Ganondorf

[egaddmario]

I hope Brawl was merely a transition step from full clone to semi to new character for Smash 4 so that the Falcondorf mains wouldn't have had a too hard transition.

 

[Canuckduck]

I hope Brawl was merely a transition step from full clone to semi to new character for Smash 4 so that the Falcondorf mains wouldn't have had a too hard transition.

To be honest, I'd prefer it if there was only 1 "Captain Falcon" character in SSB4.

I hope they'll change Falcondorfs moveset completely.

 

[egaddmario]

To be honest, I'd prefer it if there was only 1 "Captain Falcon" character in SSB4.

I hope they'll change Falcondorfs moveset completely.

That's what i mean- the Melee Ganondorf players transitioned to the Brawl Ganondorf. So now Brawl Ganondorf can keep the new moves like Flame Choke and add on even more new ones so that the Melee Ganondorf players had time to learn Brawl Ganondorf and will adjust to Smash 4 Ganondorf. New moves = good

 

[Canuckduck]

That's what i mean- the Melee Ganondorf players transitioned to the Brawl Ganondorf. So now Brawl Ganondorf can keep the new moves like Flame Choke and add on even more new ones so that the Melee Ganondorf players had time to learn Brawl Ganondorf and will adjust to Smash 4 Ganondorf. New moves = good

Agreed. Albeit Ganondorf in SSBB was severely nerfed, and most of his players from Melee who mained him dropped him.

 

[Hexaped]

Perhaps we should assume Mr. Sakurai emulated Ganondorf's aged design in the gameplay. In the Dojo, he did mention this for Ganondorf's animations.

 

[VendettⒶ]

There is a Smashboards section of versions 0.0 to. . . . 3.0 I believe of Ganondorf's D-Taunt animation, which is of course pulling out his sword, but the mid being that he keeps his sword out and has a brand new list of moves. It looks great in my opinion and I hope the pm community adds that in. I digress. . . He better be in SSB4.

 

[GamerGuy09]

There is no doubt he will be in SSB4, he has been with it since Melee so I don't think we will be left behind. However I would like 2 things:

• He will get a 100% revamped moveset.
• His old moveset will go to Blood Falcon from F Zero.

 

[Canuckduck]

There is no doubt he will be in SSB4, he has been with it since Melee so I don't think we will be left behind. However I would like 2 things:

• He will get a 100% revamped moveset.
• His old moveset will go to Blood Falcon from F Zero.

I agree that Ganondorf should be completely revamped for SSB4. However, I think that there should be only one "Captain Falcon" character in Super Smash Bros 4., and that the second representative should be Samurai Goroh.

 

[Hexaped]

Excellent idea, GamerGuy09. Though I prefer Black Shadow's design, using an actual clone of Cpt. Falcon to use Ganondorf's cloned moveset is more logical. Probably the most logical way to satisfy the various Ganondorf users without disapointing those who expect total originality for Black Shadow.

To VendettⒶ: I saw a video for a sword-weilding Ganondorf designed for Project M. Try searching YouTube. That video may have been posted here at some point, though.

 

[Morbi]

I hope Brawl was merely a transition step from full clone to semi to new character for Smash 4 so that the Falcondorf mains wouldn't have had a too hard transition.

I do not think he is going to be a completely new character; there are far too many moves that need de-cloned, I only suspect that he will change 5 or 6 of them.

 

[Hexaped]

Hmmm. Are you stating that or expecting that? Here's an idea inspired by various forums: would you like to make a wager, MorbidAltruism? I say, perhaps, 10 of Ganondorf's moves are significantly changed. I do not totally think this will happen, but I suppose I would rather imagine more changes than less changes. If you accept this wager, and you or I become correct, what should happen?

 

[Canuckduck]

Hmmm. Are you stating that or expecting that? Here's an idea inspired by various forums: would you like to make a wager, MorbidAltruism? I say, perhaps, 10 of Ganondorf's moves are significantly changed. I do not totally think this will happen, but I suppose I would rather imagine more changes than less changes. If you accept this wager, and you or I become correct, what should happen?

I, personally, don't expect Sakurai to modify Ganondorf at all. However, if he does, I will be quite impressed.

 

[Hexaped]

Ever since I saw Bowser's changes, I had an assumption. Ever since then, I felt almost guaranteed Ganondorf would be changed. The only reason I do not fully guarantee it is because I am not Mr. Sakurai, so I cannot fully guarantee whatever I think he will do. Would you like to be in this potential wager, Canuckduck? You can be the one who supposes Ganondorf remains exactly the same.

 

[Canuckduck]

Ever since I saw Bowser's changes, I had an assumption. Ever since then, I felt almost guaranteed Ganondorf would be changed. The only reason I do not fully guarantee it is because I am not Mr. Sakurai, so I cannot fully guarantee whatever I think he will do. Would you like to be in this potential wager, Canuckduck? You can be the one who supposes Ganondorf remains exactly the same.

I don't suppose Ganondorf will remain the same, I'm just assuming that Sakurai-san will view him as being fine the way he is.

To put it bluntly, no, I must politely turn down the offer, thank you.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't care that much if he ends up being a clone or semi-clone this time, I just hope he is good again.

 

[Canuckduck]

I don't care that much if he ends up being a clone or semi-clone this time, I just hope he is good again.

I agree.






























With no beard.

 

[Morbi]

I don't care that much if he ends up being a clone or semi-clone this time, I just hope he is good again.

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. It is all that is relevant. Although, I didn't honestly find him to be a horrible character for FFA which is what I predominately play. However, I intend to play online much more, so he is going to need to be better at 1v1.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't care that much if he ends up being a clone or semi-clone this time, I just hope he is good again.

Have to disagree there. If he's decloned, but still bad, I'd prefer it to playing as someone good who's not really the Ganondorf the Zelda series made me love. Playing as Mewtwo/G&W for such a long time made me not mind bad characters.

 

[Morbi]

Hmmm. Are you stating that or expecting that? Here's an idea inspired by various forums: would you like to make a wager, MorbidAltruism? I say, perhaps, 10 of Ganondorf's moves are significantly changed. I do not totally think this will happen, but I suppose I would rather imagine more changes than less changes. If you accept this wager, and you or I become correct, what should happen?

Sure, I will accept your wager. I speculate that Sakurai is only going to change 3-6 of Ganondorf's moves. You can wager 8-11, it gives you a more fair range. If 7 of his moves change, we both lose. Haha.

Have to disagree there. If he's decloned, but still bad, I'd prefer it to playing as someone good who's not really the Ganondorf the Zelda series made me love.

I agree to an extent, but I also predominately disagree. I would much rather that Ganondorf was a "bad" character with his current move-set as I am extremely fond and familiar of it. However, I am going to main Ganondorf regardless, so I suppose it would be nice to main the Ganondorf that I fell in love with.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Have to disagree there. If he's decloned, but still bad, I'd prefer it to playing as someone good who's not really the Ganondorf the Zelda series made me love. Playing as Mewtwo/G&W for such a long time made me not mind bad characters.

I am of the opposite opinion, Ganondorf should (in my personal opinion) be simply a good character. If he is not at all canon based, well then, oh well. You win some and you lose some. But of course, I would rather him be canon.

I agree.







With no beard.

Why you no likey beard?

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Hehe, we want CANON GANON!!!!!!!!
Get it, it rhymes.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

As someone who doesn't mind clone characters, it would be ok for me if Ganon were to stay as semi clone who is viable in competitive play and feels different from Cp. Falcon. Though if they declonify him even more it would be ok as well.

 

[Canuckduck]

I am of the opposite opinion, Ganondorf should (in my personal opinion) be simply a good character. If he is not at all canon based, well then, oh well. You win some and you lose some. But of course, I would rather him be canon.



Why you no likey beard?

I personally think it's a detracting feature on his face. Plus, it makes him less threatening (in my eyes).

This is how I see Ganondorf in Brawl/Twilight Princess:

 

[Hexaped]

I enjoy Ganondorf's place in the SSBB tier list! Using disadvantaged characters is fun. I certainly hope Ganondorf does not become an advantageous character. Part of what made him so fun in SSBB was the skill and patience required to succeed. I do not mind how changed his moveset becomes (though I am excited for any changes). What I do mind is his relative place in the SSB4 metagame. That is what I worry about strongly, and what I worry about alone. I feel bad when I use Ganondorf competitively in Melee due to his place in that tier list. I do not want this feeling to reoccur in SSB4.
Does everyone want Ganondorf to become more advantageous? I do not want Ganondorf above, perhaps, the D tier. And, I suppose I would rather have the long sideburns since they are more original than the chin curtain and are his oldest form of facial hair.

 

[Morbi]

I enjoy Ganondorf's place in the SSBB tier list! Using disadvantaged characters is fun. I certainly hope Ganondorf does not become an advantageous character. Part of what made him so fun in SSBB was the skill and patience required to succeed. I do not mind how changed his moveset becomes (though I am excited for any changes). What I do mind is his relative place in the SSB4 metagame. That is what I worry about strongly, and what I worry about alone. I feel bad when I use Ganondorf competitively in Melee due to his place in that tier list. I do not want this feeling to reoccur in SSB4.
Does everyone want Ganondorf to become more advantageous? I do not want Ganondorf above, perhaps, the D tier. And, I suppose I would rather have the long sideburns since they are more original than the chin curtain and are his oldest form of facial hair.

I agree, I pride myself on being a low-tier warrior. I don't want Ganondorf to be completely advantageous. I didn't mind him in Melee though, he wasn't high enough to make me feel bad, per se. However, I cannot agree on the sideburns. Beard or bust.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I enjoy Ganondorf's place in the SSBB tier list! Using disadvantaged characters is fun. I certainly hope Ganondorf does not become an advantageous character. Part of what made him so fun in SSBB was the skill and patience required to succeed. I do not mind how changed his moveset becomes (though I am excited for any changes). What I do mind is his relative place in the SSB4 metagame. That is what I worry about strongly, and what I worry about alone. I feel bad when I use Ganondorf competitively in Melee due to his place in that tier list. I do not want this feeling to reoccur in SSB4.
Does everyone want Ganondorf to become more advantageous? I do not want Ganondorf above, perhaps, the D tier. And, I suppose I would rather have the long sideburns since they are more original than the chin curtain and are his oldest form of facial hair.

D Tier? That is still really low. If the game was balanced really well, and I mean REALLY well (with tier rankings that had similar scores all the way down) then sure that might be fine. But even if you are really good at Ganondorf in Brawl, can you honestly tell me whether or not he has a reasonable chance against M2K's metaknight. Smash, as Sakurai has expressed his wish to be, is for a game with low entry level. Ideally this should mean that all characters step off on about the same footing. And since everyone will pick a favorite character, and since everyone will work to make their character more advanced in the metagame, the characters will be much more even, and therefore viable. I appreciate the fact that dedicated Ganon fans have gotten a couple tournament wins, and yet he is still ranked at the very bottom of the tier list. That shows dedication, and on a balanced footing, that would potentially give Ganon lots of wins in tournaments. Not, however, because of being OP. Rather, through the amount of fan dedication that has been poured into Ganon from all the previous games. And if other characters have such fan support, then they have the potential to win. Dedication to a character looks for disadvantages, and tries to work around them, so if it were balanced this would put more emphasis on the player rather than on the character. I guess what I'm trying to say is: I HATE SAUERKRAUT!!!! JK Sorry, really it is that more fan support equals better knowledge of a character which equals tournament wins.

 

[egaddmario]

I enjoy Ganondorf's place in the SSBB tier list! Using disadvantaged characters is fun. I certainly hope Ganondorf does not become an advantageous character. Part of what made him so fun in SSBB was the skill and patience required to succeed. I do not mind how changed his moveset becomes (though I am excited for any changes). What I do mind is his relative place in the SSB4 metagame. That is what I worry about strongly, and what I worry about alone. I feel bad when I use Ganondorf competitively in Melee due to his place in that tier list. I do not want this feeling to reoccur in SSB4.
Does everyone want Ganondorf to become more advantageous? I do not want Ganondorf above, perhaps, the D tier. And, I suppose I would rather have the long sideburns since they are more original than the chin curtain and are his oldest form of facial hair.

I know what you mean- when Olimar was revealed for Brawl, i was ecstatic. He was my most wanted newcomer. And now that the game's basically at the end of it's life cycle, he's much to high on the tier-list for my liking. I want him to be lower but not too low. I picked up Pit after Uprising because i fell in love with his character and when i saw the tier list, he's not super high either, so i feel more comfortable playing him.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I do tend to favor underused characters as well. I love Meta Knight from the Kirby series, but when I realized how overpowered and high it was on the tier list, I decided to focus on other characters.

 

[Hexaped]

To BladeOFLucas: it may be impossible to balance a large game like SSB without DLC I think. They could tweak the most disadvantaged characters that way. In games like this, there may always be an optimal and impractical choice. Blame the fact this game is based on competition, whether for glory or fun. Recently, I've been thinking of avoiding games that require a "winner," you know?
To egaddmario: you probably know, but you can try playing Olimar without using Pikmin. But that is probably too hard. I also want to play Pit in Brawl now that I appreciate the NES more.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

To BladeOFLucas: it may be impossible to balance a large game like SSB without DLC I think. They could tweak the most disadvantaged characters that way. In games like this, there may always be an optimal and impractical choice. Blame the fact this game is based on competition, whether for glory or fun. Recently, I've been thinking of avoiding games that require a "winner," you know?

You might have a point there, but what would be wrong w/ DLC, at least in the early stages? Also, perhaps it is time that Nintendo got more involved with the competitive scene. Perhaps they should include good players to excessively test the balance of certain moves. Some moves (Pit's Side-b) would very quickly be revealed as crappy moves that might just make people mad (sorry to anyone who likes that move, no offense meant). And if they just want to make Smash a jumbled mess in a way that isn't competitive in the slightest, that too is an option. I just think that a lot of characters could effectively be built upon that way. Sakurai said in an interview that we as players don't really understand what goes on in the development of a new Smash Bros, but what better way to reconcile that than to request player testing, just like a lot of games do now anyway by having select people play it. A lot of players, including myself, would jump at the chance to test it without payment, so Nintendo would have relatively limited expenses with the potential for continual sales profits. Wouldn't you want a balanced game, that isn't impossible, and it doesn't even have to be perfect just close enough to make personal preference the chief decider of character.

 

[Morbi]

I know what you mean- when Olimar was revealed for Brawl, i was ecstatic. He was my most wanted newcomer. And now that the game's basically at the end of it's life cycle, he's much to high on the tier-list for my liking. I want him to be lower but not too low. I picked up Pit after Uprising because i fell in love with his character and when i saw the tier list, he's not super high either, so i feel more comfortable playing him.

I do the same thing; in other fighting games, my favorite characters from Smash are all naturally bottom tier with the odd mid-tier character here and there (Ganondorf in Melee and Toon Link in Brawl). I am trying to do that less, I want to play as a character that I enjoy, their tier should be irrelevant. But I just love being a low-tier warrior. At the very least, when I lose with Ganondorf, I can be like, "well he is bottom for the reason."

 

[Hexaped]

I totally agree, BladeOFLucas. This sense of imbalance is arguably multiplied in Pokemon, where certain moves and Pokemon are either almost or completely outmatched by others, causing sorrow to anyone who enjoys the designs as designs. It is to difficult to use, perhaps, half of the whole cast.
But anyway, I wonder what route Mr. Sakurai takes in designing Ganondorf if he changes any moves. Mr. Sakurai already emphasizes Ganondorf's brutality.

 

[Morbi]

I totally agree, BladeOFLucas. This sense of imbalance is arguably multiplied in Pokemon, where certain moves and Pokemon are either almost or completely outmatched by others, causing sorrow to anyone who enjoys the designs as designs. It is to difficult to use, perhaps, half of the whole cast.
But anyway, I wonder what route Mr. Sakurai takes in designing Ganondorf if he changes any moves. Mr. Sakurai already emphasizes Ganondorf's brutality.

There are quite a few people that would like Ganondorf to become a sword based character; there are others who want a more magic based character. However, I am one of the few that actually feels as though Sakurai's direction of emphasizing brutality is the correct and proper way to go about it. I would love to see more of it, but at the same time, I feel like he could use more magic as he is already the definitive physical fighter.

 

[Hexaped]

It would be nice to have a move based on deserts or his Gerudo heritage. The Gerudo ladies could hop really high in OoT when they fought Link. I think this inspired Ganondof's high WW leaps.

 

[Oops!]

I also desperately want Ganondorf to come back, and have absolute faith that he will. He's been around since Melee, and he's the biggest recurring villain in one of Nintendo's biggest franchises. He's safe. That said, I would love to see him use his sword and more magic. I think he'd be an incredibly interesting character with that build. I don't mind clones too much, but Ganondorf just doesn't make sense. Fox and Falco do. But why on Earth was Ganondorf modeled after Captain Falcon? Seriously, think about it. The evil wizard king of thieves gets a moveset that also belongs to...a racing bounty hunter? It keeps me up at night.

But anyhoo, I would love to see Ganondorf completely revamped and brought into his own new moveset, and the sword and some magic would be a unique set that would be lots of fun to play with. I'd also like to see some alternate outfits for his different iterations like Ocarina Ganondorf (I love the no-cape look, and I think it makes him look faster, if that makes sense), Twilight Ganondorf, and maybe even Demise as an alt. Ganondorf has always been one of my favorite villains, and it's time his moveset gets the attention it deserves.

Of course, I'll still love playing as him even if he's got a few clone moves, cause Captain Falcon's tons of fun too.

 

[HugoBoss]

Regarding Ganondorf, I believe he has gone too long being a clone. I could care less if he has a sword, uses magic, or physically attacks. I just want the true Ganondorf to be in Super Smash Bros. Just give him anything he needs to be able to truly represent the character instead of being a semi clone of Kamen Rider Falcon. Think about it, the change could be for better, just look at Pit. He is so far shaping up to be better than his Brawl representation.

 

[Morbi]

Regarding Ganondorf, I believe he has gone too long being a clone. I could care less if he has a sword, uses magic, or physically attacks. I just want the true Ganondorf to be in Super Smash Bros. Just give him anything he needs to be able to truly represent the character instead of being a semi clone of Kamen Rider Falcon. Think about it, the change could be for better, just look at Pit.

I agree; they could change a few things to make him resemble his games more. Dead man's volley is a good example, it could be his new neutral special.

 

[Canuckduck]

I agree; they could change a few things to make him resemble his games more. Dead man's volley is a good example, it could be his new neutral special.

I suppose he could be a swordsman, like Marth or Link.

His final smash could be a transformation into Ganon.

 

[Hexaped]

Thanks for reminding me of a possible Final Smash change. As someone posted before, I do not exactly want dead man's volley as a special. It is a projectile! But it definitely should be referenced somewhere. Long ago I thought it could be Ganondorf's final smash, but Ganon is too important. I want dead man's volley to be an occasional move, not a move Ganondorf can uses whenever he wants. It could be unfair to use such a distracting move freely, anyway. I would be OK with dead man's volley if it had to be charged before use, definitely!

 

[Canuckduck]

Thanks for reminding me of a possible Final Smash change. As someone posted before, I do not exactly want dead man's volley as a special. It is a projectile! But it definitely should be referenced somewhere. Long ago I thought it could be Ganondorf's final smash, but Ganon is too important. I want dead man's volley to be an occasional move, not a move Ganondorf can uses whenever he wants. It could be unfair to use such a distracting move freely, anyway. I would be OK with dead man's volley if it had to be charged before use, definitely!

The only problem I see with Dead Man's Volley is how it would be implemented. It's essentially a *deadly* game of volleyball, so how could he use that a special/final smash?