Ganondorf

[PLATINUM7]

I have a feeling he was not originally part of the development team's plans (hence the uninspired moveset with a character who has near limitless amounts of moves), but since many fans like us were basically orgasming at the sight of Gdorf at the Space Demo 2000, they were quite pressured to add him in. They obviously were inspired by the demo with the inclusion of same Ootish artwork while retaining the same sword design while also mysteriously making the same sword disappear. Quite a head scratcher.

IIRC the clones in Melee were added last minute because the roster seemed too small. Ganondorf made it in because he had a similar body shape to Captain Falcon.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Meh, Ganondorf deserved to be in melee, no matter what... if we're "what iffing" I'd just say that I wish they invested the appropriate amount of time into making him the character he should have been.

I am in the camp that if Gdorf does get changed significantly, i.e. be given a sword, I would like to see Black Shadow take the old gdorf moveset.

Everybody is in the camp for giving him significant changes. Everybody was just arguing over weapon really.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Everybody is in the camp for giving him significant changes. Everybody was just arguing over weapon really.

Well, not everybody...
*cough* Sakurai *cough*

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Well, not everybody...
*cough* Sakurai *cough*

Hands are the greatest weapons of ALL HARHAR sakurai know all 2 well. Xd

 

[Kamiko]

Fighting the kids would not doing any services to anyone, so his fight was more unexpected than most as his plan went his way for the most part, and just at the last second went awry. Why not kill the old man? The he knows the outcome is inevitable but tests the kids for no real reason. Using two swords seemed to have nulled his magical skill and the savagery of the brute force of Ganondorf.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here, but I don't see how using two swords instead of one had anything to do with the fact that Ganondorf didn't use magic in that fight. Although it's entirely possible that magic is why he was jumping so high.

He is still imposing without it yes, but not as intimidating. People would not herald him as a god if he did not posses the ToP and if anything, he would be regarded as near the end boss instead of a final boss and to me that spells ruination of a great villain.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have it, I was just agreeing with you that it's just as stolen as the sword from TP. The difference between the two though, is that the Triforce is something that Ganondorf wanted, and has been shown with in multiple games, whereas the sword is something that just happened to get thrown his way and he took advantage of it. If he were to choose any weapon he wishes, I highly doubt it would be that sword.

On the topic of intimidation, I don't see how one sword is as intimidating as two without being larger.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here, but I don't see how using two swords instead of one had anything to do with the fact that Ganondorf didn't use magic in that fight. Although it's entirely possible that magic is why he was jumping so high.


I'm not saying he shouldn't have it, I was just agreeing with you that it's just as stolen as the sword from TP. The difference between the two though, is that the Triforce is something that Ganondorf wanted, and has been shown with in multiple games, whereas the sword is something that just happened to get thrown his way and he took advantage of it. If he were to choose any weapon he wishes, I highly doubt it would be that sword.

On the topic of intimidation, I don't see how one sword is as intimidating as two without being larger.

I don't think intimidation derives from weapons in the first place. Intimidation is an instinctual programming in our mind the comes as a warning from a dangerous person. People don't look at swords and say " in scared lets go home" But when an average person holds the weapon your instincts kick in telling you the person just got a whole lot more dangerous. So ganondorf in general should be quite intimidating with or with out the weapon.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here, but I don't see how using two swords instead of one had anything to do with the fact that Ganondorf didn't use magic in that fight. Although it's entirely possible that magic is why he was jumping so high.


I'm not saying he shouldn't have it, I was just agreeing with you that it's just as stolen as the sword from TP. The difference between the two though, is that the Triforce is something that Ganondorf wanted, and has been shown with in multiple games, whereas the sword is something that just happened to get thrown his way and he took advantage of it. If he were to choose any weapon he wishes, I highly doubt it would be that sword. True, but he could also not have wanted it by merely not knowing it existed. Ganon is an opportune thief that would steal anything that would further his conquest for power, and the Sword of Sages sounds like something he would steal had he known about it.

On the topic of intimidation, I don't see how one sword is as intimidating as two without being larger. This is just my personal opinion. I believe if someone is so confident to fight you on the same level or lower (Ganon lacks a shield), they must be so BA and are truly on another level of power.

 

[Kamiko]

True, but he could also not have wanted it by merely not knowing it existed. Ganon is an opportune thief that would steal anything that would further his conquest for power, and the Sword of Sages sounds like something he would steal had he known about it.

If it was worth anything, then yes, but it really doesn't seem like it would be all that useful to him. It's power seems divine in nature, so unless he decides to start slaying demons or something, then it's probably jnot much better than a regular sword in his hands.

This is just my personal opinion. I believe if someone is so confident to fight you on the same level or lower (Ganon lacks a shield), they must be so BA and are truly on another level of power.

I agree with the general idea here, but I don't view going shieldless as a handicap. Since Ganondorf has the skill to effectively block and deflect attacks with a weapon, he can afford to use two for more offense without losing much in the way of defense. If he's going to handicap himself though, he may as well not use a weapon at all. We've seen that he can block arrows, so as long as his forearms stay armored it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he can go unarmed against swords just fine. That's why I'm fine with seeing him stay swordless in Smash 4, even if it's not what I normally want.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

If it was worth anything, then yes, but it really doesn't seem like it would be all that useful to him. It's power seems divine in nature, so unless he decides to start slaying demons or something, then it's probably jnot much better than a regular sword in his hands.


I agree with the general idea here, but I don't view going shieldless as a handicap. Since Ganondorf has the skill to effectively block and deflect attacks with a weapon, he can afford to use two for more offense without losing much in the way of defense. If he's going to handicap himself though, he may as well not use a weapon at all. We've seen that he can block arrows, so as long as his forearms stay armored it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he can go unarmed against swords just fine. That's why I'm fine with seeing him stay swordless in Smash 4, even if it's not what I normally want.

Dependent on ones swordplay having a shield can or won't be useful. Give a shield to a samurai won't add a better defensive nature since swift precise combat is what they work with. As a samurai you must focus on countering or avoiding since lifting a shield would open him up for a fatal slice. How? Their weapons are light. Meaning the energy to lift a shield would be slower and cost more energy than that of simple sword lift and strike again.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Dependent on ones swordplay having a shield can or won't be useful. Give a shield to a samurai won't add a better defensive nature since swift precise combat is what they work with. As a samurai you must focus on countering or avoiding since lifting a shield would open him up for a fatal slice. How? Their weapons are light. Meaning the energy to lift a shield would be slower and cost more energy than that of simple sword lift and strike again.

Ganon is an opportune thief and warlock not a samurai. He is so confident in his own skills that a mere shield would only slow him down. This man/beast believes that power and ultimate raw power is the way to go. He does not fiddle with something like a shield.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Ganon is an opportune thief and warlock not a samurai. He is so confident in his own skills that a mere shield would only slow him down. This man/beas believes that power and ultimate raw power is the way to go. He does fidle with something like a shield.

i never said he was a samurai and in the end your kinda agreeing with my point.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Why mention it though?

 

[3Bismyname]

Why mention it though?

he was making a real life comparison.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Mmk I guess, but considering a couple pages back, this same guy was questioning why I was mentioning real life people also, so I was surprised that he brought it up. In fact here are my two posts:"I don't know how h2h combat is more evil, but that is your opinion. Attila the Hut and Vlad the Impaler were known for their brutality and their WEAPONRY, 2 of histories cruelest people used weapons. Your argument is flawed as you claim not to make Ganon generic yet keep pushing for the OOT moveset and what revamp are you looking for? The h2h combat is a shameless copy of CF, if Ganon had his swords/magic/brutality, the whole h2h love would have been lost if the Sakurai put some time and effort."

His reply:"Ps i dont know why you started spouting real brutal figures when comparing them to a fictional character. We all kow the deeds done in fantasy are on a completely different scale from whats done in real life. And generally the people who enjoy choking the life out of you tends to be the super evil mofo's."

Post #2:"The reason I brought real figures is because you say that swords are boring and those mofos were not boring. Vlad used weapons hands, feet, genitalia;etc. Most samurai use one hand per sword following
Miyamoto Musashi's strategy for to be a good samurai, you need to be quick and have a free hand open and to never swing with both as the drag is too much. Ganon's magic also would not make him BA"

His reply:"The rest i find irreverent to fantasy characters where none of that matters."

Either this is just an inconsistency in his argument or there is some sort virus going around where doublespeaking/doublethinking (know the reference) is a common practice. I believe that it is the latter.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Mmk I guess, but considering a couple pages back, this same guy was questioning why I was mentioning real life people also, so I was surprised that he brought it up. In fact here are my two posts:"I don't know how h2h combat is more evil, but that is your opinion. Attila the Hut and Vlad the Impaler were known for their brutality and their WEAPONRY, 2 of histories cruelest people used weapons. Your argument is flawed as you claim not to make Ganon generic yet keep pushing for the OOT moveset and what revamp are you looking for? The h2h combat is a shameless copy of CF, if Ganon had his swords/magic/brutality, the whole h2h love would have been lost if the Sakurai put some time and effort."

His reply:"Ps i dont know why you started spouting real brutal figures when comparing them to a fictional character. We all kow the deeds done in fantasy are on a completely different scale from whats done in real life. And generally the people who enjoy choking the life out of you tends to be the super evil mofo's."

Post #2:"The reason I brought real figures is because you say that swords are boring and those mofos were not boring. Vlad used weapons hands, feet, genitalia;etc. Most samurai use one hand per sword following
Miyamoto Musashi's strategy for to be a good samurai, you need to be quick and have a free hand open and to never swing with both as the drag is too much. Ganon's magic also would not make him BA"

His reply:"The rest i find irreverent to fantasy characters where none of that matters."

Either this is just an inconsistency in his argument or there is some sort virus going around where doublespeaking/doublethinking (know the reference) is a common practice. I believe that it is the latter.

LOl i was not making a life comparison i was making a fighting comparison, I was just stating the it is dependent on what fighting style you have for for a shield to be useful. I don't know how u did not get that from my previous post but you ended up agreeing with me while being argumentative about it witch kinda make me feel like you never read my entire post and only read part of it.
Ps: if you think samurai haven't had their form of fantasy's that a little weird. Look at the stories of the 47 ronin.

 

[Man Li Gi]

LOl i was not making a life comparison i was making a fighting comparison, I was just stating the it is dependent on what fighting style you have for for a shield to be useful. I don't know how u did not get that from my previous post but you ended up agreeing with me while being argumentative about it witch kinda make me feel like you never read my entire post and only read part of it.
Ps: if you think samurai haven't had their form of fantasy's that a little weird. Look at the stories of the 47 ronin.

I read the entirety, but for some reason I brought up Miyamoto Musashi, who is considered to be the master of samurai techniques, for fighting styles and yet you threw it out as if it met nothing. A couple pages later you are saying the same thing I was talking about only leaving out Musashi's name.

 

[LaniusShrike]

This has become a confusing conversation.

For one, Samurai are generally imagined as wielding one katana, but Miyamoto Musashi pioneered the technique of wielding two blades.
For two, I can't figure out if there's a point to either/any side of this, ha.

... also, Vlad the Impaler isn't a famous warrior, he's a famous ***hole. He isn't about weapons of war, he's about instruments of torture.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I read the entirety, but for some reason I brought up Miyamoto Musashi, who is considered to be the master of samurai techniques, for fighting styles and yet you threw it out as if it met nothing. A couple pages later you are saying the same thing I was talking about only leaving out Musashi's name.

Lol but you brought him up in the sence that he was brutal and had a weapon. But what im saying is that not all fighting styles benefit from a shield witch you agree with, but you read into it in a different way. But perhaps that's my fault for not being clear enough but you get my point yet?

 

[Man Li Gi]

Lol but you brought him up in the sence that he was brutal and had a weapon. But what im saying is that not all fighting styles benefit from a shield witch you agree with, but you read into it in a different way. But perhaps that's my fault for not being clear enough but you get my point yet?

Read in a different way? Musashi brutal? I am afraid you did not read the previous posts as the term or implication of Musashi being cruel/brutal never occurred. All I used was Musashi's thoughts about shields in battles. Actually the point I have made, is the same point you are trying to make. So, do you get my point?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Read in a different way? Musashi brutal? I am afraid you did not read the previous posts as the term or implication of Musashi being cruel/brutal never occurred. All I used was Musashi's thoughts about shields in battles. Actually the point I have made, is the same point you are trying to make. So, do you get my point?

hmm iv seem to have infuriated you. And i apologize but this is admitting that i was talking about fighting styles and not life comparisons to brutal people correct? And so i guess i get your point but my point is that shields are not necessity the context in witch you speak is toward a different argument completely.

 

[Man Li Gi]

hmm iv seem to have infuriated you. And i apologize but this is admitting that i was talking about fighting styles and not life comparisons to brutal people correct? And so i guess i get your point but my point is that shields are not necessity the context in witch you speak is toward a different argument completely.

Again, I am ignoring the my first 2 comparisons of brutality, but for some reason you are also ignoring the earlier point that I made about Musashi's style. Your point is my point.

 

[Pacack]

Hey, Ganon fans! I'm working on a project that you might have heard of called Project: Thank You Sakurai! (If you haven't heard of it, you should check it out.) and I'm currently doing a poll to determine which characters should be on the virtual card that we're making for him. I would appreciate it if you guys would check it out here and vote for who you like. The only lock from the Zelda series for the card right now is Link himself, but Zelda (who is really close to breaking into lock territory), Ganondorf, and Toon Link are all also on the poll and need some support (especially Ganon). I would really appreciate it if you would take the time to tell me your thoughts and maybe even get Ganondorf in (especially since I already have some artwork of him that don't want to go to waste).

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Again, I am ignoring the my first 2 comparisons of brutality, but for some reason you are also ignoring the earlier point that I made about Musashi's style. Your point is my point.

im not ignoring it i accept it completely and that why in my second comment to this argument i said you agreed with me. -.-

 

[Man Li Gi]

im not ignoring it i accept it completely and that why in my second comment to this argument i said you agreed with me. -.-

But that is exactly my point, your point is no different than my point. What you have done is go around and eventually agreed with one of my earlier posts.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

But that is exactly my point, your point is no different than my point. What you have done is go around and eventually agreed with one of my earlier posts.

Then why did you start arguing with me -.- if we agreed like i said we did.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Then why did you start arguing with me -.- if we agreed like i said we did.

Since you first disregarded my statement then came back to it and said "Yeah I came up with this".

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Since you first disregarded my statement then came back to it and said "Yeah I came up with this".

Did i ever say i came up with it? i disregarded the the whole real people thing. But hey if you want you point take your point. since i don't know how it went from agreeing with me to "that's my point take if back you can't use my point." ect you should be happy people agree with you instead or instigating them.

 

[Man Li Gi]

No. You seem to not understand that I don't care about credit (yet), but what I am beefing about is that you were quick to dismiss it, then came back to it which made the other posts quite meaningless (though this argument itself is quite meaningless).

 

[LaniusShrike]

Yep, whatever's going on seems pretty friggin' pointless. Let's move on, yes?

... not that there's anything new to talk about regarding Ganondorf anyway, really.
So, do we think he'll be revealed before the game or at release? And are we banking on him being Twilight Princess but more colorful?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Yep, whatever's going on seems pretty friggin' pointless. Let's move on, yes?

... not that there's anything new to talk about regarding Ganondorf anyway, really.
So, do we think he'll be revealed before the game or at release? And are we banking on him being Twilight Princess but more colorful?

Lol i posted this before but if he shows up n game i would want him to look like his concept art.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Hairy palms, eh...?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Hairy palms, eh...?

i know....sexy

 

[RODO]

I think he should have a sword(s) implemented in his moveset but not actually carried around. Think Ness's bat for example.

 

[MasterofMonster]

That Ganondorf is badass, but... hairy knuckles looks... silly. XD

And yes, give Ganondorf his Sword for his Three Smash attacks, should be enough.
Still really hope his Down Special will become 'Ganon', ala Zelda to Sheik~

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

New special move input...

down - Earthquake Punch: Ganondorf dives down to the ground, with his fist angled downwards. Upon hitting the ground, he creates a shockwave that sends ground targets flying vertically. The fist itself can even deal high damage, and it has Meteor Smash properties. However, the attack does have ending lag that opponents can take advantage of if they've avoided it.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Ganondorf
Special: Dark Magic. Charges a Ball of (evil) light above his head as a projectile. Has to be fully charged to work.
Side Special: Dark Steed. Like Wario on his Bike, Ganondorf summons his horse and charges. Horse disappears when he is hit.
Down Special: Ganon. Like Zelda to Sheik, Ganondorf becomed Pig Ganon, a Bowser-sized character with a Trident.
Up Special: Cape. On ground, he spins around with his cape, deflecting. But in air, he gains a small third jump, while also deflecting projectiles.
Final Smash: Beast Ganon. Remains the same.

He also uses his TP Sword for Side and Down Smashes, and his Up Smash uses the sword from Melee.
This is the moveset I wanna see.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

That Ganondorf is badass, but... hairy knuckles looks... silly. XD

And yes, give Ganondorf his Sword for his Three Smash attacks, should be enough.
Still really hope his Down Special will become 'Ganon', ala Zelda to Sheik~

I think Ganondorf in that pic kind of looks a bit like Manky Kong.

I totally agree down b transform into Ganon would be pretty cool.

I love @ MasterofMonster 's idea of the move Cape, that would be a great idea for the recovery move, however he needs improvement in air, so I am a bit scepticle about this idea.

 

[MasterofMonster]

I think Ganondorf in that pic kind of looks a bit like Manky Kong.

I totally agree down b transform into Ganon would be pretty cool.

I love @ MasterofMonster 's idea of the move Cape, that would be a great idea for the recovery move, however he needs improvement in air, so I am a bit scepticle about this idea.

First time I've ever Heard of Manky Kong. XD So many Kongs. Their family reunions would be insane.

And thank you, yeah, playing as Classic Pig Ganon with a trident would be Amazing.
And well, this Ganondorf is extremely strong in almost every way, so I thought a slightly bad recovery would be the best way to balance him. But at least he can reflect at the same time as he jumps back on-stage. ^^

 

[Man Li Gi]

Complete accident, but I found this awesomeness. Really interesting look on the Warlock.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Complete accident, but I found this awesomeness. Really interesting look on the Warlock.

I believe this was shown earlier in the thread, And yeah it looks neat but i would prefer a move set over haul than just adding range and effects everywhere. It honestly looked kinda broken