Ganondorf

[TCRhade]

I too would like Ganondorf to return, and de-cloned as well. I love him Melee, but it's strange to have him a a clone.

 

[Zekersaurus]

As far as staying true to his Zelda series counterpart is concerned, remember that Ganondorf is pretty much different in most if not all of his appearances. Developers do have a degree freedom in designing him but you can't just up and change Ganondorf completely. It would be a huge slap to the face to people who were fans of him in Melee, which is why he was still a clone in Brawl.

That being said, he had a few moves that weren't very useful or memorable. I would get rid of those and replace them with something better.

 

[Erimir]

As far as staying true to his Zelda series counterpart is concerned, remember that Ganondorf is pretty much different in most if not all of his appearances.

Ummmm... I mean, he's not exactly the same, but did you actually look at those lists of his moves?

He definitely has some pretty big consistencies (excluding the CD-i games which I didn't look into at all):

• In ZERO of his appearances as a boss does he fight exclusively using unarmed melee attacks (not even magic enhanced ones). ZERO. So, it's fair to say his behavior in Smash Bros is highly out of character.

• Projectiles:
  • Dead Man's Volley: He uses this personally in 5/7 of the games in which he's a boss (in LttP, in the guise of Agahnim). In the other two his Phantom uses it and he uses it while controlling Puppet Zelda in TP. Add in Nightmare Agahnim (from Link's Awakening) and Demise and it's 6 out of 9.
  • In 6/7 appearances he personally uses some kind of projectile attack (Wind Waker is the only one in which he doesn't). In Twilight Princess he uses the spectral knights. Add in Nightmare Agahnim/Ganon, Phantom Ganon from Wind Waker and Demise and it's 9 out of 9 that he or his avatar/progenitor uses some kind of projectile attack.
  • So it's fair to say that Ganondorf to be true to his Zelda appearances should use a projectile attack. And the most likely would be one inspired by the Dead Man's Volley.
  • But he also uses lightning, fire and spectral/fire-based creatures, so any of those could be the basis of a special attack.
• Beast form:
  • He has a beast-like form in every game but Wind Waker. He's also a beast in Nintendo Land.
  • Since they had enough time to give him his own Final Smash in Brawl it's no surprise that they added this.
• Teleportation:
  • He uses this personally in 5/7 appearances. In the remaining two, Phantom Ganon uses it. Pretty consistently associated with Ganondorf. Also used by Nightmare Agahnim. So counting everyone it's 8/9.
• Weapons:
  • He uses a weapon personally in 6/7 appearances (only not in Legend of Zelda). Adding the Nightmares and Demise, it's 8/9.
  • He uses a trident personally in 3/7. If you count Nightmare Ganon from Link's Awakening and OoT Phantom Ganon, it bumps up to 5/9.
  • He uses swords personally in 3/7. If you count the Nightmares, Phantoms and Demise, it's 4/9.
  • When he appears as a human, he uses swords 2 out of 3 times (not in OoT, but yes in WW and TP). Demise also uses a sword.
  • When he appears as a beast, he uses a trident 3/6 times and swords in 1/6. Nightmare Ganon also uses a trident.
  • He's also portrayed in Nintendo Land being a beast and using a trident.
  • So it's fair to say he usually uses a weapon in his game appearances, primarily a sword as a human and primarily a trident as a beast. His Phantoms use a sword and a trident. So it would be appropriate for him to have either a sword or a trident.

I think there's quite a bit of consistency. He has a set of abilities that he tends to use, and the abilities he's given in Smash Bros are NOT representative of his character.

Developers do have a degree freedom in designing him but you can't just up and change Ganondorf completely. It would be a huge slap to the face to people who were fans of him in Melee, which is why he was still a clone in Brawl.

Brawl was already a slap in the face to them. I don't think pleasing Ganondorf mains from the iteration that came out 10 years ago should be Sakurai's priority instead of making a Ganondorf that is fun to play and actually represents the character. Is making him actually be Ganondorf instead of Falcondorf is going to upset them more?

Smash Bros isn't just about creating move sets and keeping them the same forever - it's about Nintendo's characters. And Ganondorf in Smash Bros simply is not Ganondorf. He can retain some of his moves (I'd certainly be fine with him retaining his dair), but really he should have some special moves that, you know, Ganon/Ganondorf has actually used.

I'd be all in favor of giving Ganondorf's move- set to Black Shadow or some other appropriate character (appropriate in this case meaning someone who doesn't already have moves). I liked playing as him in Melee, but the fun of Smash Bros is playing as your favorite characters. And Falcondorf isn't a character at all.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Ummmm... I mean, he's not exactly the same, but did you actually look at those lists of his moves?

He definitely has some pretty big consistencies (excluding the CD-i games which I didn't look into at all):

• In ZERO of his appearances as a boss does he fight exclusively using unarmed melee attacks (not even magic enhanced ones). ZERO. So, it's fair to say his behavior in Smash Bros is highly out of character.

• Projectiles:
  • Dead Man's Volley: He uses this personally in 5/7 of the games in which he's a boss (in LttP, in the guise of Agahnim). In the other two his Phantom uses it and he uses it while controlling Puppet Zelda in TP. Add in Nightmare Agahnim (from Link's Awakening) and Demise and it's 6 out of 9.
  • In 6/7 appearances he personally uses some kind of projectile attack (Wind Waker is the only one in which he doesn't). In Twilight Princess he uses the spectral knights. Add in Nightmare Agahnim/Ganon, Phantom Ganon from Wind Waker and Demise and it's 9 out of 9 that he or his avatar/progenitor uses some kind of projectile attack.
  • So it's fair to say that Ganondorf to be true to his Zelda appearances should use a projectile attack. And the most likely would be one inspired by the Dead Man's Volley.
  • But he also uses lightning, fire and spectral/fire-based creatures, so any of those could be the basis of a special attack.
• Beast form:
  • He has a beast-like form in every game but Wind Waker. He's also a beast in Nintendo Land.
  • Since they had enough time to give him his own Final Smash in Brawl it's no surprise that they added this.
• Teleportation:
  • He uses this personally in 5/7 appearances. In the remaining two, Phantom Ganon uses it. Pretty consistently associated with Ganondorf. Also used by Nightmare Agahnim. So counting everyone it's 8/9.
• Weapons:
  • He uses a weapon personally in 6/7 appearances (only not in Legend of Zelda). Adding the Nightmares and Demise, it's 8/9.
  • He uses a trident personally in 3/7. If you count Nightmare Ganon from Link's Awakening and OoT Phantom Ganon, it bumps up to 5/9.
  • He uses swords personally in 3/7. If you count the Nightmares, Phantoms and Demise, it's 4/9.
  • When he appears as a human, he uses swords 2 out of 3 times (not in OoT, but yes in WW and TP). Demise also uses a sword.
  • When he appears as a beast, he uses a trident 3/6 times and swords in 1/6. Nightmare Ganon also uses a trident.
  • He's also portrayed in Nintendo Land being a beast and using a trident.
  • So it's fair to say he usually uses a weapon in his game appearances, primarily a sword as a human and primarily a trident as a beast. His Phantoms use a sword and a trident. So it would be appropriate for him to have either a sword or a trident.

I think there's quite a bit of consistency. He has a set of abilities that he tends to use, and the abilities he's given in Smash Bros are NOT representative of his character.

Brawl was already a slap in the face to them. I don't think pleasing Ganondorf mains from the iteration that came out 10 years ago should be Sakurai's priority instead of making a Ganondorf that is fun to play and actually represents the character. Is making him actually be Ganondorf instead of Falcondorf is going to upset them more?

Smash Bros isn't just about creating move sets and keeping them the same forever - it's about Nintendo's characters. And Ganondorf in Smash Bros simply is not Ganondorf. He can retain some of his moves (I'd certainly be fine with him retaining his dair), but really he should have some special moves that, you know, Ganon/Ganondorf has actually used.

I'd be all in favor of giving Ganondorf's move- set to Black Shadow or some other appropriate character (appropriate in this case meaning someone who doesn't already have moves). I liked playing as him in Melee, but the fun of Smash Bros is playing as your favorite characters. And Falcondorf isn't a character at all.

Nice analysis, dude. I definitely agree about slapping G'dorf's moveset onto some F Zero character, probably Black Shadow.

... Though, and I guess I've said it before, but even though giving him a sword would be most representative of his appearances... I still think pure magic-empowered fists feels more powerful to me. The choke special and his forward air air good examples... damn, sometimes he feels like a strong, evil, unbeatable badass. I would actually be kind of sad to see him be turned into yet another swordsman when his focus should really be magic and pure power.

 

[Erimir]

Yeah, personally, I think his trident moves would be more unique, and I don't really want him to be like an FE character.

What would REALLY be cool is if they gave Ganondorf some tweaks to make him more like his Zelda appearances (something based on Dead Man's Volley, sword-based special) and then also made Demon King Ganon (inspired by his appearance in A Link to the Past, Legend of Zelda and the Oracle games) that uses the trident and has fire bats and lightning and things like that.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Yeah, personally, I think his trident moves would be more unique, and I don't really want him to be like an FE character.

What would REALLY be cool is if they gave Ganondorf some tweaks to make him more like his Zelda appearances (something based on Dead Man's Volley, sword-based special) and then also made Demon King Ganon (inspired by his appearance in A Link to the Past, Legend of Zelda and the Oracle games) that uses the trident and has fire bats and lightning and things like that.

I don't really want Demon King Ganon to be playable... All of the Beast Ganon appearances that used a trident looked more like a rabid moblin than the Dark Gerudo Lord of Evil.

​

"Hey, knock it off! You may not be scared of us, but look out for our boss! He's blue!"​

​

"Stop laughing and fear me, dammit!"​

 

[Erimir]

Sure, but they could take inspiration for his design from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess as well. I was more wanting the specials to be inspired by A Link to the Past than the appearance.

I'm sure they could come up with something cool taking from

Spoiler

I'm thinking the more humanoid design between the one from A Link to the Past/Ocarina of Time + the coloration and patterns and boar-like head from Twilight Princess Beast Ganon.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Sure, but they could take inspiration for his design from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess as well. I was more wanting the specials to be inspired by A Link to the Past than the appearance.

I'm thinking the more humanoid design between the one from A Link to the Past/Ocarina of Time + the coloration and patterns and boar-like head from Twilight Princess Beast Ganon.

Well, I guess as long as they avoid giving him a beer gut and piggy man-boobs...

 

[Kamiko]

I recently had a thought. What if Ganondorf has two movesets that he can use?

Basically, Ganondorf could alter between using just his physical strength, or he could take out his sword, and use that in combination with his physical strength.

Ganondorf's down special would have him taking out his sword, but unlike with in Brawl, he'll actually use the sword in combat. Ganondorf can even put away his sword at will.

While using the sword, Ganondorf's attack range increases, and some of his attacks get changed as well. The sword is also quite heavy, enabling Ganondorf to deliver good damage to his opponents. However, this also affects Ganondorf's attack speed, making him attack slower than when he's not using his sword.

On a side note, Ganondorf would pick up items with his left hand, as he'd use his sword with his right hand.

As for the sword itself...

And then pick up the beam sword for crazy dual-bladed action! Wind Waker stance, of course.

 

[Zekersaurus]

Nice analysis, dude. I definitely agree about slapping G'dorf's moveset onto some F Zero character, probably Black Shadow.

... Though, and I guess I've said it before, but even though giving him a sword would be most representative of his appearances... I still think pure magic-empowered fists feels more powerful to me. The choke special and his forward air air good examples... damn, sometimes he feels like a strong, evil, unbeatable badass. I would actually be kind of sad to see him be turned into yet another swordsman when his focus should really be magic and pure power.

How about this. Give him a sword. Change all of his tilts and smashes in sword attacks except for his Ftilt. Keep that Sparta Kick. His Fsmash should be a stabbing motion as if he were holding a beamsword. Keep his aerial attacks the same except for his Bair. Give him some type of sword attack instead. Make his dash attack a sword attack. Keep his jab the same. Finally, leave his side and down B as the are. Change his Neutral B to Dead Man's Volley. Change his Up B to a teleport with maybe a sword attack or a grab at the end of it.

There you go. You got your swordplay, brute strength, and sorcery. He's now more consistent with his Zelda appearances, while still staying true to his Smash counterpart.

 

[Z1GMA]

If Sakurai wanted to be really nice, he could make a heavy version of Capt. Falcon from an additional F-Zero character.

Exactly

 

[Zekersaurus]

Exactly

Oh snap! Tim curry from Legend!

 

[Hotfeet444]

Ganondorf fans! I've designed my own rendition of Ganondorf for Smash 4!

I hope you like it, Ganondorf deserves to be treated better than he has in the Smash Bros series.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Ganondorf fans! I've designed my own rendition of Ganondorf for Smash 4!

I hope you like it, Ganondorf deserves to be treated better than he has in the Smash Bros series.

I'll admit, I was kind of hoping to see a drawing...

 

[Hotfeet444]

I'll admit, I was kind of hoping to see a drawing...

Well, I don't exactly have many pictures featuring Ganondorf...the only one I can find is this one...

And this one was made well over a year ago.

 

[HarryTheChin]

Be as creative as you want Sakurai (keeping in mind the regular guidelines of not going TOO far)...

Just de-clone Ganon.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Eh hes only a clone in the visual nature of his attacks, Ganon and Falcon have always played vastly differently. Speed and combo vs power and punish.

Also, and this is total ganon main bias, but I hope he doesn't change too much. A sword would be disappointing and unnecessary, considering the amount of sword users we already have.

This. People are so ****ing obsessed over aesthetics that it's disgusting. Giving a sword to Ganondorf would be ridiculous considering that he only utilises sword combat in two of his forms through any Zelda games, EVER. The Dark Lord is most well known for his overwhelming strength, his adept knowledge of dark magic, and his abilities as a shapeshifter (Ganon, Puppet Ganon, Phantoms, etc). If anything should be given to Ganondorf, it's a decent projectile.

Swords are overrated. Though the Dark Lord may be a highly skilled swordsman, it's not a necessary tool.

 

[Kamiko]

Giving a sword to Ganondorf would be ridiculous considering that he only utilises sword combat in two of his forms through any Zelda games, EVER.

Three actually, if you count OoT Ganon, but otherwise, yeah. He's a master of combat, be it with swords, magic, or whatever. As long as it feels like I'm using Ganondorf, and not just someone who looks and sounds like him, then I'll be fine.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganondorf fans! I've designed my own rendition of Ganondorf for Smash 4!

I hope you like it, Ganondorf deserves to be treated better than he has in the Smash Bros series.

I like it.
I do believe his smashes deal way too much damage, though.
But that's okay if they are hard to land (slow, etc...)

And I miss his Dair.

 

[PrincessAzula]

This. People are so ****ing obsessed over aesthetics that it's disgusting. Giving a sword to Ganondorf would be ridiculous considering that he only utilises sword combat in two of his forms through any Zelda games, EVER. The Dark Lord is most well known for his overwhelming strength, his adept knowledge of dark magic, and his abilities as a shapeshifter (Ganon, Puppet Ganon, Phantoms, etc). If anything should be given to Ganondorf, it's a decent projectile.

Swords are overrated. Though the Dark Lord may be a highly skilled swordsman, it's not a necessary tool.

That or he should have his mobility/running speed increased, because, man, it's a pain in the neck to approach anyone.

 

[gantrain05]

doesn't need a sword, needs energy based attacks, maybe a mewtwo-ish teleport combined with maybe an energy blast upon reappearance as a recovery. could give him hovering capabilities as he does in OoT, and that way he could fire blasts at different heights and be able to mix up his ground game a bit better, sort of like peach. he definitely needs to be a wizard type character tho. give warlock puch extremely heavy armor or make it chargable in place so it can be released at anytime, but not retainable like donkey kong?

 

[LaniusShrike]

doesn't need a sword, needs energy based attacks, maybe a mewtwo-ish teleport combined with maybe an energy blast upon reappearance as a recovery. could give him hovering capabilities as he does in OoT, and that way he could fire blasts at different heights and be able to mix up his ground game a bit better, sort of like peach. he definitely needs to be a wizard type character tho. give warlock puch extremely heavy armor or make it chargable in place so it can be released at anytime, but not retainable like donkey kong?

My favorite Up+B idea I've seen is one where he basically goes into free-flying, but hitting B again makes him zoom downward towards the stage to slam the ground and create a shockwave. My proposed Up+B was the same as yours, though. I'd definitely be cool with that.

I think the main consensus is that Warlock Punch should be dropped in favor of his projectiles. I want a charged special like what you're describing, except it releases an energy ball along with a (weaker) punch.

 

[Wyoming]

I wouldn't want his entire moveset to be based around his sword. Maybe make his smashes and u-tilt use the sword but overall I feel like his current specials represent his insane power the Triforce gives him.

Only specials I'd change would be his up-B. Ganondorf needs a decent recovery move. He can teleport in the Zelda games so that would be a decent substitute. Just make it deal damage while he's using it and if someone touches him (as well as some decent range and lots of movement)

 

[Morbi]

I wouldn't want his entire moveset to be based around his sword. Maybe make his smashes and u-tilt use the sword but overall I feel like his current specials represent his insane power the Triforce gives him.

Only specials I'd change would be his up-B. Ganondorf needs a decent recovery move. He can teleport in the Zelda games so that would be a decent substitute. Just make it deal damage while he's using it and if someone touches him (as well as some decent range and lots of movement)

The only problem with that is that Zelda uses a teleport. I don't really think that they would give two Zelda characters a teleport. I honestly think his Toon Form would be cool. He seems more agile and he has swords. He wouldn't even need a decent recovery move if they made him jump like Yoshi.

 

[MoonlapseOpethian]

As a Ganon main, I'll surely miss his moveset if they change it, even though he needs it. They should swap his Ganon Punch with some sort of projectile, Change his recovery to some sort of floaty thing like in OoT, keep his Dark Choke (favorite move of his, because it made up for his poor ass grab rang imo) and his Ganon Kick. Aklter a few moves like his down smash and his back air.

 

[MoonlapseOpethian]

How about this. Give him a sword. Change all of his tilts and smashes in sword attacks except for his Ftilt. Keep that Sparta Kick. His Fsmash should be a stabbing motion as if he were holding a beamsword. Keep his aerial attacks the same except for his Bair. Give him some type of sword attack instead. Make his dash attack a sword attack. Keep his jab the same. Finally, leave his side and down B as the are. Change his Neutral B to Dead Man's Volley. Change his Up B to a teleport with maybe a sword attack or a grab at the end of it.

There you go. You got your swordplay, brute strength, and sorcery. He's now more consistent with his Zelda appearances, while still staying true to his Smash counterpart.

That's damn good. I like it.

 

[Morbi]

As a Ganon main, I'll surely miss his moveset if they change it, even though he needs it. They should swap his Ganon Punch with some sort of projectile, Change his recovery to some sort of floaty thing like in OoT, keep his Dark Choke (favorite move of his, because it made up for his poor *** grab rang imo) and his Ganon Kick. Aklter a few moves like his down smash and his back air.

I used to main him in Melee. I honestly didn't look twice at him in Brawl. It just isn't worth it. He is decent in free for all though. I just think that he is too much like Captain Falcon. I used to main Captain Falcon along with Ganon because it was the same thing. In Brawl they tried to separate the two slightly. I still think more could have been done. If they do change his moveset I am sure they will change his Warlock Punch. I am also pretty sure they will change up his kick. They might keep Dark Choke simply because it was definable. I mean I think he needs a revamp personally. I don't really mind if they change everything about him... or they could make him like Melee again.

 

[Wyoming]

The only problem with that is that Zelda uses a teleport. I don't really think that they would give two Zelda characters a teleport. I honestly think his Toon Form would be cool. He seems more agile and he has swords. He wouldn't even need a decent recovery move if they made him jump like Yoshi.

Well I'd personally prefer if he copied a Zelda character's move than a made-up Smash-exclusive move created for a F-Zero character!

 

[MoonlapseOpethian]

I used to main him in Melee. I honestly didn't look twice at him in Brawl. It just isn't worth it. He is decent in free for all though. I just think that he is too much like Captain Falcon. I used to main Captain Falcon along with Ganon because it was the same thing. In Brawl they tried to separate the two slightly. I still think more could have been done. If they do change his moveset I am sure they will change his Warlock Punch. I am also pretty sure they will change up his kick. They might keep Dark Choke simply because it was definable. I mean I think he needs a revamp personally. I don't really mind if they change everything about him... or they could make him like Melee again.

I mained him in Melee, played with him in Brawl and was utterly disgusted.

Now I'm better with Brawl Ganon than I ever was with any character in any Smash game, though this is due to practice, practice, practice. Ganon is by far my best character.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I honestly think Ganondorf should get his energy ball from Ocarina of Time for his neutral B. Not so sure if it should be tennis playable though. If it was maybe it would get stronger the more it got volleyed.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I like it.
I do believe his smashes deal way too much damage, though.
But that's okay if they are hard to land (slow, etc...)

And I miss his Dair.

I don't see them being too fast, so yeah, it balances himself out. It's mainly to work in decent range so that Ganondorf's extreme playstyle actually works properly. I mean, Ganondorf was always a powerhouse who hit with over 30% damage on some of his attacks, especially in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

I would love a trident, but if it came down to the developers sticking to the clone moveset again here's what I would change:

-His Up-Tilt should be like Captain Falcons, just a tad slower but in return it should impale them into the ground like DK's Side Special.
-Remove his Warlock Punch, replace it with a projectile, the dead mans volley sound really good, but only one in play at a time. Also while the ball is in play, just for this one attack he can press B-Neutral again to swing a sword to volley it back.
-His Up-B shouldn't be punishable, seriously I've lost matches for landing a move, this is sad. This move should have better hitstun and be faster.
-If they aren't going to give him a decent grab range at least give the poor guy decent killing potential with them, akin to ness.
-Something really dumb in brawl...if you do B-Down into a wall Ganondorf will bounce up off of it. When you hit someones shield though, you pretty much give them a bloody free hit/KO. You should've been allowed to bounce off their shield too...
-I also felt that his flame choke should've had super armor frames at the start of the move and during the choke(not just the choke), or at least it shouldn't send ganon into a helpless state.
-Lastly his neutral Arial, and forward Arial are both laggy and should be slightly faster.

 

[Morbi]

I would love a trident, but if it came down to the developers sticking to the clone moveset again here's what I would change:

-His Up-Tilt should be like Captain Falcons, just a tad slower but in return it should impale them into the ground like DK's Side Special.
-Remove his Warlock Punch, replace it with a projectile, the dead mans volley sound really good, but only one in play at a time. Also while the ball is in play, just for this one attack he can swing a sword to volley it back.
-His Up-B shouldn't be punishable, seriously I've lost matches for landing a move, this is sad. This move should have better hitstun and be faster.
-If they aren't going to give him a decent grab range at least give the poor guy decent killing potential with them, akin to ness.
-Something really dumb in brawl...if you do B-Down into a wall Ganondorf will bounce up off of it. When you hit someones shield though, you pretty much give them a bloody free hit/KO. You should've been allowed to bounce off their shield too...
-I also felt that his flame choke should've had super armor frames at the start of the move and during the choke, or at least it shouldn't send ganon into a helpless state.
-Lastly his neutral Arial, and forward Arial are both laggy and should be slightly faster.

A trident for Ganon? If there is anything I learned from Injustice, it is that a trident takes you straight to top tier.

 

[Neanderthal]

This. People are so ****ing obsessed over aesthetics that it's disgusting. Giving a sword to Ganondorf would be ridiculous considering that he only utilises sword combat in two of his forms through any Zelda games, EVER. The Dark Lord is most well known for his overwhelming strength, his adept knowledge of dark magic, and his abilities as a shapeshifter (Ganon, Puppet Ganon, Phantoms, etc). If anything should be given to Ganondorf, it's a decent projectile.

Swords are overrated. Though the Dark Lord may be a highly skilled swordsman, it's not a necessary tool.

It's not about aesthetics. It's about identity. We want the character to actually represent himself.

And actually he has used a sword in 4 of his games in different forms since Demise is widely regarded as a form of G'dorf.
If it's ridiculous that he would use a sword since only using it in four games, then how ridiculous does that make using hand to hand combat since he has used it in a grand total of ZERO games?

Aside from just singling out swords, he has used a weapon in 6/7 of the games that you fight him. And the other 1/7 times that he doesn't use a weapon he just uses magic. Not his feet and fists.
Every time he fights you in close combat he uses a weapon. In no game ever does Ganondorf fight you by kicking and punching you!
So be it a trident or a Sword he must have a weapon. And obviously warlock magic abilities should make up most of his special attacks.

He definitely has some pretty big consistencies (excluding the CD-i games which I didn't look into at all):

• In ZERO of his appearances as a boss does he fight exclusively using unarmed melee attacks (not even magic enhanced ones). ZERO. So, it's fair to say his behavior in Smash Bros is highly out of character.

I think there's quite a bit of consistency. He has a set of abilities that he tends to use, and the abilities he's given in Smash Bros are NOT representative of his character.

Brawl was already a slap in the face to them. I don't think pleasing Ganondorf mains from the iteration that came out 10 years ago should be Sakurai's priority instead of making a Ganondorf that is fun to play and actually represents the character. Is making him actually be Ganondorf instead of Falcondorf is going to upset them more?

Smash Bros isn't just about creating move sets and keeping them the same forever - it's about Nintendo's characters. And Ganondorf in Smash Bros simply is not Ganondorf. He can retain some of his moves (I'd certainly be fine with him retaining his dair), but really he should have some special moves that, you know, Ganon/Ganondorf has actually used.

Great post. Was about to reply with some similar points.
I agree that from a Zelda fan perspective it just doesn't feel like you're playing Ganondorf in SSB.

Sakurai has already stated that he is focusing on changing old characters movesets in SSB4 and we've already seen this with Bowser and Pit. So pleasing past users who are resistant to change is clearly not a big priority this time.

... Though, and I guess I've said it before, but even though giving him a sword would be most representative of his appearances... I still think pure magic-empowered fists feels more powerful to me.

Does making hits with Ganondorfs fists really feel more powerful than Ike's thunderous sword blows?

Not that I want him to play like Ike. Much more reliant on magic hopefully. But having weapon hits as his standard attacks that feel as good as Ike's would be a nice touch.

Oh snap! Tim curry from Legend!

Oh I thought that was Batman.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Does making hits with Ganondorfs fists really feel more powerful than Ike's thunderous sword blows?

Not that I want him to play like Ike. Much more reliant on magic hopefully. But having weapon hits as his standard attacks that feel as good as Ike's would be a nice touch.

Ike's hits are extraordinarily satisfying and he does feel powerful... however, having a bare-fisted haymaker that hits just as hard as the tip of Ike's four-foot long killstick? Yeah, that does feel more powerful to me, yeah.

In the same way that I'd feel pretty badass if someone tried to shoot me and I punched the bullet in its stupid face.

 

[Neanderthal]

Ike's hits are extraordinarily satisfying and he does feel powerful... however, having a bare-fisted haymaker that hits just as hard as the tip of Ike's four-foot long killstick? Yeah, that does feel more powerful to me, yeah.

In the same way that I'd feel pretty badass if someone tried to shoot me and I punched the bullet in its stupid face.

When you put it like that I get it.

 

[Erimir]

To be honest, if you're a Ganondorf main from Melee and you want Ganon to retain the same move set just because of that... I have a simple solution. Play Melee.

I'm excited to see what changes Sakurai makes to the other characters. I have no problem with him making significant alterations to character's moves, assuming he's not doing something stupid like taking away Samus's missiles or turning more moves into FLUDD.

It's a new game. If I wanted everything to stay the same as in Melee, I'd play Melee.

 

[Z1GMA]

Wii Fit Trainer stole Ganon's Dair?
http://i.minus.com/iYCHJ8altmQj8.gif
If she has, maybe we can take it as a hint that Ganon will have a new moveset.
Interesting...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Wii Fit Trainer stole Ganon's Dair?
http://i.minus.com/iYCHJ8altmQj8.gif
If she has, maybe we can take it as a hint that Ganon will have a new moveset.
Interesting...

I'd be pretty sad if he lost it, it's one of the most fun and satisfying moves in the game. It's not like there's too big of a variation in arial moves in the game anyways, Captain Falcon will most likely still keep his his Dair which is similar to Wii Fit Trainer's too. I don't see it as a big deal.

It's a no-brainer that Ganon will get a new moveset though, or at least changed around a bit like he was from Melee to Brawl. Bowser has been changed, no doubt that they'll prioritize changing the clones over a unique character, even if Bowser was shown first.

 

[Deleted member]

Stole Ganon's D-Air?
That's C. Falcon's D-Air in the first place.