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GanonTube - The Official Ganon Videos and Critique thread

Breezy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
531
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Heres some recent videos of me at a little local. None of our PRs were even there l0l. I dropped a game because I'm bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJpMNMlhWeY

That's the first game of winner's finals. The rest of the set and grand finals are on that guy's channel. If you want to watch them bad enough you can find them pretty easily.
 

Breezy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
531
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Your use of gerudo and aerudo is spot on. The only thing i have to critique is something I'm sure you've already noticed if you watched them. After you lost your first stock in the second game you got way too hungry for the kill, and got punished for it a lot. I do the same thing a lot.

:phone:
 

MetalPat

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
578
Location
Binghamton NY

Ray_Kalm

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
4,305
Location
Ontario, Canada
NNID
Ray_Kalm7
3DS FC
3626-0429-4546
hey guys, it took me about 4 months but i finally got vids recorded of my ganon.

please check out this low tier tournament video and let me know.
vs samus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1CvYvruCdU&feature=player_detailpage#t=7s

videos from tournament pools
vs marth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtKMHbzonmk&feature=player_detailpage#t=196s
vs snake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35lyE8IeKb4&feature=player_detailpage#t=413s
I watched the one you played against the Samus. You have the basics down of Ganon's approach style that's good. Just work on your powershield a bit more, while you were good at starting the momentum with powershield, you started delaying it later on.

Other than that, you've actually played pretty darn good against that Samus. Reminded me of myself.

You approached with gerudo a few times; bad idea, never do it unless it's a mindgame. At 1:18ish you did gerudo > predict > FSMASH, the FSMASH was good but normally you should just gerudo > jab or (proper attack) against the respected character.
 

MetalPat

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
578
Location
Binghamton NY
I watched the one you played against the Samus. You have the basics down of Ganon's approach style that's good. Just work on your powershield a bit more, while you were good at starting the momentum with powershield, you started delaying it later on.

Other than that, you've actually played pretty darn good against that Samus. Reminded me of myself.

You approached with gerudo a few times; bad idea, never do it unless it's a mindgame. At 1:18ish you did gerudo > predict > FSMASH, the FSMASH was good but normally you should just gerudo > jab or (proper attack) against the respected character.
i didn't know jab did work with samus. normally for most characters i try to buffer a dtilt since most players i play against dont expect it, but jab only if i KNOW it will hit them.
 

Raven¤

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Panamá
Thanks you Bahamut

Thank you very much your board has served me very helpful in using Ganondorf, Ganondorf've been using since January this year, and I always pass by here to see videos that I be helpful. Sorry for my bad English, I speak Spanish. I would like to see some video that teaches using an anti tactical missile to mario, luigi, wolf, etc.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
sounds about right. can't forget koskinator, he's been doing really well too.
 

Solharath

[ZTD] CEO
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
1,603
Location
North Muskegon, Michigan
Wait, aren't Ray_Kalm, Z1gma, and hyperstation the best ganons?
sounds about right. can't forget koskinator, he's been doing really well too.
Nope, I'm da
guy who is seriously not the
bes
but I love playing Ganon
. I three stocked
my buddy's
Wolf
in a serious friendly, hence why we uploaded it
.
 

Ruinn

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
588
Location
Scarborough, Ontario
isnt dla the bet ganon? also, i just learned ganon jump thingy, can it be useful at all? i mean ganon that high in the air seems pretty bad. :s
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
It's useful against a recovering snake. Other than that its situationally useful if your opponent is high in the air and trying to get down. Never use it when your opponent's on the ground.

:phone:
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
Here're some of the videos from IE Smash this weekend:

http://www.twitch.tv/jamnt0ast/b/325749077

Me vs. Bladewise is at 2:35:00 - I made some pretty bizarre errors like Dsmashing twice in a row and wizkicking backwards. Also, in the third match, I gerudo'd like 3 times when I meant to wizkick his landing. I couldn't help but facepalm a little at the time, but thankfully it didn't **** me up too much.

http://www.twitch.tv/jamnt0ast/b/325773993

Me vs. Jamnt0ast is at 00:06:43
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
3,399
Location
La Grande, Oregon
NNID
Vermanubis
3DS FC
1564-2185-4386
Hey, guys. Start posting your videos again. I'm gonna do a massive update on this thread here soon.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
Verm- sorry for the late critique...

vs Bladewise -- I really like your use of Nair. When marth's spacing against you, you should throw out more dash attacks to try to get inside. Bladewise seemed to be pretty inexperienced in this MU... he kept on attacking your shield with full hop Fairs, which you could have punished with a full hop Uair OoS every time. He was doing it many times throughout the whole set--I lost count at 10. Other than that you made some good choices this set. Nice job.

vs Jamnt0ast - I don't have much to say about this one, you played very solidly throughout the set. Jamnt0ast was way too aggressive against you, at least until the ledge shenanigans started happening. I lol'd at the 2 consecutive Utilts.


Rizen - I wish I had more to say, but you seem to have the basics down. Just keep playing against better players and work on your move choice. It'll come naturally. Try to find some well-known players, even if it's wifi, and record your matches with them. There's a lot more to critique if the video doesn't just consist of you destroying <wifi player x>.



I'll be posting a bunch of matches against Arty over the next few days.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,897
Location
Colorado
^Good stuff! Awesome anti-luigi edge guarding :D

Does Ganon do better on wifi or offline? I can see pros and cons to both like better PSing range attacks/DI offline but landing attacks is much easier on wifi.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
Thanks, Ganon vs Luigi is probably my favorite MU in the game. Arty didn't believe me lol.

People like to complain about fighting Ganon on wifi because they keep running into his attacks... but the fact is, it's MUCH harder for Ganon to deal with camping on wifi. Against aggressive players, Ganon does about the same... but once they start camping, Ganon is hurt more than most other characters in the game.


Also I think Arty and I both played extremely well in the Ganon vs Falco match. For some reason I'm more proud of that one than the Luigi set where I only lost one stock altogether lol. There's only so much Ganon can do against Falco : /
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,897
Location
Colorado
Ganon vs Falco (like Link vs Falco) is one of the annoying MUs that can be won with a lot of smart work if Falco 'fights fair' but falco can be cheap/smart and laser camp>sideB>repeat then only attack close to KO and there's nothing you can do :( .
Does Ganon have any attacks that always stop Fox/Falco's sideBs? I know most range attacks will and there are some other attacks that always hit them out of sideB like Zelda's Utilt/sweetspot LKs, Link's Utilt (IIRC) and Dair, Ivysaur's Nair, and several others.

Edit response to post below:
That's a good rule of thumb. Falco's sibeB has weird dynamics; sometimes a smash will make both characters stall and take no damage but a weaker Utilt will hit Falco out (same distance). I think transcendent attacks always beat it because the hit bubbles are the source of weird protection. The very start makes Link's Dair bounce it without hurting Falco but he can be hit during the rest of the 1st 3rd by that and certain attacks. What's weird is he can be stopped by a weak, not transcendent range attack but will go through Smashes. And Falco doesn't overpower attacks but nullifies that part of them (not the entire attack, necessarily).

I don't want to spam the video thread but it's an interesting subject.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
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Chicago, IL
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DLAhhh
Falco's basically invincible during the first 1/3 of side B. After that, pretty much any move in the game will hit him out of side B.

:phone:
 

MarcheR

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
mars
3DS FC
1177-7044-9396
(late but not the latest on the page so w/e)

I think you overused jab and didn't really use enough uair/DA. A few more uairs early on would've helped get the ball rolling, but the missing jabs seemed to be the only standout problem. And since this is ganon vs. lucas, I'd really suggest (in the future, if you ever get another matchup) to abuse dsmash whenever possible, since lucas is the only sure double-hit.

I've never even used Lucas seriously before, but he seemed to abuse the up-B a lot more than he should've. It looks like you would've been in more trouble if he played a stronger aerial game (or used his abusable tilts), but what do I know.

Your spacing seems really good for dodging, but it's pretty notable how often you barely miss with attacks.

Ganon's ledge recovery is much better with aerials than his ground attacks, as mentioned in the tech thread.

Conclusion: you played well, but this was a spacing match and you got the short end of that stick a few too many times. Also lag. /armchaircritique

And on the two Marth matches from earlier, I'd say you were a bit too aggressive. It felt like you were just running into his range before thinking of what to do sometimes. Good use of smashing and aerial spacing, though. I would've liked to see more Gerudo (you can never have too much Gerudo), his abundance of countering was just asking for it. Too bad Marth has so much range and speed over Ganon, though, between that and the chainthrows he had you in it was a pretty steep disadvantage.
 

Xubble

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
991
Location
Southern IL
I noticed a lot of rolling. Ganon doesn't exactly have the best roll, and a lot of times against better opponents, you will punished for that. Also, be careful with how you use DownB. The lag you get from hitting the stage is really bad, and you got hit for it a few times.

Didn't exactly watch it in detail, but you have a fairly decent Ganon from what I saw.
 

MarcheR

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
mars
3DS FC
1177-7044-9396
I agree with Xubble, your Ganon is pretty good. But I also agree that there's a little bit excessive wizard foot going on, since non-cancelled wizkick leaves you pretty vulnerable.

I really have to mention this (especially having only remembered it last week); Ganon can drop straight to the ledge with a smash of the control stick 45 degrees down and away from the stage. This would've helped especially at one point, and can never hurt when edgeguarding.

You walked into a good bit of thunderstomps near the beginning. Whenever I've done ganon mirrors, this is when I find rolling to be most useful, or shield -> jab if you can buffer and time it well enough.

You seemed to flow better in the second half of the video. At the start there was a lot of rolling, dodging, waiting for attacks before punishing lag; towards the end you were chasing more with uairs and gerudo more, which generally works better for Ganon than being defensive.

If I had to suggest doing anything more, I'd say ftilts and jabs were a bit lacking. They're not always perfect, but I for one find them excellent charge breakers and ground spacers (as opposed to uairs and retreating bairs). Do you have c-stick set to tilts? I find them more useful for Ganon, who can KO with aerials and tilts, and makes Gerudo followups easier.

(more advice from a nobody)

(PS - today I learned that Ganon's roll is very, very close to Wolf's, in distance and speed. If you have to outrun a Wolf, better off wizkicking in the opposite direction, or jabbing him off and running away.)
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
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DLAhhh
I don't think so, his double jump is too high. Besides, his super jump is buns anyways so there's no point.
 
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