Ganondorf

[MasterOfKnees]

Who's Gannondrof, by the way?

Must be Meta Knight's alias.

 

[| Kailex |]

I just want to see him back T^T

 

[Komenja]

I just want to see him back T^T

Same here. Preferably re-introducing his fists and boots to the other characters. I don't mind if they change Ganon's moveset, so long as he's still mostly a physical character with magical affects to his attacks and some of his melee/brawl moves like Flame choke and the Dair.

 

[Bowserlick]

Bowser has a new running animation, aerial dodge, what appears to be a new aerial neutral A, a new forward Smash, and a new dash attack.

I think it is time to rework Ganondorf's moveset.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I don't think Ganondorf being a sword character is the answer, although maybe his sword can be included as one of his A attacks, also maybe include the trident in the A moveset, otherwise he needs to be a physical attacker, and there is nothing wrong with a few fist attacks, shoulder attack, kicks, but they need to make them look like his own moves.

Keep the A left/right kick, he actually does that.

His B moveset really needs changed,

B: I'm tired of Ganon Punch, I'd rather the B attack be that energy ball he often uses in a few Zelda games.

: Keep the Flame Choke maybe, he actually did this in Twilight Princess, and it's the first B move changed from being cloned.

Bv: I'd like to see something like how he dives down diagonally and punches the ground, maybe even add like a earthquake strike effect.

B^: I was thinking that flaming keese thing he does Link to the Past when he flies into the Pyramid, that or some sort of teleportation he did in a Zelda game.

Another thing they could do to decline Ganondorf is change Captain Falcon's moveset a little as well.

 

[Bowserlick]

Changes to Ganondorf's Moveset​

​

Specials​

B Energy Sphere: Tosses an energy sphere. Startup lag similar to Falcon Punch. Can't be dodged. Ball occupies dodge space, although sidestepping or dodging will result in less knockback. Can be reflected with an attack. Grows bigger with each attack and requires a stronger attack to reflect each time. Only one sphere per Ganondorf on screen at a time.​

Up B Warlock Levitation: Floats for a limited time. Press of A will cause him to come crashing down with a fist that causes a shockwave when it hits the ground.​

Down B Vortex Grip: Ganondorf's fists glow purple, his cape flows backwards and a vacuum effect (similar to his Up A Leg lift) pulls in opponents and projectiles directly in front of him. If an enemy collides with Ganondorf's chest, an electrical shock with knock them back with stun.​

*Uses include slowing down his energy sphere to confuse the opponent's timing if they planned on hitting it back and dragging in enemies for close up fighting.​

Smashes​

Forward Smash Sword Strike: Materializes a sword from dark energy and swings it downwards in front of his body​

Down Smash Dark Palm: Faces screen, creates a crackling purple orb of energy between his hands in front of his chest, then rips it apart and extends electrical palms outwards on both sides.​

Up Smash Rising Warlock Punch: A weaker yet chargeable Warlock punch that strikes above Ganondorf​

Tilts​

Up Tilt: Old Up Smash​

Aerials​

Up A: Stretches his arms above his head and a dark electric current jumps between palms for a second​

Neutral A: A single strong kick as he yells like a beast​

Dash​

Creates an electrical trident that he stabs forward​

 

[LaniusShrike]

Changes to Ganondorf's Moveset​

​

Specials​

B Energy Sphere: Tosses an energy sphere. Startup lag similar to Falcon Punch. Can't be dodged. Ball occupies dodge space, although sidestepping or dodging will result in less knockback. Can be reflected with an attack. Grows bigger with each attack and requires a stronger attack to reflect each time. Only one sphere per Ganondorf on screen at a time.​

​

Up B Warlock Levitation: Floats for a limited time. Press of A will cause him to come crashing down with a fist that causes a shockwave when it hits the ground.​

​

Down B Vortex Grip: Ganondorf's fists glow purple, his cape flows backwards and a vacuum effect (similar to his Up A Leg lift) pulls in opponents and projectiles directly in front of him. If an enemy collides with Ganondorf's chest, an electrical shock with knock them back with stun.​

​

*Uses include slowing down his energy sphere to confuse the opponent's timing if they planned on hitting it back and dragging in enemies for close up fighting.​

​

Smashes​

Forward Smash Sword Strike: Materializes a sword from dark energy and swings it downwards in front of his body​

​

Down Smash Dark Palm: Faces screen, creates a crackling purple orb of energy between his hands in front of his chest, then rips it apart and extends electrical palms outwards on both sides.​

​

Up Smash Rising Warlock Punch: A weaker yet chargeable Warlock punch that strikes above Ganondorf​

​

Tilts​

Up Tilt: Old Up Smash​

​

Aerials​

Up A: Stretches his arms above his head and a dark electric current jumps between palms for a second​

​

Neutral A: A single strong kick as he yells like a beast​

​

Dash​

Creates an electrical trident that he stabs forward​

I still like it. I also still think it'd be cool if hitting B while he's Warlock Levitating would have him shoot off Energy Spheres diagonally downwards.

 

[Bowserlick]

That would add a nice dynamic, although it might change the volley sphere to more of an edge guard move and less of a way to approach as well as a built in mini-game.

 

[Erimir]

Such an easy to reflect projectile, combined with being a very slow move like Falcon Punch, wouldn't be very useful. Would you really expect to hit anyone with that?

If you really want it to be able to be reflected like in the Zelda games, at least I would say that it has to be reflected by a melee weapon (and of course specials that normally reflect projectiles). And going with tradition, that can include some things that aren't normal weapons (like the fan, frying pan, and of course Villager's bug net). It would also become faster when reflected. At the same time, I'd want to say that Ganondorf can reflect his own projectiles with any attack, even a jab.

 

[Bowserlick]

Not all of Ganondorf's attacks are slow. As a solution, you can have Ganondorf negate ending lag when he hits his projectile on his attack.

And the projectile would require a certain amount of power to reflect with each hit as it grows bigger. With his power and ability to recover from a volley, Ganondorf would have the edge.

Plus the projectile should not be spammable. So this would force a Ganondorf player to use it with a little more restraint.

 

[Erimir]

I don't see the point in making it a mini-game that Ganondorf has much of any chance of losing. If it's still a relatively slow attack, it's not going to be that great to spam. Making it so that Ganondorf can easily win any back and forth volley isn't going to change that.

If it's as slow as Falcon Punch, it's not going to be great to use at all, much less to spam. Falcon Punch is not used often, and if it could be reflected back in your face, it would be used even less.

And giving people the ability to easily reflect it just means that if they didn't already avoid it in the first place because it's slow, they can simply reflect it and then jump out of the way before you send it back.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Why not just have his energy orb be a projectile period?

Why bother making it complicated with the volley thing, that's for Zelda games, not Super Smash Bros, the attack is supposed to represent that the fact that he does use it in Zelda games, it doesn't need to be the exact same thing.

Look at Zelda's Din's Fire, that was done perfectly, though making it the actual Din's Fire from OoT would be cool too, the attack works fine the way it is, oh and no volleying.

If anything the energy orb should be a bit like Din's Fire if anything, maybe the same thing, and maybe to avoid it being a move cloned from Zelda's moveset, they can change her Din's Fire to be more like the one in OoT.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Why not just have his energy orb be a projectile period?

Why bother making it complicated with the volley thing, that's for Zelda games, not Super Smash Bros, the attack is supposed to represent that the fact that he does use it in Zelda games, it doesn't need to be the exact same thing.

Look at Zelda's Din's Fire, that was done perfectly, though making it the actual Din's Fire from OoT would be cool too, the attack works fine the way it is, oh and no volleying.

If anything the energy orb should be a bit like Din's Fire if anything, maybe the same thing, and maybe to avoid it being a move cloned from Zelda's moveset, they can change her Din's Fire to be more like the one in OoT.

Agreed-- My preferred version of the Energy Sphere (Dead Man's Volley) is one where essentially you can tap it for a quicker, weaker projectile or hold it down for a second before releasing for a larger, deadlier, and slower projectile.

I don't think a reflection mechanic is necessary, since Smash already has a lot of reflection mechanics in the game. Sure, Link wouldn't necessarily be able to reflect it, but...
Uhm, whatever. Let Gdorf win every now and then.

 

[Bowserlick]

B moves are usually a very recognizable, almost defining ability. I would want it to be Dead Man's Volley.
1. Make it half or a third the speed of Falcon Punch, without ending lag for Ganondorf
2. The sphere grows which each hit and requires more power to be sent back
3. It could break through reflectors if has enough power
4. Only one on screen at a time
5. Eats through shields
7. Does small damage if dodged (occupies dodge space)

Ganondorf should not be a spamming character. He is a power character. Thus his projectile should be about power. If you don't want it in your face, you are going to have to hit it back.

 

[_R@bid_]

I'd remove the reflect mechanic entirely, and replace it with a new one. Just like most projectiles, it can, normally, only be reflected by reflectors. Also, once it has been reflected, any of Ganondorf's moves can reflect it back, making it grow and become stronger.That way, rather than becoming a mechanic that automatically slows down the fight and turns it into a campy reflect fest that completely contradicts Ganondorf's normal play style, it's a slow, powerful tool for approach that an enemy is actually afraid of reflecting, allowing him to get in easier while making the enemy much more intimidated, and more likely to make a mistake he can punish with his great strength.

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright that makes sense as another option.

I like the ability for strong attacks to bounce the sphere. A bit of downside to Ganondorf having a projectile.

 

[Ryan.]

I want to see Ganondorf return, but not as a slower Captain Falcon. I think he should be able to use his sword, maybe his normal special being taking it out or putting it away.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I want to see Ganondorf return, but not as a slower Captain Falcon. I think he should be able to use his sword, maybe his normal special being taking it out or putting it away.

So you're saying he could switch his combat from close hand to sword combat?

I like that idea!

 

[Ryan.]

So you're saying he could switch his combat from close hand to sword combat?

I like that idea!

Yep, exactly. Thank you haha.

 

[BigJ]

Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if Ganondorf was excluded all together. He'll never be as good as his Melee counterpart. That being said, I think they should either give him a brand new moveset, or just drop him altogether.

Also, One interesting thing to think about (probably already mentioned, but what the hell) is the way Ganon could look in this game. I heard that there was no Ganondorf in Skyward Sword, so the team would have to create a Skyward Sword style Ganondorf, in the same way they created a Twilight Princess style Shiek. That could mean that he would have an entirely new moveset (hopefully including a weapon) to go with the brand new look.

All of this is fun to think about

 

[Hong]

I am not a big Ganny fan but I will say I would be a bit disheartened if the triforce did not complete itself. >~<

Personally I expect him getting a rework as well.

 

[IsmaR]

I am not a big Ganny fan but I will say I would be a bit disheartened if the triforce did not complete itself. >~<

Insert line of Ghiranim/Demise fanboys saying the Triforce of Power left him in Twilight Princess' ending.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Also, One interesting thing to think about (probably already mentioned, but what the hell) is the way Ganon could look in this game. I heard that there was no Ganondorf in Skyward Sword, so the team would have to create a Skyward Sword style Ganondorf, in the same way they created a Twilight Princess style Shiek. That could mean that he would have an entirely new moveset (hopefully including a weapon) to go with the brand new look.

All of this is fun to think about

Sheik's design is based off of a scrapped concept art from during development of Twilight Princess, the Brawl team didn't make it (Source: http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/sheik.html), so getting a brand new Ganondorf design is unlikely, especially given that Link's design is based off of Twilight Princess (make no mistake, vibrant colors doesn't mean that he's from Skyward Sword), making it a given that they'll just use the TP Ganondorf design again.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai never stated it was scrapped design. Literally, he said it was "a design that was drafted up during development of that game".

Hyrule Historia's page on Sheik's concept art states that it was drawn for Brawl. Twilight Princess was being developed when Brawl started development.
Ergo, the design was drawn up during development of Twilight Princess, though specifically to use for Zelda's appearance in Brawl, which takes her TP design.


But beside the point, we're very likely going to get TP Ganon again, but perhaps with some graphical updates to match Skyward Sword much like how Smash 4 uses TP Link with SS-styled coloration.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I actually don't think he'll get a huge renovation, unfortunately. I would really, really like it if they fixed him up and made him more representative of his appearances, but...

I'm worried that Sakurai doesn't really admit mistakes like that, ha. And, while the "put Black Shadow in to take his old moveset" is widely discussed here, we have absolutely no way of knowing if that's ever crossed his mind. It's not exactly a traditional thing to do.

 

[Bowserlick]

There is no need to preserve Ganondorf's old moveset with Black Shadow. Characters change from game to game. Some more than others. Bowser feels different in both games so far and will feel different again. At least change Ganondorf's specials so he is the Ganondorf from his games.

 

[LaniusShrike]

There is no need to preserve Ganondorf's old moveset with Black Shadow. Characters change from game to game. Some more than others. Bowser feels different in both games so far and will feel different again. At least change Ganondorf's specials so he is the Ganondorf from his games.

For me, the main thing is that I rather like the concept of clones with drastically different stats. I think Black Shadow as a slow but powerful Falcon clone not only makes tons of sense, but it's really fun. It just, well, doesn't make any sense with Ganondorf.

I also wish that Wolf was a slow but powerful Fox clone and I wouldn't hate seeing faster clones of the slow characters.

So, Black Shadow taking Gdorf's moveset isn't some sort of compromise for me... I would play both characters, so I want both characters.

 

[Bowserlick]

I think I would want Sakurai to strive for varied movesets with characters that he wants to represent.

Semi-clones and clones seem to make more sense to me as a downloadable package after the game's release.

The creative movesets of Villager, Megaman and to a lesser extent Wii Fit Trainer are really getting me pumped for this game.

I do feel Ganondorf was screwed over being a clone. Because he could have been in Brawl as his first fighter with a moveset from his games.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I think I would want Sakurai to strive for varied movesets with characters that he wants to represent.

Semi-clones and clones seem to make more sense to me as a downloadable package after the game's release.

The creative movesets of Villager, Megaman and to a lesser extent Wii Fit Trainer are really getting me pumped for this game.

I do feel Ganondorf was screwed over being a clone. Because he could have been in Brawl as his first fighter with a moveset from his games.

If Smash did DLC, I'd definitely agree that clones/semi-clones would be ideal for DLC.

Yeah, I think we can all agree that Gdorf didn't deserve the cloning... but wasn't Sakurai quoted at one point saying that Ganondorf is his favorite character to play as in Smash?

If that's true, then that might be another good reason for Sakurai to keep his old moveset in some form.

 

[FalKoopa]

but wasn't Sakurai quoted at one point saying that Ganondorf is his favorite character to play as in Smash?

If that's true, then that might be another good reason for Sakurai to keep his old moveset in some form.

That's true. Sakurai mains Ganondorf.

I think Sakurai was a bit desparate to add Ganondorf in Melee. He was the most requested Zelda character in the Melee poll.

 

[LaniusShrike]

That's true. Sakurai mains Ganondorf.

I think Sakurai was a bit desparate to add Ganondorf in Melee. He was the most requested Zelda character in the Melee poll.

Knowing all that, I just get confused when I think about the fact that Gdorf was thrown in near the end and with a lazy cloning. He's so important to Nintendo, he's probably Nintendo's second most iconic villain of all time.

Sighhh.

 

[Z1GMA]

B Energy Sphere: Tosses an energy sphere. Startup lag similar to Falcon Punch. Can't be dodged. Ball occupies dodge space, although sidestepping or dodging will result in less knockback. Can be reflected with an attack. Grows bigger with each attack and requires a stronger attack to reflect each time. Only one sphere per Ganondorf on screen at a time.​

%-wise or knockback-wise?

I like the idea, especially if the "Tennis Fight" is slightly in Ganon's favour, other than due to his powerful attacks.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I am not fan of the tennis-ball energy sphere attack. Only the Master Sword is able to cast Ganon's magic back at him. Then again, Ganondorf has a rough time dealing with Peach's attacks involving her butt, so it isn't all THAT out of place probably.

 

[Shotguner159]

Only the Master Sword is able to cast Ganon's magic back at him.

And Empty Bottles, the Biggoron Sword and the Megaton Hammer. And the Bug-Catching Net can do it to Agahnim's.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, that being said, Peach's butt would probably be able to do the same...

 

[LaniusShrike]

I am not fan of the tennis-ball energy sphere attack. Only the Master Sword is able to cast Ganon's magic back at him. Then again, Ganondorf has a rough time dealing with Peach's attacks involving her butt, so it isn't all THAT out of place probably.

And Empty Bottles, the Biggoron Sword and the Megaton Hammer. And the Bug-Catching Net can do it to Agahnim's.

Yeah... I mean, basically anything that Link can swing fully reflects these blasts. I don't really want the reflecting mechanic as an ingrained part of the move simply because at a certain point it stops being intuitive, and to me Smash is all about being an intuitive system.

It would make me kind of sad if Link wasn't able to reflect the blast... maybe Link's Fsmash should reflect things like Ness's, who knows.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

That's true. Sakurai mains Ganondorf.

I think Sakurai was a bit desparate to add Ganondorf in Melee. He was the most requested Zelda character in the Melee poll.

Sakurai mains Ganondorf, really?

I didn't know that.

I'm thinking we might get OoT Ganondorf, think about it, OoT Ganondorf not to be consfused with Melee Ganondorf or Space Demo Ganondorf can actually play like Melee Ganondorf, except new moveset.

I don't think we will see the sword, unless it's one of A moves or he has a move that can switch from close hand combat to sword combat.

As for his energy orb, I think he really should have it so he has at least one projectile.

His down B should be turned from a Falcon Kick mimic to more of a Bowser Bomb like move where he leaps up and dives diagonally at his opponent kind of like how he does in the OoT boss fight.

Trident should be in his moveset somewhere.

About his Trident and sword being in his moveset, it is possible, especially considering what they did with Pit, but I don't see him a full sword style player like Marth.

 

[Kamiko]

Sakurai maining Ganondorf? Where was this said? I have to know for the sake of boosting my Gerudo pride.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Sakurai maining Ganondorf? Where was this said? I have to know for the sake of boosting my Gerudo pride.

As far as I can tell, it's due to this video of Sakurai choosing Gdorf. I don't know what they're saying since it's in Japanese, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hayhkV1zGVA

 

[Deleted member]

I know one thing.

HE IS ENTERTAINER!