smoother. This is what I've been trying to say.

 

[Redact]

ok I'll put it as basically as I can,

NTSC - is as SD said, smoother and faster because its at its natural refresh rate (we'll call it that) where as PAL was downed to 50hz but then had the option of 60hz but because its played on Australian hardware its slightly ******** (we'll call it that)

The gamecube hardware was downscaled to a default 50hz but they created an emulated 60hz using that 50hz engine (dumbed down version) for incase your hardware (t.v) could support that, because those t.vs also emulated a 60hz mode. The frames dont change at all, the speed of attacks dont change.

You could say that if fox's shine was 10 frames in ntsc, well they changed it to say 8 frames in pal to make it seem the same. Now they certainly didn't change the frames but they did change the scaling so that is was similar to ntsc. **** this is hard to word..

PAL 60hz is jaggy and feels sluggish, yet you play 60hz and everything feels much smoother. This is what I've been trying to say.

pal 60hz isnt as good looking at ntsc ill agree with that, but otherwise the game is the exact same speed overall

also no they didnt actually make it 50hz base then emulate 60hz

they made it 60hz then emulated 50hz if anything

also no frame data was changed unless its been specified in that thread, the speed for everything unless stated remains the same

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

They change it to default 50hz, and then go from that. It's part of the conversion and why it used to take several months for it to come out here. I know that no frame data was changed, I'm just trying to say that they tried to speed up the game in an "unnatural" way which makes it feel so different to ntsc.

 

[Dekar289]

it may feel different
or seem different
but it's the same speed
same frames

 

[S.D]

But Peach goes faster when my focks hits her with up smash?

 

[Dekar289]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAL9XtxEaM

eggz giving shroomed the business

 

[CAOTIC]

Shroomed gives me more of a hard time than Eggz. Funny how things work.

 

[tibs7]

Deks did you watch shroomed vs lucky? Omg doc has no chance.

 

[Sirias]

NTSC to me feels exactly the same as PAL 60hz.
... ADMITTEDLY I don't know the specifics, but I can safely say I have no trouble switching from PAL 60hz to NTSC, and apparently not many others.
But that doesn't mean there isn't a difference in speed.

The only way to know for sure would either be for everyone to simultaneously play NTSC and PAL 60hz, or prove it with more than just your own words.