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Gears of War 3

ThreeX

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I'm pretty sure I've always played on dedis in ranked. I've played about 1375 matches, and not once have I ever had host in a ranked match (i'm pretty much always party leader) or have I seen a host migration screen.

If a certain match seems more laggy then others, it could be because you've connected to a server outside of your region. (Which explains inconsistent pistol -.-)

@F8AL

I just dislike how majority of the players play quick match. Ranked exe having 940 players while quick gets 1381 >_____> Some people need to step it up and get their feet wet against better players. You can't expect to get better by bullying people who barely know how to play the game.
 

Wretched

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After playing with Pluvia, I have to admit that players in ranked are twice as good as the average player in quick match.
But then again, playing people who are playing together usually is the issue.
 

Pluvia

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From my experiences with ranked it seems that the players aren't better, they're just more campy and much more likely to be playing in a party.

If there's 4 of us then I speak about going on ranked, and if there's 5 of us then you pretty much have to go on ranked to find humans.

But if there's only 1 or 2 of you it's effectively suicide. No matter how good you are you're not going to beat a well cordinated team when you're on your own.

:phone:
 

The Real Gamer

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I have a long essay coming shortly that's going to reemphasize and expand on that observation you just made, pluvia.

Even after the SO nerf there is still something very wrong about GoW 3 and I've finally pinpointed the problem after really thinking about it for a while today.

Im hoping the post will open some eyes and get people to specifically realize what's wrong with GoW 3 ATM.

:phone:
 

MuraRengan

Banned via Warnings
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I have a long essay coming shortly that's going to reemphasize and expand on that observation you just made, pluvia.

Even after the SO nerf there is still something very wrong about GoW 3 and I've finally pinpointed the problem after really thinking about it for a while today.

Im hoping the post will open some eyes and get people to specifically realize what's wrong with GoW 3 ATM.

:phone:
I'm expecting one of two things:

1. An essay about how increasing AR power has devalued the technical skill requirement by which people naturally learned advanced ways to maneuver around cover while maintaining an accurate grasp of situations. Consequentially, how this lessens the critical thinking skills players used to need to do well.

2. An essay about how the emphasis on team play naturally defeats the situation of the player base because the majority of players don't have a team to play with. Emphasis on Epic's neanderthal insistence on team play although the average player wants nothing to do with it.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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F8AL, for the love of god, explain why it's such a big deal. What's the difference between saying "+1" and "I agree with you." I'm not bothering anyone. Same as when you infracted me for double posting so I could tell Pluvia I had to split. Can you please explain what is hurt in this case? It's not spam, which is what the rule is put in place to prevent.
 

F8AL

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F8AL, for the love of god, explain why it's such a big deal. What's the difference between saying "+1" and "I agree with you." I'm not bothering anyone. Same as when you infracted me for double posting so I could tell Pluvia I had to split. Can you please explain what is hurt in this case? It's not spam, which is what the rule is put in place to prevent.
Take this to PMs, I'm not discussing this in public.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Why? The last time I took it to PMs, you stopped responding.

EDIT: Hell, what's the difference between saying "+1" and

"+1

Smooth Criminal"
 

F8AL

Banned via Warnings
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I had nothing else to say.

This is your one and only verbal warning to get back on topic and if you'd like to discuss this further, please contact me via PMs.

Who here is getting the first DLC for Gears 3? I'll consider getting it if it's any good.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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I had nothing else to say.

This is your one and only verbal warning to get back on topic and if you'd like to discuss this further, please contact me via PMs.
Really? You had nothing more to say on the subject, and instead of redirecting me to a place where I could continue to try and resolve the issue, you simply ceased responding. Poor form.

I'll take it to PMs from this point forward, but I want it on record that I've lodged a complaint and intend to see it to it's resolution despite how badly handled my complaint was last time.

I'm waiting on a response.
 

Sinister Slush

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Arguements in this thread always amuses me.

Am I a bad person for still finding more excitement in Playing GoW2 over GoW3 online? (Only plays guardian, but still fun and being able to wallbounce so quickly)
Plus no Sawed off or Lancer being as annoying as it is in GoW3.
 

The Real Gamer

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I love how Mura was able to predict exactly what I was going to say before I even posted. I guess that just means my thoughts are pretty spot on.

There is a blatantly obvious reason for higher levels of play being dominated by campy team players. This is a response but it's an issue that keeps getting overlooked so I'm going into detail based off of my own personal observations. The read is definitely long but I ask that everyone takes note because Epic has already shown that they're willing to make tweaks to the multiplayer if us players voice our opinions enough. I feel like nobody would really disagree with most of this, but the main point of all of the text is just a matter of getting players aware of exactly what is going on. Read the following and spread the word.

BTW take note that in all of these scenarios I am mostly talking about TDM here, since it's the playlist of choice by the majority of Gears 3 players.

At higher levels of play, the fundamental problem with Gears 3 right now is that the game is extremely team based. So team based, in fact, that you're put at an extreme disadvantage against opposing teams that communicate even semi decently if you don't have a team that communicates yourself. Unlike most cases in both Gears 2 and 1, individual skill now takes a backseat to good teamwork by FAR. Take note of how players with extremely high K/Ds are almost always partnered up with at least one other skilled player. There is a method to the madness... They don't do this simply because they just really like playing with their buddies who also happen to be good at Gears, they do it because they realize that no matter how good they are, individually, they stand NO chance against cohesive teams that work well together in this game, even if they are just average players. Example, Pluvia himself has stated (and for good reason) that he mostly plays with a friend of his who also happens to be really good at Gears. I imagine your K/D is pretty high up there as a result, Pluvia. As for me on the other hand, I'd also consider myself a pretty exceptional Gears player simply because of my experience with the game since the beginning of Gears 2. However, unlike people like Pluvia, I'm almost always going solo online and my K/D is only at a fairly good flat 2.0 as a result. I can't even begin to count the amount of needless deaths I've gotten or the amount of games I've had to drop out of as a result of being on a team full of randoms going up against a fairly cohesive team, despite the fact that individually I was far better than anyone on the opposing team. I'm sure many of you could say the exact same.

Needless to say... This game is NOT like Gears 2, Call of Duty, or to a weaker extent, Halo in the sense that in those games you can still manage to leave a match with a win or a good K/D with randoms while going up against cohesive teams. Unless if you are extremely lucky with getting teamed up with good randoms (LOL pretty much never the case... almost always the complete opposite), you will pretty much ALWAYS get dominated in some way shape or form as a result. Gears 3 is extreme in the sense that your teammates performance can drastically effect your own individual performance, and as we all know whenever randoms are involved, it is rarely a positive effect. There is absolutely nothing YOU or any individual Gears player could do in a match where you're constantly either getting spawned trapped or killed by power weapons as a result of going up against an opposing team that works well together or being matched up with bad teammates (or a combination of both). All you can do is either quit or just take the loss without being able to fight back to your full potential. Pretty harsh punishment for randomly hopping in an online match, huh? This isn't a rare occasion, however. It's a common occurrence that many have been complaining about since the game first came out. Yeah online shooters are supposed to have an emphasis on teamwork to a certain extent but not the point where players are discouraged from playing solo. I'm sure I can vouch for you all when I say that the feeling of badly losing a match as a result of bad teammates is extremely frustrating and far too plentiful. This is also why it's so hard to play ranked matches without a party. All of the more serious players in there understand that being successful in Gears 3 means having good teamwork. Their individual skill means very little Gears 3. As a result of all of this, Gears 3 can become an extremely frustrating game to play oftentimes when you're playing by yourself. Personally, more frustrating for me to play by myself than any other game I've ever played, period. Why do us more experienced players have to constantly get punished by people we're clearly better than as a result of going solo online? The answer is that we shouldn't. That's just outright poor game design.

So now that I've hopefully established that Gears 3 puts perhaps a bit too much emphasis on teamwork and not enough on individual skill, it's time to take a look at what the main causes for this dramatic change are. My personal sentiments towards this issue is that there are 2 main culprits that work too well in conjunction with one another that result in the insanely low skill gap in Gears 3: the questionable map design of certain maps combined with the (currently) most broken weapon in the game, the Lancer.

Yes I just said the Lancer is the most OP weapon in the game and for good reason. Everyone, including myself, has been so busy complaining about the Sawed Off that we've all overlooked the weapon that's just as broken, if not more. All of the ARs in general are pretty ridiculous now in their own way, but the combination of ridiculously large clip sizes, harsh stopping power, and insane versatility at virtually any range has made the Lancer into a weapon that's extremely difficult to counter in most circumstances. The weapon is so good that it easily neuters any form of offensive approach. Many maneuvering tactics that we once worked hard on in Gears to advance on the enemy are now diminished. Individually, the weapon is just rough to deal with, but when used in conjunction with other Lancers it becomes an absolute NIGHTMARE to go up against. At longer ranges you will get downed within seconds unless you are quick enough to get behind some sort cover. But if you're caught out of cover for a even a second and start getting team Lancer'ed at around medium range you might as well just start planning what you'll do once you spawn again. Because of this, when multiple people with Lancers are protecting a power weapon or an area (commonly seen in teams) you won't be able to approach at all without the aid of either your own power weapons or a well executed team effort to get the area back with your own Lancer fire. Take note how I just said you needed a cohesive and well executed team effort to get that area back. In this entire scenario, you're with randoms, remember? So even though you may do the smart thing and stay back your teammates are still easily getting picked off 1 by 1. You're pretty much forced to camp and hope to nab a kill or two with your own AR. Smarter (take note of how I said smarter and NOT better players) teams abuse the power of the Lancer all of the time. Example, how many times have we all been in that helpless situation on Overpass where you've been a measly sitting duck in your spawn watching your team's points go lower and lower as a result of the insane amount of Lancer fire coming from the bridge? Or how about those annoying moments on Checkout when your opponents are just mowing you down so hard with the Lancer that you and your teammates begin to get picked off in your own spawn? I have observed on too many occasions that a cohesive team of smart, defensive Lancer users WILL demolish most teams comprised of randoms without question. What are you supposed to do in those situations? A team of Lancers completely demolishes Gnashers unless you can somehow approach (like I've stated is extremely difficult to do on your own). So... what exactly is supposed to counter a team of Lancers that has the dominant map control? The inferior Hammerburst that gets punished at any range other than long distance? The extremely inaccurate Retro? The SNUB??? The answer is that there is absolutely nothing you can do except Lancer them back and before you know it the match has devolved into a campy power weapon/map control camp fest that you and your team have no chance in thanks to your teammates. Put two good, cohesive teams against each other and the picture should become a little clearer on why the Lancer is so dominant in Ranked matches as well as higher level play. The fundamental argument when supporting overpowered weapons is always that they can be countered somehow. The Lancer can't be countered in most situations without using your own Lancer, and therefore it deserves a good nerf.

Another good reason as to why the Lancer is largely responsible for Gears 3 having such a small skill gap is that it is an easy to use, high reward, low risk weapon that promotes defensive, campy play. That's the fundamental difference between Gears 2 and Gears 3 right now. Although Gears has always been dominated by the Gnasher up until now, the only reason it dominated was through hard work put in by the players. The Gnasher actually takes skill to use since you have to learn how to approach, how to evade, how to aim, when to hard aim or blind fire, when to go for a 2-3 shot down or a gib, etc. There's risk involved with using it. The only thing players have to do with the Lancer is get behind cover, aim, squeeze the trigger until you're out of bullets, and reload. Then proceed to rinse and repeat. There's no formula to it and it's boring. The description of any good, balanced weapon is constantly defined by the popular saying "easy to pick up but difficult to master." A proper description for the Lancer would be "WOW this thing is so easy to get kills with even my mom was whooping *** with it after 10 minutes!" For the first time in Gears you don't have to be good with a Gnasher at all to be successful because the Lancer is just that good now. Some of my best and most consistent TDM matches have been a result of me just camping back and playing safe with a Lancer. Average players all the sudden are on an even playing field with those of us that have been playing the Gears series for years just because they've learned how to spray and pray with their online buddies, and quite frankly it's bull****. Gears has unfortunately devolved from a fast paced "in your face" shooter to a slow, campy, team based AR fest that requires very little skill. Who here can honestly say that they would prefer that to the older Gears?

Although the Lancer is pretty game breaking in and of itself, the terrible map design of literally half of the maps in the game just do nothing but emphasize campy play and Lancer use. I'll start with Overpass. Overpass is THE worst map I've ever played in Gears... Heck maybe in any shooter period. Players are literally forced to stay in their spawn if the opposing team has half of a brain and camps the bridge. Most people who try to leave the spawn afterwards are immediately mowed down with very little resistance. Sure the Boomshot was added to help take the bridge back but thanks to the weird angle of the bridge it's nearly impossible to get in position to get a good shot off in the first place! Although it is less difficult of a position to get back, the large hill on Sandbar is guilty of supporting the same exact tactic as Overpass: camp the hill and pick off players from below and punish them with Lancers for attempting to approach. Not enough for you? Here are more winning strategies. Thrashball: camp the upper stands and punish players below with Lancers for attempting to approach. Trenches: camp either or both of the high grounds and punish players below with Lancers for attempting to approach. Dry Dock: camp the small bridge in the middle and punish players below with Lancers for attempting to approach. What in the flying **** is this ****, guys? All 5 of those maps are HEAVILY in favor of defensive, campy, AR play. All 5 of those maps have the potential to quickly and easily deal you and your team death after death after agonizing death just because a bunch of teamed up campers were able to get to a position faster. Can someone PLEASE explain how it takes even a small portion of skill to just mow down a bunch of guys from the higher ground with a Lancer? But you haven't forgotten have you? Gears 3 takes no skill! So while you're either camping your *** off in your own spawn with marshmallows just to stay alive or working your *** off to nearly single-handedly get control of an area back, Epic is laughing and trolling all of you screaming "Screw experience and skill! All you need to be good at Gears 3 is a Lancer and TEAMWORK! NO GNASHER REQUIRED!" :troll: As for the rest of the maps, they're fairly neutral but all of them easily have the potential to turn into campy Lancer fests to control power weapon spawns.

tl;dr- To conclude, the dominance of the Lancer as well as the terrible map design that supports heavy AR use has morphed (and will continue to morph) Gears of War 3 into a slow paced, campy, and heavily team based game with an extremely small skill gap that constantly punishes both experienced and inexperienced players for playing solo. Whenever you play solo you are constantly putting yourself at risk of hopelessly losing a match or needlessly dying a lot/being forced to camp just because you and your teammates can't use enough "teamwork" to control a position. Since the map design is very unlikely to be changed, I propose that the solution to this problem would be to heavily nerf the Lancer as well as slightly nerf the Hammerburst/Retro. If ARs lose their power it simply allows more skilled players to approach easier, which in effect speeds up the game, lessens camping, widens the skill gap, makes certain maps more playable (although Overpass will most likely never see the light), and lessens the dependency of Epics idiotic idea of "teamwork."

Whether you're the one being spawn trapped on Overpass or doing the trapping yourself on Dry Dock, it's pretty safe to say that this game isn't nearly as fun as it should be. Like I said earlier Epic has already shown the capacity to be lenient and change their mistakes. If enough people voice their opinions then change will inevitably come. Whether or not that will actually happen is yet to be seen... Until then I suggest partying up next time you go into a match.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
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A bit too long just to talk about stuff we kinda knew already.
Which is why I still find joy in GoW2 online over GoW3 online. I just keep playing the 3rd once cause I can't find my GoW2...
 

The Real Gamer

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Like I said earlier although most of us are aware that the game is too team based I just wanted to pinpoint and clarify the exact problems that are causing this.

Oh yeah and to get people to voice their complaints. ^.^
 

Pluvia

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Only took almost 2 months but finally people are catching up to the thing I've been saying from the start:

The Lancer is broken.
 

The Real Gamer

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If it weren't for the SO people including myself would have realized this earlier.

However I don't see enough people complaining about some of the maps. I would personally die to hear Epic's explanations on how Overpass is balanced at all.

Just read this post on Epic's forum:

Overpass, Sandbar, Thrashball and maybe Trenches are probably the most frustrating maps I have ever experienced in any Gears game. The only way to win in any of these maps is to control the high ground or else you will get killed A LOT and feel like breaking the disc. I must say some Gears 3 maps are the worst in the Gears franchise, and that's also why the game is getting old quickly.
Overpass is THE worst map I've ever played in Gears... Heck maybe in any shooter period. Players are literally forced to stay in their spawn if the opposing team has half of a brain and camps the bridge. Although it is less difficult of a position to get back, the large hill on Sandbar is guilty of supporting the same exact tactic as Overpass: camp the hill and pick off players from below and punish them with Lancers for attempting to approach. Not enough for you? Here are more winning strategies. Thrashball: camp the upper stands and punish players below with Lancers for attempting to approach. Trenches: camp either or both of the high grounds and punish players below with Lancers for attempting to approach. Dry Dock: camp the small bridge in the middle and punish players below with Lancers for attempting to approach. What in the flying **** is this ****, guys?
#winning
 

Pluvia

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The only way I think they can balance Overpass is by giving it a massive overhaul. I think they need to add 3 staircases to the top, the one in the middle that they already have, and 2 on either side.

I'd say take out frags though, as you could use them to hold off 2 staircases, and instead replace them with snipers.

That's how I'd balance it.
 

Wretched

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Honestly, I think they need to nerf like every gun in the game.
The hammerburst has SO MUCH RANGE and SO LITTLE KICK so on maps like sandbar, you can just hang out up top. Same with overpass. The lancer has a huge clip, downs fast, has a fast reload, and has easily controllable kick.
The retro is really underrated because people hold down the trigger, but if you just act like the retro is a hammerburst, it downs SO FAST. The stopping power on it pretty much counters any approach from a sawed off.
The Gnasher has WAY TOO MUCH RANGE and hardaiming is too beneficial. Wallbouncing is near useless.
The Sawed Off needs a radius debuff and a range increase. It should have a big gib range and nothing else. It shouldn't be able to kill someone who strafes out of the way. The melee should be made into a three hit.

So, slow down the lancer reload, increase kick, give the hammerburst more kick, give the retro less damage, give the gnasher less range in general and more gib range, and give the sawed off a smaller kill radius and a larger gib range. Nothing else.
 

The Real Gamer

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Honestly, I think they need to nerf like every gun in the game.

The retro is really underrated because people hold down the trigger, but if you just act like the retro is a hammerburst, it downs SO FAST. The stopping power on it pretty much counters any approach from a sawed off.

The Sawed Off needs a radius debuff and a range increase. It should have a big gib range and nothing else. It shouldn't be able to kill someone who strafes out of the way. The melee should be made into a three hit.

give the hammerburst more kick
give the gnasher less range in general and more gib range
give the sawed off a smaller kill radius and a larger gib range
I disagree with all of these. :urg:
 

Fuelbi

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Hammerburst sucks already, Gnasher is fine the way it is just make itore consistent and wtf sawed off already has a huge gib range don't make it worse

:phone:
 

Master Xanthan

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Honestly, I think they need to nerf like every gun in the game.
The hammerburst has SO MUCH RANGE and SO LITTLE KICK so on maps like sandbar, you can just hang out up top. Same with overpass. The lancer has a huge clip, downs fast, has a fast reload, and has easily controllable kick.
The retro is really underrated because people hold down the trigger, but if you just act like the retro is a hammerburst, it downs SO FAST. The stopping power on it pretty much counters any approach from a sawed off.
The Gnasher has WAY TOO MUCH RANGE and hardaiming is too beneficial. Wallbouncing is near useless.
The Sawed Off needs a radius debuff and a range increase. It should have a big gib range and nothing else. It shouldn't be able to kill someone who strafes out of the way. The melee should be made into a three hit.

So, slow down the lancer reload, increase kick, give the hammerburst more kick, give the retro less damage, give the gnasher less range in general and more gib range, and give the sawed off a smaller kill radius and a larger gib range. Nothing else.
I'm sorry but nerfing all the weapon is a terrible idea. Hammerburst may be strong but it has a small clip. Gnasher is fine, and wtf you wanna give the Sawed off more range?! Retro may be good but really its only good at close range, at mid range lancer will dominate the retro. The lancer could use a nerf, though, either damage nerf or make the clip smaller. I don't care that much about the sawed off anymore, they already nerfed it so I'm happy with that.
 

ThreeX

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Gow isn't about shotgun anymore. I've been saying that since gow2. It's a team-based game, crossing with angles and getting map control is EXTREMELY important. Yes, I do agree that lancer is incredibly strong, but should it get nerfed at this point in the game? Maybe if sawed off/retro wasn't in the game, because as it is now the lancer is what helps us dominate those two weapons. What's stopping everyone from getting a team of friends to play with?
 

Fuelbi

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I love how if I want to get that DLC I'm going to have to spend 10$ instead of 5$ because apparently I'm missing 20 points to make 400 even, because the rewards program sucks **** and I have to wait till the 15th of this month if I'm going to get an extra 100 points for **** that I already did like 3 weeks ago

:phone:
 
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