Ganondorf

[Morbi]

I sort of want Ganondorf to return, but sort of not. If the character limit in this game is 5 for each franchise - well, we have Link, Toon Link, Zelda AND Sheik (instead of Zelda/Sheik ;- - that means there is not a huge chance of a LoZ newcomer, which is what I definately want, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

The only way Ganondorf would be removed would be if Sakurai decided to commit to Ganon. Other than that, he would never remove the Triforce of Power. But yeah, I would be content with ANY Legend of Zelda newcomer.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

The main villain of one of Nintendo's big three deserves to have his own moveset IMO.

I don't even care if he has a sword or not though, just let him throw his balls already.

 

[SadisticPanda]

The only way Ganondorf would be removed would be if Sakurai decided to commit to Ganon. Other than that, he would never remove the Triforce of Power. But yeah, I would be content with ANY Legend of Zelda newcomer.

And I have a feeling Sakurai will commit to him. I heard somewhere that Ganondorf is apparently Sakurai's favourite Nintendo character, though I don't know if this information is false.

 

[Morbi]

The main villain of one of Nintendo's big three deserves to have his own moveset IMO.

I don't even care if he has a sword or not though, just let him throw his balls already.

That is all you want? Ball throwing abilities? Haha.

I wouldn't mind if he got an overhaul. I just don't find it likely. But I also desire the ability to throw his balls.

 

[KatKit]

@TGS: If that happens, I hope Link can reflect them with his bottle sword.

In all seriousness, though... Ganondorf deserves an overhaul. He's different from Captain Falcon, more or less, but it's still kind of weird that they avoid adding attacks from his games.

 

[Morbi]

If that happens, I hope Link can reflect them with his bottle sword.

In all seriousness, though... Ganondorf deserves an overhaul. He's different from Captain Falcon, but it's still kind of weird that they avoid adding attacks from his games.

It is a little weird. I mean, he could always slowly declone Ganondorf with moves pertinent to his character, but instead we get generic attacks to differentiate him.

And I have a feeling Sakurai will commit to him. I heard somewhere that Ganondorf is apparently Sakurai's favourite Nintendo character, though I don't know if this information is false.

I believe that Sakurai mains Ganondorf. I could be wrong, but that is what I heard.

 

[KatKit]

There's something oddly satisfying landing many of Ganondorf's attacks, so I can believe it if Sakurai mains him (although I imagined him as a Dedede user, for obvious reasons).

If Ganondorf actually uses his sword this time around, I think it would be cool if he pulled out a second one, Wind Waker/Ganon (OoT) style. I dont imagine him carrying a sword (or swords) around the entire match, but if he whipped it (or them) out for an attack or two, that would be much appreciated. Wishful thinking on my part, though haha.

 

[Morbi]

There's something oddly satisfying landing many of Ganondorf's attacks, so I can believe it if Sakurai mains him (although I imagined him as a Dedede user, for obvious reasons).

If Ganondorf actually uses his sword this time around, I think it would be cool if he pulled out a second one, Wind Waker/Ganon (OoT) style. Wishful thinking on my part, though haha.

I wouldn't even mind if they cut Ganondorf for Toon Ganondorf. It would probably make a lot of people angry, but he would be a really cool addition to Smash. He isn't even my favorite variant of Ganondorf. But you can't beat dual-wielding swords. I mean, Ganon/Ganondorf are prominent enough to get a second slot. If Sheik/Toon Link could earn a slot, Ganon/Toon Ganondorf can.

 

[KatKit]

Considering how Link and Zelda have attacks from other incarnations, Ganondorf could be the same, regarding dual wielding. I don't oppose the idea of a Toon Ganondorf, though, but they can just as easily give Toon Ganondorf inspired moves to the existing one instead.

EDIT: I just remembered customizable movesets. It might be possible to further de-clone Ganondorf that way (or keep him unchanged, depending on your preference). Kind of interesting now that I think about it.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I sort of want Ganondorf to return, but sort of not. If the character limit in this game is 5 for each franchise - well, we have Link, Toon Link, Zelda AND Sheik (instead of Zelda/Sheik ;-; ) - that means there is not a huge chance of a LoZ newcomer, which is what I definately want, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Though if Ganondorf does return, I'll be happy.
Unless he has the same moveset. STAHP WITH THE GODDAMN CLONES.

You might be pleased to know that Sakurai has already made it clear that he will not be making any clones for this game, so I think we can be pretty confident that if Ganondorf comes back (I'd say very strong possibility) that he will not be a CF clone.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbb374g9vY

This is a PM mod by Ashingda which aims to give Ganon a sword, fist and magic modes all interchangeable by using the taunts. It's aimed to be balanced and so far it's looking that way.

Fist mode is most powerful but has the least range and average speed. Sword mode is moderate power but has most range and is the slowest. And so far magic is weakest with moderate range and most speed.

This video showcases his sword (it was slightly adjusted in the most recent update) I would be very happy if SSB4 Ganon was like this but I would change;

~ Jab to be like Melee/PM
~ Forward Tilt to be like PM (Sparta kick that can be tilted up and down)
~ Up tilt to be like PM (a sumo stomp looking move) it totally fits Ganon.
~ Up B to be 2 full teleports to make his recovery truly good. (In this current version of the mod the second teleport is pretty minuscule)
~ Neutral B has to be Dead's Man Volley, it just has to.
* and Down Smash can be a ground punch shockwave like in OOT*

Check it out, its a work in progress but it's extremely well done.

I don't know if my post was missed, but you guys should really check it out.

And how would you feel if Ganon was like this mod? (with or without the changes a listed)

Thoughts?

 

[KatKit]

That would make him more unique, being able to switch stances, so to speak. I really like the idea (I can't see the video yet since I'm on a phone, though I get the gist of it from the description), and it stays true to the character. Being a powerhouse who uses magic and a sword.

As for your personal changes, I agree with a lot of them. I never thought of the OoT ground shockwave punch haha.

 

[JFM2796]

I don't know if my post was missed, but you guys should really check it out.

And how would you feel if Ganon was like this mod? (with or without the changes a listed)

Thoughts?

It's cool but I don't see it happening, mainly because transformations have been removed so that "players can focus on just one moveset."

 

[KatKit]

It's still possible since there's a difference between a simple stance change and transforming into an entirely different character, with a new character model, and all around different fighting style. Kirby still has his iconic mimic ability, for example, despite the fact that technically players have an altered moveset once they acquire it. He gets rid of the ability with a taunt. Ganondorf could work the same way. It's as simple as pulling out a weapon and putting it away. Giving the stances different properties for balancing purposes probably wouldn't require much learning curve, but I think that's where things get complicated. And yeah... in hindsight, now I understand the doubt.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I was actually just refering to the sword mode. Not the all the stances.

It would be awesome if he got all te stances but it's very unlikely and a HUGE balancing issue.

I was thinking "what if SSB4 Ganon had the sword moveset alone" (I would change some moves so its more varied like I listed above, and since it only one mode/stance it shouldn't have to worry much about balancing itself) would that please Ganon fans?

I think that sword mode with the changes I listed would be one badass Ganondorf.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I don't know if my post was missed, but you guys should really check it out.

And how would you feel if Ganon was like this mod? (with or without the changes a listed)

Thoughts?

Like I said, I have already seen it, and it is sweet. I would love to play Ganon with that moveset.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Like I said, I have already seen it, and it is sweet. I would love to play Ganon with that moveset.

Balanced, NO, not if all the styles of fighting were included.

 

[Z1GMA]

words

Watched the video. It was pretty kewl.

 

[Xzsmmc]

You might be pleased to know that Sakurai has already made it clear that he will not be making any clones for this game, so I think we can be pretty confident that if Ganondorf comes back (I'd say very strong possibility) that he will not be a CF clone.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but Toon Link still looks to be a clone.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BPp-mWmzpg

Here's a video showcasing all of the modes/stances in the mod (its still in Beta 0.1 so its not complete at all). And you could also see that "magic Ganon" has a ground punch as his Dsmash. That would totally work for Ganon in SSB4.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but Toon Link still looks to be a clone.

Toon Link may be an exception to this, since he IS Link, just in cell shade. His actual character is a clone, for all intents and purposes.

 

[Morbi]

You might be pleased to know that Sakurai has already made it clear that he will not be making any clones for this game, so I think we can be pretty confident that if Ganondorf comes back (I'd say very strong possibility) that he will not be a CF clone.

I am not sure where you are getting this, could you perhaps LINK a source?

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I am not sure where you are getting this, could you perhaps LINK a source?

Sorry, don't remember where I got that. As soon as I find it I will let you know, hopefully I didn't get it from some lying yahoo. But I will get back to you.

 

[Rymi]

they can still change his moveset since he has other elements and other stuff

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I am not sure where you are getting this, could you perhaps LINK a source?

The closest and most reliable I can get to my information.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection
Look at paragraph 8, towards the bottom. Sakurai says that he determines which characters up for consideration have unique traits that he wants in the game. Apparently that spiraled into everyone assuming that he would be decloning, and I heard it from a friend and believed that and posted it here. It isn't necessarily a bad idea to think that way, with some exceptions in mind. Perhaps he won't have clones, but 1 or 2 semi-clones. Sorry, though, I spoke a little hastily.

 

[Hexaped]

Here is an idea: give Ganondorf his dagger from Ocarina of Time.
Ganondorf holds this curved dagger in official concept art. Ganondorf keeps the dagger sheathed in a SSBM trophy. He might even have it in a certain OoT cutscene.
Using a dagger could satisfy those who want range and those who do not want much range. It would reflect his role as a leader of bandits. It would keep Ganondorf unique from other weapon-wielders.

To BladeOFLucas: thanks for respecting my post from some days ago. I have an idea for why Mr. Sakurai did not fully reflect OoT Ganondorf's recklessness or TP Gaondorf's cautiousness with their movesets. Evidence is from SSBM, SSBB, and Mr. Sakurai's words. Knowing the close deadline for SSBM, Mr. Sakurai had little time, but realized Ganondorf's body resembled Cpt. Falcon. Of course, this is perhaps the only reason Ganondorf debuted in SSBM rather than SSBB. Though Mr. Sakurai rushed Ganondorf in, he had enough time to create three slightly unique moves other than specials. Neutral a, up tilt, and forward air are created.
Then Brawl comes, and Mr. Sakurai tries to edit some of Ganondorf's moves, but since he refused to entirely de-clone Ganondorf, nothing significant changed. So Mr. Sakurai did not have TP Ganondorf's cautiousness in mind. It seems only TP Ganondorf's sword/voice/kick animation/portals/beast form/age were used by Mr. Sakurai. The portal could have been from OoT or WW, though.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Here is an idea: give Ganondorf his dagger from Ocarina of Time.
Ganondorf holds this curved dagger in official concept art. Ganondorf keeps the dagger sheathed in a SSBM trophy. He might even have it in a certain OoT cutscene.
Using a dagger could satisfy those who want range and those who do not want much range. It would reflect his role as a leader of bandits. It would keep Ganondorf unique from other weapon-wielders.

To BladeOFLucas: thanks for respecting my post from some days ago. I have an idea for why Mr. Sakurai did not fully reflect OoT Ganondorf's recklessness or TP Gaondorf's cautiousness with their movesets. Evidence is from SSBM, SSBB, and Mr. Sakurai's words. Knowing the close deadline for SSBM, Mr. Sakurai had little time, but realized Ganondorf's body resembled Cpt. Falcon. Of course, this is perhaps the only reason Ganondorf debuted in SSBM rather than SSBB. Though Mr. Sakurai rushed Ganondorf in, he had enough time to create three slightly unique moves other than specials. Neutral a, up tilt, and forward air are created.
Then Brawl comes, and Mr. Sakurai tries to edit some of Ganondorf's moves, but since he refused to entirely de-clone Ganondorf, nothing significant changed. So Mr. Sakurai did not have TP Ganondorf's cautiousness in mind. It seems only TP Ganondorf's sword/voice/kick animation/portals/beast form/age were used by Mr. Sakurai. The portal could have been from OoT or WW, though.

Yeah, I knew about the deadline thing, and that probably is the reason for his moveset being that way. One thing that doesn't make much sense though, is why Sakurai refused to declone him but at the same time weakened what was already not the best. I think that Ganondorf was actually an intentional clone for Brawl, he realized that Ganon had a popular moveset in Melee, so he tried making him a little more unique, but he also weakened the strength of most of his moves. The result was a shame to Ganondorf, in my personal opinion, and I hope that Sakurai does something new and cool for Smash 4.

Oh, and your dagger idea is nice, almost forgot to mention that.

 

[Hexaped]

Certainly. Ganondorf using a dagger would be new and cool! But I think such a weapon would seem too serious for SSB. Swords are violent too, but they are archaic and usually symbolize honor. Daggers resemble knifes, and could seem too related to modern gang wars. Otherwise, it would be nice to see Ganondorf swing it in unique ways.
If you observe Ganondorf's use of beam swords in SSBM, he looks like he is stabbing someone with his forward smash. Perhaps Mr. Sakurai had Ganondorf's treachery in OoT in his thoughts? Or was it the Space World Tech Demo?

 

[Canuckduck]

Certainly. Ganondorf using a dagger would be new and cool! But I think such a weapon would seem too serious for SSB. Swords are violent too, but they are archaic and usually symbolize honor. Daggers resemble knifes, and could seem too related to modern gang wars. Otherwise, it would be nice to see Ganondorf swing it in unique ways.
If you observe Ganondorf's use of beam swords in SSBM, he looks like he is stabbing someone with his forward smash. Perhaps Mr. Sakurai had Ganondorf's treachery in OoT in his thoughts? Or was it the Space World Tech Demo?

No, I say give him his sword.

It'll give him a moveset that is both diverse and distinct (from Captain Falcon's).

 

[Morbi]

No, I say give him his sword.

It'll give him a moveset that is both diverse and distinct (from Captain Falcon's).

I actually like the dagger idea much more; another sword wouldn't contribute as much as a dagger would. The dagger alludes to his prominent role as a king of thieves. If he were to get a sword, I would prefer the Toon Ganondorf style of dual-wielding swords.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I don't think giving Ganondorf a sword would be too much of one weapon. Most of the sword characters so far have all had distinctive styles, and Ganondorf would be no exception. What you have to take into account is the fact that his sword is so different from the others, it's a claymore. Ike used a two handed sword, which has very linear strikes with lots of power. Marth and Roy had very graceful, fluid motions. Metaknight had a kind of jerky stab. Ganondorf might have a combination of Marth and Ike as his playstyle, powerful but with a fluid flourish. Ike is really just blunt power. Marth is speed and finesse. Strength and finesse (not all that much speed) would be an interesting addition. And they don't even have to do it that way.

Edit: I was taking that from OoT, but Wind Waker would be even cooler.

 

[Morbi]

I don't think giving Ganondorf a sword would be too much of one weapon. Most of the sword characters so far have all had distinctive styles, and Ganondorf would be no exception. What you have to take into account is the fact that his sword is so different from the others, it's a claymore. Ike used a two handed sword, which has very linear strikes with lots of power. Marth and Roy had very graceful, fluid motions. Metaknight had a kind of jerky stab. Ganondorf might have a combination of Marth and Ike as his playstyle, powerful but with a fluid flourish. Ike is really just blunt power. Marth is speed and finesse. Strength and finesse (not all that much speed) would be an interesting addition. And they don't even have to do it that way.

I agree with this sentiment, but him having the sword for only half of his move-set would feel weird and unwarranted in my opinion.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I agree with this sentiment, but him having the sword for only half of his move-set would feel weird and unwarranted in my opinion.

Huh? What do you mean for half his move-set?

 

[Morbi]

Huh? What do you mean for half his move-set?

I don't feel like he is going to give Ganodorf a complete overhaul; he would probably do something more reminiscent of Bowser. So he wouldn't necessarily change moves like his F-air, U-tilt-F-tilt, D-tilt, Neutral/Jab, F-special (which are all original). I also doubt that he would change moves pertinent to his character like D-air and possibly D-Special. I am skeptical that he would change his recovery move as well, but I suppose his recovery wouldn't involve the sword anyways.

So basically, he could incorporate the sword for his N-Air, U-Air, D-Special, N-Special, and Smash attacks.

Just a theory, he could give Ganondorf an overhaul, but I doubt it.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I don't feel like he is going to give Ganodorf a complete overhaul; he would probably do something more reminiscent of Bowser. So he wouldn't necessarily change moves like his F-air, U-tilt-F-tilt, D-tilt, Neutral/Jab, F-special (which are all original). I also doubt that he would change moves pertinent to his character like D-air and possibly D-Special. I am skeptical that he would change his recovery move as well, but I suppose his recovery wouldn't involve the sword anyways.

So basically, he could incorporate the sword for his N-Air, U-Air, D-Special, N-Special, and Smash attacks.

Just a theory, he could give Ganondorf an overhaul, but I doubt it.

You might be right there, and I wouldn't mind any way it happens, just so long as his balance and strength reflects some of what Ganon should be.

 

[Morbi]

You might be right there, and I wouldn't mind any way it happens, just so long as his balance and strength reflects some of what Ganon should be.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if he just pulled his sword out for Smash attacks; they could declone his specials with more magical attributes, and perhaps change some of his normals. That way you please everyone. The pro-Sword Ganondorf mains, the pro-Magic Ganondorf mains, and the pro-Physical Fighter Ganondorf mains. The only people that would miss out are the Falcondorf mains, but it is so very difficult to please everybody.

 

[Hexaped]

I would be satisfied if OoT Ganondorf returned. Just the model.

 

[theinstituter]

I would be satisfied if OoT Ganondorf returned. Just the model.

I agree, I kinda prefer his OoT model than the Twilight Princess model of Ganon.

 

[Canuckduck]

I agree, I kinda prefer his OoT model than the Twilight Princess model of Ganon.

I also prefer him without a beard.

 

[Hexaped]

I want to make a OoT Ganondorf moveset. A moveset based on Ganondorf before he got the triforce. If you total all the things he did in the game, even to that point, there is much to work with.
Why, and how, did he go inside a giant sentient tree and decorate their innards with puzzles while they were still alive? Ganondorf was involved with it somehow, since there are blocks with the Gerudo symbol in there.