Ganondorf Patch 1.1.1 Changes

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Might as well make it since replays are dead and gone.

Changes will be listed as they are confirmed.

Buffs:
Nair: The second kick does 10% sweet spot and 7% sour spot. Sweet spot of first kick of Nair has some form of set knockback to link into the second kick better.


Nerfs:

 

[MGK]

Ganondorf's Nair got buffed. The second kick does 10% sweet spot and 7% sour spot. Also, I think the sweet spot of first kick of Nair has some form of set knockback to link into the second kick better.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Apparently Nair was the only change made to Ganondorf.

A shame there isn't more, but its still nice buff indeed.

 

[WwwWario]

Oh COME ON. Out of everything, NAIR was the only little buff he got? D: What about grab buff? Dark Dive buff? Sigh....

 

[King9999]

Yeah, I thought both hits of nair hit more consistently. So it wasn't just placebo.

Did dash attack always negate projectiles?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Yeah, I thought both hits of nair hit more consistently. So it wasn't just placebo.

Did dash attack always negate projectiles?

Yeah it has.

 

[Shmeckie]

It may not be the buffs we wanted, but this is a pretty nice buff!

Before the buff, landing both hits of n-air got you some pretty great damage from single-digit percentages (21% from a single, fast attack). Not only has the attack been reworked so both hits link properly (it seems like the first hit actually pulls opponents in at lower %s), but the second hit was buffed! So you get both hits much more often for a bigger damage payout! And that second hit isn't the lemon it used to be!

It's not what I wanted, but dammit I'll happily take it!

 

[shadowpixel119]

Ganon has a dthrow combo (20-55%) that can be followed up with nair. It can possibly do 29% (tested with dark pit). Depends on the DI tho.

 

[Shmeckie]

With this buff, n-air seems to be the move to follow d-throw up with, now. Almost 30% for every d-throw.

 

[Z1GMA]

+
Nair OoS just got a lot more effective. Hitting Ganon's shield really hurts now. More than before, as the two hits connect better.

Finally we have a fast attack that does not send the opponent miles away from you.

First hit of Nair > Grab seems easier to land now, and at higher %s.

Combo Breaking with Nair (especially when Close to the ground) will now allow Ganon to gain Footsies-momentum rather than knocking ppl away.

Edgeguarding with Nair is now even more evil than before since the first kick doesn't send ppl at a high, helpful angle anymore, but instead links into the second kick, unless they are at a high %.

Second kick (even the late part) gimps a lot harder now.

Dthrow > BDC Nair is nastier than before.

WKC > Nair is a better option than before, espeically at low %s.
This is nice since Nair sometimes comes out instead of other desired aerials when you're too eager to buffer them.

-
The last, lingering hitbox of Nair's second kick doesn't combo into aerials off stage as well as before.

It's a lot harder to Jab Lock with Nair now.

*Miscellaneous*
The Hit-Sound Effects of Nair are changed.

=
Overall this is a great buff for Ganon.

 

[adom4]

We need to make Pirate ship legal fast lol:

 

[Top Boss]

how much does this help his out of shield game?

 

[Theosmeo]

Does it really link better? I didn't really notice if it did... Even so Nair is already really useful so I approve, scoring a grab when the opponent is between 20% and 55% seems tough, as people stay away from Ganon anyway. Besides, 30% isn't that hard to get, gerudo>dtilt>uair, gerudo>(read roll in front)>gerudo>(read roll behind)>fsmash, nair cancel>wizkick cancel>uair.

Ganon's just too strong for the second hit of Nair getting a <5% damage boost to matter. Besides, doesn't this weaken the potential of killing with Nair, his fastest and most lagless aerial?

 

[adom4]

So apperantly shield stun got increased, how does this affect us?

 

[Theosmeo]

So apperantly shield stun got increased, how does this affect us?

Wait overall? this is probably great honestly, ganon's already amazing at breaking shields so shielding dair (which already does massive shield stun) might be able to lead into gerudo, fsmash could lead into wizkick for some seriously intense pressure, Fair to dash attack to ftilt. How mush stun are we talking though?

This might make the pac-man MU way worse than it is, shielding him is usually a good idea because of his crap grab, but with the stun this might make it harder to read.

 

[kro_]

I'm in love with his new nair, so tasty

 

[King9999]

Increased shield stun should help us by making it harder to punish some of Ganon's moves, especially if they're spaced correctly.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Haven't tested much yet, but the hitstun bonus elevates Ganon's approach potential quite a bit.

 

[King9999]

What I'm interested in testing is to see if there's a way to use the increased stun to cause more shield breaks. Something like a blocked U-smash to instant air Wiz Foot at the stage edge, for example (remember that the player can't be pushed off the stage while they're shielding!).

 

[Z1GMA]

Does it really link better?

yes

doesn't this weaken the potential of killing with Nair, his fastest and most lagless aerial?

only the frist kick is weaker - the second kick is stronger than before. And Ganon already have so many Kill Moves, so making Nair work like this instead gives him more utility.

Also, Uair is 1 frame faster than Nair, so there's your quick, aerial KIll Move.

 

[Swoops]

The shield stun buff will most likely be a mixed bag. We will be a lot safer on stuff, but I get the feeling quite a few characters will be able to abuse the hell out of our shield.

If the calculations going around are correct though, USmash would likely be +2/+3 after shield drop...lol.

Nair seems cool, still not sure I really understand the changes as there are a few of them. The far hitbox was consistently pulling the opponent in though so that was cool. Low percents DThrow > FH UAir > FF NAir > stuff seems cool.

Also, with the shield stun buff I think now is as important a time to say it as any, all Ganon's should use the reverse UAir hitbox way more. I'm super surprised with how many characters it can hit grounded.

 

[adom4]

The shield stun buff will most likely be a mixed bag. We will be a lot safer on stuff, but I get the feeling quite a few characters will be able to abuse the hell out of our shield.

If the calculations going around are correct though, USmash would likely be +2/+3 after shield drop...lol.

Nair seems cool, still not sure I really understand the changes as there are a few of them. The far hitbox was consistently pulling the opponent in though so that was cool. Low percents DThrow > FH UAir > FF NAir > stuff seems cool.

Also, with the shield stun buff I think now is as important a time to say it as any, all Ganon's should use the reverse UAir hitbox way more. I'm super surprised with how many characters it can hit grounded.

I'm kinda worried about the shield stun thing, if it's as big as it seems it can really screw us over, for now it's best to wait & see how it'll affect the metagame.

 

[Swoops]

adom4

Yea that's what I was thinking lol. It's easy to apply generalities to this change and say "everything will be safer!" or "we're going to get wrecked in shield!" but in reality a lot of variables will come into play with a change like this.

I mean I am nervous, but excited nervous lol. Could be sh*tty could be cool.

 

[_Magus_]

Ganon's new NAir reminds me more of falcon's NAir in this game. The first hit of falcon's pulls the opponent in and links to the second, but if you ff the first hit to cancel the second, it's essentially a guaranteed grab.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Oh God I can already imagine the Yoshi dair spam

 

[_Magus_]

Oh God I can already imagine the Yoshi dair spam

As if it wasn't annoying enough to deal with pre patch...

 

[Daeyrat]

Only the last hit of the dair matters anyway. Not a huge deal.

 

[Swoops]

So the more I think about it, I think it'll be an overall nerf for ganondorf.

Pre-patch, he could be pretty safe with precise spacing. BAir, NAir, FAir etc. Now it seems like he will extra safe, but it will require similar precise spacing.

Meanwhile with his limited mobility and mediocre defensive options in neutral, along with everybody else's buffed shield pressure, I feel like he's going to get trashed if an opponent gets in on him. I guess time will tell :/

 

[Illusions4]

There was also a global change which I think helps ganon. They also increased the amount of shield stun that a character takes, hence why they nerfed the falchions shield breakers. It would be worth to test if fair and dair are safe on shield

 

[A2ZOMG]

So the more I think about it, I think it'll be an overall nerf for ganondorf.

Pre-patch, he could be pretty safe with precise spacing. BAir, NAir, FAir etc. Now it seems like he will extra safe, but it will require similar precise spacing.

Meanwhile with his limited mobility and mediocre defensive options in neutral, along with everybody else's buffed shield pressure, I feel like he's going to get trashed if an opponent gets in on him. I guess time will tell :/

And now we actually suck against camping. That legitimately upsets me.

I thought things were going in the right direction when they nerfed the frames on Luigi's fireball...

 

[HeavyLobster]

And now we actually suck against camping. That legitimately upsets me.

I thought things were going in the right direction when they nerfed the frames on Luigi's fireball...

We did have issues with Greninja and Sheik before, but otherwise could mostly deal with camping. Now they might legit 80-20 us. Why? Why do this now? My head hurts.

 

[Vermanubis]

The changes aren't yet "palpable" to me, but if things're as bad as everyone fears, I just wonder why in the hell they didn't just weaken shields. That's a decision consistent with any given character's MO, i.e. Ganon deals more damage to shields but has less opportunity to pressure shields, Mario deals less, but has more opportunities, but ultimately shields becom less advantageous; ostensibly a healthy thing for the game, since by all appearances, shields are just too strong. Increasing shieldstun doesn't solve any problems with shielding, it just unevenly distributes itself to those who're inherently good at pressuring shields (I saw @jmanup85 post a vine somewhere of a Falco getting trapped in a Lucario aura vortex)

 

[Blobface]

F-air, B-air, and U-smash should probably be used more often now. The two former are now slightly more safe and the latter is now positive on shield drop (lolwut).

And Wizkick is a serious threat to shields now. The increased stun means it is guaranteed to link into quake for about 40+ shield damage (the shield degenerates in between hits it seems). It's a near guaranteed shieldbreak from about, Idunno, 40-45hp, but lower than that Quake will shieldpoke instead. Makes me wish Quake had a more vertical hitbox. Having an F16 45 shield damage aerial would be god tier.

I'm honestly considering figuring out the amount of time needed for a shield to regenerate into that range after being hit by B-air, F-air, and U-smash, since that could legitimately set us up for Shield Breaks.

But overall, it's hard to tell where Ganon lies in this patch. We'll have to see how it impacts other characters first.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I heard Yoshi Dair got mentioned:

Yo @VGBC_Aposl @SkyWilliams you can't let go of shield during Yoshi ' s down air now. It's either be poked or break pic.twitter.com/F6AknlLCXD

— GimR (@VGBC_GimR) September 30, 2015

 

[_Magus_]

Does this patch feel clunky to anyone else? Idk what it is, but the game just doesn't feel as responsive as it used to with any char I play.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

 

[Didier337]

Overall I think this will benefit Juggernauts(Ganon,DK,DDD,Bowser,Charizard) the most since more of their moves become safer and break shields much easier.Besides Ganon can KO most the cast with a reverse warlock punch at 25%,I'll take it

 

[Vermanubis]

I don't like the jank I'm seeing with these inescapable looping hitboxes like with Lucario's aura sphere, Yoshi's DAir, etc.

 

[Didier337]

I don't like the jank I'm seeing with these inescapable looping hitboxes like with Lucario's aura sphere, Yoshi's DAir, etc.

That is a problem.Until we find easier ways of dealing with them,looks like lucario and yoshi are heading up tiers.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

That is a problem.Until we find easier ways of dealing with them,looks like lucario and yoshi are heading up tiers.

Shield DI tho?